moving the kitchen? need some layout advice
Hi Everyone, I need your help. We've decided to do some remodeling to help the flow of our home. Originally our plan was to put on a small addition with a half bath and mud room, but in an effort to help us think outside of the box, we hired a designer who specializes in redesigning your home to make it more useful. The design was different and intriguing, instead of adding a bath and mudroom, we instead move the rooms around, kitchen becomes a half bath/mudroom/laundry, dining room becomes a central kitchen, and we add a dining room as an addition. On paper it seemed like a great plan, but once I broke out the tape measure I started to realize that things weren't making sense. I'm reaching out to you all, to see if this plan can be organized in a better way, or if we should just drop the idea.
I'm attaching the designs given to us, this shows the whole first floor:
As I said, these plans did not include measurements, and as I started graphing it out, I realized the layout of the new kitchen just wasn't adding up. Here is a recreation of the 'After' design to scale. Each square = 1 foot
Lets talk about what I love about this change.
1. having the Kitchen as the center of the house seems great. We have a toddler who is always getting into things in the living room while we are working in the kitchen
2. large island for work space and entertaining. A second work space that overlooks the living room
3. I think adding a dining room without plumbing would be cheaper than adding a half bath, but maybe I'm wrong. moving the plumbing to the new kitchen shouldn't be bad because the basement underneath is unfinished and close to the main stack.
Things I don't like:
1. Stove in the corner. It seems like it takes up way too much space there, but I can't imagine how else to do it, thats where you come in.
2. no wall space for cabinets
3. Removing the extended double windows in the middle of the room. Look at the before pic, and you see that we have 2 windows that jut out a foot from the house, but the after photo removes the extension, and makes it 1 window. seems unnecessary to remove it.
Oh and finally, theres the question of whether we should do this at all. our home is a 100 year old foursquare, and I wonder if changing the design hurts the history of it. Theres nothing remarkable or historical about our house that makes it stand out from the dozens of other old homes in our neighborhood, but I think about resale someday, and people looking for older homes, have an expectation that the original layout is intact. Maybe I'm just overthinking it, a home is meant to be lived in right??
Comments (23)
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To begin and to understand the rest of the design information, Kitchen work studies have shown the following breakdown of time/work in the kitchen: 70% or more of your time and work in the kitchen is spent prepping - preparing a meal or snack 20% or less is spent cleaning up - and that includes not just sink work (hand washing a few items), but also non-sink work such as loading the DW (if you don't pre-rinse your dishes), unloading the DW, clearing the counters & table, wiping down the counters & table, and sweeping up at the end of the day. 10% is spent cooking - stirring, adding ingredients, actually watching food cook Based on the above, it makes the most sense to have the Prep Zone in the best spot - whether for the view or for visiting, whichever you prefer. Work Zones... There are three primary work zones: Prep Zone -- This is the zone where food prep takes place. Food prep can be anything from making a sandwich to preparing a multi-course meal. It includes cleaning/rinsing food, cutting, mixing, processing, etc. For many people, especially those with small kitchens, their Prep Zone is also their Baking Center for rolling out dough, etc. 70% or more of the work and time spent in the kitchen is spent prepping. It's the most often used zone in your kitchen – and you spend the most time in this zone. (That's why it makes the most sense to put the Prep Zone in the most pleasant spot in your kitchen.) Cooking Zone -- This is the zone where you take the food you've already prepped and apply heat...cooktop, oven, MW. Only 10% of the work and time spent in the kitchen is spent actually cooking – including stirring, adding ingredients, and watching food cook. This is the least used Zone, relatively speaking. Think about it, you usually don't spend the entire time standing in front of your oven or cooktop watching food cook. Sure, there are some things that do have to be stirred constantly, but most things do not. Even if they do, you usually still spend more time prepping before you begin cooking. Cleanup Zone -- This is the zone where the dirty dishes and general cleanup are handled! Clearing the table, wiping down counters, loading the DW, unloading the DW, etc. 20% or less of the work and time spent in the kitchen is spent cleaning up. OK, now we know what the primary zones are. So, how do we design a kitchen keeping them in mind? . Prep Zone -- works best when it contains a water source and is next to or across an aisle no more than 48" wide or so from the range/cooktop and Cooking Zone. Trash & recycle bins should also be in the Prep Zone since far more recycling and trash are generated while prepping and cooking than while cleaning up. This zone should contain at least 36" of clear workspace, 42" is much better. Cooking Zone -- works best when next to/across from the Prep Zone (see Prep Zone). It's also nice to have a water source nearby as well as trash & recycling nearby. 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AnnKH
8 years ago
funkycamper
8 years agoI agree with everything Buehl said.
I cringe looking at the tightness of those aisles around the island. 42" work zone aisles are the minimum recommended for one-person kitchens, 48" is the minimum for multiple-people kitchens. Note that those are minimums. You were given 36". Yikes! And here is a diagram noting clearances required behind seating. Your seating aisle width is the Slide Past. Do you really want that in a high traffic area? No way. And then imagine people are sitting there and you need to access the pantry. It just doesn't work. The only way you can even begin to make that island work is to remove your pantries. That's a lot of valuable storage to lose.
The Thirty-One Kitchen Design Rules, Illustrated | Homeowner Guide | Design/Buil · More InfoI appreciate the attempt to give you a great family entry mudroom but I have a feeling your home is just going to be too small for all of that. Where is your current laundry located? Many of us believe the laundry should be upstairs by the bedrooms where most laundry is generated. No more lugging clothes baskets up/down the stairs. I had that in my last home and I loved it. Wish I had done it years sooner when the kids were younger. Would you mind sharing your upstairs floorplan? Maybe we can help you identify a location up there for laundry. That would free up some downstair's space for the other things you want.
Buehl
8 years agofunkycamper
8 years agoOh, I couldn't resist a few tweaks. This is rather down-and-dirty meaning, I didn't check measurements and the kitchen could definitely still use some tweaking. Just to give you some ideas of what works better in your footprint, imho but still, hopefully, gives you what you want and need.
Mudroom/Family Entry: One wall of closets, not two. The pink L is where you could put laundry if you really can't or won't move it upstairs. However, you won't have a laundry sink. I've never had one and haven't missed it. Sure, it can be handy but a small tub filled at nearby bathroom or kitchen sinks suffice for most of us. The thin purple rectangle represents a wall-mount command center. You could hang calendar, bulletin board for schedules, black or white board(s) for messages, those wall pockets for papers (school/mail/invitations/etc.), and narrow shelves for a charging station.
Pantries: I moved them over to where the other mudroom storage was located which widens up your kitchen tremendously. I would do sliding doors on the pantries so you don't add to potential congestion with doors that open out. Even bi-folds take up space. Sliders (think the doors usually used on bedroom closets) come in many styles and you should easily be able to find something that will coordinate with your kitchen cabinets. I had a friend that did a built-in pantry which means sheetrocked, not kitchen cabinetry and it was great! Much cheaper and better storage. You can customize the interior however you want.
Coffee Bar: I removed it. I don't think you have room for it. You can put it in the pantry.
You may not have this much depth but your pantry could loo something like this. Of course, sliders means only half could be open at a time but, still, that should give you generous access. You could put your coffee bar in here. If it was me, I'd make one side of the pantry an attractive beverage center and the other side more for storage that doesn't have to look nice. You could put a divider down the middle, at the center where the sliders meet, so friends don't see the messy side.
Custom pantry · More Info
Dining Area: Moving that pantry wall over and removing the coffee bar gives you more spacious dining that should make entertaining more enjoyable and give better clearances for walking around your table.Kitchen: As I said above, the kitchen works but it's probably not the best configuration. If you like the general idea of this layout, then more kitchen design work is in order. But this might be a start. I gave you a prep sink so you have separate prep/cook and clean-up zones. The D on the island is where I would put the drawers to store every day dishes and eating utensils. So most items are quick and easy to put away. Ranges/hoods in front of windows look awesome, imho. If you don't like the idea or if your jurisdiction is one that doesn't allow it, then more work needs to happen to this design to make it work.
Oh, darn, I thought I saved some better examples. They are out there. I just don't have time to search more out. But, gosh, wouldn't you love to cook and enjoy that view?
Hartman Residence, Galveston · More Infoemilyam819
8 years agorrschmitz
8 years agorrschmitz
8 years agoHi everyone, I'm back. After exactly 1 month of thinking about some ideas, giving up, then figuring out some new ideas, I was pretty happy to come up with a new plan that I think achieves what I'm going for, but I would like to hear your opinions and see if you have some better layout suggestions. For instance, I would like to allow 2 people working in the kitchen at the same time, but it seems like if 1 person was in that nook of the peninsula, thats really the only workspace.
The key to this new plan is making the dining room wider (note this is the absolute max I can make the dining room, and will require a large electrical expense since it will require moving the meter around the corner). Then using an angled penninsula and pantry to maximize usage. The beauty of this plan is there will be very few changes to existing walls. Please let me know what you think. I apologize for my poor drawing ability and smudge marks, even with a ruler and grid, I can't make a straight line. Squares are 1'x1'. Thanks!
emilyam819
8 years agofunkycamper
8 years agoI would make it a U instead of a G. In your G, if someone is using the DW, people are blocked from entering/leaving the kitchen. The small peninsula just creates too much congestion.
I like Emily's suggestion. I think when the living room flows into the dining room, it makes it nicer for entertaining instead of having the kitchen in-between which means people have to walk through your kitchen to get there and people seated at the DR table can't speak with anybody in the frontroom.
Although, in looking at it here, I would move the sink and DW down more onto the peninsula so there is more clearance between clean-up sink and range.
rrschmitz
8 years agoemilyam819
8 years ago
funkycamper
8 years ago
sheloveslayouts
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoFood for thought... I started with the possibility of changing the location of the top few basement stairs and moving the side door to the back of the house in an effort to remove traffic through your existing kitchen location. Also, I think the sight line from the front door to the existing dining room and thru the windows much lovlier than a kitchen in full view of the front door (which is a pet peeve of mine.) I just cut and paste and guessed dimensions. ETA: Please note that I'd put a full wall of hooks or coat closets across from the powder and pantry. My drawing doesn't reflect that.
rrschmitz
8 years agofunkycamper
8 years agorrschmitz
8 years agoJillius
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoWell, I don't know that this works perfectly, but it gets at least somewhat of everything you want. Perhaps that is enough?
The family entrance to the home is in the side. Enter there, and you'll pass the 5' x 5' half bath (with a window!) and a closet and hooks on the back of the pantry and/or on the long stairwell wall.
Not the most elaborate mudroom or half bath ever, but it's more than you have now. If you would like to trade traffic flow for a bigger closet, you could always close off the entrance to dining/kitchen areas from the mudroom. (If you're carrying groceries, you'd probably enter the house through the deck doors anyway.) Like this:
In addition to the half bath and mudroom, this plan also gains you a big kitchen with an island that is not a corridor kitchen. Moreover, though you cannot see the entire living room from the island, you can see the entire dining room and about half of the living room:Note that, though the living room does not change in size, it has a new traffic pattern running into it from the new hallway. This will shift any natural living room furniture layouts to the right. Does that leave you enough room for a decent furniture layout?
cpartist
8 years agorrschmitz
8 years agosheloveslayouts
8 years ago
Buehl