Are you implying the lid is buried?

Somewhere. Even when the septic man came in 2006, it was buried. Somehow he knew where to find it, emptied it (I guess) and the yard was undamaged. Other than the ruts his tires made, that is. I remember him poking some metal stick into the ground.

Isn't that normal? Buried?

Nope not normal. But surprisingly common.

http://inspectapedia.com/septic/Septic_Tank_Find.php

http://inspectapedia.com/septic/Septic_Tank_Safety.php

I purchased a 1/4" rod from Lowes, found my sewer cleanout, started poking the ground until I found it. Most likely it is only a few inches to a foot down. I live in Florida so we have a lot of sand which makes it very easy.

I do have a rough idea of where it is. Or at least the clean-out is. My ex-DH dug it out once for some unknown reasons, then left this 3' hole in the back yard for 6 years. I am more concerned about finding the edges.

My plan is to have it cleaned out before I put this deck on. I want to know where the edges are, so I can avoid building over it.

Vith, that was a bunch of interesting articles. Strikes fear in the heart....

Yea all the bad things they discuss pretty much only happen during catastrophic failure of the system. Or if some idiot doesn't put the lid back on and someone falls in...

Check with your local environmental health or building department because building over a septic tank may be illegal.

Keep in mind that along with routine maintenance at some point the septic tank may need to be replaced.

Hmm...

Like a bush hog digging trenches where you now think the drain field might be?
Or the weight of said bush hog on top of said drain field?

I'm feeling lucky that I don't have any trouble (knocking on wooden head) with my plumbing or septic. I do live alone, though, with a septic system probably big enough for the original owner's 4 person family. I also do dishes about 1ce a month, laundry 1 load a week.

Justalurker, you have an amazingly keen sense of the obvious. Thank you.

Around here the town health department keeps an "as built" drawing of septic systems on file. You might ask your building or health department. You are probably going to need the drawing to get a building permit in any event, it's a pain if it needs to be recreated.

I'll call.

I'm certain, based upon the work done by "the family" before we bought, there's nothing on file. There's nothing permitted. Even the addition in which I sit while I'm typing! Arrrghh!

I did just leave a message with the septic company that took care of things here before us. We had this pumped out when we bought in 2002, then in 2006 when we started rebuilding from a fire. Hopefully they'll be able to shed some light on this. I remember the fellow poking around in the ground.

C.

CEFreeman_GW,

Not so obvious to some. I know three people in my immediate area who built or had a contractor (don't know if permitted or not) build decks and a patio directly over the septic tank. Two of the tanks failed in their 80's installation and had to be replaced. The septic company was required to permit the new tank installation and
the code people made both homeowners completely remove the code
violating structures.covering the septic tank. The additional cost of demolishing the deck and patio was not welcome by either homeowner.

To find the tank look for the black water line from the house. It should have two 4" clean-outs in a row. These are not the access port(s) on the septic tank. That line goes from the house to the septic tank. Many septic installations buried the tank access ports (some tanks have one and some have two) and some installed risers visible at the surface to access the tank for pumping. Around here risers on the tank access and a filter on the tank outlet to the leach field have been code since 2000.

Well, I guess you just can't fix stupid.
That's as dumb as building over your well.

I have none of those access things nor black pipes, ports, risers, nada.

I don't think the original owner did anything well. I do think the septic was 20 feet or so from the house at one point, until he built an addition. What I remember of the fellow poking the ground, was that he was pretty close to the house.

Still looking for a return call from the septic people.

CEFreeman... welcome to my world. My buried septic tank was pumped numerous times over the 30 years I've owned the house. You'd think the septic company would have kept a record of its location. Instead, they'd poke around with a metal rod to locate it, then use a backhoe to remove the topsoil and access the opening, which was quite deep in the ground. I finally had them install a riser and clean-out lid at grade. I imagine the only way to locate the edges of your tank would be to poke around or dig it up if there's nothing on file in your town. .

I'm thinking you're right, beaniebakes. Come to think of it, the septic company hasn't called me back. Well, if they hadn't been here before, I'd give my poop to someone else. {she said, in a huff.}

Other than ground penetrating radar or satellite imagery, I can't think of any other way, (I actually saw the results of an archaeological investigation using the former, no digging required, it was quite amazing, but I doubt you want to hire an archaeologist!)

Lord Calvert could be buried there. After all, I am in Maryland.

Local joke. Ever couple years someone comes across an old grave and they're all excited about finding Lord Calvert. Once of the founders of Maryland. Should say "land owners" but here he's a "founder."

Our health department specifies where and what size the septic system will be, then before approving our septic install they walked the entire thing from the house mapping it out on GPS. If your lid is hidden, they should have all the info you need.

Frankly, I highly doubt in 1976 they were walking the property. "
I also don't think there's going to be a record of this addition on the back, which takes the house 10' or more closer to where the tank probably is.

Good thought, though.

Last resort- water dowsing. Make two L shaped pieces from metal coat hangers..if you hold them right they will cross when they are over water. Seems like voodoo but I have used it to find a septic finger so I know it works.

I've actually seen a well detected like that. Fascinating. The person doing it used linden branches. Whatever a linden is! :)

I appreciate the thought, because it hadn't occurred to me.

Oh, don't be silly. Anecdotal "evidence" notwithstanding, dowsing has never been shown to be any better than chance. By all means, wave all the Y-shaped branches or L-shaped metal rods you want and leave it entirely to chance. Or just pick the spot where you already think the tank is located based on an educated guess and be a little more accurate. Or have the tank located by a professional and know for certain. Or place the deck wherever you want and hope. Seriously though, if you can't afford the tank location services now, how do you expect to afford to potentially move the deck later if you guess wrong?

An experienced septic professional (that might not be the driver of the pumping truck) should be able to locate your tank in short order. They are familiar with the installation variables in your area and understand the design and requirements back when the field was installed.

Based on the description of unpermitted ad ons to the house there is a possibility that the person responsible for those installed the septic system of his/her own design. If that is the case then you need to deal with it now and not when there's a septic problem

Regardless, the tank and field must be located and if there are no clean outs in the line from the house to the tank they should be added... cause you will need them sooner or later.

Thank you for reviewing the options discussed, AliceinWonderland.

As for moving the deck, that was never an option. However, stopping the deck before the tank, and/or putting the steps on cleats is.

As I mentioned, justalurker, the septic guy who has come here twice seems to know just where to poke the ground to clean out the tank. And that was in the yard, in the grass. That is why I have left them two messages. Whether he's a 'septic professional' or not, remains to be seen. Family business, so at least I know he was raised dealing with ... dare I? a lot of crap.

Now, from the house to the tank is information I didn't have. I thought that was a pipe, but you're saying there should be a clean out in that distance? Would they have installed that in the crawl space? I can't imagine.

Who knew this would be so touchy?

Yeah, there SHOULD be a clean out. Shoulda woulda. We had a Previous Owner plant a tree right next to the tank and bury the clean out stub. So I'm in touch with PO idiocy. The tree got cut down and the clean out located, but it took a lot of probing with a rebar in the general area where it should have been. It's actually too close to the house from what code required. *shrug*. PO DIY strikes again.

Just saying that I think that a lot of rebar probing is in your future. Or, hire a plumber with a camera that can travel through the house drain closest to the tank and trace the route. You may learn things that you might not want to know if you go that route. But, eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge can at least prepare you for the future.

I think I'm going to start with the septic company that's been coming here since at least the 80s, and their rebar probing. Start simple.

This is what the cleanouts in the line from the house to the septic tank look like or similar.

Sometimes it is only one. For quite a while code has been two like the picture and usually near the house perimeter. In your case they may be buried under the addition.The ones in the picture are PVC but can be black ABS.These are for when the line to the septic tank clogs and you need to snake to the tank and back to the house.

These are not the manhole cover access to the septic tank.

Huh.
Ain't nebber seen nuttin' like dat.

Aren't the 70s before PVC? I guess I'll have to stick my head in the crawl space and see what's there.

I appreciate the graphic!

Don't spend too much time looking. Your house is like mine. I just had all the drains redone, replacing pipes so a 2 inch didn't flow into a 1.5 inch, changing the pitch from uphill to down (yeah, believe or not), adding traps and a clean-out that never existed (discovered when the line needed to be snaked). My 1890 house (a converted schoolhouse) is over a crawl space that is mostly inaccessible. Fortunately, a friend of mine is an experienced GC who, with help from his brother, a licensed plumber, was willing to crawl in the funky space and make needed repairs. Some of the posters on this board don't realize that many rural communities didn't enforce buildings codes as recently as the 1980s. Even today, a lot of slack is given to owners of old buildings that can't comply with current codes. Please keep us posted on the results of your search.

You can take help of a licensed professional to locate your septic tank.

This is a definite shot, but sometimes a careful look of your lot on Google Maps will give you a hint of things buried in your lawn. I'm a recreational grave hunter, and have found many a grave that I couldn't see from just walking the turf by looking down via satellite. (I think the Lord Calvert joke sent me off on this weird tangent . . .) In any case, it's free to try . . .

>>Lord Calvert...

They find him occasionally 'round here. Every time they find an old, unmarked grave, they get all happy. Bring out the oxygen testing equipment, etc. So far, his remains remain elusive. LOL!

I'll take a look. I know where it is, just not where the edges of it are. My DH dug a hole revealing it and its top, but just a 3' wide hole.

I can't figure out how we've had it cleaned out twice, without any digging in the lawn, etc.

Interesting idea, though. I'll head over to Google! Thanks.

LOL. I meant definite LONG shot. But you may see a sublet rectangle where the soil looks compressed or the turf is not quite as green. My mother's turns faintly less green in summer -- too shallowly buried, I guess -- and the drain field looks -- yep, greener! But so subtle you don't really see that just walking over the turf. Good luck!

I checked last night. The last time I looked, the photos were 5 years old. This time, they're from about a year ago!

I do see a lighter green circle, where I know the tank is. It's round, though, so I'm thinking that's the new Bermuda grass growing over where we filled in that hole. I think I'm closer, though!

Embarrassing how much construction crap you can see in my yard from a satellite.