No salt fertilizers: alfalfa, almond, corn, molasses, Brewer's yeast
strawchicago z5
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
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strawchicago z5
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoRelated Discussions
Anti-fungal nutrients for roses
Comments (140)Hi Sharon: You benefit me & others with your intelligent questions, which enable me to see what I did wrong with my past experiments. How did I cause rust by throwing POWDER GYPSUM on top? I repost the info: There's a U. of Nebraska research on rust, with the title, "Medium pH and Leaf Nutrient Concentration Influence Rust Pustule diameter on leaves of dry beans." Their conclusion: Plants grown in pH 5.8 medium show significantly larger rust pustules than plants grown in pH 6.5 or pH 7.9. Concentrations of Cl (chloride) and Mn (manganese) were more in high rust. In contrast, concentration of K (potassium) were less in high rust." From Straw: Alabama Agriculture Cotton Research also recommended potassium fertilizer to reduce rust. Info. about gypsum from USAgypsum.com: Elemental Calcium......21.0% Elemental Sulfur (S)....17.0% pH...................................6.8 Kelp4Less sells 5 lbs. of GRANULAR GYPSUM at 18% sulfur for $12.50 .... more than my local feed store, or Menards at $4.49 for 25 lb. bag. There's a quarry nearby that manufactures gypsum, so cheap here in my Chicagoland. I WOULD NOT use Pennington gypsum plus lawn fertilizer, if it's chemical nitrogen (high in salt). What I did wrong was to throw 1 cup of POWDER-gypsum on top ... it's acidic, plus fast release of calcium, which drove down potassium, necessary for rust-prevention. Previous times with 1/8 cup of GRANULAR gypsum, along with sulfate of potash ... no problems whatsoever. I would use even less GRANULAR gypsum, like 1 teaspoon, along with 1 teaspoon sulfate of potash, plus 0.2 cup of Milorganite. The best ratio for veggies is 1 part nitrogen, 1 part potassium, and 1/2 part calcium. Roses have a higher need for calcium, so I use equal amount to potassium. Sulfate of potash NPK is 0-0-50, and Milorganite NPK is 5-2-0. Take 50 divide by 5, you'll get 10. Ten teaspoons of Milorganite is equivalent to 0.2 cup, best with 1 teas. of sulfate of potash, and 1 teas. of gypsum. I would use more sulfate of potash & gypsum with pale own-root like Jude which needs more potassium for blooming, plus more sulfur for leaves to be darker-green. PALE own-root like Duchess de Rohan, W.S. 2000, Jude, Eglantyne, Honey Bouquet, Comte de Chambord can take more gypsum at 17% sulfur, and more sulfate of potash at 23% sulfur. DARK green roses grafted on Dr. Huey, and French roses dislike acidic sulfates. Bone meal has high sulfate at 2000 ppm, and 400 iron & 300 sodium, with the dark-green roses break out in diseases. I put too much bone meal in Gruss an Teplitz hole ... he's the parent of Dr. Huey, it became a BS-fest, and I had to fix the hole. Pennington fish pellets NPK 4-6-6, high phosphorus with fish bone meal. The pale & lighter-green roses LOVE that tea, today tiny Jude broke out in 2nd flush, 3 more buds with that tea, very fast repeat. Austin roses, bred in an acidic & high rain England like that ratio ... The ratio in David Austin Rose food has NPK 9.5 - 7.5 -10 ... a bit higher nitrogen due to high-rain England, which leaches out nitrogen. Acidic sulfates help pale-own-root to bloom better, but sulfates also burns if in direct-contact with roots, best as SOLUBLE. Pennington pellets is best as SOLUBLE tea under hot sun, to spoon-feed wimpy own-roots which can't acid-phosphatase as band-size. Bone meal is OK for pale own-root the planting hole, if mixed-thoroughly and buffered by plenty of soil. Bone meal burns if applied on top. Concentrated amount of sulfates near the stem burn. One person killed his tomato plant by topping with Jobe's Organic tomato fertilizer NPK 2-7-4, high in bone meal. When I mixed that stuff THOROUGHLY in the planting hole, I got bumper-crop tomato. Same with gypsum, at 17% sulfur, and sulfate of potash, at 23% sulfur. Both burns my finger, and burns any root, best used as soluble. If I sprinkle some on top, I flood the basin immediately with water, to dilute that, along with milorganite for nitrogen. Tomato Tone has NPK 3-4-6, neutral pH & less phosphorus ... it didn't burn my tomato plant, so that can be applied at 1/4 cup before a rain. It's finer particle & tend to float, best to let rain work that in. Milorganite is best 0.2 cup with 1 teas. sulfate of potash and 1 teas. of granular gypsum .... spread that on top before a rain, if you are lazy like me. Safe approach would be Milorganite on top, then make soluble out of potassium & calcium per gallon of water. Roses are all different from each other, the pale ones require more sulfates, potassium, and phosphorus via SOLUBLE to bloom. The darker-green leaves like Dr. Huey can secret acids to utilize nutrients from soil, thus breaking out in diseases when too much acid is supplied, like rain-water (pH 5.6 in East coast), or sulfates in bone meal, gypsum, and sulfate of potash .. which are components of Pennington Pellets. Sharon, best wishes with your roses. They all are different from each other ... such as pale Graham Thomas which required an ungodly amount of potassium & phosphorus as soluble to bloom for a Texan. It took me 3 years, and countless failed experiments to learn the above. This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 11:19...See MoreEffects of fertilizers on bloom color and health of plants
Comments (32)ziyouzizai: Sorry for the belated response, have been busy killing japanese beetles and cutting blooms for the vase. It was in 2014 that I tested Milogranite in pots, and the flowering WAS NOT as good as MG-soluble for roses NPK 20-20-20. Milogranite practically has zero potassium. Fantastic idea to soak red-lava-rocks in ACIDIC rain water, I tested it for the past 3 years and that works really well. Since pH of red-lava-rock is high at 8.2, one needs an acidic agent, like rain-water at pH 4.5. If rain-water is not available, I put gypsum (19% sulfur) and vinegar in a bottle with red-lava-rock, along with my pH 9.1 tap-water (very alkaline). That's cheaper than buying sulfate of potash NPK 0-0-50, works well, but doesn't have the iron & trace elements like red-lava-rock. Also if your roses are grafted on Dr.Huey, they flower tons in the 1st year, but will be stingy in the following years, UNLESS THEY GROW THEIR OWN ROOT. But even if they grow their own root (on top of Dr.Huey), they can't bloom as well as the ones bought as own-roots....See MoreWhy alfalfa tea works better than alfalfa?
Comments (10)After researching, I find that alfalfa meal decomposes fast and gives off quick heat, more so than alfalfa pellets. I cooked a geranium to death by planting in a clay mixed with alfalfa meal. I did the same with 2 rhododendrons in hot and dry summer. Years ago we detached our lawn in late fall and stored bags of grass clippings in the garage .. the entire garage was heat up, despite 40 degrees outside. NPK of alfalfa pellets is 2-1-2 ($17.99 for 50 lbs. bag), NPK of soy bean meal is 7-2-1 ($20 for 50 lbs. bag), and NPK of crack corn is 1.65 / 0.65 / 0.4 ($2.69 for 10 lbs. bag) at feed store. NPK of alfalfa hay is 2.45 - 0.5 - 2.1, sold for $8 per bale at the feed store. Corn is alkaline, has anti-fungal property. Soybean meal is also alkaline. Alfalfa meal is slightly acidic and naturally high in sugar, great for fungal germination. See below discussion "Afalfa Meal Heating Up Soil" in Organic Gardening Forum: â¢Posted by mprevost 7 (My Page) on Sun, Jan 13, 08 Throughout that time I've used only bagged composted chicken manure, alfalfa meal, soybean meal, and various mulches (leaves, grass clippings) to fertilize my soil. I have not seen this heating up occur without significant concentrations of alfalfa meal. Without a lot of alfalfa meal, it does not heat up. But if you put a lot of alfalfa meal under mulch or in a hole, it gets REAL hot in a couple of days. Like as hot as a very hot compost pile. 150 deg F or so. " **** From Straw: I haven't tested soy bean meal, so I won't recommend that. I tested cracked corn (grinded smaller with NutriMill flour grinder) ... awesome result, shiny leaves & many buds. Birds like to eat that stuff. The growth can't compare to alfalfa meal, but I'm aiming for buds and health in hot summer, and not top growth. Alfalfa hay is $8 per bale, best to mix that in with dirt, since the hay is hard to decompose, plus matting-up, blocking water. Some info. from the lawn forum: â¢Posted by lee_in_iowa 4 to 5 on the lin (My Page) on Thu, Apr 14, 11 at 11:35 Boy, I can't recommend the soybean meal. Never again! I tilled it into the top 4-6 inches of my raised beds one year and it grew me a bumper crop of cutworms and armyworms. It attracted pests I had never had before. For myself, I like to ask for bales of alfalfa hay." Here is a link that might be useful: Reference link on Organic Fertilizers This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Mon, Sep 2, 13 at 10:02...See MoreApril 17, 2016 - fertilizer & good sleep & back pain & magnesium
Comments (63)Straw wrote: "Khalid: the advantage of rocks or pebbles is SLOW-RELEASE, so it's safer. If I don't like red-lava-rock leaving red iron-stains on the leaves, I just take them off... but I can't undo the damage of gypsum that drop the pH level with its 17% sulfur, or lime that shoot up the pH too fast. Taking off rocks or pebbles takes 1 min, compare that to hours scraping off cow manure .. the damage was done too fast & could not reverse that cow-manure-disaster. The advantage of pebbles/gravel is it's naturally released whenever acidic rain hits it ... so the release is controlled gently by Nature, rather than us foolishly dumping all at once. I take magnesium oxide daily with lemon juice, only 1/2 teaspoon is enough to have a MAJOR laxative effect in human. One Amazon customer complained of explosive diarrhea since he took 1 teaspoon. Rose is smaller than a human, so 1/4 teaspoon, or just a touch is enough to UP the pH-level ... it's very alkaline. Calcium is just the opposite: it's constipating, tense up muscle & contract heart ... versus magnesium is laxative, relaxes muscle, used as IV to treat heart diseases. Taste-wise, Magnesium oxide have zero salt, versus salty & bitter Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate). When I gave Angel Face rose too much gypsum (calcium sulfate), its leaves crinkled & curled up .. plus it lost the scent. Same with Bayes Blueberry: the foliage became ugly & dull. Too much calcium tense up and contract muscle in humans, which explains why leaves tense up .. and pucker up instead of flat & relaxed like normal leaves. OLDER leaves crinkled & curled up is typical of magnesium deficiency. YOUNGER leaves crinkled & curled up with yellow blotches is boron deficiency. Both are induced by too much calcium. Too much calcium also drives down potassium, resulting in less blooms & faded color. Calcium can be from gypsum (calcium sulfate), or lime (calcium carbonate), or hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide) which is added by municipals to treat tap-water .. this form of calcium shoots up the pH of tap water, causing magnesium and boron deficiency. Too much calcium drives down potassium, thus roses become stingy with tap-water high in hydrated lime. Too much calcium also cause balling of blooms: petals bunch-up, rather than relax and open-up. Below is a picture of boron deficiency, manifested as crinkled & curl-up YOUNGEST leaves, too much calcium induces boron deficiency." God bless you Straw....you are a gem. So....... I don't have to go to a chemical store to buy MgO2. I can buy it from a pharmacy I guess but they are selling it in the form of capsules mostly and that is expensive to as it comes with a brand name. But I will get it today because day after tomorrow morning I will be leaving Islamabad for 22 days. So I must do it before I leave. BTW, also need to keep some Monopotassium Phosphate in my stock. Just in case I see a potassium deficiency in any rose (which I don't expect anytime soon). Thanks a ton Straw....See Morestrawchicago z5
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7 years ago
jim1961 Zone 6a Central Pa.