Gypsum can help break up clay soils only if the problem is high sodium.

Stressed plants are more likely to be diseased than vigorous plants.

Container-grown plants are more likely to be stressed, and diseased, than the same kind grown in the ground.

This post was edited by jean001a on Sun, Aug 25, 13 at 1:37

Hi Jean: There are vast difference in climate and soil, so I don't make any generalization. In my garden only, container plants are quite healthy. Last year I had 24+ roses in container, plant them in the ground before frost hit. This year I bought 16 more roses, and now have 10 in container (two are Double-delight, are still clean despite its black spot reputation).

Below is floribunda Summer Samba, bought from Roses Unlimited end of June. It's fertilized with soluble gypsum and molasses, it's healthier than the many pots last year fertilized with alfalfa meal. I pinched off 5 fat buds to encourage root-growth, per RU's instruction.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Sep 1, 13 at 22:25

I can see why 2 University Extensions reported yellowing of plants in pots fertilized with pellets. See below discussion in the Soil Forum regarding alfalfa pellets:

â¢Posted by gardengal48 PNW zone 8 (My Page) on
Wed, Mar 25, 09 at 9:56

Yes, you can use too much, or too much in the wrong place :-) Alfalfa decomposes very rapidly (often recommended to kick-start cold compost piles) and that decompostion generates heat. Avoid applying raw alfalfa (meal or pellets) to the root zone as it can burn roots. Don't add alfalfa to planting holes - keep it as a surface application.
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⢠Posted by pennymca 7bAL (My Page) on
Wed, Mar 25, 09 at 14:09

Yes, gardengal is correct..I just found out the hard way on a particular clematis. Four of five thrived with the fifth, a different variety, getting burned maybe beyond repair.
Sometimes. I. am. overzealous."

***** From Straw: alfalfa meal is great when there's tons of rain ... lots of new growth and buds. Below is Crimson Glory rose as a band, instant flowering with alfalfa tea, but the root growth wasn't as good as fertilizing with soluble gypsum and sulfate of potash.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Mon, Sep 2, 13 at 10:00

After researching, I find that alfalfa meal decomposes fast and gives off quick heat, more so than alfalfa pellets. I cooked a geranium to death by planting in a clay mixed with alfalfa meal. I did the same with 2 rhododendrons in hot and dry summer.

Years ago we detached our lawn in late fall and stored bags of grass clippings in the garage .. the entire garage was heat up, despite 40 degrees outside.

NPK of alfalfa pellets is 2-1-2 ($17.99 for 50 lbs. bag), NPK of soy bean meal is 7-2-1 ($20 for 50 lbs. bag), and NPK of crack corn is 1.65 / 0.65 / 0.4 ($2.69 for 10 lbs. bag) at feed store. NPK of alfalfa hay is 2.45 - 0.5 - 2.1, sold for $8 per bale at the feed store.

Corn is alkaline, has anti-fungal property. Soybean meal is also alkaline. Alfalfa meal is slightly acidic and naturally high in sugar, great for fungal germination. See below discussion "Afalfa Meal Heating Up Soil" in Organic Gardening Forum:

â¢Posted by mprevost 7 (My Page) on Sun, Jan 13, 08

Throughout that time I've used only bagged composted chicken manure, alfalfa meal, soybean meal, and various mulches (leaves, grass clippings) to fertilize my soil.

I have not seen this heating up occur without significant concentrations of alfalfa meal. Without a lot of alfalfa meal, it does not heat up. But if you put a lot of alfalfa meal under mulch or in a hole, it gets REAL hot in a couple of days. Like as hot as a very hot compost pile. 150 deg F or so. "

**** From Straw: I haven't tested soy bean meal, so I won't recommend that. I tested cracked corn (grinded smaller with NutriMill flour grinder) ... awesome result, shiny leaves & many buds. Birds like to eat that stuff. The growth can't compare to alfalfa meal, but I'm aiming for buds and health in hot summer, and not top growth.

Alfalfa hay is $8 per bale, best to mix that in with dirt, since the hay is hard to decompose, plus matting-up, blocking water. Some info. from the lawn forum:

â¢Posted by lee_in_iowa 4 to 5 on the lin (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 14, 11 at 11:35

Boy, I can't recommend the soybean meal. Never again! I tilled it into the top 4-6 inches of my raised beds one year and it grew me a bumper crop of cutworms and armyworms. It attracted pests I had never had before.
For myself, I like to ask for bales of alfalfa hay."

Here is a link that might be useful: Reference link on Organic Fertilizers

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Mon, Sep 2, 13 at 10:02

The feed store informed me that a bale of alfalfa hay is $8. Harmonyp in Rose forum noted that alfalfa hay doesn't decompose well on top ... it mats up. I notice the same with grass clippings matting on top. I might have to rake the hay into the soil .. too much hassle. I stick with bagged compost.

I tried alfalfa hay last year ... worked great in promoting leaves. It doesn't de-compose well .. will take at least 2 years to break down. The reason why alfalfa hay works on top because it acts like a buffer to buffer the acidity of rain (pH of rain is 6 in my Chicagoland, and 5.6 in the East coast, according to Wikipedia). Will post pics later.

Re-post the info. from another thread into here for those who google:

University of Connecticut documented the release of NITROGEN in grass clippings: less than a month. I once raked FRESH grass clippings 2 weeks before planting tomatoes in May, and got a fantastic crop. Alfalfa meal or pellets is much smaller than grass clippings, and the release of NITROGEN is faster, within a week if given rain and bacteria to break it down.

Mixing alfalfa with compost or soil provide beneficial bacteria to speed up decomposition, that's why I raked FRESH grass clippings into soil, for faster release of nitrogen.

University of Illinois recommend late fall fertilization of roses, right before the ground freeze (late November). Why? Phosphorus (in leaves) moves down very slowly with a 1 mobility .. it takes months before reaching to the root zone. Folks also recommend liming in late fall, since calcium mobility is very slow, can't move down unless acidic rain-water break that down to soluble calcium.

Alfalfa pellets have NPK 2.7-1-2. The 2.7 nitrogen release is heat-dependent, won't be released until the temp. is above 58 F, which is right in spring time when roses are leafing.

So late fall fertilization with leaves, or alfalfa make sense, since it enables calcium, phosphorus and potassium to move down in advance to the root-zone, for more flowering in spring.

Potassium mobility is a 3, somewhat slow, and the solid potassium needs to be converted into soluble potassium for plants to use, so late-fall fertilization with alfalfa make sense. I did that late fall, and got the best spring flush ever, weeks before the rose park.

strawchicago(zone 5a)

Above is the wrong way to use alfalfa pellets: mixed in potting soil, which retains too much water. I had to take that Betty White rose out to plant into my clay, and mix that soil in the planting hole. There's no bacteria to break down the alfalfa pellets in potting soil like with natural clay.

I tried a new ORGANIC soluble fertilizer, made from soy bean, kelp, and sulfate of potash. Very impressed, really dark-green leaves. It contains billions of 'Archaea', the beneficial microorganisms that aggressively break down organic materials for faster result. I use that along with alfalfa pellets to break down the pellets faster. No rose-slugs infestation like previous years, despite weeks of rain. It's JOBE's organic SOLUBLE fertilizer, only once dose per 2 weeks.

I used that 2 weeks ago, and leaves are still very dark-green, I don't think it's the kelp .. that's too small of a dose, plus many days of all day rain. I think it's the Archae bacteria that's working on the alfalfa pellets. No aphids, no rose-slugs. The organic slow release nitrogen of soy bean and alfalfa help NOT to attract insects like fast-release chemical nitrogen which I tested previous years. The yellowish stuff is Standlee alfalfa pellets, zero salt, zero molasses. I had to order that from a Feed store a week in advance.

Any pellets bought from pet-store would contain molasses, plus salt, which attract flies. Sawfly which produce rose-slugs (sawfly larvae) is a type of fly, and flies like sugar and yeast. Below is the base of Dee-lish rose in a pot, 100% healthy despite weeks of rain. No aphids, no rose slugs in partial shade.

http://easygardener.com/index.cfm/category/295/water-soluble-all-purpose.cfm

Below is Betty White in the ground in April, after a harsh winter -30 below zero, mulched with alfalfa hay over the winter. It's 3 times bigger now, lots of basal break.

The alfalfa makes them so healthy. Thanks for the nice pictures.