Now that's a great solution! The ductless units are just what you need.

As a real estate agent, I can tell you that just about every buyer is looking for a home with central air now. (I am on the east coast) Since you mentioned colonial type house, I am assuming this is not a first time home buyer house. It would be even more important for resale. In my area, it seems to run anywhere from $9000 to $15,000. IMHO, well worth the money and it does increase the value for resale.

There is an active heating and A/C forum here. You'll find some great help there. I suspect you'll be well north of "$9000 to $15000" for duct work and heating and cooling systems, however those folks will know.

cost will very much depend on how easy/difficult it will be to run ductwork, I live in TX and I could not survive our summers without A/C (I have window units and just bought a new one for MBR yesterday - $179.00 for 6000 BTU.

Thank you all for your input.

Yes I have just started to read the AC forum and will look to see if I there vendors of the ductless units.

At the same time I am really interested in seeing if someone can share their experience with choosing NOT to get central AC in city where it was needed.

linda117117

Thank you for your comment, I thought it would help resell. Our agent and my wife however make the argument that plenty of homes sell in our region that do not have central (and sell at comparable values).

In a few homes we were interested in buying we had a nice little dilemma of improvements that we wanted to add but we were not sure what to do or what to do first

For example:

Gut and put in new kitchen vs add central AC (what should be done first if you plan to live in the house for 20+years?)

Finish basement OR add central AC (we have kids and man is a finished basement important to us)

Because of these choices we are planning on a budget of about 30-45k for one of those projects (new kitchen, finish basement OR add central).

So it s GREAT news to hear speculation of being able to add central for less than 20k.

If that turned out to be true that would allow us to do the AC and maybe just redesign a kitchen.

I look forward to reading about someone who has been in this scenario, your experience would be very helpful

Kitchen in first choice. AC in second choice.

I want ducts for both A/C and to deliver humidified air in heating season. I wouldn't buy a house without the capacity to have 'conditioned' air year 'round.

So I have lived in an area where we didn't have A/C and I have lived in areas where it was absolutely required. If you are used to having A/C, you are absolutely going to want conditioned space, regardless of what you might think, I would be very surprised if you can transition from conditioned to unconditioned space without significant discomfort. I did it and it took months before I could sleep without getting up 4 times in the middle of the night to stick my head in the fridge, and it was a fairly pleasant climate with nice sea breezes.

As for window units vs. some type of split system (mini-splits or central air), I find window units to be high maintenance, more expensive and somewhat dangerous. Window units must be installed in fairly tight tolerances so the condensation tray can help cool the unit, when they are not they are much more expensive to run, they also are a lot more prone to leaks than you might believe. We had an upstairs unit that had a small leak in the pan, it ruined two hardwood floors, walls in the second floor bedroom, down through the kitchen walls, and into the basement ceiling. It caused an incredible amount of damage from a tiny leak in the drip pan. Which you might think is a one-off, but it was the second time it happened, different rooms, different A/C's, but the same problem.

I am big fan of mini-splits - we used these when I lived in Europe and the Middle East. They were very nice. I loved the control of having bedrooms a different temperature than living areas. Each of our bedrooms had its own unit and you could set the temperature at whatever you wanted. We actually had LG Art Cool units which were awesome looking (google it). Not sure I would pay for it but they are cool looking. Mini-splits are just incredibly good as retrofits, but you may not get the resell bump. They are catching on in America, but are still sort of a fringe technology here.

Ducted A/C - This one is going to be a little harder to talk about price. A two story home 60 - 100 years old could have a variety of problems. It may be an easy install, but that would be the exception. Often when retrofitting in old two story homes, it is easier and cheaper to put two small units in (one in the attic and one in the crawl space), than it is to run up the walls. So any guess to the cost is going to just that - a guess. My father was partner in a plumbing and HVAC company, I didn't do much with the HVAC personally so I can't give you specifics. But I can tell you that I have seen retrofits run anywhere from $10,000 to $80,000. So much depends on the space you are going in. The older the home, the harder it will be, generally. However, big closets that they can steal space from make it easier, drywall rather than plaster make it easier, etc.

Good luck.

I think it will be pretty expensive to retrofit the ducts and add ac units. I paid 12k for two new hvac units and heat pumps, but the duct system was already in place. I also know I got a good deal at that price.

I know PA can get hot and humid. I think it would be a good investment to install some sort of AC.

Personally, I would add the AC system before adding a kitchen. I think you may want to live in the house at least a few mos. to see how you would want the kitchen configured anyway. If you think you might do an extensive remodel, I might consult an architect before even putting in the AC. The reason is to make sure the ducts all go in the right places, should you move walls.

In a house without existing ductwork I'd be looking seriously at a mini split system. I'd absolutely add AC ahead of a kitchen, and way ahead of a finished basement. I seem always to be able to eat even if the kitchen is a little run down, if the temp is over about 80 I can't sleep, and that's a big problem.

I grew up in an older house without AC for several years until my parents had it put in. As I recall it was a real mess when they were doing the install. I myself would not buy a house without central air unless there was a significant discount, not only for the cost of installing it but for the hassle. I live a little farther south than you but with my allergies I cannot have windows open much so AC is a necessity.

When I was househunting earlier this spring I did consider one home that did not have central air. The quote I got was $10K but the house was smaller than yours, about 1600 SF. It was not the only reason I didn't buy the house but it was a major factor. A larger home would probably need a two-zone system which I imagine is considerably more.

Lots of good info on the Heating and A/C forum about options for the house. Mini-splits have lots of flexibility in that they can heat, cool, and direct their efforts to only a portion of the house if desired. That said, they are not for everyone - some absolutely hate the appearance. They are quite efficient, however usually quite pricey to install. That cost may be offset somewhat by the savings due to not having to install ducts throughout the house.

Again, lots of experts over there.

We have a mini split due to living in a two story home. When we bought the place, we realized the heater wasn't heating downstairs. Brrrrrrr. So, ended up that the first owner installed it all wrong. There are two units on the roof. The small one controlled downstairs, and the big one upstairs. It got flipped, one new unit was purchased and ducts had to be redone for better efficiency. I don't think it's perfect, but not much you can do with an older home. Architecture and construction prevents access to certain areas, so in the hot kitchen, the AC vent is nowhere near the oven, cook top or sink, so cooking/clean-up is a sweaty job. I do have a fan in there which helps. I'm happy we have AC. The debate here is unmentioned. I turn the AC lower, he comes by and turns it higher. I put the master ceiling fan on high. He turns it low. Repeat. Repeat.

Alright I have set up estimates with contractors who install mini-split systems--thank you all for recommending them.

I poured through as many forums I could find in here about them. I realize that yes I have seen ductless systems in places in the Caribbeans and in at least 2 homes we viewed a year ago.

The contractors will be coming in this week and next week to view homes we are looking at. I intend to use their info to help us determine which house we should focus in on for buying and maybe find out if there any deal breakers in terms of house materials that do not work well with the ductless. Some of you have said things like drywall over plaster, sadly I have no real clue what that means but I hope the contractors can explain.

For some reason the regular HVAC people were not so willingly to come due to the homes not having ductwork already and one of the larger companies in the area flat out told me they don't service older homes that lack ductwork.

Man if the house was a person that would a easy case of age discrimination.

Rwiegand you describe my wifes's situation yet somehow she still argues kitchen or basement first! This past July she would turn the wall unit so that the room was so cold that I had to sleep our covers we use in the Fall, it was 80 outside she wanted the room to be near 60 and I was in the Twilight zone.

We are looking at one house that has been updated interior (amazing kitchen and baths) but lacks a finished basement and central. She would rather finish the basement then put in central.

There is another home that lacks both a kitchen, finished basement and central ac (but it is in great shape and a bargin of a price). In analyzing this house we can't seem to agree on what we would do first.

We currently use AC wall units and it annoys both of us to come home and have parts of the house to be hot stuffy like the hallways and the kitchen.

I really hope the estimates for the ductless are such that we can agree to do 2 items and not just pick one.

Once I got my two estimates I will share, I am sure we are not the only people debating this issue.

One of the biggest gripes about the mini-splits is the high installation costs and the shortage of knowledgeable and experienced installers, including factory training and certification. There are many less that installers that are simply out to make a quick buck.

There are numerous threads on this over at Heating and A/C. I just noted that you have not posted over there.

Well, I tried.

I can tell you my experience. I used to live in a very hot part of Southern Cal. Central A/C was a requirement there, or a swamp cooler, but A/C was pretty much expected. The year the a/c broke and we were too broke to fix it, we still survived, even though I was very pregnant and it was over 100 degrees, surviving did not smell pretty though. Our rule there was the a/c was not turned on until it was 95 degrees outside.

When I moved to the mountains of NM and built a house, we did have the duct work installed for a swamp cooler, as it was easier to do in the building phase but this was not central, all over the house. We have radiant heat, so no other need for ducts. Our house is well insulated and it was designed to go with the natural patterns of heat and cold. We have been in the house for 9 years now and have never turned on the swamp cooler. We do have ceiling fans in all bedrooms and each year there are only a few truly uncomfortable days. The times I miss having a central a/c has had more to do with wild fire smoke blowing through and needing to close the windows because of that. All bedrooms are on the second story so most of the time we can sleep with windows open and very importantly, since it is a desert climate, the nights cool down significantly (generally by about 30 degrees). In a climate where the nights do not cool off as much, I think the a/c more important. I also think that most people are not as conscious of the utility savings as we are and I think more people prefer to have the a/c.

Hello,

SaltiDawg

I am not sure how Houzz Forums work in this case.

Should I post the same original post in the Heating AC forum?

I assumed that the same users see all forum traffic from the main forum page. But your comment implies that there are folks who only read specific sub-groups.

Really I don't want to be needy and post the same request for help in two places (if everybody already can see it).

I am getting helpful insight from the thread here but I just want to make sure I understand your correct.

I think you are saying that there are other expert forum participants that I might tap into by posting the same original comment in the AC forums. Is that correct?

tishtoshnm Zone 6/NM

I have never heard of a swamp cooler. I will have to Google it. The imagine my mind is making up is a that of a meat lock with comfortable furniture.

Technically, they are called evaporative coolers and work in dry climates by adding humidity to the air. In my area, they work most of the time except during our monsoon season when there is some moisture in the air. If your area is humid, an evaporative cooler would not be effective. Some people love em, others hate them. As they use water, it also adds another issue to the conversation during droughts.

Just wanted to add another option. Years ago, I saw this system being used on a This Old House project and it is the perfect solution for adding AC to older homes. It is a high velocity system that uses very small ducts. You can probably find the TOH episodes for more third party info.

http://www.unicosystem.com/

Ah, so that is what is meant by a swamp cooler.

It all makes sense.

I'm one who doesn't like it.

You need to post again. Your post won't show up anywhere but here.

I lived in NY and there were many older homes without AC. I had friends and neighbors who tried to get central and wound up using window units because of the plaster walls/ceilings. Some homes had plaster walls and ceilings and it was impossible to install duct work without running the ducts on the outside walls or inside walls. The outside wall ducts would get heated by the sun making cooling expensive.

Older homes are tricky and some can only get window or ductless AC.

Good luck,

Jane

Did you come to a decision, Charles? Who won?

I was just sitting here reading, and thinking, and I thought, why don't more people insulate the houses they build or renovate and do without air conditioning full stop? It is what I would prefer. So much more comfortable to live in, I imagine. And of course better for the purse and the environment.

And when they go to work their work space needs to not have A/C - it's awfully tough to work in a cool office and come home to none.

Just sayin'.

tete-a-tete, That is basically what we have done. When we built, we used blown-in insulation, as our landscaping matures, it is beginning to help cool the house. We use window treatments and the opening and closing of windows at the right times to help regulate the temperatures and use ceiling fans. For us, part of it is budget. We could not own the home we do and spend a lot of money on climate control. Part of it is environmental responsibility. One thing that helps us though, is our climate is generally dry and the temperatures drop significantly in the evenings. However, tight insulation restricts air flow so when the nights get cooler, there is a period of time when it is much more comfortable outside. If I were to build again, I would have added a sleeping porch upstairs that was screened in for some of the summer nights. Some things that help too are that I work at home, so I can manage the opening and closing of windows and the windows can be open during the day as someone is home. If I was not home, the windows would have to be closed as a theft deterrent and in case of rain (which would be bad for the wood floors). Also, all of our sleeping quarters are upstairs so we can leave the windows open with less worry. I would not be inclined to allow my kids to sleep with open windows if they were on the ground floor. It is a complicated thing.

Yes, you are right, tishtoshnm.

As I was laying in bed mulling my own question over, it came to me (after my OH said it) that nights don't always become cool. And he also pointed out that when he comes home from his 21 degree (Celsius) office, he is knocked by a heat wave.

He did remind me though that a good thing about an evaporative cooler is that in the morning you can turn on the fan and blow cool air through the house (if the morning did eventually become cool), without turning on the swamp function.

tete_a_tete - If you live where you use an evaporative cooler, then you are not in a humid environment. Some of us live in places where not only does it not always get cool at night, but it is also humid a lot. Opening windows does not always work well in those environments.

Like most real estate questions - this one is location-specific. Have you tried polling your local RE agents - Im sure they'd be happy to talk esp in off season when theyre not busy. Here in upper midwest in historic neighb of mostly old houses you are not going to find much central AC at all but you will find it in the new construction (obviously). Whether its worth retrofitting or not - I would also look at the specific house in question - some high ceilinged old Victorians with lots of large windows and good cross ventilation and a whole-house attic fan are going to cool down at night and handle the heat a lot better than some other places.

That said its an interesting question and what I as a future buyer am curious about is if I would be expected to pay more for an older house with central AC retrofitted and how much more. Not worth it to me -Id maybe use it a week or two out of the entire year.

True, dekeoboe. I live in a dry area though it can at times be humid - but luckily that is still unusual.

I guess I just feel disappointed with the swamp cooler. I had thought that it was the end of the Very Hot Days, but I didn't realise that one daughter would deem it necessary to turn on the cooling when opening a door would have sufficed.

I should have known though that everything has its drawbacks. With coolness comes either noise or a cold jet of ice on your back or the feel of sitting in a cold jungle somewhere having hot flushes. When a house is built to take advantage of its orientation, comfort can be had much more easily.

Hey folks,

So the estimates are in.

Putting a ductless mini split in a 3 story house came out to a high number of $19,815.

Here are the details on that quote:

Installing 6 new Mitsubishi Duct Less splits systems for heating and cooling for first & second floor & third

(5) Mitsubishi 6,000 Btu duct less split air handler.

(1) Mitsubishi 18,000 Btu duct less split air handlers.

(1) Mitsubishi 48,000 Btu outdoor unit.

Total $19,815.00

Of course the costs was cheaper if we just did 4 units it was $13,995. That would be the situation in a two story home.

Two other contractors were pretty much in the same ballpark dollars of difference.

The contractors were all very helpful and I am absolutely convinced that going ductless was the way to go.

I was advised by the contractors that I need to be aware that homes with lots of walls increase the likelihood of needing more units.

So this whole open-layout design craze is certainly going to help the ductless business.

I really help the honest numbers helps others. Thank you to those who commented earlier with prices, your quotes were very much within range.

The price of 13k for us is reasonable enough to ease our concerns about looking at a home that lacks AC.

----Now if we just find a home we agree on.

Ohh also wanted to add, that installing ductwork central was problematic in many of the homes we were interested in and that I took the contractors to see.

However, in one house I was given a ballpark (no actual estimate) of 25k for dual zone but a cost of 19k for ductless