Be wary of any rose listed as being hardy to 6b on HelpMeFind since this is the default -- and I wouldn't try 'Marechal Niel' here where I am, considering my 'Jaune Desprez' succumbed to its first Winter. With climbers, there's just so much more exposed to the elements during Winter that they get hit hard.

I'd also think 'Mme Bravy' and most other Teas would require considerable Winter protection in 6a. There is someone who zone pushes Teas in 5-something, but her plants remain small, despite being covered for Winter. Here, I have to cut a lot of Winter damage from my "Bermuda Spice", but it does rebound and grow vigorously. 'Lady Hillingdon' kept more cane after last Winter than the one before, and what it's grown this season looks to be "ripening" enough that I think it will keep at least 12" through Spring.

'Reine Victoria' would probably be the hardiest of the three for you.

:-)

~Christopher

Thanks Chris! Reine Victoria is in. but the other 2 are so pretty......I have 1 MAC growing in my garden, may be mme Bravy can do the same......I am growing Gloire de Dijon in a pot, may be Marechal Niel can be in another pot....... :-)

I'll be experimenting with Teas in pots which get moved into either my garage or my enclosed unheated back porch for Winter. I'm thinking that if I move them after frosts knock them into dormancy, they'll stay asleep as long as they stay cold. We'll see how that works out. They certainly do grow and bloom through the hot Summer here, so that makes them worth the trouble for me.

:-)

~Christopher

See, here you go! :-) Are you getting a Marechal Niel?? I just found out one rose can have 3 names!? mme Bravy is also called mme Serat, Danzille. I am searching for the nurseries right now.

I don't want to try 'Marechal Niel' until I move further south -- the idea of moving a potted climber into the garage for Winter isn't very appealing to me. I already have a bunch of "pot-pets" I received in late Spring. Right now, they're sitting in 2-gal containers filled with my "magic mix" to promote growth. In Spring, they'll go into either 15" pots or 22" barrels, depending upon their eventual sizes.

Chinas
"Boone Hall China" -- Angel Gardens
"Ferndale Red China" -- Rose Petals Nursery
'Miss Lowe’s Variety' -- Rogue Valley Roses
'Mutabilis' -- Rose Petals Nursery

Teas
'Alexander Hill Gray' -- Rose Petals Nursery
'Alliance Franco-Russe' (aka "Fake Perle") -- Rose Petals Nursery
'Devoniensis' -- Rogue Valley Roses
'Etoile de Lyon' -- Rose Petals Nursery
'Homere' -- Burlington Roses
'Perle des Jardins' -- Angel Gardens
'Rosette Delizy' -- Rose Petals Nursery
"Thomasville Old Gold" -- Long Ago Roses


Here in 7a -- though these past two Winters dipped into 6b territory a couple times -- I tried a few Chinas and Teas planted in the ground in 2013, when I got my first round of roses. They took a beating after their first Winter, but rebounded. Those were:

"Bermuda Spice" -- Vintage Gardens
'Lady Hillingdon' -- Vintage Gardens
'Louis Philippe' -- Rogue Valley Roses (though I'm not sure I got the right one, it's definitely a red China)
'Mme Laurette Messimy' -- Vintage Gardens

Seeing that they seem to rebound after removing lots of Winter damage, I tried a few more for the spots I hadn't finished planting yet. Both spots get a lot of Sun, which will give them what they need to grow after Spring removal of Winter damage. We'll see how these do in the ground.

'Arethusa' -- Rogue Valley Roses
'Comtesse du Cayla' -- Long Ago Roses
'Cramoisi Superieur' -- Angel Gardens
'Ducher' -- Rose Petals Nursery
"Dutch Fork China" -- Angel Gardens
'Louis Philippe' -- Angel Gardens (and this seems to be the real thing)
'Rival de Paestum' -- Rose Petals Nursery


:-)

~Christopher

Wow, you have a long list! Do you want to share some of your magic? :-) What's your magic mix?

These are my new babies in pots, they will be in the basement during their 1 st winter.

Annie Laurie McDowell

Gloire de Dijon

Secret Garden Musk

Souv de la Malmaison Rouge

Souv de la Malmaison

Xiang Fen Lian

Grandma's Hat

Sou. d'Elise Vardon

Vick's Caprice

Also have 25 rose trees and 1 China Doll in pots, they're always in the garage during the winter.

I just planted some rose bands (climbers/ramblers) in the garden since they were good size & hardy ( have been in pots for 5-6 weeks with Lowe's potting mix):

Victorian Memory

Ghislaine de Feligonde

Tess of the d'Urbervilles

Harlekin

Viking Queen

Buff Beauty

Phyllis Bide

Parade

Compassion

Thanks Chris for sharing the Magic mix! :-) It's pretty difficult, it needs so many things, worse than the cooking recipes...... :-) I hate cooking........I can try to get some used coffee grounds from Tim Hortons close by. Thanks!

I got everything -- except the used coffee grounds, which I pick up daily from Starbucks -- from Home Depot. The peat moss I bought in the 3 cubic feet bag, the Bovung in the yellow 25 pound bag, and the vermiculite and perlite in the 2 cubic feet bags. I went with the Garden Tone because they sold it in 27 pound bags at the best "price per pound" for an organic fertilizer meeting my needs. I got enough of everything so that I have some on-hand whenever I need to pot something, and then it's just a matter of scooping each part into the wheelbarrow and mixing it up. I use a 1-gal bucket for scooping the ingredients, so one batch equals 6-gals, and thus requires 3 cups of Garden Tone. After making it once, it becomes rather second nature to throw together the next batches -- three buckets of peat moss, one bucket each of those other three things, and then six 1/2 cup scoops of fertilizer. Having the 1-gal bucket and 1/2 cup measuring scoop out there makes it easy. Previously I tried some other recipes, but I find that the perlite and vermiculite keep things both fluffy and moisture-retentive -- which allows for easy root development. The nutrients are slow-release so there's no burning, as might happen with a pre-bagged mix containing water-soluble fertilizer. And the thin layer of used coffee grounds on top masks the "fragrance" of the Bovung in the mix.

:-)

~Christopher

Wow Chris, I hope you have room to storage all these bags. :-) If I was your neighbor, I'd give you BBQ chicken for dinner in exchange for your magic mix! :-)

My Reine Victoria is approximately 9 years old. It's height is 4- 5 tall.

Thanks Krista. It's nice to know Reine Victoria is hardy for a colder zone. I hope I can find a bare root.

Hi Summers

I'm one of the folks who zone pushes teas in zone 5, and Christopher is right that they tend to stay small. Also, only perhaps one in four of the teas I try survive even with this treatment, so it's an iffy proposition for Madame Bravy. The tricky thing about bringing a tea in for the winter in pots as well is that teas don't really go dormant as HTs and other types of roses do. That means you'd be at greater risk for spider mites and all kinds of other problems with them inside for the winter. Marchial Niel also has a reputation even in warmer zones for being a very very picky rose and hard to grow well.

On the other hand, among your potted roses that you plan to bring inside, Grandmother's Hat and Vick's Caprice should be fine planted outside for the winter in the ground in 6a - they survive well in my zone and can be cane hardy in a good year. The rest on your list are indeed a little iffy in your zone, particularly the SDLM and climber. I've failed to overwinter Annie Laurie McDowell and Secret Garden Musk several times now, and we'll see if I can scrape Xiang Fen Lian through in the protected tea bed.

Your climber/ramblers all should be fine as they're hardy for me a zone colder. Buff Beauty was probably the least hardy of the bunch, but it survived several seasons and I'll be replacing it. Compassion is also a bit tender for me and died the previous year, so I'll be replacing that probably. The rest should be very good climbers for you.

Cynthia

Remember that with a lot of the warm climate roses, it isn't only the cold winters they despise. They also dislike the cool summers, springs and falls. So not only do they have to deal with winterkill, but also a short, cool growing season to replace what they lost. It usually doesn't add up.

One of my serious lightbulb moments was when Roseseek said that teas and chinas know little about cold dormancy, but a lot about drought dormancy. They come from a monsoon climate where the normal annual cycle is wet/dry instead of warm/cold like we are used to. I think it is one of the things that make growing their descendants extremely difficult in this climate. Late summer and fall is hurricane season, and while we are too far inland to get official hurricanes, we often get tropical storms capable of dropping enormous amounts of rain. So there is a very bad combination of plants that need to go dormant to survive the cold and aren't particularly good at picking up on cold signals being given strong moisture signals to grow.

Thanks Cynthia, Mad-gallica and Chris, now I have 3 experienced rose gardeners all telling me no, I take them off my list, they're such pretty roses....... stuck in an ice hole, can't grow a lot of pretty ones. I planted some old garden rose bands in the garden last year, Annie and Renae were the 2 tender ones out of that bunch of rose bands, they both made it through the cold winter, Renae had no winter protection at all, Annie had a wax paper bag covered over. So this year I thought I could plant more tender roses......I will move Buff Beauty and Compassion to a different location away from the chilly winter wind. I'm thinking about planting SDLM, SDLMR and Secret Garden Musk next spring at the east side of a garden shed, away from the winter wind, that spot should be 6b I think, but it's in half shade. I hope they can take a little shade.

I am glad I checked with you guys, thanks for helping me. I will keep reading this Old Roses book......I might check back here with more roses. :-)

I don't know about where you are, but here last year was nothing to get excited about. We did not get that cold, and had more than adequate snow cover. The midwest got socked, but we weren't even cold enough to freeze soap bubbles.

Mad-gallica, I am near Lake Erie and Lake Ontario in NY. You must near Albany area. South of us got 7' of snow in 24 hrs last winter, we only got 8" in the same snow storm. The lakes keep us a little warmer than eastern NY (growing zone)? I thought Albany area is warmer than us for some reason. We did have some sub zero weather here.

mad_gallica is right about Chinas and Teas and other "warm-climate" roses not liking cool Summers -- and this is probably why the old books written in Great Britain bemoan then as "lacking vigor". In reality, they simply didn't get the heat they needed to promote vigorous growth, despite not having to endure Winters as severe as they are here.

Where I am, the growing season is warm to hot, humid, and we get ample rain. I lived in Buffalo, NY for three years, and the Summers there were not nearly as hot and humid as all my years on Long Island and my past three years in central NJ. This is why I went with a wide range of rose types when I was shopping for this garden -- I knew that the once-blooming European OGRs would just yawn through Winters here, but I see that they pretty much stop putting out new growth once the temps start hanging in the 90s.

I wasn't sure how well Chinas and Teas would do, but was encouraged when I read that Stephen Scanniello grows some both in his Barnegat, NJ garden and in various client gardens in NYC and Long Island. So I went with a few. Yes, they took a beating after Winter, but while most of my other roses languished through Summer, they were invigorated with growth and bloom. Pruning the dead stuff off in Spring left them looking rather like how most people treat Buddleia butterfly bushes, but also like them, they quadruple in size by the end of the growing season. However, if you don't get hot Summers, they may not get what they need to "make up" for what Winter took away from them, and you'll be left with tiny things that are always on the cusp of growing backwards.

When Winter comes, the new Teas and Chinas I got which I intend to keep in pots will be going into the garage or my enclosed-but-unheated back porch. Before that time, I'll stop watering them. I'm hoping that keeping them cold and dry after they get smacked into their version of dormancy will keep them from trying to grow again. And they'll be out of the wind. I'll bring them out again in late March or early April, which is about when my other roses start leafing out. Temperatures at that time of year don't go any lower than they do in late Autumn here, and the few Chinas and Teas I have in the ground are still blooming a little then. And those temperatures are much like the lowest reached in zone 9. Keep in mind that this is my first time trying this, so I can't say if my plan is sure to work.

If you have an area where you can set up grow-lights, perhaps you can try keeping them there for the Winter. But as was mentioned before, roses don't often do well in typical indoor air.

Beyond that, you may want to look at Bourbons and Hybrid Perpetuals and Portlands (aka Damask Perpetuals) if you want to expand into OGRs that repeat-bloom. When I was in Buffalo, I gifted a few to some neighbors, and they got through Winters there with very little dieback. Of course, this will vary with the cultivars -- those with more recent Tea ancestry will be less hardy.

Another bit of advice when looking up roses on HelpMeFind is to go beyond the zone hardiness rating and instead look to see which member gardens grow that particular rose. If a member garden is in your neck of the woods, that could be an indication that it will be OK for you. And be willing to experiment -- most roses don't do well everywhere, but there's usually many which do well somewhere in particular. And if you're starting with bands, aim for Spring delivery and try to push growth through the Summer by growing them in pots with something like my "magic mix". Then plant after the hottest part of Summer has passed, a little deeper in the ground than you'd think. That little bit of extra depth may help a baby through its first Winter.

:-)

~Christopher

Yes, I'm about an hour south of Albany.

Sub-zero is just what other people call winter. If we don't go below zero it is called a very warm winter. We expect to go below zero, so it isn't some magic number where the world comes to an end. If a plant can't handle those temperatures, I have no desire to plant it. It will just have a short, unhappy existence.

Oh, and one rose which might not seem a likely fit for your climate actually did quite well for one of my neighbors in Buffalo. I gifted him a potted band of 'Prosperity', the Hybrid Musk. He planted it in the center of his front garden, and let it arch up and out over other plants in his cottage-y plot. It bloomed in waves through the growing season. He had to cut it back by at least a third in Spring, but it grew back vigorously.

:-)

~Christopher

Back to work today, I need another vacation! :-)

Now I know Albany area is a bigger ice hole, much colder than here. Last 2 winters were cold for this area. Can't say the coldest but they were close.

Glad to know someone else here grows hybrid musks too. Under Hybrid Musks I have Buff Beauty, Lavender Lassie, Penelope, Excellenz Von Schubert, Ghislaine de Feligonde, and Sally Holmes. EVS and SH are in their 2nd year here, they did die to the ground but they grew back and bloom like nothing happened. I hope all others can stay in my garden for a long time.....I will give them some winter protection this year, I didn't do anything last winter. Hope this winter won't be too bad, don't like the sub zero weathers. It's too cold. I think we have about 2-3 weeks of that each year. So I guess it's not too bad here. :-) Chris, you must remember the cold days in this ice hole since you were here once, walked on the ice, danced in the snow, drove through the blizzard...... :-)

I do, and no offense, but I'd never live there again. Some people enjoy Winter, but I'm not one of them. My next stop is Florida.

:-)

~Christopher

Lol. Running out an ice hole and jump into a fire pit...... :-) A lot of retired people here move to FL in the winter, and come back in the summer, we call them snow birds. :-) I hope you can grow all the roses you wanted in FL! :-)

Why is it an ice garden? Is that last winter?

We have very cold winters (down to -27 F. some years) and lots of wind and snow. But we have beautiful roses! Old-fashioned roses, especially damasks do very well. Rugosas, Rugosa Hybrids, Canadian Explorer Roses, and some lovely zone 5 roses by the house.

In this more protected area we also have some David Austins, Floribundas, and many different shrub roses. And the Bleu Magenta grows around the porch and looks beautiful every June. It's just finding the right rose for your space....oh and Madame Plantier is a lovely white rose, supposedly hardy to zone 3 :)

Lavender_lass, It's pretty cold here in Jan-Feb, we can have -10 temp, everything frozen like a ice kingdom. :-) -27?! Not as cold as your bigger ice hole, :-) but I have to wear my coyote coat and hat and lamb fur boots for the coldest days here. Roses are normally under the thick snow (7" to 2') during the cold period. MAC had winter die back to the ground, the past 2 winters were very cold for our area. I try to grow cold hardy roses, but those rated for 6b are really pretty. I was just checking out Edmond Proust at lunch time........I will check into the damasks roses. I have some Rugosas and Canadian cold hardy roses, I love the cabbage roses the most for some reason. Thanks for the tips! :-)

i suggest you do bit more research on marchal niel before you purchase it i did buy it, i live in zone 9b and i babied that thing for 7 months before it finally croaked i did get a few buds out of it, but it never caught on i had it in a 24 inch pot, bought it at antique rose emporium gorgeous gorgeous blooms and the leaves were very nice too

Thanks Zippity1, marchal niel looks so pretty and has strong fragrance, that's what I am looking for, but it's for a warmer zone......... I hope it will bloom more for you and fill your garden with fragrance! :-)