T Richards: Sometimes I just sprinkle it on top, but lots of times, I'll mix corn meal or masa with water into a paste, dig a hole and bury a ball of the stuff in the compost. The worms can come to it, or back away as they wish. They mostly just pig out on it.

The worms will pretty much eat it cooked or raw - anyway they can get it.

If you like to blend your inputs, that's OK. Some have noticed, though, that since blending breaks apart the cells of things, it releases a lot of the water in the veggies and whatever. That extra water will be immediately available in the bin and increase moisture levels right away. Leaving the food in larger chunks makes the water more of a slow-release thing. The point is to just be aware of the situation.

If you want to put some worms into a second bin, that's OK, too. I've had a working bin, and put a small few in a second bin on occasion. It will usually take quite a while before that second bin gets a decent sized population, but they often get really fat and lazy ;-)

What you normally want is to have enough worms in your first bin that you'll have enough breeding stock to build populations, but side experiments are definitely interesting to witness.

thanks priswell! I've noticed for sure that blending/freezing/thawing releases a lot of water. I try to pour off the excess water before putting it into the bin - learned my lesson after the first few times of putting the blended food in and the bin was really watery!

I'm going to try the cornmeal paste ball - I like that idea, as it's contained. I was a bit worried about somehow spreading cornmeal throughout the bin and what if they don't like it. This is a great way to keep an eye on how it's working! Thanks for the tip

somehow spreading cornmeal throughout the bin and what if they don't like it.

Oh, they'll like it!! The only problem is that it might cause the bin to heat up hotter than the worms can tolerate. So, if you're gonna add cornmeal or corn masa, either sprinkle it on top or do a pocket feed of it.

What are your collective thoughts on stale bread? I do not add it since I feel there are chemicals in it that may not be good for worms. (Actual comment from hubby: "Oh, you feed it to ME but it might be bad for your WORMS??!") We don't have much, as a rule, and mostly I make bread crumbs from if so as not to waste it, or feed it to the local pond mallards. Now & then the end of a loaf gets pushed to the back of the pantry & turns fuzzy and I have added that to the big outdoor pile where there are lots of critters who can take it or leave it. :-)

I have no problems feeding stale bread to my worms in the bin. But we also feed the birds here, so it's a toss up as to whether the birds or the worms will get it.

Worm farming is an ongoing learning experience of how to. I just recently started a new bin its a rubberized tote. Took about a lb of worms from my factory and the new bin is doing well does not sweat at all like my homemade plastic does.

As for feeding I think I have given my worms most things from kitchen veggie scraps to stale bread , pasta, even pancakes on occasion. Cornmeal with Oats seems to go down pretty good too, I just sprinkle on the surface and mist it down. I save all this stuff up in ziplock bags [ I dont freeze] then when I have enough I run it all thru my juicer at the same time and if I feel the pulp is too dry I add some of the juice back in to make it more of a slurry for the worms. I keep this mix in a container until I need to give a feed. BTW my bins are never too wet and never have any liquid drainoff-- with one exception when I feed watermelon the bin will become wetter. My juicer the hamilton beach big mouth 800 watt machine. I find anything with less power wont do the job well enough. Ive been using this machine for 3 yrs now without a hitch and all the parts except the motor are dishwasher safe. For about $50 you cant beat it unless you want one of those high class machines , go for it.

Heres a couple shots of my drain tray from my factory 360 with the worm ladder which allows worms to crawl back up into the next tray should there ever be water drainage which I never seem to get , this is how mine always looks.

weedlady... you know your husband has a point there...

I was leery of adding bread to our bins because of all the cautions I've read on vermicomposting websites. Then about a month ago I tried one slice and part of a pizza and no harm came to the worms so... We have a large crockpot that my wife has taken to putting "worm food" in (kitchen scraps) and about a week or so ago my wife put in almost a whole loaf of Italian bread just short by about 3 or 4 slices, because she said she thought there was some mold (I think it was just some bake flour on the bottom... it was a bakery specialty bread). I thought "why not?" and split the loaf and put half in each bin under a 6" layer of shredded cardboard/paper. A week later I couldn't find a single scrap of it leftover any where, no crust, not even pieces of the ends, its all completely gone. Yesterday I added another half loaf the wife put into the crockpot... it was an oatmeal with whole grains... we shall see how that goes over with the worms. Oh and a work mate gave me some half-baked (literally) cup cakes his wife made him take to work... so guess we will see how the worms like lots of sugar with their bread.

hummersteve.... similar to you, I too feed grains. Back in November I purchased a 50 lbs bag of hen egg-layer mash from the local grain elevator (cost was $14). I have a Vitamix that my sister gave me years ago (we use it to juice berries and such... we also have a centrifugal juicer and a mastication juicer for the greens and other fruits). With the Vitamix I can powder that mash up in seconds and filled a two gallon container up... (still got a LOT of layer mash left in the sack for future... like 40 lbs left to powder up). Also powdered up a whole container of steel-cut oats that I don't eat because it takes too long to make in the mornings before work... and added that to the powdered mash. To this powdered-up grain I added bone meal, kelp meal, dolomitic limestone and azomite... all of it finely powdered and in small quantities. Then I do like you and mix in a few handfuls into the juicing pulp just before I put it in the bin... if I need more liquid to moisten I'll add milk (usually spoiled if we have any, my wife doesn't like me to keep spoiled milk around though). Worms are fat. I'm thinking of adding powdered milk to the mix now... worm breeders apparently do this. With the final goal in mind of using the castings as plant fertilizer, I'm thinking it might be another good way to add more calcium to the worm castings and the whey protein should encourage the worms to be even more prolific.... not a bad thing since I'm thinking of starting another couple of bins soon.

monomer, super interesting information. I'd be really curious how it goes with the powdered milk. I didn't realize you could feed dairy to the worms. would a specific type be best (eg: whey protein isolate vs. concentrate?)

Everything Ive read is that you shouldnt add any dairy to the bins and that includes cheese. Just took a look in my worm factory guide book. It states no dairy , fats , oils. cheese, no packaged foods that would be preservatives and salts which would be harmful to the worms.

Yes, I've read about all those no-no foods online... and the reason "they" give for diary and meats is it will attract vermin... also I know meat takes a long time to decompose (which is often referred to as rotting) and as for oil "they" say it will coat the worms and that in turn will repel moisture and suffocate the worms... but I know many vegetables and grains contain oils in them so I'm thinking "they" must really be referring to animal fat which could go rancid and stink up the bin.

HOWEVER, I fed them my wife's salad a couple weeks ago complete with Ranch dressing (oil), and olives (which are soaked in a brine), and topped with cheese (diary) and yet the worms consumed it all without issue and it didn't take them too long. Then there was the pizza with cheese and tomato sauce and bread crust and I assume a bit of salt from the cheese... and they ate that without issue as well. So I've decided the no-no foods are likely an issue if fed in large quantities... such as bacon fat or drippings from a roast or a solid chunk of cheese (there is a lot of salt in cheese, its used to draw the whey out of the curds). However under no circumstance will I ever feed them meat or pet feces (eww, I know right)... those will remain on my do not fed to the worms list of foods.

I was reading a thread by worm breeders discussing worm feeding formulas and it sounds like a common practice is the feeding of grains to fatten them up (grains have both protein and oils)... some of those guys added dried milk to goose the protein content, and I guess you could buy it skimmed if you didn't want the fat content. I think I'm gonna try it.... will let you know how it all goes.

Wow, I just remembered... two days ago just before I fed them juicing pulp I mixed in 2 tablespoons straight (undiluted) of hydrolyzed fish and kelp fertilizer to the pulp... I noticed on the bottle it suggested to add it to the compost pile to feed the microbes (of course they mean diluted with a couple gallons of water)... so I figured I tried a little to see if the worms liked it. I remember now its very oily stuff... fish oils... checked it today and the worms were only at the edges apparently feeding? but when I touch it I noticed the middle of the pile was actually quite warm (I think about 80 or 85F). when the rest of the bin is generally around 65F... so I think the nitrogen is indeed feeding the thermophilic bacteria, I hope no harm will come to the worms but I'm thinking if they don't like it they have the whole rest of the bin to hang out in, why surround that pile of pulp if they don't like it right? I suspect they will dive right in once it has cooled a few degrees.

I'd be really curious how it goes with the powdered milk. I didn't realize you could feed dairy to the worms.

Worms love dairy. The only reason I can think of to avoid dairy is because it may draw animals. Worms actually don't mind meat either. But it certainly will draw cats, flies, opossums, rats. . .whatever else is in the neighborhood.

I mostly just avoid very salty food and vinegar-y foods such as leftover salad doused in salad dressing. I generally don't pour rancid oil or shortening, but I'm thinking that since worms breathe through their sides that the oil might cause problems there.

so I think the nitrogen is indeed feeding the thermophilic bacteria, I hope no harm will come to the worms

Yeah, if you put in something you're not sure about, it's better to try a corner or a pocket so they can back away from whatever it is.

<I noticed the middle of the pile was actually quite warm (I think about 80 or 85F).>

No wonder your worms wander, leave the bin, hot & wet too.

Ah but they don't try to leave the bin as long as I leave the lid off... and I just now checked on them and there are worms actually in the middle of the pile, I assume slurping up whatever is composting... may be its the hydrolyzed fish since it is by definition already decomposed. That stuff doesn't stink, much better than fish emulsion, which does stink.

I once added powdered milk (several yrs. old) and no harm done. Mixed it in the juice pulp and pocket fed.

<<I noticed the middle of the pile was actually quite warm (I think about 80 or 85F).>>

<No wonder your worms wander, leave the bin, hot & wet too.>

80 or 85F is a happy zone for my worms. The bin easily gets to that temperature just from equilibrium with the environment during the spring and summer, and they're much happier there than when the temps are in the 60s.

You could add pea protein....naked pea is my go to brand

Good suggestion but at $11 per pound for Naked Pea (Amazon 5-lbs @ $54.99) might be a little expensive for me.... BUT maybe I can just purchase bulk peas in a sack and powder it up in my Vitamix. Will check on this this week.... thanks.

We have a pellet stove, and we keep these on hand. They're cheap per pound. I don't use them regularly or even often, but they are awesome if the bin gets over watered. They soak up water and fall apart into tiny bits. Stove pellets run less than $10 per 40lb bag.

Sometimes, I'll also use alfalfa pellets or a combination of alfalfa and stove pellets, depending on various factors. Alfalfa is very high in nitrogen, so I have to be careful about amounts, but like the stove pellets, are exceptionally dry, which helps to balance out the moisture of the bin sometimes. Alfalfa pellets are ~$14 per 40lbs at the local Tractor Supply.

These are not regular inputs, but tools to save a serious issue, if it occurs.

I assume wood stove pellets contain WOOD... a lot of cellulose... I wonder if they include any additives to reduce soot or some such. I know bacteria that consume (compost) woody items require a good deal of nitrogen for energy... I would rather be adding nitrogen to the compost instead of feeding the bacteria. However I really like the concept of the alfalfa pellets... I know alfalfa meal is great fertilizer, lots of nitrogen, vitamins and an excellent source for many minerals great for plants (excellent for humans and horses too). It never occurred to me to use as worm food, so thanks for mentioning that. We have a farm store just down the road from us... and the price is right. My only concern is that it doesn't get too hot for the worms.... I think I'll drop it into the Vitamix and add the powder to the powdered egg-layer mash and feed it that way. I think this is going to work out rather well for the worms and their castings (and our plants!) Thanks!

I wonder if they include any additives to reduce soot or some such.

No. It's just compacted sawdust. In the pellet stove, it burns very hot, and cleanly, on its own.

My only concern is that it doesn't get too hot for the worms....

This is why I use the stove pellets instead of the alfalfa pellets sometimes. If the bin is too wet, and I add more nitrogen I can be compounding the problem. I don't worry about the fact that it takes nitrogen to break down the pellets. The sawdust simply becomes bedding, something for the worms to swim in. Whatever I add to the bin offers food for the worms but also provides the nitrogen to break down the sawdust. In addition, the sawdust is fluffy. Nice for air circulation, especially good in a bogged down bin.

It only takes a week or two for the sawdust to break down, anyway. For years, we kept pet rats, and every week tossed the used bedding into the worm bin. Every week, there was no sign of the previous week's additions.

I only offer this as additional information. There's no one, single way to do this.

Every now and then I collect used bedding from Petsmart. I mean from small animals like hamsters and the like. At one time they were using something like shredded egg carton material which was really great and at other times saw dust pellets. There were uneaten food mixed in that the animals spilled so this is good for the worms too. Some people are concerned about the urine mixed into this bedding but if your bin is outside it doesn't matter and it's been OK with my worms so far. I added only to half of the bin at a time, justin case.

So, if you don't want to shred paper/cardboard, go to Petsmart. They changed bedding in their cages once a week.

Every now and then I collect used bedding from Petsmart.

Excellent idea.

bah! just checked the pantry and I don't have cornmeal, I have corn starch. Do y'all think that would work the same?

Oh, no - I cannot imagine it would! Cornstarch is used with a little water to make a paste to thicken things like pies or gravy. Seems it would be a gummy mess used as a paste. Add more water & it dissolves completely; seems like it would be useless then. Corn MEAL does not dissolve like the starch. They are certainly not interchangeable in cooking but maybe someone wiser than I knows better about how it would work for worms.

Do y'all think that would work the same?

Not the same, specifically, but it's not bad, and worms love it. The worms will eat the little bits of dirt that the cornstarch is dissolved in.

I have one bin that gets fed mostly bean cooking water and leftover dabs of cornstarch-and-water from making gravy. The worms there are so fat!!

priswell thanks for the advice - I'll give the cornstarch a try! wasn't loving needing to make a trip to the grocery store just for cornmeal (that I wouldn't use for anything else) :) I like to make sure the worms use only what's in the house lol!

I may be the odd ball here but I refuse to "buy worm food", period.

I have more than enuff to recycle they won't starve. Plus I thought it was all about recycling, oh well.

You can buy compost for less than you can "worm food" and it's a lot less work - or maybe just feed em dollar bills?

You are NOT an oddball in my book, gumby! I was thinking exactly the same thing, but was too chicken to say so!! I agree I have plenty to feed my worms w/o buying "supplements" as if they were livestock I eventually was going to eat. :-) Now, maybe if I were running a big worm farming production and selling my surplus worms... But even then, I am pretty sure I could manage to acquire free food for them.

does anyone add manure to their bins? (or is this an entirely different thread?)...aged manure vs. new manure, etc. I have a goat farm close by and they are pretty easy going about coming by to pick up a bucket of goat manure pellets. Also some horse farms. I'm thinking of aging the manure in buckets in my yard for my outdoor compost pile, so wondering if it's beneficial at all for the worms!

What and how one feeds their worms I suspect depends upon the goals and the scale. A worm breeder I would think is looking to maximize worm population... worms are mostly protein, therefore they are looking for a balance of high protein sources at the cheapest prices. Someone selling worms for fishing will not only desire a prolific population but also faster growth and maximizing the number of large fat worms... I suspect they might be concerned with quality of protein sources and likely fat and carbohydrate levels? Those of us trying to produce the best complete castings fertilizer (our own personal goal is using it as the sole fertilizer for the unique planted items we sell at art/craft fairs... they need to be beautiful, strong and healthy and remain so for our customers who will just be required to water the plants) so we need to intentionally add additional minerals from many sources otherwise it simply won't be in the castings.

At the other end of the spectrum, if all you want is to recycle trash and end up with some decomposing matter to dump into a garden and are not concerned with heavy metal content, toxins leached from non compostables, etc and yield is not really a concern then yes, I suppose it need not be anymore complicated than a big pile to dump stuff in and need not require much effort at all... a simple hole/pile resembling a landfill with worms in it is good for recycling and certainly the most economical choice of all. Everyone has their own goals in mind and decides how best to achieve them.

gumby, I, too, only feed stuff that would otherwise get thrown away. For my purposes, buying stuff to feed the worms or putting in food that could be eaten by humans defeats the purpose.

To be clear, I only feed my worms natural organic worm food, much like mother nature has for hundreds of thousands of years.

Trash, as I know it, does not and will not decompose. Feeding worms trash would be a reason to add supplements.

I am reasonably certain the natural organic worm food does contain the nutrients and minerals required by my plants and likely your plants also. This completes the circle of life.

Agreed, gumby. There's no need for anyone to imply that those of us who don't purchase worm food have landfill for worm bins.

This is getting ridiculous... read simply the words without prejudice... for some people it is only about recycling and their needs are not great and they don't have a business that may have specific requirements. It is fine to put in whatever you wish, one may choose to select or not, choose to prepare (shred, freeze, juice, blend, etc) or not.... these are personal choices people make to speed up the process or not... have an indoor bin or a windrow or just a large pile outside, etc... whatever, these are all personal choices. (BTW, we have an open to the public compost facility where city-wide yard waste is just dumped and the description of it is no different than what one poster here had just described above and it is filled with composting materials in all stages of decomposition depending on where you choose to take it from and often filled with worms and other composting creatures... we also have a landfill that has less restrictions as to what goes in and it too has composted areas with worms and that compost can also be used except in the back of my mind there is the question of what possible heavy metals and leached toxins might be in that compost and at what levels... however this is likely not an issue for flower gardens and lawns. There is a whole "SPECTRUM" of possibilities of what people raising worms choose to do. A spectrum refers to extremes AND everything in between... perhaps some here failed to focus on the meaning of the word spectrum and instead chose to feel insulted by the extreme.) Some people's goals are simply for enriching the garden soil, some have goals for the actual worms themselves (maybe its about size or numbers of worms), some people are trying to re-sale product and have quality concerns (referencing either the vermicompost and/or the worms)... bottom line is people who are vermicomposting can have many different goals for the worms and the resulting compost. Some of us may have quantity requirements (for worms and/or compost) some do not. If this forum is solely for kitchen scrap recyclers then I apologize for intruding as I thought this was a more general vermicomposting forum inclusive of all vermicomposters. I'm attempting to learn more about the science and variations on novel approaches with a personal focus being on our plant sales for this coming summer and thus I'm looking for ways trying to create a complete fertilizer that will be slow releasing and cheap (as well as ramping up production). I actually have some knowledge about the plants we are selling and their requirements. My personal reasoning here is two-fold: first is minerals cannot be in the final compost if it isn't already there in the materials going into the bin and the quantities and ratios should logically resemble somewhat the direct proportions to the starting materials; second, I would have to purchase fertilizer (organic or otherwise) anyway if my resulting compost lacked or was insufficient in quantities therefore why not add it to the worm bin if I can't get it from the other totally free materials found in the kitchen? Other aspects to consider is chelation of secondary and even tertiary nutrients like calcium, iron, magnesium for adsorption by the plants... if its not accessible to the plant then it might as well not be in the compost. The bin is a food web in which all its inhabitants should be healthy... so perhaps molasses to goose the bacteria might speed things up? even if one actually had to purchase a bottle of it, it might actually be a wise thing in some circumstances. Yes, free is good but sometimes spending a little may achieve a lot in results in quality or quantity and thus be worth exploring in an attempt achieve one's goals. Bottom line here is we all have different philosophies and goals in mind and for methods on how to achieve them or am I wrong here? If this is just a kitchen scrap recycling forum for composting using worms then I should not be here as that scope is too narrow for my purposes.

well said monomer - I really appreciate the full spectrum and all the information on the forums in general and this thread in particular has been really interesting. :)

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to heed your own advise.

To wit:

Begin here - <simply read simply the words without prejudice... >.

<these are personal choices people make >.

<There is a whole "SPECTRUM" of possibilities of what people raising worms choose to do.>.

<perhaps some here failed to focus on the meaning of the word spectrum and instead chose to feel insulted> by someone elses opinion.

<Yes, free is good > and it is allowed.

<Bottom line here is we all have different philosophies >.

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to heed your own advise today, tomorrow, and the days that follow.

Let me also say "I have never learned a thing from someone who always agrees with me" - Gumby said it.

Peace

Amen

Whew! I was starting to think maybe I'd have to click the "Stop notifications of new comments on this discussion" in my e-mail fro Houzz! ;-)

When I want to harvest worms from a bin.... some canned pumpkin. My worms love it. This is not an everyday food source though. Feed them your veggie scraps for everyday.

priswell... Thank you soooo much, that tip on alfalfa was great! On Thursday I went down to the local feed store and perused the horse feed aisle. I found alfalfa pellets @ $14 for 40lbs but saw alfalfa cubes on sale for $9 for a 40lbs bag. Got it. Yesterday after juicing, I just added my powdered-up layer mash to the wet pulp to suck up some excess moisture and then I opened the bag of alfalfa cubes (a strong scent of fresh hay filled the room... it really smells good) put just seven cubes (approx 1.5"x1.5" cubes) into the Vitamix, which didn't work so well because there just wasn't the weight of grains and so lacking sufficient gravity to get the proper flow going in the blender I ended up having to force the cubes into the blades (what a mess). However I finally did get it all powdered-up and added it to the pulp and immediately it suck up all the moisture and then some... the mix went from being slightly wet to grainy dry. I actually had to add a cup of milk to loosen it back up some. NOW, I see why you mention using it to adjust the moisture level in the bin... excellent tip. Depending upon where you're reading on the internet (the various horse feeding websites) "they" say alfalfa can absorb anywhere from 3X to 10X its volume in moisture... (some owners soak these cubes before feeding to their horses). Also the bag says not LESS than 17% protein which should work out to around 2.5-3% nitrogen... that's a lot... no wonder some people use this stuff as fertilizer in their gardens. I also read its C:N ratio is 24:1 which I think is nearly ideal for composting purposes. Also I added blackstrap molasses to my mix (been doing that for a while now without issue) and some powdered milk... That stuff is rather expensive as it works out to about $1 per quart (for the small size box)... it puts a LOT of calcium into the mix but still a bit pricey for me. In the end I got about three 8-10lbs bags of this mix into the freezer and will thaw and feed approx. one bag every 3-4 days. Even including our regular additions of kitchen scraps I'm beginning to fall behind on the feeding loads... these worms are voracious (not to mention how their numbers have just multiplied like crazy recently... honestly this increase in appetite has taken me by surprise). During my stroll down the horse feed aisle I spotted beet pulp (on sale $10 for 50lbs) and dried molasses called "sweet feed" @ $18 for a 50lbs bag of the premium (premium because of the underlying forage the molasses is sprayed onto is suppose to be the really good stuff horse-wise... I've read that cheaper stuff can be found for as little as $4 for 50lbs). 50lbs of any of this stuff will last me a couple years, so it is really cheap to feed through the winter months. I didn't put aside nearly enough pre-composted leaves for this winter and have been forced into giving the worms a lot of shredded cardboard lately, this new found source of nutrients (alfalfa) with an ideal C:N ratio (not to mention all the minerals and vitamins it contains) is just the ticket to get the bins through the winter until the snow and ice outside melts and the outdoor composting piles thaw so I again have access to the composting leaves... plus I'll now be able to keep up with the numbers of new worms provided I have bin space to hold them all. I really need to start a couple new bins... REALLY

I have recently noticed my worms getting fatter. I had taken maybe 50 worms give or take a couple dozen and started and new 10 gal rubberized bin. I have been feeding them ground oatmeal and cornmeal maybe for a bout a month now. Its quite noticable the size difference in these worms. Today I made up another batch of oatmeal , cornmeal and some steel oats that I didnt like . I used a coffee grinder to grind it up, works well. I keep a few layers of damp newspaper on top and the worms always seem to be right there when I check.

The secret to large worms is plenty of space. This is how the bait growers raise big worms. Space is way more important than the food source. You mentioned 50 worms in a 10 gallon tote. That is giving your worms the extra space they need to get big.

Iowa-- What you say makes sense as less worms may be able to eat more. Still on the other hand, my 360 guide book and a couple places online agree on the issue of making worms fatter has to do with cornmeal and grainfed products. So I can see truth on both sides of the coin.

I didn't mean to imply that grain does not fatten worms. It is a great protein source. My comment was that all things being equal. .. space is important if you want to grow large worms. If your worms are over-crowded all the grain in the world won't fatten them up.

@priswell - thank you for the tip on cornmeal 'pockets'! I put a pocket of cornmeal mixed with water into one of my bins 3 days ago. I've peeked at it and they stayed way away for 2.5 days. This afternoon it was like a mosh pit of worms swarming the cornmeal. maybe it had to reach the right temperature or conditions, but they are loving it. Just checked again before writing this and there's a lineup to get into the cornmeal pocket ;)