I'm at it again! Please review my plan.
I remodeled the kitchen in my home about 5 years ago, and
spent almost a year on the GW forum during the planning stage. I learned so
much, got some great ideas and inspiration, and as a result I avoided a lot of
mistakes and ended up with a very functional space that my whole family loves! So now I’m back looking for your help again to “fix” the kitchen in our
lakefront vacation/rental house - possibly our soon to be part-time retirement
home. I’ve been thinking about this project for a LONG time- since we bought the
house almost 25 years ago. It’s a 3-bedroom 2-bath brick rancher (sleeps 9 people max)
with 8 ft ceilings.
There are many things I hate about the current kitchen – it
has 4 inch ceramic tile counters, almost no drawers, it’s a large square with
dead space in the middle, the refrigerator wall blocks the lake view, and the
exterior door cuts into the counter area on one end of the main counter run –
very awkward! I have struggled to find layout that would turn this into a
functional and efficient space with views of the lake. I posted some layouts
here a few times over the years but never settled on anything that felt
“right”. But now I’ve decided it’s time to take action – can’t live with the
ceramic counters anymore and the appliances are shot, the flooring is shot,
everything needs to be replaced. Good news is that DH says none of the interior
walls are load bearing and I can move or eliminate them if I want to - but
because it’s a brick exterior, moving doors and windows is not an option. We
plan to replace all of the flooring in the living area at the same time so we
can use the same flooring throughout.
Here is the current layout and my proposed layout. I welcome
everyone’s comments and suggestions. This will not be a big budget, high-end
remodel. Most DIY and I’m thinking Ikea/Barker/BB cabinets. I have a white GE smoothtop
range that I bought used and plan to keep. New refrigerator, microwave (most
likely OTR), dishwasher – probably all white to match the range. I “think” I
want white cabinets or at least white uppers. The existing pantry is actually
an owner’s closet that is not be accessible to renters and we want to still have
that option, but possibly smaller. The kitchen faces north – to the road - the
lake is on the south side and there are 6 double hung windows on that south wall
of the living room.
Here's the current layout followed by the proposed. I pushed the old refrigerator wall back into the living area a little bit. I don't think we need seating at the counter where the prep sink is and I'm afraid it will cut too much into the living room area, but at least it opens the kitchen to the lake view. The sink under the window would be a supersingle with the offset drain and a single trash pullout on the left side.
Please let me hear your comments, concerns, suggestions!
Comments (20)
Jillius
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agonumbersjunkie
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoJillius - Here is a larger area of the
plan. There are three bedrooms down the hall to the right (2 not shown), a hall
bathroom (door not shown), and a portion of
the master bath is between the hall bath and the porch so the hall bath has no
window. The basement is walk-out on the lake side.We have talked
about moving the built-in bookcases from the wall next to the FP and putting
them where the TV cabinet is now. Its not a great set-up as is because people
going in/out on the lake side are always walking right in front of anyone
watching TV or playing video games there. We have a full size sofa facing the
TV and a loveseat up against the windows. The table by the FP works well as a
laptop table, game/puzzle table. It has drop leafs so its not very deep with on
side down.The dining room
does not feel tight at all. i think the furniture I show in the plan is
oversized compared to what we have. I actually thought about stealing some room
from that space for the kitchen, but then the window in the DR would be
off-center.I don't think we
want to deal with adding windows. I think they would look funny because we
would not have the brick ledge below them, and also we could not match the
existing windows so that would look strange. We were, however, thinking about
replacing the kitchen door with a full glass door or a 2/3 glass door to get
more light. We are also considering a solartube to get more light in the
kitchen.Hope this info
helps!
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Comments (3)Thank you for telling me! I didn't realize the images I posted were only visible to myself. I've created a new post with drawings on a different server. Here is a link that might be useful: Updated thread with working graphics...See MorePlease review/critique my floor plan!!
Comments (23)Wow MrsPete thats a lot to think about! I was not expecting to have to request so many changes to this plan. Considering we hired a professional designer to do the plan. I will do my best to address all the issues mentioned. Again thanks for everyone who has chimed in.. Great point on the double entry doors. I did not even think about turning the lights on. It looks like the master bathroom has double entry doors too. I am not sure I want to shut two doors every time I go in the bathroom. So if we flip the washer and dryer to the kitchen wall and make it come off the mudroom. What about the door entry from the mudroom ? Looks like the washer and dryer would hang out some past the doors edge. But I think this may be ok if they are placed on down the wall verses right beside the door. With the fridge I actually like it where it is for the most part. I like that when you look back towards the kitchen from great room, you dont really see the fridge. But this is also one thing I told the wife she could make the call on the layout of the kitchen. Also as far as all the plumbing goes I will be running everything. I have done a few houses that are rental properties and have all the tools to run pex and the drains. Ok, so maybe we need to make plans to eliminate a bathroom and add on for the pool area. When you say you would build one nice bath between the two bedrooms and having into opening into the hallway for a guest bath, do you mean the bath will have 3 entry doors, 2 from bedrooms and 1 in hallway? It seems like this would also put it really close to the half bath. Also what are the thoughts on a jack and jill? On the closets this is one thing I requested. I want some space for myself!! Otherwise the wife will take it over! I thought the divider wall would actually give you a little more room to hang things also. I do like the idea of putting the shower in the corner and moving the toilet. But at the same time I like the privacy of it being on the outside wall away from everything else. With the windows in the closets I am not sure what to do on this. I do agree its not the best scenario. I also do not know if I want a large window in the toilet room. I know the designer said he had a very difficult time making the windows work on the front of the house. We do plan to make changes to the doors leading out to the porch. I am concerned about furniture placement with all those doors. Also if your looking outside from the great room who wants to see the backs of outdoor furniture? I am kinda at a loss on how that will look. You all have been a great help so far, I am sure we will get this all worked up and build pics will be coming before you know it. I will also try to attach some pics that I gave the designer for ideas on what the wife and I liked. We basically gave him some pictures and he had us fill out a 3 page questionnaire....See MorePlease Review my House Plans :)
Comments (69)It looks fine. However, you've lost some of the important features of the plan I proposed, not that I'm surprised or offended. I still recommend increasing the length and width of the kitchen island and allowing 42" of clearance at the counters instead of 48" but that is just my personal preference although it has worked well in a lot of kitchens so far. I would use 48" only where an oven opens toward an island. I intentionally put the refrigerator out of the view of the living room and intended that corner to have wrap around windows above the sink. That requires a longer travel distance from the breakfast table to the refrigerator but a shorter distance from the dining table. I know it is easier to feed children in the immediate vicinity of the kitchen but you have invested in a formal dining room and because I have raised three kids I can tell you that it will serve your children well to eat there as often as possible when they are old enough to stay in a chair, you know, table manners, may I be excused, etc. It is one of the few times in their life when you can hold their attention face to face so it is really important to do it. When I built this plan before the family had no interest in a breakfast table; they always use the dining room but their kids are high school age. At any rate, the window at the sink should be a wider awning type window (operated with a crank) instead of the tiny double-hung shown on the elevation drawing which will be more difficult, even dangerous, to lift open. I would get the stove out of the corner and allow more counter space between it and the sink. Unless you buy special cabinets that allow a stove to fit properly in this configuration it will result in awkward alignments of upper cabinets, lower cabinets, the stove, the hood. I've only seen it done well with high end cabinets. I wouldn't use bi-fold doors in a kitchen; they don't work well and get beat up fast. You'll probably have to replace them in a few years. Regarding windows, don't jamb a pair of windows together with those narrow little trim strips from the manufacturer; put two or three studs and sheathing between them so trim can be put there. The fake shutters are a waste of money because they add nothing to this kind house IMHO. The windows in upstairs bedrooms that are narrow in order to miss the roof below would be more attractive and functional if they were awning windows that match the size and placement of the upper sash of the double-hungs around the corner. Of course, this only works if there is another window that meets the emergency escape requirement. To me the 4 over 4 lights look inappropriate on full sized double hung windows unless they are only 24" wide. I would use 6 over 1 which saves the cost of one muntin per window and gives a nice horizontal visual element to the paired windows. At the back side windows I would at least add one vertical muntin to the upper sash. Sometimes cottage style windows (upper sash shorter than the lower sash) are slightly cheaper than equal size sash windows for the same opening dimensions (at least it's true for Andersen windows). I would add a window to the fake dormer. There should also be windows in the main roof gable ends. It might also look better if the front wall was continuous with the dormer wall and there was no pent-roof (that little roof eave/gutter that sticks out below the dormer. This is a tough detail to pull off and it appears that your designer doesn't have clue about how to do it. There's something overly restrained about the current gable dormer and it would not cost more to improve it but I do like the shingles. It's a bit odd that the shingles don't continue at the gable ends of the main roof. The upstairs toilet/tub room doors should open in to avoid injury at night and I would put the toilet on the wall that aligns with the study wall below to allow easier construction and better sound isolation from the dining room since that's the room where you are most likely to not want to hear a toilet flush when you have guests. If the ceiling height is 8 ft. then depending on the size of the second floor joists (10" instead of 12" I-joists) the stair might be able to have 14 instead of 15 risers which might help out the upper landing layout. But be careful about floor bounce upstairs. Make sure the plumbing stacks will fit in the first floor walls and allow room for insulation. That's not usually possible with 2x4 studs. Double drywall is also a good idea. I would try to avoid offsetting the center bearing wall at the first floor and would try to keep the symmetry of the central corridor. I've built a similar plan and it became so obvious that the center hall needed to be formal that the contractor persuaded the owner to add arched openings at each end. I don't usually like arched openings in an open plan house but it turned out that he was right....See MorePlease review my renovation plans!
Comments (16)You can slit seed if you want, and if the existing dead grasses are very thick. It'll help with seed-soil contact, although it isn't strictly necessary if you don't wish to. Slit seeders should be set to barely (1/4" or a little less) nick the soil, and won't cause excessive problems with additional weeds. They also disturb the soil too little to cause problems with the biology or structure. The starter is actually going to be an advantage for the new lawn. The September 1 app won't bring much nitrogen to the table as the new roots won't be able to absorb it--but it does add phosphorus, which hangs around indefinitely and waits. By October, the new grass will want a gentle feeding, and starter is on the low end of nitrogen feeding. Doing things perfectly? In addition to the starter, I'd drop Milorganite, soybean meal, or cottonseed meal with the seed (it won't release until 3 weeks later and gives a gentle feed for some months), and then do it again on October 15. That'll give your new lawn a good base of slow and fast nitrogen to grow on. What did I do? I poured on organics during seeding and the first fall at fantastically high rates, but already had a soil that had adjusted to organic feeding and could handle it easily. Development of the new lawn was incredibly fast and strong....See MoreJillius
8 years ago
funkycamper
8 years agoI like the idea of a glass door in the kitchen for the light. I have no idea if this is possible but I would explore whether a single glass door slider can be installed where the door would slide into the wall when the door is open. It would be nice to not deal with the door swing into the kitchen, imho.
How about something like this? Or do you not want such an open kitchen to the living space?
Lavender Lass
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agonumbersjunkie
8 years agofunkycamper
8 years agoI can see you not wanting a slider there if it's your main entry. Do you like people entering directly into your kitchen? Have you considered switching the DR with the kitchen? Or would that be a budget buster? It would bug me to have people entering directly into my kitchen. Especially with such limited view of the other rooms. And while I always prefer a wider aisle, mine are 54", there is so much excess floor space in your kitchen that I think it makes it less efficient and a space waste. Again, imho. We all live a bit different so maybe these things wouldn't bother you. So here's another idea.
I didn't spend much time at this, particularly concerning placement of appliances. I would really rather see the fridge a bit closer to the door for unloading groceries but I also didn't want to put it in the middle of the long stretch of counter breaking it up. But that might also be OK as it would be closer to the dining room table and also define that one side of the kitchen is for prep/cook and the other is for clean-up. Unfortunately, it does put your prep space a bit of a walk from your pantry. However, I really like the coffee bar in that nook. Kinda a mix of good and mediocre ideas, imho, but could be worth tweaking further if you like the concept.
I think I would be inclined to make the door swing the other direction. Would probably need a door-stopper on the floor in front of the cabinets. It just seems backwards to me. Like a strange barrier which doesn't feel welcoming into the home, if that makes any sense.
mama goose_gw zn6OH
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoFor a vacation/rental I like the open feeling of funkycamper's plans. I also agree about the door swing--flipping it would improve flow.
You mentioned making the locked pantry smaller--this plan puts the fridge closer to the sink, and leaves room for a smaller kitchen pantry. The locked closet would be accessed from the bedroom, and if you ever live there full time, it's already a walk-in closet (Hers, with His being the smaller one on the other side of the room ;). I included a rolling cart, which could be stored in the pantry closet, and pulled out if extra prep space is needed. (The cart could be turned 90º, and put at the end of the stove run, for serving space for a buffet.) The wall behind the range could also be a pony wall, if you'd like it more open, and if you don't need storage in upper cabs on that wall.
Jillius
8 years agoBuehl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoJillius
8 years agoHere is a suggestion. I was trying to:
1) Improve the TV situation so people aren't walking in front of the TV to get out.
2) Improve the entrance, so people aren't entering directly into the kitchen.
3) Set it up so that you can be facing the lake views from every room (living, dining, and kitchen).
4) As a bonus, it turned out that it wasn't necessary to reconfigure the pantry/laundry, so I hope saving that money will cover the expense of moving the kitchen plumbing.
The above floor plan is how you will have everything laid out most of the time -- for all situations except during large group meals. In this configuration, you have a nice bit of an entry area (with space for a little entry table if you want -- under the window nearest the front door). And the majority of the dining table seats are facing the lake.
The below floor plan is the same, but in the large-group-meals configuration. The only difference is that it has a leaf added to the dining room table (I'd suggest a stowleaf table to make this a quick and easy transformation) and the table pulled away from the island. The space the dining area has below is identical to the space you currently have for the dining room table, so it should be just as roomy for everyone to sit.
Both versions of this floor plan feature:
- A fridge that is close to the living areas and easily accessible to non-cooks without entering the cook zones.
- No changes in windows/doors.
- Range on an exterior wall for easy venting.
- Counter where you need it -- on both sides of the range, on both sides of the sink, and an especially long stretch between the sink and range (best prep location in the kitchen)
- Only prep areas with views -- there is a window above the main prep counter, and your island has views of the other living areas and the lake
- An island that is a good shape for several people to gather around and work on something together (like kids decorating cookies).
- Lake visible from every single part of the kitchen/dining/living.
- No walkways running through the living room and disrupting games/TV
I am envisioning the TV beside the fireplace like this:
funkycamper
8 years agonumbersjunkie
8 years agoJillius
8 years agoRegarding the lower dining room window, what if you shortened them, and then added flower window boxes under all the windows on the exterior (or at least those on the front) to disguise the new brick filled in at the bottom?
numbersjunkie thanked Jilliusnumbersjunkie
8 years agoLavender Lass
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoHaving the prep sink facing the view and the clean up in front of the window is what you had in the original (revised) plan....
Maybe change fridge/pantry in that plan?
numbersjunkie
8 years ago
Lavender Lass