Organic Way to Fight Fungal Disease??
Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
8 years ago
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jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
strawchicago z5
8 years agoRelated Discussions
Ortho Garden Disease Control (Daconil) ? Organic?
Comments (63)Britt you have distorted Kimm's statement (" If you really have gardened that many years, with a wide variety of plants, you would have had some diseases to deal with, and certainly at least some losses." - my putting part of your statement in bold). Kimm's statement "even a small part of one" does not mean "none - zero". See: http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/small%20part You have taken a statement to an extreme. In debating, there is a name for such a practice. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#newwindow=1&q=trying+to+take+an+argument+to+the+extreme I am reproducing your conclusion here. " Kimm, you should not lie about organic gardening benefits: they are substantial, and can stand on their own. There is no need to make unsubstantiated fantastic clams." A breakdown in logic: at first you bring up the possibility of someone lying: "is a remark that either is a total lie, or indicates that you have just not tried many things. " Then you make the above conclusion statement. ==================================================== In my rose growing years, I (Henry Kuska) grew 1000 roses and I could make the same statement that Kimm made....See Moreorganic prevention and treatment of diseases and pests
Comments (11)Organic gardening methods and products run the gamut between the absolutely useless to the amazingly effective. No one opinion here, or other places is enough information. Only research will give you sound advice on what works and what is a waste of time and money. Many products proffered on the "organic gardener" are sold to the uninformed as miracle products that do nothing except part you from your money, and some can do more harm than good. Here is a piece that I wrote for my blog on how I determine whether or not to try something. Howling at the moon while wearing a tutu and other miracle cures. Before I go on, know that I am fully in favor of natural ways to control diseases and insects or to keep plants healthy and I always like to find ways to substitute such methods for conventional chemicals. That said it also annoys me to see the amount of snake oil sold to the uninformed. So how do I determine if a new miracle product is worth a try? First through my experience and education I look for a reasonable explanation of why it might work. Second I look for independent scientific studies and if I can find more than one or two I look for a consensus. Third I look to other trusted people who have tried the method or product. And fourth because I am in business I look at cost benefit analysis to other methods. This may not be important to someone else, and indeed in my own yard is not a big factor. Lets take three scenarios and see how this works for me. 1. A few people have told me that applying Wilt Pruf periodically before rain will help control Black Spot on roses. My experience and education tell me that there is a reason why this could work. Black Spot is a water transmitted disease, thus if a waxy coating is on the leaf when the spore hits it the hyphae might not be able to grow through it. I checked for scientific studies and can find none for or against this claim. I talked to some people I trust and found that they do believe it is a benefit. Wilt Pruf is expensive, but for reasons not relevant to this writing it was worth a try. I have tried it and believe it does what I have been told. When I tell others of this claim I tell them that I believe it works but that my experience is not by any means scientific. By the way applying any product not for the use intended is against the law so apply Wilt Pruf to deter wilting, as I did, and if it happens to control Black spot then all is good. 2. I hear that Corn gluten is a good pre-emergence weed killer. My experience and education tell me that there is no good reason this will work, but also I know nothing of the theory so have no solid reason why it will not. I checked for research and can find one study from the University of Iowa that claims it works. (Hmm interesting, what do they grow in Iowa?) The majority of studies give no credence to this research. The consensus is that though it has some limited control on some weeds it is a poor pre-emergence weed killer. I checked with people who have actually tried it and I gathered from what I heard that the only way this product might work is if they left the unopened bag on the ground, no weeds would grow underneath it. Corn gluten is expensive and I like my wallet full more than I dislike weeds. I have no intention of trying this product unless I hear compelling scientific evidence that I am wrong. 3. I read on the Internet that howling at the moon while wearing a tutu will stop Borers infesting my Pumpkins. Through my education and experience I see no reasonable reason why this would work and can think of many reasons why it won't. I checked for scientific studies and surprisingly enough could find none. I asked people I trusted and they are now inquiring about having me committed. I don't think that tutus are very expensive so cost is not a factor. Once again there is no reason to try this method except that it might annoy my neighbor who is a perpetual pain in the but. So in conclusion do your research before spending your hard earned cash on the newest miracle product. I may have posted this already, but a search did not find it so forgive me if you have seen it already....See MoreFighting disease w Myccorhizae, etc
Comments (12)Myccorhizae Fungi can help your plant's roots take up nurtrients more effectively, which can produce a more healthy plant, but they don't really fight disease organism directly. There are other beneficial soil bacterial and fungi that will help fight disease causing microbes in the soil. In the container forum, I posted a comment about some research I read about how Myccorhizae fungi inoculation could help container plants being grown for nurseries to better cope with high summer soil temps. Toward the end of the thread, Raybo and I began talking about other microbial inoculants that were more what you are talking about with fighting off diseases. Raybo is having problems with Tomato Russet Mites killing all of his tomatoes growing in self-watering containers. He is trying to plant a late season crop of tomatoes and has declared war on these noxious little mites. In desperation, he is inoculating the soil in his planters with every organic solution he could find. I was looking for a Mycrorhizal fungi inoculant to use on my container plants, but could not find one for sale in small quantities. Raybo recommended a product called MycoGrow Soluble from Fungi Perfecti, which I ordered. It was only $8.50 including shipping for enough to inoculate 125Â250 plants covering approximately 250 square feet. MycoGrow Soluble contains several strains of both Endomycorrhizal and Ectomycorrhizal fungi that will help the roots of plants to function more effectively. It also contains more than 20 different other fungi and bacterial inoculants that help fight disease causing microbes and fix atmospheric nitrogen in the soil. Another product we discussed in that thread was one called Biotamax, which does not contain Mycorrhizal fungi and instead inoculates your soil with beneficial microbes similar to the non-mycorrhizal strains in MycoGrow. Its a long thread with several links to research articles on the benefits on Myccorhizal fungi. I was really interested in the results of this research. They found that Myccorhizal fungi thrived in the high soil temps in containers, but organic time release fertilizers did not work well because the high soil temps prevented soil microbes from properly breaking down organic fertilizers. The research at Texas A&M found that Osmocote time released inorganic fertilizer combined with a Mycorrhizal inoculant helped container plants to grow 3 to 5 times better. While I think that organic methods are by far the best option for growing plants in the ground, a hybrid approach may work better for containers because of the high soil temps that kill many beneficial soil microbes. Greg Here is a link that might be useful: Mycorrhizal fungi helps plants survive high temps in containers...See MoreOrganic disease control methods?
Comments (19)Look, the most likely diseases in this area to cause you any significant problems are fungal or bacterial diseases of foliage. You should first and foremost use good cultural practices to try to minimize the occurrence/impact of these diseases, i.e. mulch, grow resistent varieties, allow for adequate air flow, keep the plants otherwise healthy etc. Beyond that, the most common non-organic way to treat for these diseases is to spray a fungicide like daconil. There are, however, some organic fungicide choices. Both copper and sulphur sprays can be used as organic fungicides, but they have downsides. I've read of some decent results in using the broad-spectrum organic pesticide neem as a fungicide. There's a newer organic biological fungicide marketed as serenade or something like that which looks like it might be promising. Some people will also talk about spraying everything from milk to compost tea to varying concoctions involving baking soda etc. I have my doubts about these, although spraying compost tea certainly is unlikely to hurt the plant. Likewise, sprinkling cornmeal around your plants is unlikely to hurt. If you're going to grow organically, you need to be able to expect and tolerate some level of unpretty foliage occasionally and you need to not worry so much about "being prepared." Be prepared by building your soil, mulching etc., but don't get all worked up about how you're going to go about treating diseases which may or may not be a problem for you at all....See Morestrawchicago z5
8 years agostrawchicago z5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agostrawchicago z5
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agostrawchicago z5
8 years agoAfter many experiments both with chemicals and organics .. I agree with Kimmsr, the 1st poster in Organic Rose, that healthy soil is the key to healthy roses. When roses are stressed out, be it too much salt in fertilizer, too much acidic rain, or root-damage done by sulfates .. they break out in black spots. But when roses are in a friendly-environment to earthworms and beneficial bacteria that fix nitrogen, they are lush & green and have lots of healthy leaves. Below is Tchaikovsky rose, received from Roses Unlimited, planted end of June. I put lots of organics in the planting hole for earthworms: alfalfa hay (neutral pH), and cracked corn (acidic at pH 4), plus red-lava-rock (pH 8.2) to balance out my pH 7.7 clay. Notice the shiny leaves, and a bud .. I already got one cut-bloom out of Tchaikovsky rose. Picture taken today, July 15, after months of constant-rain:
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Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill CountryOriginal Author