nice! Could work!!

What's beyond the red line?

1. Sorry for skimming, but did anyone bring up making the sink 30" base cabinet, and putting the 15" trash under the sink?

example of trash under sink

I have my 18" trash under my 36" sink base cab. works great for my kitchen.

2. ditto the suggestion above to dead-corner at least one of the corners, to put in much more usable base drawers.

I have 2 corners in my kitchen and am so grateful for dead-cornering one to get an additional 3-drawer base cabinet. I use this drawer so much more than my blind corner.

Amanda

18" DW? (granted less choices, but I wish I did that)

I think you might have missed my questions from earlier.

why do you not want to move things around if it would add storage and make your space more efficient? I see you answered this, but can you find out what it might cost to move them?

Do you have a separate dining room and where is it?

would you consider opening the wall between kitchen and living room?

is this your only eating area and if not would you consider giving up the table in here for maybe a counter height dining bar area?

Sorry I couldn't get to it today but I have to get a drawing for a show finished and then my builder wanted me to finalize a few things today.

Also there are other solutions other than just a super susan which opens up more cabinet space.

this is what I have in my blind corner and it works great. I have my oversized cuisenart on it and a large can opener and some seldom used items. What's great about this is it leaves one side to put a regular cabinet in. You use it with an 42" corner base.

Rev a Shelf

I like both of Mama Goose's plans. If it were my kitchen, I'd try to do what's possible to have the first plan with that long, luscious expanse of counter to work on. And in front of a window to boot. Plumbing costs may be reasonable to just change the location a few feet. Especially if you have a crawl space or basement underneath. I would definitely get an estimate before you nix moving appliances.

I would love to hear the answers to cpartist's questions. I would also like to see a floor plan of the entire floor the kitchen is on. There might be other good options but we need more info.

Would you be able and willing to move the doorway to the living room toward the patio door/ across from the laundry door? Are you interested in losing room for a table to counter seating for 2-3 to gain ~ 5 more feet of linear wall space on the perimeter?

Thanks,fc, that's what I was thinking--prepping in front of the window.

Ilyse, I used a couple of above suggestions for this plan, with your sink in original location, and as little 'shake-up' as possible. The left side is a 42" corner unit, with 2" filler, DW, then 36" sink base, which almost centers it on the window. You can put a trash pullout in the 12" cabinet, or have trash under the sink, and have another pullout in the 12" cab (for spices, oils, cooking utensils). There's an extra 1.75" on that wall--you'll need filler between the 12" cab and the corner unit. (Or pull the right side cabs out from the wall 1.75".) You could add the 1.75" to the filler beside the DW, but your sink will be more off center. **Another solution, which is a real work-around that I used, and you might consider to maximize storage is: Put .75" filler between the left corner unit and the DW, and route finger pulls in the cabinet door on the left--no hardware sticking out to obstruct DW door. That leaves you 3" to increase the 12" cabinet to 15", but leaves no wiggle room. At all.

I left the super susan in the right corner, with a 36" drawer base--you could do another 42" corner unit, and make the drawer base 30", and the 12 or 15" cabinet on the top wall becomes 24 or 27". I increased the end cabinet to 27".

I've included wall measurements, and in ( ) the actual length of the runs. The fridge has an enclosure--without the enclosure the run is 90". Your kitchen has struck a chord with me because I faced several of the same obstacles. I'm very happy with the result--still love walking into my kitchen every day.

Ok. I get not wanting to see the fridge from the DR. I felt the same way during my planning. By sharing a drawing of the kitchen and surrounding rooms, people were able to help me identify a place where I could create a niche for it. If I hadn't shared that drawing, my fridge would still be in the kitchen partially blocking a view window. Your drawing doesn't have to be exactly to scale.

I have seen people here improve upon architect and KD designed spaces.

Put a door between the living room and kitchen. And note that I'm not including a 'winky/smiley' in this suggestion.

I always think that if a home's floorplan is amenable to a way of closing off rooms for those times you might want to separate spaces, it's a good thing to do. Those French doors are lovely. If you can do something like that, go for it. I would either do sliders or, if you use regular swinging French doors, have a floor or ceiling latch so you can close and secure just one door at a time. If you use swinging doors, you will need to consider furniture placement in the dining room to allow for the swing and it will limit what you can place on those short walls. If space is limited, the extra expense for sliders would be very worth it, imho.

If you did the French doors, appliance placement will be less of an issue as you could always hide the range or fridge behind a door when entertaining. If budget is an issue, I would personally go with less expensive finishes in the kitchen in order to get the doors.

The last plans that I posted, with the sink in front of the window, would look like the pic you posted of the view through the French doors--cabinets on each side of the laundry/mudroom door. Unless you were standing in the middle of the LR/kit door opening. I would not give up the 4' stretch of prep space between the range and sink, just to hide the range from that one vantage point. Editing to add: You could move the range toward the sink wall 12", and still have 36" of prep space, but the drawers would be only 24" wide. However, you could make up the loss by having wider drawers on the other side. So, maybe keep the dishes in the 24" drawers, and pots and pans in the wider drawers beside the mudroom door.

I love the idea of French doors!

I didn't move the sink. Yes you'll see a bit of the range from the other room but it gives you a nice large run of prep space, a 36" wide pantry and a regular sized refrigerator. Have pullouts in the pantry and you'll be able to have tons in there.

In a small kitchen that needs more counter and storage space, I would suggest a range. Your choice should not be based on fashion but on what is practical for your space. About the only place you have for a separate oven is in your pantry space. You will lose storage and mess up the aesthetics from the DR view.

I wouldn't use any form of the word 'fashion' to describe my range. ;)

Do you always have your table centered in the room, or is it pushed into the corner until you need more seating? I tried a plan with your table drawn as 54" diameter (same size as mine), and m/l centered between the three doors.

From the measurements provided, I think you have 53.5" between the bottom wall and the mudroom door--is that correct? You could have 48" of shallow pantry in that corner, 12" deep, or 18" bases with 12" uppers. The upper cabinets could sit on the counter, or be mounted at standard height so that you can use the counter for serving.

My kids tell me that at my age, I should be doing puzzles to ward off AD, so I also drew a rough elevation, with the corner susan in the top right, then 24" drawer base, then the range, which is now directly across from the fridge, and more hidden from the LR sight line. The last cabinet on the end is a 36" drawer base, but it occurred to me that if you can eke another ½" out of the door trim, you could have a 42" drawer base. I'd go for it, for another 6" of cabinet space, upper and lower, but since the door is seen from the LR, you might not care for the idea. I should have verified before, but were your measurements to the door trim (if doors are trimmed/cased), or to the actual opening? It doesn't matter unless you to decide to go for the 42" cabinets, since there is extra space between the cabinets and the door on each side. On the opposite wall, the drawer base beside the fridge can go from 18" to 15", if there is a conflict. (Each square = 6")

Sorry to hear you have back problems. That is a valid reason for consideration a wall oven. Although I think you should assess how you cook. Most of my cooking is on the cook-top so I don't use my oven daily. If you cook in a similar way, a range may still work for you. Obviously, only you can answer that.

Just a heads-up, OTR (over the range) microwaves (with or without convection) that have a fan in them usually don't work as well as a separate hood for clearing the steam and smoke. They also tend to be a lot noisier. I used to not think this was a big deal until I learned how much cleaner your kitchen and, really, your whole house stays if you use your fan regularly. It makes a big difference to not have greasy-steam floating through your house getting on surfaces and upholstery. If you're like most of us, if it's noisier you won't use the fan as much as you should.

With that said, most of us have to make some compromises with our kitchen design. Especially when dealing with a small space. An OTR micro-convention/fan might end up being the best option for you but it's better to know the pluses and minuses of a decision before you make it, right?

Whatever you do, I hope you'll get a fan that vents to the outside. Recirculating fans really aren't worth much.

Let us know how your KD appointment goes. Best wishes.

good luck with the KD. I think you have some very good choices. Are you married to your table? It really takes up a lot of room in the kitchen. :)

Oh and if you made the refrigerator a 30" you could put in a 15" wide drawer for silverware.

I really like MamaGoose's latest plan! It's very nice :)

This is a bit of an off the wall, crazy version of the plan...but you never know what might spark an idea. It does get rid of potentially awkward corner storage...and cuts down a bit on the walking back and forth in the work area.

It puts range between fridge and wall oven/microwave combo, leaving storage on each side of range. Sink, dishwasher and garbage are on an island (more like a peninsula) but not attached to wall, so not up against window.

Also, I took out slider (may not be possible) but gives you more space for a corner banquette with patio door.

Back (left) wall becomes picture wall and room for a plant. It is the Gardenweb, right?

I would not do over the range especially if you have a bad back. that is advice actually from my pt person since I suffer with a bad back. How about putting it in the pantry?

I have an antique pedestal table that was given to me by my mother. I've
had it longer than I've had my children--it would take a lot of
persuasion for me to consider replacing it. :)

Your back issue is
definitely a reason to consider a separate cooktop and oven, especially
since you currently have them. Do you need a 27" oven? This is a quick
cut & paste of my previous plan, with 24" oven. I
couldn't bring myself to draw a 30" oven up against the cooktop, but the
oven cabinet could be increased to 27" or 30", and both 24" drawer bases
could increase to 27" or 30". The drawers below the
cooktop are 42", but could be smaller if adjacent drawers increase--just depends on how important the symmetry is
to you. I'm trying to keep the 36" stretch of prep space, but I have a
feeling you don't want to see the oven from the LR, so I put a lovely
baked chicken in there to help you imagine this plan.

I love my trash pullout, and we
all just want to help you find the best location for yours. There--I think I
tied that together nicely. ;)

NKBA suggests 12" minimum, but your local code will rule. If it's 12" you can move the cooktop another 6", and make the drawers on the end wider. Haven't thought about symmetry around hood, yet.

This is the best I can think of to balance a 24" oven. Hood area with 12" between cooktop and 24" oven. Add in hardware, and it might be a little too wacky.

With the 24", 30", and 36" drawers, and cabinets above the oven, would you need a pantry on that side? BTW, I drew all your uppers at 42" to maximize storage--what is the ceiling height?

I can't come up with better ideas for your space than Mama Goose but I wanted to comment further about the back issue. There was a big discussion about this on a recent thread. It is healthier for our backs to squat, not stoop. In fact, stooping is rather bad for your back. That is if you and I are thinking the same thing when we use the word stoop. Just wanted to throw that out there if it's helpful.

funkycamper, does that mean we should all be cooking over a campfire? ;)

Ilyse, here's the KD's plan you like, but it has a range. And below it is one that I posted previously, altered to include a wall oven and pantry at the end. If you keep the 36" corner susan, 30" cooktop, 15" cabinet (I wouldn't go narrower for drawers), and 27" wall oven, there are 23.5" left for a pantry. If you do a 24" wall oven, with a 12" cabinet between the cooktop and oven, then there are 29.5" left for a pantry. I don't know the sizes that pantry cabinets are available. With a wall oven, I don't think there's room for a small cabinet with counter at the end.

Yes, I think you are right, I think I really must do the stove and just squat use the knees a bit. I can go for the convection/microwave above. If I must clean an oven, can sit. Does anyone know if you can bake well in those microwave/convections - like 425 degrees? We're seeing the KD tomorrow morning, maybe I can go over to local appliance store and start looking for ideas.

Enjoy your meeting, and BTW, I always recommend that you don't tell the KD you've been to GW--let him think you came up with all this good stuff on your own. ;)

Not to throw a wrench in the wall oven or not issue....but I love my wall oven! I'm going to be replacing the cooktop with a range, so we'll have two ovens. Lower oven better for broiling and meats, but wall oven is wonderful for baking :)

Um I never leave my oven open and have had no problems? Was I supposed to leave it open?

My mom always says to leave it open a little. Maybe that's with older ovens?

For my GE Cafe the oven door is supposed to be kept closed for broiling. I suspect that rule is oven specific and so wouldn't be the same for all.