If the slope gets plenty sun, phlox subulata is a good choice.

Thanks. I'd prefer something less floral and more formal looking.

Pachysandra if shady; Cotoneaster dammeri if sunny.

If sunny, how about creeping sedum? Sweet woodruff? Good ol' vinca? Chrysogonum is pretty also, but not evergreen, I think. Junipers?

How big is the slope? How much sun? Dry or moist?

It's dry until you get to one spot on the bottom, which might have a spring under it. It gets full sun. It's not terribly steep, but enough so that mowing would be hard.

I was seeing sedges as a great answer too. They come in all lengths and textures, long , thin, lacy, short, fat, light green, dark, glaucous, frosty white , orangey. Xeric, mesic and darn right swamp loving. some are gunning and some are clumping.

[https://www.houzz.com/magazine/meet-a-lawn-alternative-that-works-wonders-stsetivw-vs~21227186[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/meet-a-lawn-alternative-that-works-wonders-stsetivw-vs~21227186)

http://www.prairienursery.com/store/native-sedges#.VV-2IGBGj8t

Here is a picture of Berkely sedge used in a lawn in Austin Texas. I love the texture of it. Hardy in Z4 - 10

http://www.penick.net/digging/?p=11800

picture from link below... Carex divulsa used on a shaded slope. I am looking to get a wad of these for treatment in some shade on my land.

https://www.anniesannuals.com/plants/view/?id=208

Not quite sure whether these slopes run along the *street* on each side of your driveway, or on the actual sides of the *driveway*. Just remember to consider mature heights and sightlines. I speak from (sometimes scary!) experience with having a driveway on a busy street in a blind curve that has terrible sightlines. Creeping sedum for my slopes! :)

I'll take a photo during the day tomorrow, but these are hills on either side of our driveway, which is in the middle of a cul-de-sac, and go up from the street to our treeline, which is heavily wooded and continues back into our property. The mature heights and sightlines are important here, partly because on one side of each hill is the lawn of our neighbors.

Those grasses are absolutely stunning. But, I don't feel they are formal enough for the period look we're trying hard to maintain with our house and landscaping.

Would it be weird looking to have ivy on either side until the tree line begins and then, after you'd continue up the driveway there is lawn and there would be no ivy?

I'm about to click on the links included above, thanks for all the help.

texasranger, i wish whatever kind of grass we have would look professional and sophisticated without mowing. My husband planted it and it's a mix of some kind of fescue, blue grass and a few others that supposedly work well in our area. Unfortunately, it's not homogenous looking, some areas are much darker green than others and we have a lot of clover type stuff interspersed with it so it's not uniform grass at all (he planted it a year ago). The hills I'm asking about have a bunch of brush and wild God-know's-what (weeds, unidentified plants) and he'd need to kill all of that on one hill and put down topsoil, seed, etc. The other hill is half grass and half raw dirt (driveway pouring made this area not finished yet). Any suggestions how to get the grass the way you describe it? My poor husband spends so much time on the mower cutting our acres of grass all the time.

Not all sedges and grasses are as informal looking as wantonamara's photo above. Texasranger2 suggested blue fescue which is a grass with stiff bluish foliage that is happy in dry sun once established. It is clumping so you would have to plant it densely and it would have a less smooth appearance, more mounding, but quite evenly growing. It is often used in quite formal gardens, evenly spaced. Little Bluestem, Schizachyrium scoparium, is a taller grass( 2' IME), quite stiff, with lovely reddish fall color. It grows in our sandy full sun field as well as in highway cloverleafs, so is fine with dry conditions. Buffalo grass, Bouteloua dactyloides, is a short grass (native to the US prairies) that is used as no-mow turf if you get the right variety (you don't want the ones selected for livestock feed or for CA lawns.) It will spread via stolons and form a dense mat. Here's a source of plugs (I know nothing about the company) and here is another company that I have done business with and been pleased with that sells plugs as well as some seeds of other types of dry- and sun-tolerant grasses. Here is a general info sheet on buffalo grass turf. Here's a [Houzz article on sedges as lawn alternatives[(https://www.houzz.com/magazine/meet-a-lawn-alternative-that-works-wonders-stsetivw-vs~21227186), though many of the photos are closeups, so you will need to do an image web search for large area photos.

One fern that makes a wonderful dense ground-cover is hay-scented (or hayscented) fern, Dennstaedtia punctiloba. It is a native around here and will grow in full sun to part sun. It is perfectly happy with dry conditions once established. I would put a root barrier on either side at your property line, though, since it does spread vigorously via rhizomes. We have had it growing wild at both our last home and at our current place, and it forms an even textured, upright 1 1/2 foot tall bright green blanket and would work well with your transition into woodland. Paired with mulch while it gets established, it would work well, though it isn't evergreen. You could weed it once a year after it has died down in the fall and renew the mulch at the same time.

As Diggerdee suggested Vinca or sweet woodruff AKA bedstraw (Gallium) are two herbaceous plants that form an even texture and grow densely enough to be weed-suppressing. Both would need some type of barrier (or periodic cutting back) at your property line since they will crawl out into turf. Vinca is evergreen and bedstraw will die back with hard freezes I think.

Diggerdee also suggested looking at rug junipers. Drought isn't a problem once established, they are low-growing, and will grow outward to form a matt. There are a range of colors and textures available. Another low shrub is Bearberry (Arctostaphylos uva-ursi), though IME it isn't as dense as junipers.

Regardless of what you plant, since the area is dry and steep, you will need to water regularly while things get established. Early fall planting will be more successful than spring planting since the soil is warm while the air is cooler, so there's less stress on the plants. For almost anything you will want root barriers or edging to keep either your neighbor's grass out of your plants or your plants out of your neighbor's grass.

so .. you want a care free .. plant and forget plant.. with no maintenance .. that looks perfect.. for a near impossible spot ...

we have all been looking for this plant for decades ... lol .. good luck with that ...

you seem to be going at this from a designers perspective.. rather than a gardeners perspective.. i am sure many of us.. have spent 3 to 5 years.. trying to find the perfect plant for a bad spot.. while killing lots of pretenders to the throne ...

having moved from flat suburbia .. to minor hilly lot.. let me insure you.. watering to get whatever established ..... will be a bigger obstacle than plant choice ... its very hard.. to get water to permeate the soil to the plants roots ... before it flows downhill ... and you dont seem to sound like one who will be out there.. every other days or so.. insuring such ...

you might need a landscaper who can also install drip irrigation ...

i do wish you luck ...

BTW .. a pic might inspire further suggestions ...

ken

We replaced our bluegrass lawn with buffalo grass. Here in NM buffalo grass is extremely drought tolerant once you get past the first season. It never needs mowing, mature height is about 2-3". It withstands light foot traffic, and spreads by stolons densely enough to suppress most weeds. We get occasional bluegrass trying to grow back, but as we never water the lawn, it will die off naturally.

To get it started, you will need to kill off the grasses already there. We cut back the sod, lifted it and used a herbicide to kill off sprouts. Then DH tilled the soil, and we planted plugs of the grass on 1' centers. You can do this with a power drill so it goes quickly. So to start with, it's fairly labor intensive, but you could do it in sections to make it more manageable.

I like the blue fescue idea. We have Boulder Blue and Elijah Blue in beds, but it isn't as vigorous as buffalo grass as NHBabs says.

Cheryl

ETA: We used Prestige, a sterile hybrid recommended for our hot area. We bought it from High Country Gardens, mentioned by NHBabs, when they had a store in Albuquerque.

WHERE ARE YOU !?!?!?!?! My guess is . . . . . . . suburban Philly.

The hills I'm asking about have a bunch of brush and wild God-know's-what (weeds, unidentified plants)

Whatever gets planted should be able to fight off the brush and everything else, or at least keep it down to a dull roar so twice a year weeding will be adequate. For a sunny slope that isn't an easy task, which is one reason that turf grasses end up on places they really shouldn't. Lawnmowers handle invasive brush much the same way Godzilla handled Tokyo, and anything else requires a lot more creativity, work or both. The problem isn't going to be getting plants to grow there. Plants already grow there. The problem is going to be stopping those plants. I've seen enough weed infested beds of practically everything recommended so far to know it isn't going to be easy.

I'm in NE Ohio and have no lawn care or gardening experience, but am very into design, so that's why I'm approaching it from that angle. Im enclosing a few photos to illustrate. Right now I'm thinking Asian Jasmine or a fescue that could go unmoved. I like the look of the jasmine for its green waxiness, however. I'll go through the recent comments shortly.

And another

Tiffew, since you say that you "have no lawn care or gardening experience, but am very into design, so that's why I'm approaching it from that angle," there are probably a few things you want to consider that make plant design different from other kinds of design.

- Whatever you choose will need care to get established and ongoing maintenance, far more than your house. You will need to keep it watered while getting established and weeded forever.

- As Mad Gallica mentioned above, you are in a part of the country where trees and other woody plants are the dominant species and your trees will be sending seeds into your groundcover bed. So you will need to get out there 2 or 3 times a year( I use pliers) and pull seedlings.

- You will want some type barrier (as I mentioned above) to keep your groundcover out of your neighbor's lawn and out of the woods as well as your neighbor's lawn out of your groundcover since neither will stop tidily at your property's border without some help. You will also need to go out at least once a month and cut back any plants that are trying to get established over your border. If you are unable to do this, you should just choose a no-mow grass that will have the look you want so that you don't have to do this type of maintenance.

- If you want the nice even look a groundcover can achieve, you don't want to push zone limits and have chunks of it die off or get severely winter burned. Asian jasmine is supposed to be hardy to zone 7a, and IME NE Ohio (I grew up in Cleveland) isn't warm enough and is probably 6b only if you are right on the lake. And based on what I was hearing from my mom who lives within sight of Lake Erie and got below -10 several times this winter, I wouldn't trust that 6b designation. So I would seriously rethink the idea of the jasmine if you want something that actually looks good. Even if the jasmine survived, it would most likely get a fair amount of winter damage, and not retain the formal, even look you are going for.

- Because you are right on the edge of woodland, I would try to choose carefully what you plant so that whatever you use won't grow into your woodland and crowd out native species. You are wise to avoid ivy which could be a nightmare to maintain, and I would probably avoid Vinca as well since I know it has escaped into the woods in many parts of Ohio.

- I see in the photos that the slope is in full shade at this hour. What time was it taken and how much sun does it actually get at different times of day and of the year? I find that if I watch an area over the seasons, there are widely different amounts of sun based on day length and sun angle, and you may find that this area isn't quite as sunny as you think if you usually see it only at certain limited times of day. You said this is a new house and I am not clear if you are living there yet, so please excuse me if I sound like I am talking down to you.

- My mom's house had Pachysandra in a spot that got full sun plus light reflected from the house from sun up until about 2 in the afternoon, so Pachysandra might suit the situation, have the look you are going for, and be easier to keep in bounds than some of the other suggested evergreen plants. It is often used in NE Ohio for beds of evergreen groundcover and Georgian homes.

One resource that may have some local information for you would be the Holden Arboretum in Kirtland, Ohio. They have demonstration gardens and may have some info on woodlands-friendly but sun tolerant ground covers good for your area.

Thanks for the invaluable advice. We are living here already and we are very open to maintenance in our lawn. I ordered the jasmine, but if it proves a problem I will get some pachysandra from my mother and give that a try. I'll also go to the arburetum for advice the photo was taken at 8:30 pm the other evening. I am about an hour south of the lake and we are considerable warmer and less windy than lakefront towns. Thank you, again, so much.

Here's some design...click to view larger.

"I am about an hour south of the lake and we are considerable warmer and less windy than lakefront towns."

A large body of water is a huge heat sink, whether it is Lake Erie or an ocean or even a large river. Being near the water makes it feel colder to us due to the wind (which pulls away the warmth our bodies create, thus wind chill). The air is cooler during spring and summer since water takes so long to warm up, but during the winter (which is when a zone 7 plant would have difficulty) being near the lake will be warmer because the water is warmer than the air and so is giving off warmth unless/until it is frozen like last winter. So my mom's current place and the house where I grew up are both zone 6, while most areas farther south away from the lake are zone 5. Growing up it when it was raining at my house, less than 5 miles south of us it could be snowing. Similarly, where I live now is about an hour from the Atlantic and is cold zone 5, while where I work on the coast is 5b at least and perhaps 6. Here's a zone map of Ohio so you can find the zone where you are. So you are at least a full zone colder than the jasmine's recommended hardiness, even if you are in one of the zone 6 areas. If you have mild winters for a few years, your jasmine may be OK, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will die the next winter that we have like last winter and it may well have a lot of dead areas at the end of all winters.

Yes, I know what you mean about the lake retaining the heat and the area nearest it being warmer longer. I was referring to other seasons, namely spring. I appreciate the comment on the zones. As a result, I canceled my order for the Asiatic Jasmine and am going to try pachysandra. My mother has a load of it and it will be easy to get. We are going to use the rake on our tractor the rough up the land, remove the vegetation, spread some decaying leaves and then try an area with pachysandra. I hope it works out for us.

Catkin, that photo is stunning. Do you happen to know what the dense purple and dense silver plants are?

Thanks, everyone, for the great and helpful advice.

It is, isn't? I think it's Salvia nemerosa (purple) and Stachys byzantina aka Lamb's Ears.

Hi everyone. I have made a little progress with these hills flanking our driveway. We used a rototiller and weeded the hills and planted quite a bit of green sheen pachysandra on the upper half of one hill and a smaller amount on the other hill (left side of driveway). I recently got the idea to plant Nellie Stevens Holly as a hedge to block the electrical box, but my plan is to start it on either side of the driveway at the point where the apron meets the straight part of the driveway, which is maybe 20 ft up from the cul-de-sac and slightly curve it out quite a ways forming a hedge (eventually as it needs about a year to fill in from what I've read). I'd plant either pachysandra or maybe myrtle from the hedge toward the street. So the pachysandra will be behind the hedge going toward where the tree line is on each side. But, where do I end the holly hedge on each side, at the property line? This is quite a big area and that would mean a ton of hedge. Or, is there a way to "finish" it or end it that looked purposeful and historic. I'm against anything remotely contemporary, but very open to critique and suggestions.

If the pachysandra doesn't work (I hope it does) perhaps you'll consider bearberry (ursi urvi ) a dense little woody, or a small leaved cotoneaster. There are other lovely shrubs which don't flower long (since you say you don't want floriferous) or whose flowers are not very significant. . Just curious, what are your objections to flowers? Certainly there are flowering shrubs and groundcovers that would not detract from classical lines of Georgian architecture. And your choices would be greater. Remember, too, that if one type of plant- monoculture - gets a disease or proves susceptable to an environmental factor, the entire planting can be affected. A mixed planting is more flexible and more resilient. And more interesting, in my opinion.

Thanks for the follow-up post. It's always great to see folks' progress on projects that they have requested help on.

In order for the pachysandra to succeed, you will need to mulch it. That will keep down weeds (best if you do it before the weeds start growing), keep moisture even, and prevent erosion until the pachysandra fills in. Mulch the whole hill, and if needed, pull aside mulch to do additional planting.

I can't picture where your holly hedge will run from your description. Can you print your photo, put red X's where you are envisioning your hedge, and then take a photo of that if you don't have software that can draw on a digital photo?

"eventually as it needs about a year to fill in from what I've read"

Not sure what you've been reading, but no newly planted bush will do a lot of growing of any kind in a year other than root growth. It will take more like 3-5 years depending on spacing. If you plant it too closely it will be too crowded in a few years, so this is where you will have to be patient. Nellie Stevens holly is only hardy to zone 6 according to the Missouri Botanical Garden and my memory is that an hour south of the lake you will be at best zone 5b. If that's the case, you may get a fair amount of winter burn, not an attractive look IMO. Also, you will need to plan on pruning as it's a big shrub, 15' tall x 8' wide.

Yes, thank you for the follow-up! I always love to see what people have done with situations on which they have questions. We can all learn from these threads and from seeing the finished project!

I *think* I know where you want to put the hedge - I'm thinking it kind of follows the line where the dirt meets the grass - but do you really want that tall of a hedge there? Babs' link above says Nellie Stevens gets 15 to 25 feet high. It doesn't seem like you need this for privacy, so just curious if you were aware of that height.

Please make sure you post photos when things start to fill in!

Hi. Yes, I am aware it gets that high, but I also read it can be whatever height you prune it to. Do you have other ideas? I'm meeting with a new landscape architect soon and will post his suggestions and/or drawings.

I put down peat moss, but did that after the above photo. Do I need mulch too? Ok, I'll make a drawing with red x's and post that. Do you have a suggestion better than Nellie Stevens,

i don't have anything against flowers, I just prefer various textures of one color. Can't explain it, it's just what I like. I'm eager to see what the designer says--honestly I have no background in gardening so am really incredibly new to this all and am learning as we go.

Landscape designer said it will be November until there is a break in his schedule to come up with a plan for me. I called another who can't even come out til October. Then called another whose retainer is too high for me even to consider. The two we hired, paid, and met with many times proved to be unable to understand my arsthetic. I'm throwing my hands up in the air and thinking its up to me to do. I found a concept in a house design book I think could work, but I need ideas for what to do it with. I'm sort of thinking hydrangeas as the "clumps" on either side of the area that parallels the driveway before curving and winging out. Maybe a tree on each side of the driveway in close proximity? As for the bushes/hedges, I'll see what the local garden center recommends. I'm wondering where to "end" the hedges in relation to our property line. Do I take them all the way to the edge? Any thoughts on this in light of the photo/design here?

I think adding the trees would look great. The hydrangeas will be hidden by the hedges, so that seems like a waste of beauty to me. Personally I would end the hedges shortly after the curves and semi wrap the hydrangeas around them.

Interesting idea. I'd need to take the hedge a bit past the curve unless I plan a clump of other things like shown on the right side of the drawing in order to hide the electrical box.

I think that would work well....as long as it looks balanced. The trees will really top it off! Please be sure to post pics with whatever you decide :)

Any tree, bush or flower suggestions?

Peat moss isn't a good top dressing at all. It's too fine to provide erosion control and once it is dry it actually repels water; it won't rewet, and so keeps water away from your plantings. I'd grab a shop vac or something to remove the majority of the peat moss and add bark mulch, not nuggets but shredded since it will sort of knit together and stay in place better.

Hydrangea paniculata would be the best Hydrangea choice there, but it will have flowers. Limelight might be a good choice since it would be green on green, but choose one that the ultimate height estimate fits your wishes so you don't have to do as much pruning which has to be done branch by branch, not with hedge shears. H. paniculata includes (but this isn't a full list): Bobo, Limelight, Little Lime, Quickfire, Little Quickfire, Little Lamb, Pee Gee, Vanilla Strawberry, Strawberry Sundae, Pinky Winky, among others. They vary in height, flower color (though all have some white and some pink late in the season) and bloom density and shape, so choose what appeals to you.

Consider a spring flowering tree just to break it up from your all green theme that is going on for much of the year. Some ideas include Venus dogwood, any of the Kousa dogwood varieties, a disease resistant white-flowered crab (or pink flowered if you want more color) Also look at planting some white daffodils since green and white makes for a nice formal theme.

For your hedge, look at Ilex glabra (a non-spiny holly,) or a more traditional holly, or boxwood or yew if you don't have deer.

Since you like more formal, structured landscapes, check out Dirt Simple, the blog of Deborah Silver, a Detroit area landscape designer. While many of her designs incorporate bright colors, she also has many that are all green or green and white, and she tends to have a fair amount of structure in the form of hedges and hardscape. I am sure that you will find ideas for plants and design schemes, and then you can come back here to ask further questions if needed.

NHBabs, thank you for the detailed response. Thanks to all of your for your input.

I am now perusing the Detroit Gardenworks blog--it's full of very nice images!

I had no idea there were so many varieties of hydrangea. I have a lovely blue variety in built-in planters attached to our covered patio and absolutely love them.

I am going to a very large and knowledgeable garden center tomorrow with all these ideas and will post back here after I speak to them.

The blue Hydrangeas macrophylla are lovely, but prefer part sun and regular moisture. H. paniculata likes more sun and is more tolerant of drier soil once established.

I'm thinking it might be best to put the hydrangeas in front of the hedge. I have now seen many images of this type of arrangement online this evening and I love it. I wonder, however, what on earth to plant at the "leading edge", so to speak, that is directly next to the driveway and which will "begin" this portion of the design. I'm also thinking I should start farther up from the street instead of where the bend is from the apron to the rest of the driveway. This would make for a more sweeping arrangement because I'd need to arc down in front of the electrical box, but it would mean more of it would be less close to the street.

The garden center suggested Yew or China Doll Holly for the hedges. I saw the Yew and another Holly variety. I strongly prefer the Holly. I saw nearly all the hydrangeas mentioned above and loved every single one! They also suggested a trio of trees: crabapple, Cleveland select pear, and a maple that I can't recall the name of, but it is very bright red in the fall. None of those were in-stock until September (the trees, I mean).

I'm thinking a vertically placed piece of barn stone on each leading edge of where this all begins adjacent to the driveway would be a nice way to start this row of hedges. What do you all think of the China Doll holly and the barn stone idea?

Cleveland select pear - Noooo o o o o . . .

For many reasons it really isn't a great tree. It's invasive in native woodlands in much of the country (something you said wanted to avoid), the blossoms smell dreadful, and the wood is prone to winter damage. Here are some pears near me after a wet autumn snow. I had a few broken lilac branches, but none of my trees other than some of the scrappier white pines had broken branches, and I saw no other trees that were severely enough damaged to need to be removed as these needed to be. If you search these trees on the tree forum you will only get a very few positives vs. many many negative comments.

The dogwoods I mentioned in the post yesterday would be much better choices. My Kousa dogwoods have color that rivals the pear and mine has been healthy until last winter's -22 (at least) killed the buds, though it is still working on leafing out now. That shouldn't be an issue for you. If you do go for the crabapple, do a web search to be sure it is a disease resistant variety.

As far as the holly - I much prefer holly over yew. I can't grow it here without winter damage, but at least some varieties are hardy in your area. Be sure you get an appropriate boy holly to pollenate your females to get berries. China Boy is supposed to be appropriate for China Doll, but I couldn't find specific hardiness info on China Doll. I think the combination of holly and Hydrangea will be handsome, with the Hydrangea providing summer bloom and the holly providing winter green along with berries for the first part of the winter (before the birds eat them.) I don't know what you mean by barn stone, so I can't answer that part.

Where ever you plant the hedges, be sure they are set back far enough so you can see oncoming traffic as you pull out of your driveway.

Wow, you would think they would not suggest this version of pear tree if it's so problematic. They are very popular around here. I'll pay attention to our neighbors yard since they just planted several this spring.

I am going to another garden center on Tuesday and will ask for additional recommendations there. I'm increasingly concerned with how odd it might look that I will have this curved row of hedges just stop in the middle of our hill after it goes slightly past the electrical box. I just can't imagine that will look ok, but am not sure what on earth we can do considering these hills are so wide.

I'm glad you are backing off the pear tree. The hated tree has been planted around here for some decades now and they literally disintegrate over time. Any wind or storm results in more big limbs being blown down. If thats not bad enough, they stink when blooming but the worst part is the way the surrounding countryside is becoming invaded.

Wherever there is another new subdivision, they are planted, 9 times out of 10, with more of the ever popular pears, lining the streets which is done so often because the tree is (in the beginning) so "perfectly" formed & behaved making a nice, very unified look so everyone seems hell bent on planting them or maybe they are just unimaginative, I don't know.

This is the inevitable result in the surrounding countryside--wall to wall trees all of one kind-- its awful --- an ever widening Callery Tree Forest Monoculture pops up very quickly. I mean, does anyone notice?? This is scary stuff in my opinion.

Just remember, the hydrangeas will be dormant in winter. So you'll have a line of bare sticks along the driveway. Maybe that will be okay with you, especially with the evergreen hedge behind it, but just wanted to make sure you were aware of that.

Tex, I agree completely - that is indeed scary stuff. I'm sure there are some who drive by and sigh and say how pretty it is, without really thinking what is happening there.

Hi all. I have some preliminary sketches from the landscape architect. I like the idea of the very manicured Hawthorne tree, but not the black-eyed susan or salvia. I think I'd change to hydrangea instead of the black eyed susan. I now have pachysandra on these hills so I'll let that continue to spread instead of grass as it's too steep to mow. On the drawing the "EB" stands for "electrical box" and he has river stone on our swale areas by the street to accommodate for what the snow plow disturbs each winter. I'd love any thoughts.