Murphy's Law of Rose Breeding
roseseek
9 years ago
This
crossed with this
produces this
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seil zone 6b MI
9 years ago
bluegirl_gw
9 years agoRelated Discussions
What are the rose patent rules in USA?
Comments (8)Hi Rosecandy, yes, I've bred and released roses. No, I haven't patented any. The fees for the paperwork are there on the web site. As you can see from them, it still costs a LOT of money for patent protection. MUCH more than I (or likely you) could expect to recoup from any one variety. A major player such as Week's, Conard Pyle, etc., already has the people skilled in filing the paper work and describing the plants. For them, the costs are similar but they have the people and procedures in place. They also have the pipeline for production and distribution in place so they are much more likely to move the quantity of plants required to make back those costs and produce a profit. What good would it do for either of us to spend $1000 to "protect" a plant when we're likely to sell a few dozen, perhaps even a hundred under great results, because we don't have the advertising, production and distribution channels? Far better to produce something you think worthy and interest a commercial concern in producing it. Yes, it's going to take several years for trial and production and you are best off not providing anyone information about it other than those producing it. Say you produce the white and purple spotted rose and it proves itself worthy of introduction. Say that takes the minimum three years (very fast for something really commercial, but OK for arguement). Perhaps you posted a photo of it here on GW in your enthusiasm and even might have provided the parentage. If that post occurred more than one year from the date you apply for patent protection and it is searchable by the patent office, you are out of luck. Those who are already producing such potentially commercial, potentially worthy of patent roses do not divulge their creations publicly until they are tested and any protection is applied for. Jim Sproul, "daddy" of the Eyeconic Hulthemias, Thrive! and quite a few other very nice roses, only shares photos of and information about progress in his breeding. Anything he feels might be "commercial" is never shared until it has either been found unsuitable or protected and ready for introduction. It is completely safe to make statements such as a particular rose or a particular cross is producing good results, but if that statement contains any information which specifically identifies a specific seedling, you have "publicly introduced" that rose. Yes, that means if a rose is patented, it most likely was raised quite a few years prior to the patent date. You see how much it costs to patent the plant. It can take several years to build enough quantities of a single plant to be able to supply demand. All of that costs quite a bit of money if you're considering a national introduction through an established, commercial producer. Of course no where near what it cost years ago when a J&P might be gearing up to sell many hundreds of thousands of a single variety, but it's still a sizeable chunk of cash. No one is going to gamble that kind of money on a plant until it has been tested in as many conditions and climates as possible and proven itself worthy in major markets. If you're not patenting it, I know of those who have raised a seedling one year and introduced it "commercially" the next. It's the testing and creating the ability to supply many thousands of plants, generating the advertising images and copy, supplying the "pipeline" which takes time and adds costs. Anything which allows that specific rose to be identified postively will start the clock. A seedling number, a test name, images showing something characteristic of that specific rose, anything which could be used like a finger print, can start it. Identifying it as a cross between two parents shouldn't because there can be many thousands of seedlings raised between two roses. But if you say seedling #, code named "xyz" which is a single, pink shrub, then you have "introduced" that rose. That information can specifically identify that exact variety. You have "finger printed" it. Once you publicly post photos of it which can further be used to identify it specifically, you have introduced it. If that specific bloom is contained in a group shot of many seedlings or other plants and not specifically identified by name or number, you're OK because you haven't identified that variety. Bottom line is, unless you are well-heeled and patenting the rose purely out of vanity, an "amateur" is probably better off NOT patenting a plant. You will never recoup the investment unless you can generate and SELL enough plants to cover all of your costs. Kim...See MoreLegal issues with using trademarked materials for breeding projects?
Comments (3)Thanks for the replies. All good recommendations. I don't have any 'patented' cultivars yet, but a lot of the ones (patented or not) you see for sale seem to be crosses with readily available non-patented cultivars, like overleese, davis, and prolific. So, I suppose there isn't any reason to bother with patented varieties, paying a lawyer, or getting a law degree. lol...See MoreIt can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 32
Comments (139)Hi Alex, " I'm going to limit my crosses to something more manageable and mark the petals so that the smaller amount will have a greater likelihood of being my crosses. " OK, king's X. I concede that your petal marking makes a lot of sense for your situation. And I admire that you have evolved a workable technique for doing that. " I'm not going to go crazy and try to cross everything in sight. " That's a good plan. So you are going to develop a targeted strategy, and that involves some thinking and policy making. That can be a good thing. I have to admit that sometimes if I am carrying a loaded pollen floret, I do sometimes just apply it to an unlikely female zinnia on an impulse. "Your pollination technique is no doubt honed to an art, or at least enough to where you feel you have fairly successfully hit most of the petals of a bloom." I have evolved some techniques for making the most of high-value pollen. That involves using all the pollen readily available in the pollen floret, and then extracting the internal anther bundle from the floret, and using the pollen within it. I don't recommend using anther bundles to beginner breeders, because it isn't easy, like wiping florets on stigmas or using brush pollen transfers. But using anther bundles does make it possible to extract pollen from scabious florets. And using anther bundles lets you find pollen in other sources, like petaloids or tubular flower parts or unopened pollen florets. Pollen is where you find it. But using anther bundles is kind of tricky. You need forceps or tweezers with some fairly small or even sharp points. It could be a frustrating technique for beginning breeders. Changing the subject, this is a current recombinant that has some fantasy-like flower characteristics. There were once Fantasy Flowered commercial zinnia strains, and some were even award winners, but they have long since been discontinued. When I find recombinant fantasy flowered specimens. I will use them as breeders. I find it appalling that seed companies would discontinue AAS winning zinnias, and not even save seed stock from them for later re-introduction. When Burpee discontinued their bush-forming Burpeeanas, they didn't even save seed stock, so that later when they tried to re-introduce Burpeeanas, they had to try to re-invent them, with somewhat limited success. More later. ZM...See MoreIt can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 42
Comments (106)Hi Rogelio, Actually, this is not the latest part of this message series -- the current thread is Part 43. However, no harm done, and I will respond to you here. But you might want to move over to Part 43 to continue our exchange. " My question is I wanted to grow zinnias indoors, over the winter after reading this blog is it safe to assume an 8/12 light schedule would induce flowering? 8 0n 12 hours off? " No, there are three things wrong with that. First of all, the two numbers need to add up to 24, not 20. Second of all, the hours of light need to be greater than the hours of dark. (I use 16 hours of light and 8 hours of dark or sometimes 17 hours of light and 7 hours of dark.) And third, you don't need to "induce flowering" with zinnias. They will automatically form a bud after 5 or 6 leaf pairs. Not only do you not need to induce flowering, I don't know of any legitimate way you could keep them from flowering. " Also when breeding if I find a specimen I want to collect or chuck the pollen would I just clip the head off and dust the flower I want to seed to see what happens? " I don't understand that question. Perhaps you could restate it. But let's move over to Part 43 to continue this. That is a nice bunch of zinnias in your photo, and they look well grown. ZM...See More
Jasminerose, California, USDA 9b/Sunset 18
9 years ago
summersrhythm_z6a
9 years ago
fig_insanity Z7b E TN
9 years agoroseseek
9 years ago
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
9 years agolast modified: 9 years agoroseseek
9 years ago
Kippy
8 years ago
wirosarian_z4b_WI
8 years agoroseseek
8 years ago
jerijen
8 years ago
SoFL Rose z10
8 years agoroseseek
8 years agoJasminerose, California, USDA 9b/Sunset 18
8 years agoroseseek
8 years ago
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