Gas or electric?

dcarch

I'll bet you a paycheck they're looking for gas. Make it two paychecks.

$2,000 will buy a pretty nice gas range with plenty of features you'll probably never use. Convection should be a given in that price range.

Did you want dual fuel (gas cooking and electric oven)? How about two smaller ovens instead of one big one? An electric oven may require adding a new electrical circuit to power the oven. Most gas ranges just use an ordinary 120v, 15 (or 20) amp circuit to power the lights, ignitors, etc.

FOAS, I know Lars said gas. But I think being a designer, looks is an important consideration. Electric offers a greater flexibility, the flat look, and easier for cleaning.

dcarch

We do not have a 220 outlet for an electric oven, and so I do want to have a gas oven, like I have now. I do not like electric ovens unless they are countertop. I really do not use the oven all that much, but I do use it to cook pizzas at high heat. Anything small that can bake at 350° I will bake in the toaster oven, but if I am using a cast iron skillet or other pan with a long handle, I will use the gas oven. If we ever had cold weather, I would use the gas oven more, and maybe we will have some in the future, although generally I prefer to cook outdoors to avoid heating the house. The oven is not that much of a consideration, although I do bake pizzas on a regular basis, and I like high heat for that. I can get very high heat on the Big Green Egg in the back yard, but that takes a lot of planning and uses a fair amount of wood or charcoal, and so I generally try to cook a lot of things at one time once I commit to a wood fire. It's great for parties, but we don't have those so often any more.

This one looks kind of nice, but I would be worried about buying an oven called "Frigidaire". I am somewhat considering Verona, but I do not know much about it. That would be at the top end of our budget, I think, and I do not know how practical it would be.

An all gas range can be a great choice. I only know these things second hand, but I haven't heard great things about Verona. Frigidaire's electric ovens don't have a great reputation, but I don't know about the gas ones. The Gallery line is their premium, but I don't know if it's just looks, or if the works are better.

You might look at Five Star. I've heard some good things about that one.

Take a look at Bertazzoni. A friend in the middle of a gut renovation chose it for the looks. And reasonable price.

Avoid frigidaire. They have changed the panel design since i had one, the gallery series, yrs ago...replaced twice, (i paid for the extra insurance). My parents have a new one...tried to talk them out of it. It is ok and works fine but they put a fan in the new design to keep the computer panel cool....so now it blows hot air on you when standing in front of the stove...you would hate that. Nice for the NEast in February i suppose. : )

I do have the Bertazonni 5 burner cooktop and very happy with it. A bit over five yrs now. Very easy to clean, nothing ever sticks to the stainless top. Works in a power outage...

Thanks for the info - that is very helpful. It looks like this Bertazonni might work for us. I do not have room for the 5 burner version. I was considering GE Cafe and Frigidaire, and so it is good to know to avoid them.

That is the one my friend ordered. It is a nice compromise. Not high end or the lower end. My parents seem to like their Frigidaire, but when using it on holiday, i found it fussy. Not crazy about reaching over pots and pans to shift the electronics...but i cook. They mostly heat up tidbits of this and that. Rarely do they use the oven. Most often a microwave. I would need more than the week i visited to give a proper review. Getting to know an oven takes some time....

Another potential choice in that price range is the Bosch line (800 or new Benchmark). We have the 500 in our 2nd home and it works well. However, it does have the center burner on the 30" model you are trying to avoid. I would have also recommended the Bertazonni as well, primarily for looks. I just disliked the burner configuration on the 36". The four burner model looks like a great fit, and the ventilation offer is a nice bonus.

I would consider the Bosch, and I am fine with having a 5th burner in the center if it is 30", but I do not want dual fuel. If Bosch makes a range with a gas oven, I will consider it.

I think my main concern about the Bertazonni is how it might heat up the kitchen. I have read some reviews that said it blew warm air out into the room, but I think that was when using the oven. We got central air conditioning last year, however, and so that should not be a problem. I would be concerned about noise, if that is an issue, but then the vent that I have is rather loud anyway.

We will try to look at ranges in Santa Monica this week-end. Kevin is getting his bonus this month, which is why he offered this. He said he would pay $2000, and I will then pay whatever over that it will cost, which sounds like a good arrangement to me. My budget is more restricted because I have to pay for a dental implant, which will cost more than the range.

If Santa Monica doesn't do it for you, I can recommend Universal Appliance in Studio City. Big showroom with variety.

The Bosch is all gas, convection, self-cleaning, 30" five-burner and has a larger burner in the center (18 to 20K BTU, depending on the configuration). Both slide-in and freestanding versions are available.

http://www.uakc.com/cooking/ranges/gas/?order-results=&Brand[]=Bosch&WADbSearch1=Submit

However, style and finish wise the Berta has it beat.

Rotisserie for the broiler is nice to have.

dcarch

The Bosch looked good until I read that the max temperature is 450°. Studio City is twice as far as Santa Monica, and I think we could also look in South Bay. There is a place in Culver City as well (or maybe two), but one of them is not open on week-ends, although it is open until 7:00 PM on Thursdays. I think they will have better prices than Snyder Diamond in Santa Monica. There is also Absolute Appliances on La Brea that is pretty close to us, only about a mile further than Santa Monica. We like going to Hollywood.

We were in the Valley last week-end (Reseda) to get touch-up finish for our fountain and also to buy some rare succulents (stapelia) at a wholesale nursery that sells to the public on week-ends. Traffic was not as bad as when we went to buy the fountain, but it is unpredictable on week-ends. We tend not to go to the valley unless we absolutely have to, but many times we absolutely have to!

I had a rotisserie and never used it. I also prefer having a storage drawer to a warming drawer. I have a warming drawer now and use it only for storage. I use the toaster oven for keeping things warm.

We will go to Studio City if we do not find what we are looking for closer to us. Thanks for that recommendation, as I would not have thought of it otherwise.

Lars I don't think Snyder Diamond is what it used to be. I'd head over to Fergusons. Actually the Studio City store has Bertazonni's on the floor. Maybe you could get a floor sample? And I know that you don't want to hear this, however the Fergusons in Canoga Park has ovens that work so you could see and hear them in action!

It would be good to hear an oven in action, and I would possibly drive to Canoga Park for that. I do not intend to buy a range at Snyder Diamond in Santa Monica, although I did buy my toilet there, as well as my tub/shower faucet (Hansgrohe) and Kevin's bathroom faucet. It's not one of my favorite places to shop, but they do have good inventory. I've read more bad reviews about Ferguson's than I have about Snyder Diamond, and so I'm a bit wary of them, but their Santa Monica store is not far from Snyder Diamond. If we do go to Santa Monica, I will visit the Ferguson store there, but I will not expect too much. The Studio City store might be better, however.

I just got this announcement (via email) from Snyder Diamond:

Join
us at our Santa Monica showroom for a live cooking demo with the chefs
from Wood Stone Home and experience the versatility of a stone hearth
oven.
(and have a bite on us!)

Santa Monica Showroom

Saturday, May 9th

11am to 2pm in the Appliance Department

So I will not be going there on Saturday unless I want to deal with the crowds who want to see the cooking demo. Maybe it would be nice.

We went to Absolute Appliances on La Brea today, and I looked at a couple of Bertazzoni ranges that I like, but they also had a Fisher & Paykel 30" range that looks like a contender. Does this range have a good reputation? I have not been able to find much info about it, but it has features that I like - and some that are not as good as the Bertazzoni.
What the F&P has going for it:

• Nice stainless steel knobs
  Storage drawer beneath the oven
  Nice placement of burners and nice grate
  Clock with timer that will turn the oven off
  Two shelves on ball bearings

I think the Bertazzoni offers more control and flexibility with the burners, and I think it is prettier, but Kevin's likes the way the F&P looks.

I'm really on the fence about which one to choose.

After shopping for ranges, we went to the La Brea Bakery, as it was just down the street. We did not use their parking lot, as it was valet only, and I hate valet parking. We found a spot half a block away, and so it was not an issue. I bought a loaf of pumpernickel plus a couple of croissant like pastries for tomorrow's breakfast. I have the recipe for this pumpernickel, but it is four pages long, requires sourdough starter, and is a bit fussy, but if I ever get sourdough starter, I will definitely make this version.

I have a nrx stove and love it . http://nxrstoves.com/

Lars, is this the model you are looking at? I notice the max temp on the oven is 555 and it is not self-cleaning (that would be a deal-breaker for me). On the page in the link, you can scroll down about mid-way and click on "Info & Guides" to look at the Owner's Manual. It was not reviewed on the AJ Madison site. Consumer Reports has not tested it. A quick Google search only turned up a handful of reviews, but they were all positive.

Fisher and Paykel has a good reputation for cooking appliances. I don't know if this includes the gas range, though.

Bbstx, yes, that is the model we were looking at. I do not care about having a self-cleaning oven - the last two I had were self cleaning, and I never used that feature, as they did not get dirty. The Bertazzoni oven also is not self cleaning. I really do not use ovens that much - mostly just for pizza and bread, and that does not get them dirty. Whenever possible, I use the toaster oven instead.
What I do like about both models is that they have sealed burners and are therefore easy to clean - the NXR range does not have that. I use the stove top a lot, and so cleaning that must be easy. I would feel better about the F&P range if I had more information about it.

The NxR does have a sealed burner.

I must have confused NXR with Smeg, which was another we looked at and it looks very similar to the NXR. Also, the specs on NXR did not mention sealed burners. Thanks for that correction!
I read some really good reviews on Bertazzoni in Chowhound, and that is beginning to influence my decision.

Kevin bought the red Bertazzoni this week, and it will be installed in the next couple of weeks. Last week he bought a new refrigerator because our ice maker broke down, and we both decided that we did not like the old SxS fridge that we got when we bought the house six years ago. June 10 was our 6th anniversary! Here's how the new fridge (delivered today) looks with the old range:

I will post a new photo in a couple of weeks to show the new red range! We have also decided to have a party approximately July 10 - Kevin has to go to Wisconsin the following week-end, and we thought that we could use the 4th of July week-end to get ready. So if you are in L.A. and want to come, let me know!
We really like the new fridge but have not loaded it yet. All of our food fit into the garage refrigerator and freezer, and I will be careful about what I choose to put in the new one. At least the food will now be more accessible. I especially like the middle drawer for cheese/cold cuts. I will be able to store my lunchables there.
I was a bit concerned with how the red range would look with our cabinets and tile floor, but after we got the red KA mixer, I decided that it would be fine. The color of the floor is more orange in person than in the photo - it is not pink at all. Kevin ordered a stainless steel back splash to go between the range and the MW, and it will be delivered next week. After we install that, the range can be delivered, as it was in stock in SoCal, and is available for delivery next week.

LOVE the style of the fridge! About 4 years ago I purchased a dual oven gas stove and haven't regretted it once.

Having the middle drawer in the fridge has really changed my life - I think that is what I like most about this refrigerator. It holds cheese, cold cuts, and lettuce and therefore makes it very easy to get ingredients to make a sandwich. I still have to open a door to get the mustard, mayo, and pickles, but still it is a lot easier. The old interior plastic drawers that I used to use for lettuce and cold cuts were a lot less accessible.

We got our stainless steel backsplash yesterday but were too tired to do more than take it out of the box. I ordered some tape for installation, and that is due to arrive on Thursday, and so maybe we can install it then. Tonight we will have to clean and prep the wall behind the stove, and so I won't be using the stove tonight. Fortunately, I have a portable induction burner that I can use at any time (except during power outages), plus the MW and toaster oven. I have frozen meals in the freezer that I could heat up easily for when I cannot cook.

We should have the new Bertazzoni range next week, and I am pretty excited about that! It is really going to change the look of the kitchen. I just hope the backsplash installation goes okay. It looks pretty easy, from the instructions I've seen. I was given a reference to an installer, but he is working on the singer Pink's kitchen right now and so is not available. I see no reason not to do it ourselves anyway. I wonder what Pink's kitchen is going to look like.

I think what happens is you see what you don't have and despite the negatives we just want it. I had a side-b-side and liked it fine but others drooled over it. ... It was just ok at the time. It was fancy at the time 20 yrs ago. Free from a rich persons dump when renovating. But we did liked the upright standing use of the fridge side. This was in our NYC loft where you could rollerblade from front to back it was so big. Great for 30 somethings like we were. (hot as the desert in the summer months and cold as the arctic in the winter.) Charming for the 20 yrs we did that. (it photographed well and was in many publications) but not reality. Though we were smart and had a bedroom connected to a huge bathroom and laundry that had a heat and air-conditioning source. The bath and walk-in closet was about 50x30ft. So we had a warm/cool place to be. The rest was a football field of fun.

I like the choice you made. When cooking is so important, it makes sense to get what makes life easier. I put in a single tall dish drawer dishwasher that we LOVE. Others might not like it but it is great for us. We run it often and like the drawer.

I hope you like the new stove. It should work fine with your cabinets.

We have installed the SS backsplash (still covered with bluish protective plastic, and we will finish that installation tomorrow. Because our wall is not flat and is plaster from 1950 (when the house was built) instead of drywall, we will have to install clips at the bottom of the SS where we now have a temporary wooden cleat. Right now we have temporary clips at the side while the glue cures, but we will remove those tomorrow, fill the holes, and paint. We are a little disappointed with how our cabinets do not line up properly, but I think we can live with that. It will never look perfect, but then very few people ever see my kitchen. I think we can make it photogenic enough, however. The plaster wall was flat above the counters, but below the counter tops, it bows in the middle. We noticed problems with our walls when we had the counter tops installed, but I disguised the imperfections with paint.

We should be getting our new range installed in the next few days or so - sometime during next week.

Here's how it looks today. Note that the old stove is still on the casters we got to make it easier to move. The new range should be here this week, and it will look very different. We did not need the stainless steel backsplash with the old range, but the new one will definitely need it, as its back will be about 1/4" lower than our counter backsplash. The front of the new range is supposed to be 35-1/2" high, which is 1/2" lower than the countertop, and so we will have to see how that looks.

I'm glad we were able to get the new backsplash up ourselves, but it was definitely a week-end project and not something we could have done on Wed-Thursday.

Congratulations on your new backsplash. I just wanted to mention, your new range should have adjustable feet. It should be able to be leveled to your countertop. The 1/2" should be no problem.

Thanks, Gooster. That is good to know, and I will make a point to have them get the new range to the correct height. When the refrigerator was delivered, the installer told me that it does not have levelers because it is on casters, but the manual says that the casters do have a leveling adjustment. I guess it is okay, but I might look at it again in a couple of weeks.

The best for me is to have the top of the grill at the exact same level as the counter. This way shifting a large pan from counter to stove, or vise versa, will not be an issue.

dcarch