If you did a good winterizer app there should be no need for any type of fertilizer now at green up. It should have stored nitrogen from the winterizer app that it will be using now. It's best to use a slow release (possibly even better to use an organic fert) in late spring once the initial growth spurt is over. In my area this is around Memorial Day but it could be a little later for you.

One possible exception is adding light doses of quick relaease N to KBG to promote spreading this time of year. I'm not a KBG expert so you might want to verify this.

Thanks for the response.

Last year, I fertilized the front yard properly, and it looks good, so I am not too worried about it. It's really more my back yard, which didn't get as good a winterizer application last year, which looks pretty bad.

I intend to go fully organic at some point, but with 25K square feet, it will run me ~$210 per application to lay down alfalfa pellets at 20lb/1k with local prices. That's about 3-4 times what I can budget for it right now.

I do have a typical northern mix of KGB, TTTF and FF. I'd like to encourage as much KBG spreading as possible to thicken up the lawn. Last winter was a tough winter - it looks like this year will take a lot of recovery.

I'm nearly in the same boat as you with a 20k lawn of all TTTF. My plan is to drop alfalfa at 10lbs per k next week with a milorganite app closer to Memorial day. From there it will be ride it out until September with a milo app folowed by multiple urea apps leading up to my urea winterizer sometime in late December. I'm sure Morpheaus can give you some tips on using urea right now with the KBG to promote spreading.

I randomly came across a photo of your lawn in another thread - you have amazing turf!

I just got a flyer in from TSC with 10kg (22lb) bags of 30-0-8 for $10. $40 will be enough to drop 1.25lbs on my whole lawn. I may stock up for the fall at this price.

Sorry, missed this thread!

Zone 4B/5A is pretty wide, so could you let me know your nearest city?

Fast release urea is actually just fine for lawns, used at 1 pound nitrogen (2.2 pounds product for pure urea) per thousand square feet. Which is about the amount you want to use in late spring anyway, and I'd apply around June 1st.

Application before then will do more harm than good.

Spreading is more of a late spring/early fall thing anyway, so feeding then will be best for that. Then strike it fairly hard in fall, although organics would be better for that. If you still want to use urea, drop half rate around August 15, and every 15 days thereafter. That'll push spreading to the maximum rate.

Hi morpheusPA.

I'm near Cornwall, ON, Canada for a point of reference.

As far as spreading, I know I *do* have some KBG in my lawn. The spreading becomes apparent when I weed my flower beds. I tore out tons of KBJ that all has rhizomes leading back into my grass. Also, if you check this thread below, you will see that my lawn was mostly taken over by weeds until I did a massive weed kill last summer:

http://aroundtheyard.com/northern/three-week-wbg-results-t14941.html

My front yard has filled in quite well for the most part, although I'll be posting a thread shortly with some pics of areas that need some help. Around the fringes of my property, I have some real thin grass areas. I can attribute some to shade, but others are hard to tell. They are covered in moss and out compete the grass. I suspect my soil is too acidic in these areas.

A good soil test is the only way to make sure your soil is in shape, but I'm not sure what the options are in Ontario. I have no idea if you can ship to Logan Labs or whether that violates some international law somewhere.

(thinking) I'd almost rather have you use a heavier dose of organics rather than urea. With your summers you can probably get spreading through the entire limited growth season.

Application monthly through spring, summer, and early fall (whatever dates those actually turn out to be up there) would provide a steady trickle of resources into the lawn.

Morph,

Yes, I can ship to Logan Labs from here. The main problem is that I have 25k square feet of lawn, and I probably have about 10 different soil areas that would probably need separate tests. IE, some are the original soil on the property, other areas have fill that was brought in (from various sources). Some has been sitting under cedar trees for 100+ years with yearly needle drops etc. Some is very sandy, some has perfect tilth. It's kind of all over the map.

In short, if I'm going to do testing, I probably would have to do 10 or so tests to get a comprehensive view of the property. I'm not sure that's something worth ~$300 for test fees and shipping to get done right away.

Given that the vast bulk of my property was neglected for ~25 years prior to me working on it starting last fall, I've already seen some huge gains just from spraying WBG, feeding the lawn a few times, and mowing high. I'd like to try that for another year to see if some of the remaining 'problem areas' recover before starting a testing regime targeting the remaining spots.

I'm just reviewing organic fertilizers that are locally available again. To get 20lb/k applications, I'll need ~500lbs to do my property.

Any thoughts on rolled oats? At 16% protein, I can get them for ~$14.75 / 55lb bag. Whole oats can be had at $14 / 100lb bag, but I don't want oat plants in my lawn ;)

Alfalfa (12% protein) is expensive here. $19 / 55lb bag for pellets. $14.99 / 50lb bag of 1.25" cubes.

Cracked Corn (9% protein) is $10.50 / 55lb bag.

Wheat bran (16% protein) is ~$14.75 / 55lb bag.

I haven't been able to locate SBM or CGM. Need to call the local feedstore to get them priced.

My biggest issue is cost - I don't want to have to swing $100-$150 per monthly application to feed my lawn. As much as I want great grass and a nice property, it's well below my family in my general order of priority for spending. If I can somehow cut back to 2-3 applications over the growing season (with perhaps a late fall winterizer urea app), that's workable.

You can certainly apply organics as much or as little as you wish, and that's fine. So 2 or 3 apps per year is not a problem, and fill in with synthetics otherwise. Even my really-well-fed lawn only sees four organic apps per year and my growing season is far longer.

Barring SBM or CGM there, it looks like either wheat bran or rolled oats would give you the best bang for the buck...which actually isn't very much bang, to tell you the truth. Application rates of either would have to be 45 pounds per thousand to get down 1 pound of nitrogen equivalent (about 7.2 pounds of protein).

So I'd say if you can't get SBM (15 pounds per thousand) or CGM (variable, but around 12 pounds per thousand), apply however much wheat or oats as you can and fill in synthetically.

You'll have to let me know.

Contrary to popular opinion, there's no problem using synthetics on a well-tuned soil, although you do have to keep a closer eye on the soil. Synthetics will tend to leach out resources faster on average. Plus a soil where resources aren't properly tuned will rapidly descend into a see-saw condition where more synthetics are required for decreasing effect.

I hear you on the soil tests. I might take one test from the soil that's the most representative of the lawn performance and go with that, making the assumption--known invalid but probably close enough--that the rest of the soil is reasonably similar. Fortunately, with worms turning the soils and moving them around, over time it does tend to even out. Or if you have one or two soil types that are dominant and form the primary soil, test that one or those two.

Following up on this conversation a year later.

Budget reasons prevented me from doing too much with the lawn last year, although I *did* put down an application of cracked corn in late spring.

This year I'm in a better work position and am looking at options. TSC has rolled oats now for $12.01 per 55lb bag. My plan is to lay down a light application of Urea (0.5lb / k) tonight ahead of the rainstorm tomorrow, then follow up with a ~15lb / k application of rolled oats on Saturday. The urea should provide a quick boost until the microherd has a chance to work on the oats.

My goal is three further organic feeds spread between now and September, with a late fall Urea winterizer application.

Regardless of my varying soil quality, I'm hoping that regular application of organic matter can only be a good thing.

I can't think of too many conditions where I object to adding OM or feeding organically. Certainly it'd be almost unheard-of for those to exist in a home lawn situation!

It sounds like a good plan. The urea will give you a boost, the oats will give a weak but sustained feeding for months (and also enhance your soil biology). I'm just coming up on my first organic feeding as well, once I can get out to buy the stuff...