Thank you, allsande, for that news .. I'm trying to cut down my chewing gum habit. I chew Xtra-trident sugarless gum .. it cleans my last molar well (hard to reach area). Great dental-check-ups for the past years. I'm down to 1 stick of gum per day (I divide it into 3 parts).

Just to clarify: A recent study identified a connection between long-term use of artificial sweeteners and increased risk of stroke IN MICE.

I'm glad I'm not a mouse.

(Did the sugar lobby fund the study?)

o j ... sometimes related to "cynic" ... I think

Of course it was in mice. This is how all medical research starts. You don't really think they'd feed artificial sweeteners to humans and see what happens, do you? They could follow established users of artificial sweeteners, but then they'd have to rely on the subjects' accuracy in record keeping and reporting--an iffy proposition.

I'm not a big fan of experimenting on animals, and I'm waiting for science to come up with a humane alternative. I hope these researchers don't proceed from mice to beagles. If I were using artificial sweeteners, the above would be enough evidence for me.

There have been studies that involve humans, they've been epidemiological (find people that do and don't have a particular habit or pattern and then follow what happens over time)

Here's one involving humans

Animals used in research are work animals - just as the Golden Retriever or Shepherd who guides a sightless person through town, the horses that pulled your ancestors plows and wagons, the chickens that lay eggs, cows that give milk, the animals raised for meat, etc, etc. There are standards for ethical treatment of research animals that all responsible institutions enforce religiously. I know, I have family members so involved.

Without research animals, most (maybe all?) of the medical advances of the last 75 years would have been impossible. Not just most all drugs, but things like organ transplants, blood dialysis, various heart valve and vessel procedures, knee and hip transplants, (and on and on and on) were developed using research animals. Oh, and also research on genetic diseases, auto-immune conditions, etc. The list is endless.

If your ethical positions lead you to accept NO medical treatments because of the use of animals, then fine, there's no hypocrisy. Otherwise, you can't claim the benefits but criticize the process that produced them.

Regarding not feeding artificial sweeteners to humans for testing? Isn't that what they've been doing with aspartame? And now diet pepsi is switching to splenda (sucralose) in August. Without doing the research, I don't believe splenda (sucralose) has had the extensive testing as the aspartame. I do drink an occasional diet pepsi, but I've purchased my last. Probably the best thing I could do for my health anyway.

The abstract actually says that the experiment suggests that sweeteners should be studied.

The purpose and results of the experiment were to show that two classes of artificial sweeteners were bad for healing when a stroke was induced in mice, in a way that sugar wasn't. The sweeteners didn't cause the initial stokes.

I believe sucralose/Splenda has been incriminated in organ shrinkage, but it's been some time since I read that.

I don't get why they need all these studies. Isn't it just common sense that people shouldn't be eating/drinking things like artificial sweeteners? It baffles me why people are still ingesting this poison.

My guess is the link between artificial sweeteners and health problems also is due to the fact that people who use them are also likely to make other bad choices. Human ones anyway. I'm sure the animal tests are regulated for diet.

I've heard from people I know that at some medical and other healthcare (ie, dental) schools where human cadavers are used for anatomy classes, that a memorial service is held at the end of each term for the anatomy students and family members of the decedents. The purpose is to commemorate and pay proper respect to those who allowed their mortal remains to be used for educational purposes.

Without getting too specific, the bodies of many deceased animals used in research are very often classed as bio-hazardous material and must be given special handling. For these, burial in a lab's outdoor garden wouldn't be permitted.

Back to the topic, I agree with chi83.

My favorite: My SIL has diabetes which she takes pills for. She eats everything, always a regular size dessert, but asks for artificial sweetener for her coffee or tea.

I, too, don't like the idea of the artificial sweeteners. They are putting out natural sweeteners, but I question them too.

Is it the artificial sweeteners or all the processed foods people are eating that are full of sugar itself? Remove processed food from your diet, you open your arteries, lower blood pressure, lower blood glucose and feel terrific! I use artificial sweetener daily. Not much. But daily.

I think it's both, Debby. The fact that they need so many studies done on the safety to me is a red flag that we shouldn't be using it, even if it proves that it's not immediately harmful. A tiny bit probably won't do any harm but I still think a little bit of real sugar is better than chemicals. I think they've also seen that keeping artificial sugar in the diet may not give calories but the body still treats it as sugar, which is not ideal.

I think everyone is in agreement that processed foods are bad for us. We also eat way way way too much sugar, and I think that's a major part of the problem. Americans (and other countries with similar diets) want everything sweet. That's why there's such a market for the artificial stuff.

I always feel great when I remove all sugar from my diet except for that naturally occurring in food, like fruit. It's hard though. I have a major sweet tooth!

I'm fine drinking water or soda water, but I can't stand to have sugar in my beverages unless it's something like a margarita or milkshake (neither of which I'm apt to consume more than once a year or two). If I'm going to drink a flavored soda, it'll be one of the "healthy" kinds that are more like flavored water and don't have sugar, or it'll have artificial sweetener. Drinks with sugar in them just aren't refreshing to me, and I hate the way the sugar seems to coat my teeth. Ellendi, it might be that your SIL is like that. I also get low blood sugar when the only sugars I'm getting are from whole grains and fruits. Maybe your SIL needs to have a few high glycemic things in her diet to prevent that kind of thing, especially since she's taking the pills.

So many people go off half-cocked about their pet items. Declaring them poisons, dangerous or whatever else when it's unproven. Whether it be sweeteners, HFCS, GMOs, grapes... or a myriad of other things. And there's usually a "study" to support it. And people ignore what really is important to health and welfare.

Now what we REALLY have to take action on is saliva. The silent, sprawling killer. Yes, saliva. Spit, drool, mouth water, grandma's contribution to the fund or whatever you want to call it. Studies have shown that people with cancer, diabetes, strokes, heart disease and even the common cold ALL have swallowed saliva most all of their lives. Telemarketers all swallow saliva on a regular basis. 100% of people killed while texting and driving are suspected of swallowing saliva around the time of their death. But it appears that it's worst when swallowed in relatively small amounts. STOP THIS KILLER SALIVA!!!!!! It must be stopped. Wear clothes today to show your support to stop this killer.

Oh, and "You don't really think they'd feed artificial sweeteners to humans and see what happens, do you?"

Uh, yeah. That's what's been done for the past 50-75 years! LOL

Well, in my book, if something won't outright kill or severely harm you isn't the same as it being completely safe. And usually you can find studies supporting whichever view you want depending on who is sponsoring it, sad to say.

I just avoid foods made in factories. Seems to cover all the bases.

There is something else that will end up killing you. It's called living.

I'm wagering I will outlive those who are hastening their demise with all the stress and fear they live under regarding food, the air, water, the bogeyman, etc.

Well, not caring for your health because you'll die anyway seems a little short-sighted but to each his own!

I tried a Sweet and Low many years ago and it was horrible stuff. I also tried Splenda and found it too sweet. Same with some kind of herbal stuff.

I signed up at one of those weight-loss companies and they tore a streak off me because I wasn't using an artificial sweetener and was using sugar. I told them I wouldn't buy or use it, only sugar.

I'm wagering I will outlive those who are hastening their demise with all the stress and fear they live under regarding food, the air, water, the bogeyman, etc.

There's a difference between "stress and fear" and being sensible. I define a sensible decision as one we're not likely to regret later.

When my first baby was born (a lot of years ago) I decided to feed my family a variety of foods in as close to their natural state as possible. At no time has this felt even the slightest bit like living in fear.

Yeah, we're all going to die eventually anyway. We can be overweight and not worry about it. We can eat fried food every day at fast food places. We can also smoke, drink excessively, and have a good time doing it. Such attitudes are nothing more than a rationalization for ignoring the writing on the wall. Like smokers do with the health warnings for tobacco, or why overweight people brush off the need to diet.

Sit down, alisande, because I mostly agree with you. Maybe not to the same extent, or in the same ways, as your life style would direct, but I agree with the basics of what you say.

Sensible decisions can be later regretted, but they're based on thoughtful consideration and a risk assessment using what's known at the time.

I don't think all processed foods are bad for us. There are plenty I consider healthy.

Which ones do you consider healthy, happilady? Just curious.

Fruit

Healthy processed foods? Frozen and canned fruits and vegetables, many milks and cheeses, many yogurts, chicken and beef broth, some breakfast cereals to start. I don't see anything to concern me in my Bolthouse Farms products or Amy's frozen foods. My Hunts ketchup looks fine.

Just because I don't know what an ingredient is or how it's pronounced doesn't automatically make it bad.

I'm not sure what year, but the FDA allowed the warning label removed from Sweet and Low (saccharin). Stating it caused cancer in mice but not humans. I will stand corrected if I'm wrong. I'm not saying it's good for you, but may be the lesser of evils regarding sweeteners.

Changing the subject a bit, but does anyone remember when they used to say caffeine was removed from coffee with dry cleaning fluid? Was that true? That's pretty scary. LOL I honestly don't know what's safe to eat and drink anymore. And don't get me started on how quickly they roll out new prescription drugs..then the recalls start. Now that's what I call using humans for testing.