I guess what I am wondering is if the reason why people are now wanting to spray oil later is that everyone is using light oils and they don't work very well in full dormant periods. So, maybe the heavy oils actually would work well in full dormant, just as well or better as a lighter oil later. I looked around for studies of different kinds of oil compared and could not find anything (well I found one paper stating that heavier oils are more effective but just that sentence). There still is at least one heavier dormant-only oil being sold that is made by PBI Gordon. Hey I just found an interesting old study, see below. It states that heavier oils work better, but it also points out that the rosy apple aphid wakes up later and that is the biggest aphid problem for apples showing the importance of a later spray. On apples the rosy apple aphid is about the only reason why I spray oil so it sounds like I should aim my oil spray at them only, and do the later spray with lighter oil. Harvestman, this may be the reason why you prefer the later spray. This study suggest lime-sulphur later because the light hort oils did not exist when it was written. Overall, it sounds like for scale a heavier oil is better at delayed dormant, and for aphids a light hort oil later is better. Scott Here is a link that might be useful: study

Spray with labled product - I'd recommend right now as the trees are either dormant or just breaking bud or as early as timing allows when the tree begins leafing - that they be sprayed with one application of Liquid Sulphur when it's cool outside and either early morning or early evening. To be followed with: (watch the leaves and any sign spray again).... liquid copper fungicide exactly as the tree has 2/3, 1/2 of it's flowers opened (spray gently don't blast the flowers off), followed with a few 2 or 3 more applications of liquid copper. Liquid copper just like the Sulphur, needs also to be applied during times of cool temperatures similarily (below 60 F or below 15.5 C). Or you buy anything labled such as HOME DEPOT's OR LOWE's, or your local hardware stores version of "Tree Fungicide/Fruit Tree Spray", etc - and treat them at the same times I have listed for you and also 4 to 5 more times per year. Lastly. YOU MUST rake up all leaves in fall so none are left. Don't let the leaves settle under other plants such as Roses, Hawthorns, Dogwoods, or other trees or shrubs that are highly succeptible to blights. I used to spray trees... Dax P.s. The organic route is the Sulphur and Copper. It may be used on all your other fruit trees as well. Apples (Crabapples and Cherries) all get their first applications using Sulphur. The rest of your fruit trees/"flowering trees", use Liquid Copper for all 4 to 5 annual sprays. Dogwood's I'd probably spray with Liquid Sulphur early as well or other, quote 'problematic' or already known "problematic trees" you have noticed showing unusual signs of stress. Never deviate from any product's label! And don't spray folks if you aren't experiencing any problems! That would be a waste of money and silly as well:-)

WinterCat what are your temperatures currently over there? Also, are the plants currently foliated? I would not hesitate to use the mix in temps of up to 28C as long as spraying would take place either at dawn or at dusk. I would use up to 50 or 60 ml of oil per 1lt of spraying mixture if the plant is foliated but I would go up to 100ml if it currently isn't. Assuming abamectin is at the usual 1.8% solution I would use 1ml of that per 1lt of spraying liquid. Oils should be always mixed last in the tank. Mixing them before the other substance may mess up with the solubility and stability of the other substance. All the above are things I have done based on expert suggestion and I'm talking from experience gardening in a climate not too dissimilar to yours. Nik PS Abamectin mainly targets mature stages of the mites while oil mainly targets the eggs. That's why efficacy is increased when combined. Depending on the mite targeted and the prevailing temps a repeat application would be necessary between 7-15 days after the first (but you have already applied the first). I would not repeat abamectin application for a third time before a few months go by. If you need to re-spray you will have to use an acaricide with a different mode of action. You can always combine with oil as long as the temps are not too high and the pesticide label does not preclude it. Where I live most mites are not yet active so only oil would be necessary until late April or so, but your temps might be such that acarea are already in their mature stage and active. This post was edited by nikthegreek on Wed, Mar 5, 14 at 4:35

I'm z7a, 5700 ft high desert. Most of my roses are in raised beds and containers. I have lots of mature trees and the soil was covered with black plastic and 8 inches of rock for 62 years. I can't even image what would happen to a poor rose if I just plunked it down into the poor ground level soil filled with mature tree roots. Oh my. A mature tree is an wonderful investment that somebody else made a long time ago that you get to have. I would never cut down a mature tree just for roses. And I am crazy about roses. I'd just focus on the magic of shade and shadow and do roses elsewhere. One of the reasons I started focusing more on containers rather than just going without where I couldn't do a raised bed, it was from eating at a favorite cafe that has absolutely magical outside dining. It was the way pots of plants, even potted trees, were fitted within stone walls and pergolas and mature trees and string lights. And I realized how fantastic container gardens can look. I notice when I'm in someone's beautiful garden that my favorite spots are the ones where both ground plantings and container plants are combined. I love pots. I even have a large climbing rose growing in a container. I cut out the bottom of the pot so it's open to the ground and filled it with amended/enhanced native soil. I just add compost/composted manure on top every year. Also I line the interior of my pots to stop root circling, which I sometimes think is the "secret sauce" to container gardening. And of course if the pot bottom is cut out, you create a kind of hybrid pot/raised bed environment. When there's a will, there's a way. I'm originally from a climate and topography that's perfect for roses, and while I love where I'm living now, I absolutely sometimes miss the ideal growing conditions, where roses can grow like weeds. But my spouse always says "Oh please, ANYBODY can grow roses there...you're something special, here. " Haha! As far as a continual blooming rose, the closest for me is a polyantha "Ellen Poulsen". It's a blooming machine with very little rest between flushes. After that I would say "Sexy Sexy" is my quickest rebloomer. The miniatures are a whole different league, the turnaround can be days instead of weeks. When you have enough roses, there is always something in bloom anyway and the anticipation for the next flush can be wonderful. Actually, I just now realized, Bonica is without a doubt the closest I've ever experienced as continual blooming. It always seems to have blooms on it. I forgot about Bonica! Sorry, Bonica, I do love you. The only caveat I have about raised beds is if you build them within a trees drip line, that sometimes trees can be sensitive to the extra soil on top of their feeder roots and may possibly decline.