Please check out my kitchen "skeleton"
A few months ago I asked for advice on a expanding our small
kitchen, and the feedback I rec’d led us to re-imagine our first floor layout (Thank
you! I think…)
So, now I’m back seeking guidance on the general layout of
this kitchen plan. I’ve included the
proposed first floor design but I must say that we’re happy and very settled with
the placement of the kitchen in the floor-plan.
I don’t want to go into too much detail yet about individual
design elements as this is pretty preliminary, and consequently this drawing is
a bit rough. It’s basically a skeleton
and what I’m asking is - do I have a workable skeleton? Are all of the major objects in good
locations? Do you see any pitfalls, or does anyone have
any clever designs that make better use of the space?
We are empty nesters and this will typically be a one cook
kitchen. We mostly cook on the
weekends, we cook from scratch and enjoy baking. We entertain every couple of months, usually
open house, buffet style. I think my
biggest desire is storage. Our current counter/cabinet space is an 11x6 L. We use a 36” wide closet as a pantry and
store overflow in the basement. We don’t
buy in bulk, it just seems like we have lots of ingredients and gear. Our pots & pans overfill
a 36” base cab and 2 32” wall racks. Fortunately
we’ll have a built in cupboard in the DR that will hold lot of dishware.
The one appliance we'll keep is a recently purchased wall
oven. I’m short and don’t like a stacked
oven/MW cabinet. We don’t use the MW
much, so I envision a little MW tucked into the cabinetry somewhere.
The left wall is exterior. There are 2 windows, but neither is appropriately sized or
positioned, so they either need to change or go so they are not included here. We’re thinking no windows
at all; the view is unsightly. I
assume this wall is the best place for the cook top, since we could vent the
range hood here. The cook top will be 30” induction. Would you center the cook top on this
wall? I enjoy symmetry, but it feels a
bit far from the sink.
I haven’t drawn in the countertop for the peninsula – we are
debating counter height vs. bar height. We don’t like a sink or cook top
on the peninsula. Is there enough of an
aisle at the end of the peninsula? Is it
a problem that the fridge doors open into that aisle?
DH really wants at least one section of functional butcher
block, and I’m not opposed to all butcher block countertops, though I’ve always
wanted soapstone. Here I go talking about design details when I
only meant to ask about layout, so this is a good place to end.
TIA - Di
Comments (20)
sheloveslayouts
9 years agoRelated Discussions
Please check out my rose selections
Comments (15)The size stated by Chamblee's is very conservative for 'Mrs. Dudley Cross' based upon its growth in my garden. By listing it as 3'-6' x 3'-4', that would lead one to believe that it is possible for their specimen to only grow to 3' tall by 3' wide on the lower end of the range. In my experience, that is ridiculous. You would have to prune the crud out of it constantly to keep it that small and in doing so would ruin its natural beauty. My Mrs Dudley Cross is many years old, but I could probably keep it at 6' x 4' IF I pruned it fairly often. The plant would be happier being allowed to grow a little larger than that (after several years of course). It's a fantastic rose, you will love it I'm sure. Try not to crowd it, if you can. Randy...See MoreHave You Checked Out Your Dryer Lint Filter & Vent? Check Out My
Comments (20)Been there, done that...lint is such a HUGE annoyance to my life. We're in a 2nd floor condo where the dryer vent ducting goes to the roof through the attic over 20 feet and several elbows. My husband bought the condo years before we met, and the ducting was clogged after several years. At the time, he decided to disconnect the vent from the duct. The resulting moisture did some damage to the cabinetry (swelling of the particle board, even under layers of oil-based paint). Soon after we married, he decided we needed to fix the problem correctly. He went up into the attic and disassembled the ducting, brought it outside, and blew it out with his air compressor. I pushed some cleaning tool through it as well. We can't be doing this regularly! I mean preferably, never again! So, I had him put a filter -- a gallon paint strainer -- over the dryer vent where it connects to the machine. This clogs every month or so, we pull the machine out, disconnect the vent, clean the strainer, and put it back. This is still an annoying chore, but not the nightmare of dealing with the whole duct run. My husband had a cool idea, that what we need to do is sew a new, longer strainer that tapers to a skinny point, so that even when it clogs at the point, there can still be air flowing past the clogged strainer, and we should be able to go longer between cleanings. We got a new dryer last summer, and pulled the ducting out of the attic to clean it -- but it was already clean as a whistle. So, our secondary filter system has kept the duct run clean for 9 years. I found you can buy secondary lint traps with a door that opens to clean them out, but we don't have room to install the box in our laundry room, and I don't think it would work any better or be easier to clean than our homemade filter. When I redo the floor, I plan to put magic slider thingies under the dryer feet to make it easier to move in and out, plus I won't want to gouge my new floor. I have researched other solutions. People claim that solid metal vent will maintain better airflow than pleated, but I think it will still clog because we need 2 90-degree elbows to get it connected to the duct in the wall. And if it clogs, how do we pull out the machine with a non-stretching vent? If we could move the duct in the wall to match the dryer vent outlet, that would eliminate 2 elbows and would probably help... I also found you can install a secondary fan in the ducting near the exit, increasing the airspeed in long ducts so the lint won't clog. They cost $150-200, but if I never had to clean out the duct run or pull out the dryer to clean my makeshift secondary lint trap ever again, it would be well worth it. I also think that our ducting is leaky somewhere, because rooms on the other side of the wall (our master bath) get crusted with lint all the time. Finding and sealing those leaks would probably improve airspeed some, plus save me tons of work cleaning the lint all the time. I think the additional fan is the way to go. In 2 other areas where we replaced an ineffective low-cfm cheap fan with a high-cfm good one, like the hood over our cooktop, it made an amazing difference, night and day. Here is a link that might be useful: example of dryer duct fan...See MoreEclectic, Tuscan Kitchen........Need help check out my photos
Comments (25)Yes, my ceilings are 8 feet. I would have to leave off the glass part at the top. We are opeing up the wall which is where the penninsula will be, then a few feet out from the penninsula my ceilings raise to 16 feet in the living room with 2 skylights in the celing and lots of natural light. I really thought this would prevent the darks wood from becoming to heavy, also combining it with the lighter elemtns it helps brighten things up. I do want to put in handscraped hickory hardwood floors. This would be throughout the kitchen, dining room, and living room. I like the tile but I want the flow of having the floors all the same. I knew there would be people who don't like this kitchen. It's definitely not for eveyone, and I respect that. It makes a very strong statement. You can correct me on the eclectic if you like. I call that mixing the different elements, details, finishes, and embellishments. I do agree it's tuscan, antique looking. I am worried about using it in "my smaller space" That is why I posted here to get ideas. I appreciate all suggestions and all thoughts negative or positive. I do think not having enough space is a huge concern. One reason I thought this style would work is because we are opening this space up and removing a wall. Our living room is large. There are only two of us living here. Empty nesters. I can't see the expense of expanding. Not in this econmic climate and the area I live in. I was hoping by opening up the space it would give us a nice entertaining area. It is a load bearing wall so a support column is needed at the end of the penninsula. For this reason I really can't have an island. I am limited, I do have to be realistic. That's not always easy!...See Moreplease check out my revised layout
Comments (14)May I ask more questions? 1. How frequently do you think you'll be baking? I absolutely agree that you do not want to go on a two-island walkabout to place batter in the oven. So, I recommend that arrangement be reworked. Since baking usually involves intensive prep followed by long term oven time, during which you don't need to hover over the oven, I like out of the way baking centers (relatively speaking), and I like them to have an oven included. However, take care that the oven will not open into a major traffic area (see question below about where doorways lead). 2. I take it the areas that show up on either side of the hutch are doorways? Where do they lead? I ask because my kitchen is sized somewhat similarly to yours, but one side's opening is closer to the butler's pantry and dining room, while the other is closer to the breakfast room. What ends up happening, at least in my household, is that people who clear the table bring the dishes to the sink closest to the room where they ate. That means, if they ate in the breakfast room, they tend to put dirty dishes in the dishwasher in the island; and if they ate in the dining room, they tend to pile dishes in the big cleanup sink on the wall that backs up to the pantry, or into the dishwasher next to that. When I put the dishwasher in the island, next to the prep sink, I did it because I foresaw having dirty prep implements that would need to be washed, not because I accurately foresaw the traffic pattern from the breakfast room. However, "if it's convenient, they will come," so, I recommend a dishwasher near the prep sink, especially if that will be closer to one or more of your post meal traffic patterns. (The kids will be old enough to help one of these days.) Some would disagree, but I thought you'd want to hear all viewpoints. 3. I try to avoid any kitchen aisles less than 42" if more than one person could be in the kitchen. You'll have kids in there baking and prepping with you, eventually? Or hubby? Or caterer? Have you looked at the NKBA aisle guidelines? 4. I agree with everyone about not wanting to corner an island to use the three basic sink/prep/stove points. I only gave a cursory glance at above posts, so forgive me if I repeat others' suggestions. 5. The back-to-back seating arrangement is not conducive to social interaction. Too narrow an aisle, wrong orientation for conversation. Also, I prefer island seating to be at the distant end of an island, furthest away from the prep/cooking action. I believe that's the safest placement, for cook and kids/guests. If that would be too far away, I would consider reorienting the island or islands so that they are rectangular with long sides paralleling 36" sink wall. 6. It's going to be a wonderful space! I need to get back to chores. ;^(...See Moreratdogheads z5b NH
9 years agoThanks for the feedback! I’m listening with an open mind and eager to
tinker with various suggestions.Some answers and follow up questions:
We’re leaning toward no windows. That side of the house has a messy view: AC, Trash, lawn equipment, woodpile. We plan ample lighting and the main room has
large windows and is quite bright.The area between the beams is living space. The only eating areas are the counter &
DR. Our DR doesn’t get much use. There is a structural impediment to opening
the kitchen DR wall (see pic). We plan a
built in cupboard there. There would be
only a slight overhang at the end of the peninsula, and no seating on the
end. The measurement is counter edge to fridge
handle, allowing 31” for total fridge depth.AnnKH, many good points, thanks for the reassurance that I
have enough space, I need to quit obsessing. Where would you put an island? Island or peninsula, it’s important that we
have at least a couple seats in or adjacent to the kitchen.jlc712, I do like the feel of the fridge on the sink/DW
wall, but as I read it - it sounds like you’re
saying just flip the placement of the fridge and the peninsula base, and I can’t
see how that gives me a bigger opening. I
must be missing something in your suggestion, could you elaborate?Desertsteph, if we were to put the oven by the stove, how
much counter would you recommend between oven and stove?Dining Room/Kitchen wall:
Jillius
9 years agolast modified: 9 years agoI actually think it's pretty good as-is. I have three notes:
1) You definitely need more room between the end of the peninsula and the fridge. Enough so that someone can pass behind another person who is standing in front of the open fridge. I would suggest making that walkway at least 60" or more. You'll end up with a peninsula long enough for two people to sit at.
Not only will this prevent a pinch point at the fridge, but also a wide entrance/exit to the kitchen like that will prevent the "trapped" feeling that so many people report when they have kitchens that are this shape.
2) For the dead corner next to the wall ovens, do an appliance garage like this:
That looks nice and makes use of a counter you'd never use otherwise. It would be a great place for your little-used microwave.
3) In general, I think you should make every effort to bring natural light into this space. It will do SO much for how spacious it feels and how pleasant it is to be in. To that end, I'd:
a. Do a large passbar above the sink, so light from the front of the house can get into the kitchen. You could also put seating under the passbar. Like so:
You can see how dark that kitchen in the picture is WITH the pass bar. Imagine without -- it'd be a cave!
b. I would revisit having windows on the stove wall that are more about bringing in light than the view. Options would include clerestory windows, frosted windows, glass brick, glass block, stained glass, etc. Some examples here:
desertsteph
9 years agoJillius
9 years agolast modified: 9 years agoAs for your specific questions:
i) I would center the cook top. That is basically where you want it to be for functional reasons anyway, and you'll be able to see that wall very well when you are approaching the kitchen. You will have a good vantage for seeing the symmetry, and it will look nice. (As opposed to centering something that you will never be able to see head-on, so who cares if it's centered.) Also, your stove when centered definitely isn't too far from the sink. Actually, doing that gives you an almost perfect amount of counter between the two to really have space to get some work done, but still be able to dump a pot of boiling water in the sink without having to walk too far.
ii) I think you could do a combination of butcher block and soapstone quite easily by having the peninsula be butcher block. It is handy to the sink, so it'd be a great prep area. Like this:
Here is a link to more photos of that finished kitchen: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2550583/bricktons-finished-kitchen
If you were doing an induction range (instead of just an induction cooktop), I could also see doing everything in soapstone except doing butcher block on just that section of counter between the range and the fridge wall.
Here is a new layout with all my suggestions incorporated. I also made the fridge wall cabinets a bit deeper (even counter depth fridge are not 24"). And I deepened the peninsula so you can have standard 24" cabinets under it and still have a 12" overhang, plus you have plenty of space to make that counter deeper, and a that is just more great work space, so why not?
Lavender Lass
9 years agoI agree with comments above. You need more room to open fridge (shorter peninsula) and some windows on that wall. What about clerestory, over the upper cabinets? Or larger windows (no uppers) with a pergola on that side of the house? :)
jlc712
9 years ago
sena01
9 years agoBuehl's island gave me another idea. On the long wall 36 pantry, oven (not sure about the size of the cab/fillers), 24+1 for DW and 30-33" sink(depending on oven cab size) after 36 corner cab 18" drwrs, cooktop, 21" drwrs and fridge.
İsland sink is 18", o/h 15. When there's just the 2 of you I think one of you can sit on the wall side though the aisle there is 39" (42" in front of the fridge)
ratdogheads z5b NH thanked sena01ratdogheads z5b NH
9 years ago
Buehl