srahndennis, yeah, it was especially interesting when several were working for competing brands; that isn't a problem anymore :) My brother is very complimentary about Showplace, he says it is the best value cabinet he has been involved with. They do lots of custom work but at a semi-custom price. Well, custom sizes and cabinet configurations, but not custom stains,species, or door styles. He also worked for a custom builder called Actua for awhile, but I couldn't remember that name before. Actua went bye-bye a long time ago during an earlier recession. The guy who started Showplace also started Decora and Starmark; this is his third brand and sounds like the third time is a charm! Crystal is a great cabinet too, but much higher priced; at least that is what I think I know. Lyptus is BEAUTIFUL and has a great "green" story; it ages like cherry and looks like mahogany ... I think darker colors look best, but that is personal preference. On the formaldehyde subject; most national brands that sell in California are required to live by the rules set by California (if you want to get deep into it Google "CARB" to get some "light" bedtime reading; maybe you've heard the term)... those are the best you'll find. The smaller "custom" shops would not have to live by the California rules, but still might be OK; you'd have to specifically ask them.

It's important to know that a majority of cupboard customers all choose essentially the same thing, so that if you are looking for an oddball design, be sure that you're a good match with a custom shop. I have touted the shop we're working with and have no particular reason to think that the cupboards won't be good, but I can definitely say that I anticipated more customization from them than they can deliver. We priced the same bank of plain "shaker" cupboards from one of the better brands at Menards, Thomasville at HD, a semi-custom company I can't recall name, and two custom local companies. This shop met the HD and Menards on roughly comparable product but with much better drawer construction. Then together we started changing the plan somewhat. One of the best things in our new plan is that this shop has decided to create a large box instead of the two smaller boxes in the position each side of the range hood, plus incorporating the spacer area between the box and the wall, giving us an extra 8 inches within the box to the side of the second door. This will allow us to put more large items and irregularly shaped items into the cupboards, esp. the top shelves where less-used stuff is stored because there won't be a divider panel between the two sections on each side. From the floor, it will look like the two sets of cupboards are symmetrical. All four doors will be hinged on the side away from the stove so that there is no door that smacks against the range hood. Yes, I know that the shelves inside will be very wide, but I'm not worried and I doubt that I will do much custom repositioning of them anyway. Another good thing is the willingness to include four (yes, count them! four!) custom pullout cutting/bread boards. The shop knows how to do this in such a way that the cupboard frame will be able to handle the meat pounding and other downward pressure that I know will be applied by moi and DH. The contact man has a lot of on-the-job experience so he says "I've done that" or "that usually doesn't work so good" and it helps me understand. He is very patient. When I walked in with the items which I wanted to embed into the stove-side countertops (knife unit and utensil tubes) he understood and counseled as to how to work up two shallow-depth drawers to compensate. His software doesn't seem to be as fancy as the big company software, so I don't have lots of printouts of elevations from various perspectives, but he does email me a PDF with the latest changes in it, always b&w. But... He is best at the most common styles. I suspect he can rather easily set up a router to make custom designs on slab cupboard fronts. But the custom applied trims on the inside of various doors that I see in catalogs and store displays are not ones that he frequently makes. These things put him out of his element and is discouraging me from making them. He is best at doing the most common things in a custom way. This does not bother DH at all but it has disappointed me. Also, he says that he has trouble making a toekick drawer that really works well, that these don't always work out as being up to the shop's standard of quality, so he's reluctant to give it another try. On the positive side of things, he has a KD client on the other side of town (he keeps her name anonymous) who has set a standard of quality that he constantly quotes. "The KD would say that here [fill in topic] I should [fill in solution]"and I find is almost always good advice, which I am tapping without extra cost. Both of the custom shops that we approached had been enjoying the lush years of the pre-recession building boom. They did a lot of stuff for condo units, stores, etc. Now, out of necessity, they're going after small projects with homeowner contractors in order to give their employees some work. It's a new thing for them, I think, especially the part of the story in which they let the amateur contractor pick up part of the work, esp. the finishing and the planning. They're going to have to learn how to listen and how to give advice gently. To rookies who are just starting on this journey and are talking to such a local shop, be sure to watch out for... 1) whether the bid includes sales tax, transportation, storage, wood finish, deadline date, hauling into the house and dodging damage to floor, and the exact cupboard style you think you have stipulated 2) whether you will do part of the installation, the finish, the countertop and if so, how much they will counsel you or help set you up to succeed 3) what their web of local contacts is...who else do they scratch backs with, such as designers, glass people, finish people, drivers, wood suppliers, etc. 4) whether you or the shop will buy and install the custom inserts such as lazy susans or specialty drawers and whether these are in the bid 5) the quality of the hardware: closure device, rails, knobs if they're provided 6) the drawer box construction 7) the amount of guidance in design and advice you will need 8) how the shop proceeds with the bidding process, including when the money is due and whether it's by check or what 9) how the shop will deal with decreased personnel in this economy--fewer drivers, fewer specialists, fewer people to answer phone or respond to email, more demands on each individual's time, even the complication of an obscure address for the construction site, etc. [These shops don't have dedicated delivery staff who know the entire city because they do this day in and day out] 10) their understanding of your top priorities: deadline? color and finish? trim? kitchen design? or whatever Pay attention to the way they court you and answer your queries, etc. If they are slow or seem eccentric in the beginning part, what does that tell you? Do you have the kind of personality who can be understanding of this? Also, take a look at yourself and how you present your side; in these almost intimate interpersonal situations, you have to think of things from their pt of view--Have I scared him so he won't make suggestions any more? Does he understand that I want/don't want his input? etc. When we were near to shaking hands on the deal, I asked, "What should we do if there is a problem?" We also shook hands on the answer to that. Basically, he said that he would address and fix the problem. Not long after that, he arrived for a remeasure that uncovered a 9-inch measuring error in the computer diagrams. The diagram was too short. He gulped, said, "we'll still honor the quote" and we readjusted the plan. I am not sure that the big box companies would do that. A bonus because we look to be good to work with: He has offered us a chance to be guinea pig on a new product for $100, a new kind of plywood that has birch instead of plastic for the insides of drawers, etc. We said yes, we'd try it. His publicity person has indicated that they might want to use our kitchen for advertising. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Stay tuned.

Cheryl, I'd love to see your specs and drawings -- how do we do e-mail stuff here? I have "allow members to send you stuff" checked in my profile -- will this do it? I went to the North Toronto location. Anna wasn't there, so we were handed to someone else. Opinion on reserve, as we've had no correspondence with her since then. We like the Ravenna; the "pillow" effect is somehow feels contemporary and vintage-y at the same time, esp. if I can get away with no or few uppers and can incorporate some free-standing pieces to complement it. I agree that they have a great selection. And funny you should mention that about tax. It's a pet peeve of DH that prices here (he's from the UK) don't include taxes, and so you always have to ADD on to whatever you get. I'm still working within Excel ... have a couple of new layout options, but waiting to post until I got something from Aya, in case that made a difference. As it is, the design I gave to them at the weekend is different from where I am now, as I "found" a whole new block of space for the pantry in the adjacent breakfast nook. Exciting as it was, heaven only knows how the addition of that space will affect the budget. (I'm laughing, really I am!) Like many here, champagne tastes ... though I really didn't think my budget was that tricky; oh, what an education it's been! And to think you're doing it with three under-three-foot little ones!

I can relate. We GC'd the last time around and I wouldn't do it again. We 'thought' we were DIY'ers since we had previously done a lot of DIY. Didnt think the kitchen would be that difficult since the layout and things like plumbing was not going to change. The comments about GC and subcontractor relationships we found to be true. Also we had several contractors working in empty house at the same time...they didn't get along. More headaches than value. I agree that trying to use existing thermofoil cabs may be a mistake. We currently have yellowing thermofoil cabs and it *is* the reason why we are doing a complete remodel. I briefly considered just doing new counters and the typical facelift, but the cabs although in really good shape, were really the problem. I hated the thought of wasting money on the new materials like flooring, countertops, appliances,etc. to still be unhappy. So I put kitchen remodel on back burner till we saved more money. You can still look at all the wonderful photos here and on houzz! And work on a game plan. This year with a full design set in hand, I started looking for a GC. I found in my area, there are 2 types of GCs. Some do design-to-build, others just install. For most of the year, I guess I was contacting the wrong ppl - design to build ppl. They would come in and begin to re-design my design (we used a KD this time which we did not use the last time). Our design was based on "our" lifestyle. Many, of course, like the KD, wanted the cabinetry piece of it. I was already leaning towards a cab company (dutchwood) and didn't want the GC job to be tied to cabs. It became very frustrating looking for just the right person. Of course the design-to-build firms were much more expensive than an install only (plumbing, electric, etc). Just some things I've learned along the way.