Re the timer, this is where you can see that Gaggenau sort of cobbled together the double oven as an afterthought. :) Now I also know why someone said the controls were weird.

From the manual under "Set time functions for both ovens simultaneously":
Short-term timer and stopwatch are not available when both ovens are in use.
Cooking time and end of cooking time can be set simultaneously for both ovens.

That means, if I understand correctly, that regular go beep timers don't work with both ovens on. What does work are the programs that either count down and turn off the oven, or you set a clock time that you want to take the cooked dish out at, and the oven figures out when to start it. My only guess is that they're protecting you from being confused by which timer is which, so only give you the ones that mind their own selves.

Additionally, if only one oven is on, the timer displays on the left, but if both are on the lower oven's timer is on the left and the upper is on the right (there is an icon for each, so you don't have to memorize which is which).

I have to say, it's very German Engineer of them. :) Or maybe it's in response to a lawsuit. :)

I'm pretty sure the Gaggenau comes with one wire rack, one roasting rack and one baking tray (or at least mine did about five years ago) because that's what fits inside the oven with packing materials, etc. What I can't figure out is that the manual makes it sound like you only get one of each with the double oven, rather than one for each oven. That doesn't make sense. Many people only use one rack, but they'd still need one per oven. I bought two extra baking trays and two extra wire racks for my single oven, and counted them as part of the cost of the oven. I use the baking trays a lot, and often use two wire racks, but almost never use three.

I've only cooked on two levels at a time in my Gaggenau. Great results. There is a quirk, however, where if you put short food in exactly the wrong place, the fan will blow over the food, the hot air reflects back and downward from the front right corner, and overbrowns the short food. This happens rarely, and they might have fixed that in the latest models.

From what I've heard of the Wolf dual fan, it might do an even better job for multi-level. I've certainly not heard any complaints about it.

Gaggenau has made the best electric ovens available for a few decades. From what I've heard about the recent Wolf ovens, especially from people who have used both, is that they're contenders for the title. The problem then is the interior enamel. Wolf has had a terrible problem with it chipping and flaking, which is dangerous. The M series has a potential fix to that problem but hasn't been on the market long enough, or in enough homes, to know if it has actually been fixed. Since that's a very serious problem, Gaggenau remains on the top of the heap.

The other big feature for Gaggenau is the side swing door. Some demand it. Others don't like it or don't care. Recently, Gaggenau's sister company, Bosch, started selling side opening doors as well. As far as I know, that leaves Gaggenau at the high end, Bosch in the middle and Fridigaire at the bottom. There are also a couple of boutique makers, who mostly make ranges, like BlueStar, who have either single or double door side opening ovens. There are too few reports of those in use for me to get a good feel of their cooking/baking quality.

I wouldn't let the timer thing dissuade me from the Gaggenau. You can get a two channel digital timer for something like $10, or you can get decorative single timers. Or use your cell phone, like most people do anyway, nowadays.

The main point is how do you feel about getting the Wolf before the data are in about the enamel? You said you were going to assume it was fixed, but how will you feel if it isn't?

If you're fine with that, do you like the Wolf Star Trek style touch screen, or the Gaggenau knobs? Do you like the Wolf drop down door, or the Gaggenau side swing? Do you prefer a steel face or do you like the glass over steel look? The M might have a little more capacity or take a slightly larger pan, from what I've read--will that be useful to you?

You could always flip a coin...

I guess I could chime in since I have a Wolf Pro M double oven. I have never cooked with a Gaggenau, but have looked at them in a showroom and I know people love them. My last oven was the Wolf E series which had porcelain issues, so I up-graded to the M series. I must say the new convection system is awesome. The two trays of cookies I baked at the same time all came out with the same golden brown. My DH asked if I used a new recipe. This oven is fabulous. The touch screen really isn't "Star Wars" looking and is not difficult to use. It is pretty simple. This isn't rocket science, it is just an oven. The porcelain looks like it will do ok. The E series I had started chipping after only a few uses. I guess I am a little gun shy because I check the porcelain every time I use it. I would suggest that you go back to the dealers and go over the pro and cons of each oven. Good luck

" Gaggenau has made the best electric ovens available for a few decades"

You should have added "in my opinion" or at least a "To Me".

Following my advice, "To me", Electrolux makes a far better oven!

The Icon came with not one, but 3 fully gliding out racks and after 8 years they are still as smoooothhh as they were when brand new and they are really going to come in Handy for the Corned Beef and Cabbage party we are having tomorrow!

No confusing controls on the Elux, Big buttons, labeled Bake, Broil, Roast, Convection Bake Preheat, etc. Just push the appropriate button, enter the temp, Then start lites up green so you push it, done!

I follow recipes that I find, set the oven temp to that which the recipe calls for and also the recipe time, things come out perfect, what more could I ask for?

Both the Icon oven and my Icon speed Oven have been trouble free 8 years now, ditto My Elux Wine fridge, as well as the Elux induction cooktop.

To me part of designing an oven is making it "Price Friendly" Any freaking idiot can deign an overly expensive oven and sell it to folks that equate "Highest Price with Highest Quality", Myself, I've been on Terra Firma to long to "Byte that One"!!!

Bye the way, I suspects that the Electrolux Double ovens each have their own independent timer, but as I have a single oven I can't confirm it.

Gary

LOL! Gary you're calling the kettle black. Okay. I'll revise: Gaggenau has made the most reliable and consistent residential ovens for decades.

If ya say so, Pillog.

Do you recall when I was trying to help a poster find parts for a Gaggenau fridge or maybe a DW? It's been sooo long I forgets which it was.

When I looked up the parts for whatever appliance it was, I was amazed to find that most the parts I looked at said "Fits Gaggenau, Bosch & Thermador".

Well that got me curious, + the fact that somebody else (not you), was going "On & On" about how much better their Gaggenau oven was than anything else. As You know, this always gets my attention, sooo, I looked up the parts for some of the Gaggenau ovens, (not all of them mind you), but several.

Again I found the part fits Bosch, Gaggenau & Thermador ovens. Sometimes the part only fit 2 of the 3, maybe Gaggenau and Bosch, maybe some other combo, but for the most part, at least at the time I did the study, I could not even ascertain a power cord difference between the three. Course that did "Tick off" the poster with the "World's most Amazing Oven".

Now to be honest, the study I did was several years ago, and may not apply to the Gaggenau ovens being built today, but there are "ecomomies of scale" and I'm sure "Mother BSH" knows all about them, Ya thinks?.

I, of course am very glad your oven is takiing good care of you. You certainly deserve it!!!! (I still detect a hint, from some of your postings), that had the Wolf not had the porcelain problems, it still "might have been your favorite"?

Gary

The only thing that's different at Gaggenau is the oven, plus Gaggenau is their proving ground for new tech. BSH has kept them at the very tippy top. You cannot deduce from the parts, however. It's how the whole is constructed that makes the difference. There were some small features of the pre-BSH Gaggenau ovens which I liked better, but the accuracy, etc., are still the best.

And, yes, while I haven't used the current crop of Wolfs, if they can manage not to crack apart, they seem to be worthy of mentioning in the same breath as Gaggenau. I never said it was insurmountable. :)

Thanks so all of you for your input. I'm still quite torn. pillog, I know I shouldn't assume that the enamel issue has been fixed, but I've not read any complaints with the M Series, and it seemed as if most people had chipping/flaking issues with the older models right off the bat. It didn't take months to realize the problem. So, I am hopeful that has been handled. Still, it is in the back of my mind.

I love the side open doors, as it is not only handy but helpful with my kitchen design. I also like the rotisserie. However, I truly love the dual convection of the Wolf as well as the customer service IF there is an issue. Also, the Gaggenau will - I have just learned - take a bit more cabinet modification than I had anticipated. Not the end of the world, but it is a factor.

I wish there were more reviews of the Bosch Benchmark double ovens. One would like to think that some of the wonderful technology of the Gaggenaus has been incorporated. The pricing is excellent for the features, and it has the side swing doors. But - again - no dual convection or rotisserie.

Actually, I want the Gaggenau... if I thought it had the same multi-level capabilities... and if the controls for two ovens aren't screwy. I am going to try to head to DC in the next week. I just have to check them out in person.

That's a great idea! I've only done three levels in my Gaggenau once and I can't remember what it was like. I've done two levels right next to each other or with an empty level between, and either way they come out fine. Not many cookies though. Things like filled filo pastries, choux paste puffs, roasted veg and kale chips. Cookies might be more of a challenge for even browning. I don't remember any problems with them, but have only done multi-level cookies a couple of times.

Good luck on the visit and the decision!