Different companies call it different things, so I've found that an actual inspection is the only way to be sure. Most of the Perlite that is termed "coarse" is quite dusty and small.

A few years ago, I found Sunshine Brand #4 Perlite, and that stuff was the best I've ever seen. Almost zero dust, and the particles were 1/4 - 3/8. Just beautiful to work with.

Josh

The best stuff is usually listed as a number like #2 or #3. If it just says coarse, I would leave it for the construction industry. #2 is the most commonly used size in horticulture. What Josh describes as #4 sounds more like #3 from the size of it. I have used #3, but I feel it can be a little big for small containers. #4 is big and used more by orchid people.

Thanks guys, so what number would describe the average perlite (miracle grow) you would find at Home Depot or Walmart? ( #2? )

I would say #1 but there is sooo much dust in that stuff maybe #0.

HA HA LOL!! I know what you mean, now I get the drift.

Thanks, Rob

Hey guys, I have another idea. If perlite is just used to give structure to the 5:1:1, would crushed red lava rock (scoria) be a suitable substitute?

Rob

Absolutely. Just make sure to get the small stuff because trying to break up the bigger pieces is a PITA. Some people use scoria because it isn't white and floaty. It will make the mix heavier. Scoria is similar to pumice and EB Stone is using pumice instead of perlite in their mixes.

There are some subtle differences between Perlite and Scoria as to how they function in the mix; however, Scoria has large pores and won't hold its moisture as long, so it comes close to Perlite in that regard. I, personally, use Scoria frequently. It offers more structure and durability than Perlite, and approximately the same moisture retention, although it doesn't displace moisture in the same way. Also, as Nil mentioned, it is going to be significantly heavier as any sizeable fraction of the mix. Lastly, it looks a hell of a lot better than Perlite in a mix.

Nil, the Sunshine brand #4 was excellent in the 5-1-1 mix. I guess I assume that most growers aren't putting 5-1-1 in small containers, but rather using it for larger containers (Citrus, maples, conifers) and Summer gardening.

Josh

Crushed scoria is abundantly available in my area (don't know why). The particles on average are 1/4". I was thinking about adjusting the 5:1:1 slightly, using smaller particles in smaller pots.

I was assuming that larger perlite wouldn't migrate to the surface of the soil either.

Thanks guys, Rob

Well... I've been searching perlite for over an hour. Josh, I did find Sunshine #3 & #4 but for some reason all of the large, chunky or coarse stuff is only sold in 4cu ft bags & that's just a lot more than I would use (or even be able to store). I'm going to try scoria.

Josh, you use 5:1:1 a lot. What size('s) do YOU screen your bark to?

Rob

Oh, man, you found the Sunshine?! Awesome! I use up those 4 cu. ft. bags pretty quickly....but I also have the room to store what I don't use. I prefer to buy the larger quantity for the significant price-break - $20 for 4 cu. ft. is what I pay. I just need a closer source.

I do recommend that you experiment with Scoria. I especially like it in my Citrus, Maple, and Conifer mixes...the color-scheme goes well with the bark, turface, and the trunks of the trees themselves. However, as you modify the mix, be aware that the drainage and moisture-retaining properties are going to change as well. Watch closely how the mix behaves to adjust your watering technique. There's variation in Scoria, itself, so one container may dry out faster than another container right beside it.

For screening the bark for 5-1-1, I use 1/2-inch Hardware Cloth, and I lay it over my wheelbarrow and pour the bark through, stopping occasionally to toss the larger bark pieces off the screen.

Josh

Thanks Josh, the Sunshine I found is $67.95- 4cu ft Yikes!

My dad made this for me years ago for recycling tomato soil.

it's made w/ 1/2" wire screen, should work perfectly.

Rob

For a 4.4 c/f bag of perlite, ask a grower if you can buy from him. Or just go to a nurseryman's supply, pay with CASH and you should get it at a better cost. My nurseryman's supply sells it to me for $13.99 per 4.4 c/f.

Yikes, that is expensive for perlite.

The big stuff still floats to the top.

Josh, I like the #3 in big containers like #15 and up, but I can imagine the #4 would maintain structure nicely. My biggest complaint about the large perlite is getting rid of it in the garden. Little #2 sized pieces break down and get stained by the garden soil enough that they don't look terrible mixed in with the rest of the perennial beds. The #3 and up on the other hand stick out like a sore thumb amd I'm not going to sift it out. Pumice looks much better, but I'm thinking of adding in more scoria because of the color.

I buy perlite from Al-Par Peat in Elsie, MI. Last year, I paid $11 for a 4 cu ft bag, but I picked up, along with my year's supply of bark. It also comes in 10 and 60 cu ft bags. You can get 4 cu ft on Amazon for about $13, but the shipping kills you. I don't know if it's free shipping for Amazon Prime members, but it's worth checking into.

Al

Hi Al, how is the perlite you buy labeled, w/ a number (#3) or coarse, super coarse, chunky, large?

Rob

Rob,

Have you checked your local hydroponic stores for the coarse perlite?

Just a thought...

Laura

Howdy Laura, yes, there's a horticulture shop just 5 blocks from my house. I don't think I have the room to store 4-6 cu ft of perlite though.

Do you use the 5:1:1? I cant recall.

You can see what I've been up to on Al's C.S-W.M &R. thread.

See ya later.

Rob

Rob, is that your deck? You know, I think you'll be wishing you'd purchased the big bag of Perlite a few months down the road. Once you start filling a few larger containers, you'll realize how much mix you need.

Laura is the gritty mix Plumeria Queen, if I may say so, although I think she does use 5-1-1 for a few applications. She and I both grow Squills, which prefer 5-1-1.

Josh

Yes, I usually have a relatively large container garden on my balcony. This year however the decking is being replaced so I will probably only have a few flowers & herbs.

At this point I'm getting ahead of myself trying to make both mixes. I need to concentrate on the Gritty Mix because I have numerous bonsai to re-pot come spring. Although one way or the other I'm going to need a large amount of perlite or scoria (which ever I end up using).I guess I have to figure out which will be more economically feasible. (probably perlite.)

They both come in sealed plastic bags, so I could store it outside if I had to.

As for the 5:1:1 I first want to put some of my houseplants into it.

Thanks Josh, later.

Rob

Hi Rob!!

I did see your post over on Al's container thread!!! Most impressed in your efforts of getting this together. You have accomplished a lot from what I can see. Great job!! You really have made a straight path to getting to where you want to be for the best overall health of your trees and plants. Nice...

Hi Josh!! Always nice to see you!! Lol.. Plumeria queen? Lol. Maybe Plumeria Nut! Lol... ;-)

I also use the 5-1-1 for other plants and trees. It just depends on the needs of the trees. My tomato containers will be in the 5-1-1 and I do plant some of my flower containers in this mix as well. Both are great mixes and I use both.

Great to see it all come together for you Rob!! Keep up the great work and please post pictures!!

I'm also in the process of ripping out my old deck and replacing it after 30 years.. What a job!! Good luck with yours!!

Take care,

Laura

I have to replace my front deck, too! Maybe this Summer...if not, next Summer.

It's going to be tough because I'll have to move my Giant Chainfern in its half wine-barrel...and it is heavy!!!

Josh

Laura, do you mean you saw my "into post cs-wm&r 1-27-15" post?

That would be the one!! Great post and great pics, Rob!! I had already seen that post and commented on it too!! Pretty work!!!

Seems we all will have new decks this summer !! Hope you get it finished this summer, Josh!!

Take care,

Laura

Hi guys, went to one of my favorite nurseries yesterday; ended up getting 3.5 cu ft "chunky Perlite" & 16 quarts scoria.

Had a wonderful day; grabbed some pics. - Enjoy.

Rob

P.S. Also stopped by the feed store.

Last year I bough a 2 cu-ft bag from HD, labeled coarse but it really was not.
They have the same (I think ) selling for $16.95. / 2cu-ft
I think as long as big portion of it is relatively chunky , then I would consider the small particles as part of the soil, like peat and real fine bark. Just have to add a little more of it than 1/8. say make it 5-1-1.5 by volume.

Seysonn

Glad you found some coarse Perlite, Rob!

Looks like a great nursery too! Awesome pictures!!

Thanks for the greenery!! Ready for spring..

Have a great weekend!

Laura