Is your oven electric or gas?

dcarch

electric

Did you switch the pan positions halfway through the baking time?

I find oven performance is different when there is more than one sheet in the oven. It also matters how large the sheets are relative to the shelf sizes. Heat rising from the bottom can be blocked by large sheets in a small oven.

It could have been the batch of dough.

In such circumstances I've found I get better results turning on the "convection" fan. Use it if you have one, it seems to even out oven temperatures with multiple sheets.

PS - most Pillsbury products have trans-fat ingredients, if that matters to you.

That's what I guessed.

Electric oven heating elements can either be on 100% or off 100%, there is no in between, regardless of the temperature setting.

When the heating element is first on, it is on 100%, it sends out infrared rays to heat up the oven. When the temperature is reached, the heating element is off 100%. The infrared heats the surface of food very quickly, just like a toaster, and the infrared ray cannot heat up food that is in the shadow of the rays.

So if you have a lot of food in an electric oven, you will need to get use to it's characteristics and how the heating elements are installed.

Best is to have convection feature for an electric oven.

dcarch

Very interesting! I do not have convection. I will never have a gas range as, don't laugh, I am afraid of a gas range. Have a gas furnace etc. but while I grew up with a gas range the whole idea flips me and DH out (he grew up with electric). Enough about my neurosis.

I would like to get a new range and was mostly interested in an induction cooktop. I never understood the whole convection thing and thought it would be really hard for me to convert recipes. Now I am wondering if I need to check into convection more.

Carol, no I didn't switch the pans, should have thought of that.

Snidely, the pans were big and I was concerned about blocking the heat.

dcarch, your explanation is one I have never heard but makes sense.

I have had similar experiences to this one with my oven but this one was the worst.

If you practice with your oven, you'll learn what works for you.

I suspect it might have been the dough handling. Do you usually make and freeze, then bake? If you do, then it's not the problem. If not, it probably is. Those compressed doughs really should be baked right away (by directions). The packaging restricts them, and they start to rise immediately when opened. There's a lot of potential wonkiness there if you don't get right on it.

If you think that is the problem, a better way to do it would be to make the filling ahead and freeze it, but make up the bundles day of, or bake them most of the way on prep day--so they're fully cooked but not really browned--then freeze them and rewarm/brown on day of. Do some experiments so you'll be sure of the warming time, but it's usually the same as the initial cook was supposed to be.

They tasted good, though, right? When it comes down to it, after no one gets sick, that's the number one thing you want when you make food. :)

"Electric oven heating elements can either be on 100% or off 100%"

My gas oven works exactly the same way. The thermostat turns the burner under the over on, then off when the set temperature is reached. It cycles off and on.

My electric oven works the same way, as described (I have both).

The performance difference I've found between the two is that gas oven heat is more moist (the combustion of gas produces water vapor), the electric is more dry. Sometimes you want one, sometimes the other, sometimes it doesn't matter.

I agree with the suggestion to experiment, every one is different. But for sure I have experienced uneven temperature distribution in an oven that a fan will compensate for (a bit).

Someone who seemed to know his stuff posted on the Appliances Forum this year that contrary to the past norms, such as Snidely describes having, the new electric ovens are actually moister than the new gas ovens...though I forget why. :) I do know my new (5y.o.) oven retains a heck of a lot of steam in a way that none of my previous ovens, gas or electric, have, so I'm guessing there's something to it... Another reason to experiment what what you've got. :)

""Electric oven heating elements can either be on 100% or off 100%"
My gas oven works exactly the same way. The thermostat turns the burner under the over on, then off when the set temperature is reached. It cycles off and on.
My electric oven works the same way, as described (I have both)."

That statement while correct in some aspects of operation, but the resulting effects on food are very different. The physics in a gas oven and electric ovens are not the same.

The electric heating element is located inside the oven chamber, giving off immediate infrared radiation on the food when it is on.

With a gas oven, the flame, which is outside of the oven chamber, by thermal conduction, heat up the air, and the hot air heats up the bottom metal, the bottom metal then heats up the oven chamber air, and the hot air finally heats up the food. The flame may be on and off, the hot metal will maintain relative high temperature due to metal's thermal mass and specific heat content.

Hot air can cook food more or less all around by conduction. Infrared ray, which is an electromagnetic wave just like ordinary light, cannot bent around and cannot cook food in its shadows.

dcarch

"Someone who seemed to know his stuff posted on the Appliances Forum this year that contrary to the past norms, such as Snidely describes having, the new electric ovens are actually moister than the new gas ovens...though I forget why. :) I do know my new (5y.o.) oven retains a heck of a lot of steam in a way that none of my previous ovens, gas or electric, have, so I'm guessing there's something to it... Another reason to experiment what what you've got. :)"

Gas oven is highly ventilated.

Electric oven needs no ventilation.

dcarch

In my electric oven, if I put a piece of meat on a rack with a sheet under it, it's in the shadow cast by the sheet. By your explanation, it won't cook?

Sorry, I think you've thrown a lot of baloney in your comments. While the electric element gives off infrared radiation, the air gets heated all the same as in the gas oven and the hot air does the work. The right word to use to describe the heating is convection, not conduction.

Yes, the gas oven is vented, at the top of the inside of the oven chamber. It's perfect for roasting and broiling meat, and especially for cooking stuff that's smoky or stinky, because the smells are captured by the exhaust fan over the range and sent outside for my neighbors to enjoy.

I can see that an electric oven, being closed, would retain the moisture in the food being cooked. Is that more or less than in a gas oven where the air is constantly cycling through? I'm not an engineer, I'll say I don't know, you should say the same.

New electric ovens generally have the element concealed under the floor of the oven. The vent or not sounds like a good possibility for the potential inversion.

There are people who actually used hygrometers to test the moisture in ovens. I know this was done for older style ovens. I don't know if the newer ones have been reliably tested that way. It's just an interesting potential to consider when repeating the old wisdom about gas ovens being moister because of the by products of combustion, that it may no longer be true.

From the description, I surmise that Snidely's ovens are of the more traditional variety, and thereby follow the old rules. :)

The big question is what is it like inside Debrak's oven?

There's no reason to be timid with convection, if you get a new range. Any time you get a new oven, any kind of oven, you're going to have to adjust your recipes. Any time you change elevation, even if you take your old oven with you, you have to adjust your recipes. If it comes to getting a new range, you might as well get the convection and learn how to use it. There are some rules of thumb to follow, and while using them, just keep an eye on things and set the timer a little short, until you figure it out.

In rereading your first post, I think now that it might have been the big pans and not switching them around. I thought, before, that you meant that each one was partly overdone and partly under. If the middle of the lower tray was underdone and the side ones on both were over, then it's the too full, no switching. (Or the bottom ones were over on the bottom and under on the top, and the top ones were vice versa.)

I've had this oven for almost 10 years. Only recently (the last 2-3 years) have I started entertaining and cooking more.

The recipes for these bundes say they can be frozen as that is one of the benefits of making them. In the past I have baked some immediately and frozen the rest with no difference in quality.

The inside of my oven? The bottom heating element is hidden, the broiler element on the top is not. The oven does vent.

Sounds like too many bundles on big pans, two pans that were not rotated, with no convention, was just asking for trouble.

Thank you all for your insight on this.

Posted by Snidely:

â In my electric oven, if I put a piece of meat on a rack with a sheet under it, it's in the shadow cast by the sheet. By your explanation, it won't cook?âÂÂ

I did not say it wouldn't cook. I said âÂÂâÂÂSo if you have a lot of food in an electric oven, you will need to get used to it's characteristics and how the heating elements are installed.âÂÂâÂÂ

âÂÂSorry, I think you've thrown a lot of baloney in your comments. âÂÂ

Agree. I am well known here for making lots of baloney.

âÂÂWhile the electric element gives off infrared radiation, the air gets heated all the same as in the gas oven and the hot air does the work. The right word to use to describe the heating is convection, not conduction.âÂÂ

No, Infrared radiation is not capable of heating air. And convection is conduction.

âÂÂYes, the gas oven is vented, at the top of the inside of the oven chamber. It's perfect for roasting and broiling meat, and especially for cooking stuff that's smoky or stinky, because the smells are captured by the exhaust fan over the range and sent outside for my neighbors to enjoy.âÂÂ

Gas oven venting is because combustion needs oxygen, which electric heat does not require, not because of stinky smoke. Roasting meat is not the same as broiling. Roasting is cooking by mostly conduction, and broiling is mostly by infrared radiation.

âÂÂI'm not an engineer, I'll say I don't know, you should say the same.âÂÂ

One thing I can say is that you are apparently a better person than I am. Modesty is not my best quality.

dcarch

Apologies if someone already pointed this out, but here's a page from a new oven manual very much like mine:

carolb_w_fl , Good diagrams. Thanks for sharing.

The diagram for multiple racks is what I was talking about. It is a good idea to arrange food so that nothing is in the shadow of IR radiation from the heating elements.

There is an important reason for proper venting for both electric and gas ovens. All electronic controls are very temperature sensitive. They need to be vented so that heat buildup will not cause damage to the components.

dcarch

That diagram makes sense but most of my cookware is large. I was using an 11x 17 pan and another almost as large. I think the racks were too close together also.

I was just about to ask how far apart your racks were. That would affect the results.