I'm not sure. I'd have to see all the elevations...but without the other parts of the room to inform my thoughts, the oven assembly seems imposing and kind of Easter Island headlike.

But that's probably because I lack the context of the rest of it. More pictures. :)

This shows a cut down of one of the two narrow cabinets. The right side cab is a vestigial 3-4" pullout - not way useful, but could fit lids or tools or trays or that kind of flat stuff.

I don't find the symmetry to be a compelling argument here. With the shelves, etc. its not even noticeable. So the other change here is to eliminate the shelves over the oven in favor of a larger top cabinet. I think its a lot cleaner look.

I think... I would vote to cut both.

{{gwi:2106034}}

Wow...All sorts of good ideas. What to address first and what to say...

First, I think the oven does need a cabinet on top to look finished.

You have 38" plus the 24" into the corner for mixing and pouring...I have 47" for the same purpose, less the space my blender uses, so it seems you have plenty, as long as you're doing your rolling and kneading elsewhere.

However, I love the idea of putting the step ladder there, handy so you can grab it quickly. Do you have a place for a broom? I have the step ladder on one end of my fridge and freezer set and the broom on the other. It works well, could still be symmetrical, and give you more baking space. If you cut each side to 7", will you have things to store in the side by the door if you don't like the broom idea?

Functionally, I like the idea of giving up the symmetry and having the ladder on the right and whatever depth you need on the left. Do you have symmetry elsewhere in the kitchen? Is it traditional or contemporary styling? If the latter, I think you could get away with the asymmetry, but if traditional, I think you might need to keep the sides equal.

LOL!! Fori, I don't think it will look that way in actuality. It's a weird POV in the drawing, but I think I will always be looking for the eyes now. :)

Bmorepanic, many thanks for the drawing. That's really useful! Your narrow piece gives the balance I was looking for when I said I wanted something on that side of the oven, even though it's not symmetric.

Also, thanks for showing me what all the way up cupboards will look like--now I'm sure I don't want them! :) There's an awful lot of floor to ceiling cabinetry and I need some variation on each wall to not feel hemmed in. That's shelves on the oven wall, hood and garden window on the stove wall, just the total weirdness of the fridge wall, and I have to figure out something to do with the pantries or they're going to be way depressing.

Rhome, do you think a shorter cabinet over the ovens would work? Like 5-7 inches for oven racks? Thanks for the baking area comparison. That makes me feel better! I know now I'm just talking about looks rather than function.

The ladder is a six-footer and 6" wide. My brother gave it to me as a birthday present and I'm going to need it handy to get into those high cabinets. The brooms, vac, etc., go in the understairs. It's very big, but not tall enough for the ladder.

The style is contemporary eclectic with some old world accents, and a quilterly look overall (accident, but revelatory). You're right that it doesn't need actual symmetry. I should have said balance.

Gizmonike, thank you so much for the pix and the Gagg advice!! Both about the heat and the steam. Yours is probably my favorite kitchen, but I haven't seen these pix before. They're VERY helpful!

Since Fori asked (and made me laugh), here are other perspectives. These are still very preliminary and some things are very wrong. The cabinet maker wanted to put that 18" trash pullout by the sink, but not only don't I like the trash there, it pushes the sink to be tush to tush with the island and too close to the cooktop, plus it pushes the window over so that the light doesn't come into the butler's pantry.

A year ago, Rhome (I think it was) told me not to do the dark hole to the right of the sink (which will be more to the right than shown), but I tried and I tried, and this is the only layout that really worked. Seeing the elevation the indent to the upper cabinets looks pretty awful. Weird. Too interesting. I'm thinking either the uppers need to come out or the cupboard over the Advantium needs to be recessed to line up with them. I think the latter would be better. Still weird. :) Interesting. :)

Some of the divisions are wrong, but that's the most glaring. Looking face on to the pantry, the butler's pantry is on the left and there's a pocket door to the laundry.

...

The idea of shortening the upper over the oven reminded me of Maconiteasy's fridge cabinet...See the link that I found via the FKB just in case it's any help.

Do you need those shelves so way up high?

If the plan is accurate, at least you have 18" of counter from the sink run to the microwave cabinet...It's better than the 12" I think you started with?

Here is a link that might be useful:

Oooh! Great fridge cabinet!!! Thanks for the link. I like the proportions.

I probably don't need the shelves, but I want to use them for the wood bowls my father made and other large decorative objects that have to go somewhere. I see the design parallel to Maconiteasy's clerestories, which I love!

Re the dark hole, on the cabinet maker's plan there's actually a whole 21" of counter between the turn and the microwave. That corner is currently used only for things needing to go into the sink, clutter and sometimes pre-zap sandwich fixings.

I think its a bit "tight" between the island and the perimeter. It can be ok on one or two sides, but its under 4 feet all around.

I don't understand the position, function of the refrigerator drawers.

It's 42" at the fridge and oven, which is fine. I don't want people passing. There's over 48" on the stove and pantry sides. Yeah, there could be more floor space, but it is what it is.

The refrigerator drawers are for veg for prep and for things I might want at the stove like butter and milk (which I only use for cooking), opened wine and sauces. The only reason I'm having an island at all is so I can have the fridge drawers and the prep sink. I don't need either, but I'm not doing this big a remodel without one big "because I want it".

Next qustion:
Should I do the main pantry to contrast?

I'm talking about the center bank in the bottom picture. I'm having bamboo everything all over, panelled everything, and I'm thinking it's getting to be too much. I don't want stainless or anything on the appliances (well, gotta have it on the ovens), but perhaps the pantry could be a contrast, like a painted armoire or something. What do you all think?

Contrasting pantry? Sure, have some fun! You have a LOT of cabinetry and I would think all the bamboo could use something to break it up. Not sure I'd go to something like an antique armoire style...But I think you could change it up a little with color and a little style variation.

Since I'm obsessing about my own trash placement, I have to ask, where will you put your trash/recycling? Under the sink or in the island?

I understand about the fridge with prep items. If this is the reason for the island, I would lose the seating. It sounds like it is going to be a working kitchen.

I agree with mixing the tones for the pantry. Perhaps painted but not much different in style.

Rhome410, a lot of cabinetry? Yeah! I need the storage but that elevation of the pantry is kind of scary :) I wouldn't go all out antique style on it. I was thinking more kind of old world to go with the barrel hood and tile. I'm aiming for a mix of modern and traditional, like a less dramatic version of the courtyard at the Louvre. :) The other good thing about it is it'll probably save money, unlike my other bright notions. :)

Kitchenredo2, The drawers to the right of the sink with the X were spec'ed by the cabinet maker as a trash pullout, but I don't want to push the window over, and I'd really like to center the sink in front of the window. BUT, I don't really like the trash in the cabinet. If I leave it, it could be all recycling, I suppose, since we separate the deposit ones from the rest.

I'm very tempted to keep my old rubbermaid pail I've had for almost 30 years. Other than a little scuffing on the bottom, it's like new. And I really don't need anything bigger. It can roam around as needed, and hide under the sink when I want it hidden.

On the other hand, if anyone here knows of a covered trash pullout in a narrow cabinet, that pops open, I'd be interested to think on it...

Palimpsest (great moniker, btw--are you scraping your old kitchen?), I forgot to explain the seating on this thread. :) It's a fold down, table height ...um... table. That makes a convenient place to sit and shuck peas, grab breakfast, and a place my mother can sit comfortably and help without feeling like she's in the way. Because it folds down (it's not really tile, that's the contractor's program), when it's in the way it goes away.

You're right about a working kitchen. I do not like to entertain in the kitchen, and I need storage. (Oh, did I say that already?) I've been making the contractor nuts by insisting that there be a door between the kitchen and dining room. I don't want my dinner guests looking into the kitchen! So he found the kind of two way hinges that they have in restaurants. A pocket door won't work in the bearing wall, and a swing is easier to keep closed, anyway.

Thanks all for your help. I'm getting a much better idea of what I should be telling the cabinet maker on Tuesday.

I've been thinking more about changing the color of the pantry. It seems my best options are either to use a toasted bamboo to offset the natural (that's brown to offset the yellow), or to go painted with a color that picks up the other finishes. I've done a dirty job of coloring in the sketch. What do you think?

I like the different colors. What about glass for fronts on the pantry? Even Gumby colored glass. I wouldn't want glass I could see through, but opaque glass is nice.

I'm glad there's someone else who thinks kitchens need to have closing doors! It doesn't actually work to keep people out, though.

Like the colors and like Fori's opaque glass idea, too.

ROTFLOL!! Oh, Fori, you can always made me laugh!! That is Gumby color, isn't it? (Well, wire-poking-through, been in the sun too long Gumby...)

I like the glass idea too (well, not Gumby colored, but opaque pebbled or something). Something that can't be done with the bamboo, but could be done with painted wood.

Thanks, both, for the color votes. My mother said "escutcheons". But I just don't want to be standing at the island prep area and see, at best, the bamboo forest, and at worst a cage.

I also thought about making open boxes at the top of the pantry at the level that the high cabinets are elsewhere, but I think it's more useful to have the tall cabinets. I don't currently have a samovar, but that would be the logical place to store it if I did, for instance.

Final thought was to do the butler's pantry area painted (white or cream, also with glass up), but I think it's too open to the kitchen and would look weird, whereas doing it to the pantry makes a "feature".

I wasn't thinking wood framed exactly. Your excellent coloring job just made me think glass (yes, Gumby is a good color for frosted glass). Or acrylic. Like the Scavolini type slab-o-glass doors. Depends on your other styles of course. But I don't see mullions and stuff there. Maybe shoji style, but not traditional.

Because you've drawn your doors as boxes, I'm picturing slab styling. I might be way off. waaaaaay off.

O, are we still doing Miele cooktops? My cabinet guy wants me to decide!

Hm... Gumby colord glass slabs!! Cool! I'll have to ask the cabinet maker. They might be too heavy, but they'd be very cool. Actually, I know where I can get them fabricated out of recycled glass, if they'll work. Don't know if they have Gumby, but they have clear-glass-green, cracked ice, and other good ones. Or Gumby safety glass? Might be a better idea ;)

Yes, the bamboo doors are euro-slabs on frameless boxes. The places where frames seem to show in the drawings are the limitations of the contractor's computer program. The doors will even cover the bottom molding that covers the UC lights. I wasn't thinking mullions or anything. Just a wood frame, slab thick, painted, around the glass, which could then be thinner and lighter.

These are great ideas to take to tomorrow's meeting!

Yes to the Miele! I think. My cabinet guy wants me to decide, too! My last great idea was to ask the Gaggenau repair guy if he can rewire the 24" euro top to U.S. I'm waiting for a callback (didn't leave the question on the machine, it's too weird, but just called today). After all the research and cautions I've gotten I figure it's that or the Miele. The Miele is really excellent. It's just too big. And Miele don't make a 24" at all. Tiling it over may be the only answer... ;) Your DH didn't think the Gaggenau was cool enough?

I don't think your Gagg guy will touch that one! How about a nice custom cutting board instead of tiling over? That way if you have a tie-dye party you'd still have all the burners available.

We haven't seen the Gagg cooktop in person yet--we have to go to one of those snobby "invitation only" showrooms. We are the obnoxious type of people who drag our poor children appliance shopping so our progress is slow and painful.

How cool could it be, really? It's a Bosch plus timers, and a knob. Which we'd lose. I guess it has a good "boost". Wish I knew what I had now so I could just get "better".

So get the Miele! Except for the seven extra inches it has a lot to recommend it. And you're right about the cutting board. Probably less messy than the tile.

But seriously? ALL dyeing happens out back behind the studio. I have a "garden" cart with sink for all the dyes and paints. And if I'm going to heat batch them, it'll be in the studio (which is getting the old MW and bar fridge to add to the sorry old hot plate). Okay. Freakout over. No dye in the kitchen. No dye powder without respirator. No opened dyes in the studio where they can get onto other fabrics. Simple rules. Life is good.

But, you know, now that you mention it, that Gagg knob could easily get lost. Especially with kids hiding it from each other (and you). Hm... Another check in the pro-Miele column!

Sounds like you're way past the RIT dye level.

I think I'll do a boil test on my cooktop and then bring my pan and water to a showroom. After showing my pan, I will probably be thrown out, but if not, I'll test!

But this is about your kitchen. Heard from the gaggguy yet? AT 7:45 AM?

Hey, Fori, the repair guy called! At a reasonable time, and I was already gone to meet the cabinet maker and contractor. We had a very productive session. I'll call Mr. G. tomorrow. Meantime, I'm going to post about the cool factor in Appliances.

• I got 2" of countertop on both sides because the cabinet maker was making pretty frames around the ovens and Advantium. Instead there will be 1" nice frames.

• The ladder is too tall for the right of the ovens, and I wan't still more counter, so that's going to be a tall pullout like Gizmonike's, only with trays for spices, etc.

• The little cupboard over the ovens is only going to be about 8" tall anyway, so will have a flip up door rather than swing doors. Should be good for oven pieces.

• He can do rails and stiles with the bamboo, so the stemware cupboards in the butler's pantry will have inset glass (probably pebble) in the uppers and glass shelves. I think this will cure the bamboo forest problem, because it'll draw the eye away from the slabs. The only view I was ready to go all out Gumby for was standing in the prep area of the island. That, and my mother's jazzy hardware. :)

• No gumby ;( Glass would be too heavy and unsafe.

• There will be a message center with an 8" deep flip down writing surface in the center of the pegboard cabinet (on the right from the pantry.

We also hashed out a lot of drawer depths, etc., and things look good. I came away feeling very good about the whole thing. I even might have found a top for the island.

BTW, sorry for going off on the dye. I'm a fiber artist with respiratory issues so I took that literally. :D RIT's a different story. ;)