thanks, that's what I thought as well.

What do you mean by " the dimension of the human using the space"?

Unfortunately an architect isn't in our price range in our area (even with what I consider a generous building budget). We're working with architectural technologists and a designer.

thanks, that's what I thought as well.

What do you mean by " the dimension of the human using the space"?

Unfortunately an architect isn't in our price range in our area (even with what I consider a generous building budget). We're working with architectural technologists and a designer.

bpbath - I do see what you mean re the bed being in full view of the island. I guess we'd always have to leave the door closed? that's not ideal.

I would just get rid of the eating nook altogether. Take out that bump out. Your dining table is right there. You don't need an eating nook.

There are 4,600sf homes near me that don't have as much dining seating as you have. And only that tiny 2-person sofa to watch TV.

I'd want a huge family room, with a young family like yours.

This just isn't really a smart space at all.

"...an architect isn't in our price range in our area..." I'm curious how much more an architect would cost you? I've learned from these forums that it costs SO much more money to build a new house rather than purchase an existing house.... so why do it, unless you're really getting what you want? Why use your limited amount of money to build something like this? I don't want you to have regret.

Throw the dining chair budget in on the savings for an architect.

JuneKnow - the stairs do seem so odd to me like they don't really belong. I'm in Quebec so what's up to code may vary greatly from other places in Canada or the US. Still, I agree with you that those stairs need to be re-thought.

I just don't really know where to go from here. I'm worried I can't trust this team to design something that works for our family. We'll schedule a call with the owner of the firm to see if she reviewed this before it went out because it just seems overall bad, even to me as a layperson.

Why 2 sets of stairs? The house isn't so big to need 2 sets? Twice as much cost and it eats up floor space too.

Is the front door in that narrow landing? How do you fit a family of 5 to get in/out of the house? With strollers, etc? I would redesign so I didn't have any extra levels other than main floor and upstairs. Houses that have extra stairs/steps to get around the house usually sell for less and take longer to sell.

Is the room in the upper right a porch or another interior room? Why are their two sets of stairs near each other? Agree there is way too much seating. You don't need that many seats at the island or the nook.

chispa - it's hard to say from the drawing but the entrance to our home is located half way between the walk out basement level, and the main floor level. We're building in a forest, onto a hill, so stairs will be a part of our reality. We never bring strollers inside, we leave them in the garage or in the trunk of the car.

lmckuin - the room in the upper right is a screened in porch. they're very common in our area, because we're on a wooden lot with lots of bugs in the summer.

Your description of the location makes it even more evident that you need an architect. I'm still trying to figure out the view into the bedroom from the island since the stair well, a couple of walls and a door are between the two.

decoenthusiaste - I'm not entirely sure what to do at this point. We've already invested time and money into this team, but it seems we may need to cut our losses. it's hard for me to be the judge of this, since I know nothing about architecture and design.

I saw just now that there is indeed a wall between the kitchen and the bedroom.

I tried posting a screen shot of the basement plan, which seems like it doesn't work either. How are we supposed to access the rest of the basement from these stairs? isn't the garage in the way? My initial post didn't work but perhaps this time it will.

Ah, deco, you are right about the view to the master, it’s not what I thought. I didn’t see the wall.

I‘d almost be inclined to the put the dining table where the living room is, and use the large open area by the kitchen for the living room.

bpbath - I thought about that as well. It could make sense.

My only concern is that I don't particularly like having my living space right next to the kitchen. I personally prefer a more separated layout, while my husband likes it opened, so we're trying to strike a balance. I don't enjoy sitting and relaxing with my (often messy) kitchen right behind me. We do pick up and clean our kitchen of course, but it's never perfect enough for me to feel relaxed if I'm right there if that makes sense.

Wow, yeah, if you aren't in love with an open plan, that is, seeing your kitchen mess from every part of this floor, then you really are at a point where this entire plan needs to be scrapped! I wonder if you could find some old split level plans for inspiration? The old ones had joint dining and living spaces but with the kitchen fairly closed off.

You’re building a split level? Raised ranch type? As new construction? A tri level can be a great choice for nestling an open concept build into a slope. This isn’t that. Too many stairs and eating areas and not enough family space. The space priorities aren’t the people using the home. It will appear “interesting”. But that’s not a substitute for comfortable or usable.

Find another technologist. There are good ones and bad ones in Canada and from what I can see this is not a good one. In fact this one points to the technologist graduating at the bottom of the class. It doesn't take into account anyone who will live there.

There's enough seating for dining for 16 people but not even enough seating for 6 people to talk to one another in the living area. POOR.

As June said, staircase is not even to code. and the rest is just plain bad. Look at the size of your living area compared to your bedroom/bath or even your kitchen/dining.

Which direction is north?

If you think there are too many places to sit, think about all those places to stand and places to climb stairs?

The living space is for a couple. Yet the stairs and eating areas are for a platoon.

North is approximately the top right corner of the plan. that's another thing - there are absolutely no windows on the left of the plan which is where we'd get the most natural light. I repeatedly said that was one of my top priorities. The more I look at this plan the less I trust that they can actually fix it.

We're building a tri level house - a walk out "basement", a main floor with kitchen/living and our master in the back connecting at the top of the slope where we'll have our backyard, and a second floor for the kids bedrooms/office/laundry room.

The owner of the company (a more senior technologist who seems experienced and teaches) gave us a good impression when we signed our contract but the technologist she assigned our file to clearly doesn't seem that good. I'm torn between trying to work it out and get the owner to work on this, or just get an architect as a "consultant" to help us provide our comments to the technologist and basically give our plans more life. Of course that's extra money but it sounds like it's money well spend. I just don't know if we owe the owner the opportunity to try and fix this for us.

Looks weird to me. Like a hotel with conference rooms.

South gives you the most light

I would not pay a dime more to this company. I’d argue with the owner that you did not receive a floor plan worthy of what you paid. If your priorities weren’t even taken into account, I‘d kindly (but firmly) ask they re-do.

Just the lack of correct orientation to the sun and site is enough to eliminate this from a possibility. If the top right is North, the lower left is South. Could there be any worse use of great Southern light than a utility area, a redundant staircase, and western glare on the TV?

I would take one more chance, and ask that the senior partner take over. If he cannot, or his concept design is similarly dysfunctional, I’d sever the relationship. It need not go further than a single quick sit down with him, and a hand drawn concept sketch. If he has the talent, that will show it. If he can’t get the concept right, then the details will not follow. Good luck!

Although it's easier said than done, try to insulate your decisions from the influence of money that you've already spent. The "sunk cost fallacy" is a real phenomenon. It can push us forward on a path that doesn't serve us well because we've already spent time or money on something. Whatever choices you make from this point forward will better if regret or guilt about your sunk costs aren't what's driving them.

We are definitely mindful of the sunk cost fallacy, especially this early on in the project. now is the time to walk away.

We'll give the owner a chance to fix this and if not, will look elsewhere.

We also had an interior design package as well as a landscaping design package with this company (with different people working on those parts). Now I'm even second guessing that.

Gen VBP, at least you have the foresight to notice the issues of this layout before you built. I would be a very unhappy client. I would read whatever agreements or contracts fully before having a discussion with the firm, so you can negotiate better. I would ask them 1st what they can offer to fix it 1st. I would insist on not using whoever design that so far. It's that bad, imo from what others have posted above. I would even consider, just cutting your losses & finding someone else. I would go over what was agreed upon & if it's highly apparent they did not deliver, I would ask for a refund. Maybe next time not a firm, but hire individuals, so you know & will chose who will be desiging your valuable investment rather than a firm choosing randomly who gets the next project. I highly suggest choosing each professional based on their focused profession to get better results. For example, a kitchen designer for the kitchen. Architects for structural & general floorplans. Interior designer for detailing floorplans & editing. Finishing contractors for detailed wood trims, etc for example. Again, on a positive note, at least you did not go too far down the process which would of been worse. Please post what happen. I'm curious to see how this situation will be fixed & it may help someone else in the future. I wish you some good news & a great design in your near future.

I think your instincts are telling you the right thing. Talk to the owner, but if there are no improvements quickly I suggest cutting your losses. We spent a year with an archItect that things just got worse and worse. It started out decent, but got Out of hand quickly and every time we mentioned something and it just got worse and worse. We spent way too much money and time on that experience and do not even have anything out of it that we want To even use. Ours was a licensed architect and had been so since the 1970s and I think he may just have gotten too old to listen to our needs as only a few things were addressed at a time and the list kept growing. So do give them a second chance with clear priorities from you such as the light from the south and the rooms you want/need. Such as we want dining space to fit x people daily, but be able to seat x occasionally etc.

Maybe they threw in that many tables for you see 3 table options. Usually architects give you the bones to work with. They know it will be re-worked by you, a designer or KD. I ALWAYS re-design a kitchen space. Architects are not kitchen designers.

Interior design budget? I would spend that on an architect...

This is not an average home, built on three levels into the side of a hill. I think you need to interview a few local architects to see who you mesh with.

thanks for the thoughtful comments. I do feel like the "fair" thing to do is give the owner a chance to fix this but as many of you have mentioned, I won't hesitate to walk away if it doesn't get better quickly.

So sorry to hear about the bad experience with the architect - what a nightmare. We'll try to avoid that at all costs.

Mrs.S - architects around here charge 10 percent of the total build approx (with a budget of $650k to build that's a good $65k which eats at our budget fast). the interior designer had a package for $2.5k I believe.

We may be able to get an architect to consult on our project for a retainer of $5k and who would charge us by the hour. This may be the best use of our $. Keeping the technologist (the owner...) to do our technical drawings but with the ideas of the architect. This guy seems like a good fit but we still need to discuss further.

Other architects haven't even returned my calls. lots of $1M plus projects going around in my area so mine probably seems unappealing.

This is sort of not really in line with the question, but maybe it is with the general gist of the post --> what is your current age, and have your considered the ramifications of a three-level house as you age?

I ask this from the POV of having lived in a tri-level for many years. It was not a home conducive to aging in place, and I did not want to grow old there. That finally was drilled home in my mind when my dad, who was mid-80s at the time, came over for a get-together and my brother had to help him down the stairs to use the restroom, he couldn't manage even those 6 steps by himself. What finally got through to DH's thick skull is when he busted up his knee and had to navigate those stairs every single day with a brace on...not very easy, even for a middle-aged athletic man. I'm telling you straight up -- split-levels suck. Unless there is a bathroom on every level (mine did not have one on the main floor) and space that can be converted to living/bedroom quarters if necessary. And then what do you do about kitchen/food access space if you're confined to one level, even if the bathroom and bedroom on the other two non-main levels.

If you're young and see yourself living here a long time, just do your homework and make sure it will be built taking the needs of an older or disabled/injured person into account -- because you will get old some day. If you're middle-aged or older, skip the three-level altogether, find another site if possible or have at least have it designed into the hill site as a ranch style with walk-out basement instead --> I think this is the smarter way to go no matter your age.

mxk3 that's a really good point about the different levels. We're a young family in our mid thirties and probably envision staying here until retirement/our kids move out. I do have aging inlaws though, but the walk in basement should help with that. That's where the guest bedroom will be, with an attached full bathroom.

Bungalows (which I know are very popular in some parts of the US) are really not that common here. Two story homes with basement are the norm for a family home.

I should add to that my inlaws currently live in a two story home with basement.

When I read the word "tri-level" above, to me that is a split-level home with half-flight of stairs going up, half-flight going down, the floors are "staggered" -- not a colonial (two-story) with a basement. So maybe I mis-read something above and you're looking to build traditional two-story with basement (which, I still wouldn't want to grow old in, but you're not at the point where that's really a concern for you)

As long as the master bedroom and bath, and laundry, are on the same level as the kitchen and living areas, it seems it would be easy to age in place in this plan until one can no longer negotiate stairs. Even if that happens at a fairly young age (65?), the house could be enjoyed for many years. You might want to explore the possibility of building some kind of dumbwaiter-type lift into the pantry area, for groceries. If one becomes disabled and has special ADA requirements, that would be different--and difficult to predict.

Mostly from the kitchen perspective I'll make some suggestions which will make the plan more functional, but they might not satisfy those who want you to start over. I would cut back the wall by the fridge as far as possible, while still blocking the view to the BR from the dining table. You'll need a cabinet or filler between the fridge and wall, to allow the fridge to open far enough to remove drawers and crispers for cleaning. I'd suggest exploring the possibility of recessing the fridge into the bathroom, by moving the vanity wall forward. You could have the storage of a standard-depth fridge without it protruding too far into the work aisle. Since you wouldn't need the storage space to the left of the fridge, that could be incorporated into the BR as a narrow, shallow space for shelves for shoes or purses. I would center the range and hood on the remaining perimeter counter, and store dishes in drawers to the right, across from the DW.

As another poster suggested, leave the eating nook for toys or a child's table while the kids are young. I'd adjust the large window and add a bookcase to the side without the window. Kids' books and toys can be stored there for a quick pick-up, and then when the kids have outgrown the floor toys, a bench can be added for a reading nook. Omitting the small table will give you space to extend the island as I've drawn it.

Having lived with a 72" vanity with one sink, for 26 years, I would suggest one sink in the master bath, with more counter space on each side.

Also, having been raised in two split entry homes, I think you need more space in the foyer, especially with the closet. I moved the wall out, and added a few inches to the powder room, although I'm not sure how that will work with them being on two different half-levels''. Another window was added on the front, with a high window in the PR, and maybe one over the bed--if you want more windows on that side of the house. I know--easy for me to say add a couple of feet here, add a window there, and move this wall. :[

I agree with the big picture input you've gotten about the problems in the plan, but just to chime back in on the original question, definitely far too many eating spaces, and not enough living room space. We just built a new house with an island with seating for three and a single large dining table, and we love that combo. What I do wish we had was a game/puzzle table in our t.v. room, but until my daughter ages out of using her separate craft space there we probably don't have space to swap that in. With three kids I'd much rather have fewer places to eat and another separate place for board games/puzzles/crafts.

Oh, you meant from the dining table, not the island!

thanks so much for all the ideas mama goose! I think we'll likely start over at this point. And we'll definitely get a kitchen designer involved when the time is right.

As an update, we spoke to an architect yesterday and he's familiar with our land and seems like he would be a good fit. We're thinking we may just bring his ideas to the technologist for them to draw the technical drawings (as opposed to designing the space). This is a tough conversation to have though because we don't want to damage the relationship since they'll ultimately be doing our drawings (because we paid them a chunk of money already and also because technologists are hard to come by around here with everyone being so busy). I think they're able to do the technical drawings, just maybe leave the design of the house itself to the architect. I'm just not sure how to present that to them since they clearly are present themselves as being able to design homes and may be offended. Not a fun position to be in. We're supposed to speak to the owner of the firm tomorrow. We shall see...

Please let us know how it goes. Good luck to you.

Update: We ended up speaking to the owner and she apologized and said she would like the opportunity to fix it. We have a meeting scheduled to discuss next week.

In the mean time, we found an architect who will help us with the design based on the terrain we're working with. He is familiar with the land, because he's the architect for the land development. We didn't know he was offering his services. He's the one who gave us the idea to build onto the hill in the first place, so hopefully he can help. I know some homes that he's designed and I do love them so there is hope.

The problem is that we still haven't told the technologists about our decision. I think it would be best if we just told them in person, but at the same time I don't want to waste their time and have them do more design work. Ultimately we want them to draw our technical plans so it's not like they're missing out on business, but they ago may be hurt.

Why do you need them to draw the plans? Why is your architect not drawing the plans you need? Don't worry about hurting feelings through actions (like going in a different direction), just worry about being kind and courteous with your words and you will feel at peace.

We had a bad experience with a contractor who had all 5 star reviews. We let them try to make it right and it just kept getting worse.. until the poor owner was beside himself. But when the last "fix" went badly, we shut it down. Looking back, there were red flags from the beginning, and I wish we had just shut it down earlier. But we were always kind and polite.

It will not be comfortable asking this firm to draw up plans you got when you jumped ship to use your architect, who sounds like a great fit. Ask your architect for recommendations on who to use for whatever other services you need.

Agree with Emily and remember this is a business deal.