When do you start your peppers, Zach? I wish I could determine an optimum time, but my results are all over the map. Start 'em in February and they're falling over by June, start 'em in April and they're too small. And results from March are all over the map.

I start them the last week of February. I mostly grow chinense like hab's, and they tend to grow slower than annuums.

Not sure why yours would be so floppy? I turn a fan on my seedlings pretty regularly and as long as I keep the light nice and close, they stay pretty stocky. The problem I do have with starting them so early is they are a lot harder to harden off than the stuff that's been inside a lot less time.

I don't have artificial light, just use daylight from sorta-transparent south-facing roof and windows, so I suspect that when they get too leggy, its when we have too many cloudy days. I do the fan thing as well, but it seems that all it takes is one or two days when I don't get around to it, and they're another inch taller.

I'd be pretty happy to have thick-stemmed, one foot high plants starting to flower when I set the containers outside in June.

Yeah, I can see why they'd be a little hard. Some stuff like tomatoes you start late enough and they grow fast enough you don't have to worry so much, and you can kind of push the starting date forward and still have good sized transplants. Peppers are a little slower and you start them so much earlier that it's a lot more time for things to go "wrong."

I tried the "bright windowsill" method one year. It was a complete failure and I switched over lights. Never looked back. have you thought about grabbing a cheap shop light fixture, even just for peppers? I think you would be happy with the results.

Edit to add:

You live down on the Western Slope, don't you David? I drive to Montrose once a month and if you want some pepper plants this spring and you are near that area, I'd be happy to get you some.

This post was edited by ZachS on Thu, Jan 15, 15 at 23:14

I'm curious -- what size pots are advisable for peppers, for season-long use?

I could combine both worlds of lightning. An 8' fixture has hung from the ceiling in my south room window. An 8' fixture has hung from the ceiling in the greenhouse. The problem with continuing the practice has been that by the time I begin to be desperate for sunlight, it's time to move the plants out of the south window to the greenhouse or out of the greenhouse to a plastic tunnel. Each move results in just a little better light conditions. (However, I'm virtually always nearly desperate for sunlight except during the summer ... ;o)

Is the railroad guy 4 years old this year, Zach?

Steve

Zach, thanks for the offer on plants to Montrose, I'm a further 130 miles on. I'll be ok - I just need to baby them a bit more. Every year, I'll get aphids as well, and even one or two on a plant, that sets them back weeks. So its out picking up each plant and eyeballing it every day....

I'm finding I get better results with tomatoes by starting seeds close to April 10th, use a heat mat for germination, then transplant the seedlings into larger 4x4x5 inch pots two weeks later. They rip right along.

Steve, if its one plant, the 3 gal size seems to be big enough. I put 3-5 plants in 8-10 gallon size, but that depends on the varieties - I can pack in 5 Gypsy sweet peppers but 3 Jalapeno.

For real fun, two years ago I planted the 2-3 inch high pepper seedlings in the large, final pots and had them growing in the greenhouse until June, pinching off baby peppers. It took up half the space and I was tripping over the pots for months. The plants were enormous, stems about 3/4 inch dia, by September, and even the huge 10 gal pots were full of roots.

Sure David, no problem. Good luck with your peppers this year. If they get too lanky, you can plant them deeper and they will grow roots like tomatoes (albeit much slower) contrary to popular belief. I only had aphid problems on one plant this year, and I think it was already stressed from having not been x-planted when it should have so maybe that was even more encouragement for the little turds. Then when I moved them inside for the winter, it was a full blown infestation so I broke down and bought some spray.

I use whatever container I have handy. I grew one in a 5 gallon home depot bucket and one in an old recycling bin last year. The one in the bin did leaps and bounds better than the bucket, but that could be for a variety of reasons unrelated to container size. Ironically, the one in the bucket is still green while the other started going south rapidly around Christmas. Well see if the former starts putting on new growth this spring when it goes back outside...

Yup the little conductor will be four next month (which means I will be 26 in about two weeks... Holy crap...)

Heres a picture of the orange hab's last year, the one in the recycling bin and the 5 gal bucket. Once I brought them in for the winter, the bigger one put out a second flush of flowers, but I think the combination of poor lighting and aphids made them all fall off. Then, like said, around Christmas, it took a major dive and I'm pretty sure it's not coming back.

{{gwi:2130289}}

See, habaneros were a total waste of time, space, etc.for me.

By season's end, each plant produced one misshapen pod, sort of. I'm sure that all of my peppers are stunted by the unkind weather of spring. Habaneros were just tormented by the inhumane experiment.

Setting out a bunch of Thai Hots in half gallon pots would be easy for me but I doubt if that would be an adequate pot size for even those small plants.

Steve

That sounds to a T my experience with bell peppers. I will probably just stop growing them all together. Stunted plants that don't produce much of anything. Not to mention, while all my peppers are "tricky" to harden off, the bells don't take to it at all. After several weeks I finally give up and tell them "sink or swim" as I put them in the garden for good. I've tried OP ones, hybrid ones, in ground, in pots, and still, they just do downright crappy. Im growing three kinds of hot peppers this year, all C. chinense, this year instead of wasting my time with sweet annuums.

My habaneros, on the other hand, produce great starting about mid-late August and with some extra effort in lifting and carrying pots, I can get ripe ones through October. Off of those two plants last year, I was picking a dozen or more peppers a week for probably close to two months.

I almost bought (and still might....) a packet of Thai hots, I would use one of my smaller (~1/2-1 gallon) pots I've got stashed in the shed. If I do, I'll let you know how it goes.

This post was edited by ZachS on Sat, Jan 17, 15 at 15:48

Glad you posted this thread, Zach! I need to start planning how/where to start my seeds.

We had one year where our seeds did super - but DH doesn't want to take over half the garage like that again (it was his idea, but between the florescent fixtures and all the flats, he found he didn't have much space left to do his other projects). The next few years, I took it over and set things inside the house. I've tried using available natural light with some along with some incandescent and fluorescent bulbs. Last year was probably the best from this arrangement, primarily using the florescent shop lights, but they were still rather small and leggy. The tomatoes did fine through the season, but the peppers didn't make it very long. I'm sure other causes were in play, but having a better start would have helped.

I was thinking it might be better for them if I used natural/plant light bulbs in the fixtures instead of regular florescent. Zach and David - what kind of bulbs do you use?

Other than changing the type of light OR getting my husband to take charge of this again ;^), will have to maybe try having more light fixtures, keep them closer to the seedlings, and/or enclose the area they are in so it retains the moisture - my husband had draped clear plastic sheeting so it hung over the fixtures and plants to make it like a greenhouse, and with his success, maybe my keeping the soil moist and spritzing them just isn't quite enough.

Marj

Marj, just tell him it's only for a couple months, three tops! (And then later in the summer for fall cabbage and Brussels sprouts ...)

As far as lights go, incandescent bulbs aren't going to give off much (if any) usable light for plants. Most of it is given off as heat, and higher temps can also promote sprangley seedlings. Whatever fixtures you have the incandescent bulbs in, I'd swap them out for CFL's.

I also just use 4' fluorescent bulbs from Home Depot, no fancy grow bulbs here. I look for 6500K "daylight" bulbs the closest you can get to "cool" or "blue" on the little graph the better IMO. I will spare you the "why" unless you are really interested in chlorophyll and wavelengths and phototropism.

I will tell you I think that grow bulbs are a waste of money, they usually cost 2,3,4 times as much as the regular ol' tubes, I get just as good of results without spending the extra cash, and so can you ;).

Another thing you can do to help combat the legginess is to run a fan on them for a few hours a day, or even just run your hand over the tops of them (kind of like petting them) it helps sturdy them up.

Can't wait to see everyone's gardening!! I think it's almost time to start talking about what are growing too :D

Patience ...

I've been in trouble far more often by leaving the starting blocks too soon, than too late. It's a marathon not a sprint. (Actually, treating it as a virtual team sport has certainly made me a better gardener :o)

The odd thing is that I never quite learn. So "patience - patience," applies more to me than anyone else ...

Steve ;o)

You're right, Steve. I too have been bitten by jumping the gun. Each year I get progressively better. It's not that we "never quite learn" it's that there is a "learning curve" (at least, it sounds better that way...)

It sounds better. However ...

You ain't gonna be turning 26 on Ground Hog's Day, is ya?! My son is old enuf to be your father ... I was gardening before he came along! Now, just when is it that a gardener comes to a little "leveling off" on that learning curve?

Oh, it's all good :o). I'm a better gardener than I once was! Nowhere can that be better seen than in the pepper patch. I can remember that the ones I used to set out were only a couple of inches high! I still managed to nearly kill myself with hot pepper, seasoning my winter stew!

Italian Sweets do well for me, Zach. They seem more forgiving than bells. I guess they must be.

Steve

Hahaha, Steve, you guessed it! I'd go out and buy a lotto ticket if I were you.

Leveling off? I wasn't prepared for a follow up question.....

Not sure if my growing techniques are any better, but I sure am a lot more organized. I can remember a garden I had that was like trying to walk through a jungle to go pick anything from it. I had to take ballet classes just to get from one end to the other. Boy, did I learn my lesson.

I thought about those Italian sweets, I have heard they are better than the bell type. But, I ordered some Thai hots instead. I took your bringing them up as a sign that I shouldn't have cut them from the list in the first place.

Glad to have found this thread! I am beginning tons of tomatoes and peppers and eggplants and herbs from seed for the first time this year (both for me and friends/family). I will admit I am a bit daunted by the task. I have all of my necessary equipment, but timing everything correctly has me a little nervous. Plans for my garden alone include 16-18 tomato plants, 24 pepper plants, 2 eggplants and a host of other fruits and veggies I'll direct sow after last frost. I've only been gardening a couple years (this will be my 3rd season) and have become utterly obsessed with it.

Because I have a ton of seed, I actually started some tomatoes and peppers and herbs already so I have a short window of time to "practice" before starting a whole bunch at one time. I figure 45-60 days will give me a decent enough window to see how far along plants will be by the end of February when I will need to begin my peppers and several types of herbs. The tomato seedlings should break surface any moment and several of the herbs (thyme and marjoram) are already doing very well under the grow lights. I also have 11 day old Extra Dwarf Pak Choi growing under the lights that are beginning their 2nd set of true leaves. They're FUN!!!

Based on the average of the past 5 or so years in my immediate area (Erie), the last frost date has been within the first week of May. My master plan is to harden off beginning around May 05 and transplant/direct sow the summer plants the weekend of May 16 (not before). I transplanted on May 18 last year. Obviously, we all know Rocky Mountain weather doesn't really follow the dates on the calendar.. but that's my plan. :)

Please keep this thread alive and kicking! There is a ton of useful information here!

This post was edited by NBM81 on Thu, Jan 22, 15 at 15:22

Timing, I think, is a learned technique. My biggest problem (and I venture to guess many others) is I get bored and want to do SOMETHING besides look outside my window at the snow, so I start putting seeds in starter cells too early. NOT THIS YEAR ZACH! NO! NO! NO! Bad!

My second biggest problem is I get worried that things won't germinate, so I start early enough to start over if I need to. I'm not sure how to keep the anxiety to a minimum.

Last year I had so much extra junk under my lights, it was impossible to keep them organized. "well, maybe I can put this under there? Maybe this, too?" I had a whole flat of gladiolus bulbs that I wanted to get started so they had some growth before they went outside. Last minute idea (that worked great, I had blooms on those suckers by the end of July. It just took up lots-o-room) In spite of all my efforts to the contrary, everything turned out just fine. But boy was I happy when I could start putting them outside. This year, I am sticking to a schedule and sticking to a plan!! Well, what's that saying about the best laid plans?

My biggest concern this year is space. I had to drop a 4-bulb 4' fixture from the lineup because it is too wide for that closet, so, I am down a full fixture... To help remedy this, I am starting later (see above)

I started tomatoes on March 17th last year, so I had to go through several (2? 3?) "pot ups" before they finally got outside. Larger pots take up more room, at least that's what math tells me, so, I'm starting later, later, later this year in hopes that they get to stay in smaller pots before I start putting them outside during the day... We'll see.

I am jealous, I only have room for 9 tomatoes, and I will be growing out AT LEAST 18 plants... just in case. Peppers all go in posts, so I am only limited by my budget for containers and medium...9 of those, too. So there's 18 more plants.

Eggplant, well, I probably made a mistake in planning those into the garden this year, but we'll see how it works. 6 of those so 12 more plants under the lights. That brings me to a grand total of...... 48! Small scale by many standards, but, it's going to be tight quarters for me. Everything else is direct sown. Beans, lettuce, etc....

Well, there's a big long post about absolutely nothing. That's what happens when I drink lots of coffee and haven't eaten yet.

OH! One more thing to add for those of us who get bored and start too early out of "cabin fever"I have decided to take up winter sowing flowers. first and foremost because I haven't the room for them indoors, and second of all, because it gives me something to do in the dead of winter without starting my plants too early ;).

(If you have any specific questions so many folks here at RMG have a lot of experience starting things indoors, and growing plants in general.There are also those *other* forums, and wile they are good and full of knowledgeable folks, and I do poke around them from time to time, the folks here at Rocky Mountain Gardening beat those *other guys* hands down).

Zach, I LOVE your long posts because I feel exactly the same way! I do love our varied seasons, but it's about this time each year I really start missing green leaves and chirping birdies. Keep 'em coming!

So you said you started your tomatoes on March 17 last season. When did you transplant and how large were your seedlings at that time? My plans are to start peppers March 01 and tomatoes and eggplant shortly thereafter, but I'm worried that 8-10 weeks of growth may be a bit too long. I have a lot of space to grow (20 linear feet of grow lights), but with ~45 tomato plants, 30+ pepper plants and 8 or so eggplants, I don't want the plants getting *too* big before I transplant. Ideally, I'd like everything to be 10"-14" tall, give or take, but I also understand everyone's growing conditions and techniques vary wildly. I have plenty of larger pots (½-gallon are my largest "seedling" pots). My basement stays a very consistent 68º.

Also, how long do you normally harden your plants off? My house faces north, so my front porch seems the ideal location for beginning hardening off since it is completely shaded most of the day. The NE corner of the porch gets several hours of morning sun, so the whole area should work for the first 3 or 4 days of hardening off. My backyard is full sun year-round and I figure after 4 days or so out front, the plants should be able to handle more sun and I can move them under some chairs with blankets at night to keep them a little warmer, if necessary. At a week or so, I figure they should be able to handle everything pretty well, but will be prepared to put them in the garage if unseasonably cold weather is anticipated. I plan on taking 10-14 days for the hardening off process if I even need to do it for that amount of time.

In the meantime, I keep forgetting I planted ~150 cloves of garlic in October (2 hard neck and 2 soft neck). About 40 of them are in containers in the backyard and over 100 were planted in the raised flower bed out front after I yanked the summer flowers. Since that area gets full shade all winter, but full sun from March through October, it'll be interesting to see the comparisons. Both areas had quite a few garlic sprouts break surface before the really cold weather set in and I notice they all grow just a little bit more when we get a period of milder weather.

Speaking of milder weather, I am sure looking forward to this weekend's 50s and 60s! I need to get out and pull the rest of my dead flowers and start getting some of my containers prepped for late March planting. I also have a trip to HD planned for additional garden stakes, cages, ties, buckets, etc. I'd rather get that taken care of now than wait for the insane spring rushes which are just around the corner, really. Last weekend was nice enough that I got *some* clean-up done, but didn't finish it.

Anyone else planning to get out and do anything in the garden this weekend?

I won't be. We had an inch of rain/snow the other day. That was a record for the day and wouldn't have been a problem on this quick-draining glacial till. The problem was that the ground was frozen. It appears to be fixin' to happen again. There will be runoff flowing through my backyard!

Welcome to RMG, NBM81!

I have very little experience starting plants under lights but can comment on hardening-off. Apparently, I take a conservative approach and it helps that I'm around here so much.

Time frame: no less than 2 weeks. My Sweet Spot is on the south side of my house ... but, the north side of a large deciduous tree - filtered sun. The first few days may just be a few hours during the warmest part of the day. Days later, they will have more time and be further out in the yard and sunshine.

The plants will miss a few days outdoors because of inclement weather. Whether the nights are okay late in the process or not, they will spend all nights sheltered. I figure that being out all night in the open is of no benefit to them and if we have reached the time when they can stay outdoors, they may as well go off to the garden.

Low tunnels are set up on the lawn if the plants cannot be transplanted out and there is no room for them indoors. Crowding can be a problem if the weather is bad and they have to stay in the tunnels through days and nights of bad weather.

Steve

I would love our seasons more if there was fewer months of snow and ice and slipping and sliding on the roads. Having the truck in 4x4 mode kills gas mileage and when you forget to turn it off, can wreak havoc on joints and axles..... Lets not forget the old back leaning over a D-1 dozer pushing snow down the driveway and brushing off the car and chipping ice off the windshield and on and on and on and on..... About 1 month, maybe 2 at the most, of winter is all I really need to cool off and unwind from the summer. I guess there is geese to shoot, so it's not all a loss.

As for the chirping birds, late winter/early spring is alright for bird watching. My mother keeps a multi-feeder pole outside the kitchen window and when they start migrating we get to see some pretty neat ones (we had a mallard land and spend over a half hour eating what the finches dropped last year and we had 2 different kinds of grosbeak and Stellar's Jays, which was odd because were a few miles east of the Hogback and those guys usually stay up in the foothills).

Anyways,

I transplanted tomatoes on... let me get my notebook (it has dinosaurs on it, my wife got it for me)... it says "Transplanted tomatoes into pots and garden. Pots: 05/17 in ground: 05/19..."

No measurements, but lets take a look and see if I can come up with some pictures:

{{gwi:71905}}

I THINK this was shortly after I transplanted them (I don't recall them being THAT big when I put them in those pots, but, that was durn near a year ago so, who knows.

Of course, they had been in and out of the house since April I think (let me see if I took notes on that one...) Yup, April 23 says "Started leaving toms, peppers, basil outside..." So, I'm not sure if that means they had been briefly outside before then or if the 23rd was the first day thay had been put outside at all... Either way, I started doing that because there is absolutely no way that they were fitting under my lights (I had 20 some tomato seedlings, 6 peppers, 6 basil, plus everything else that had gotten shoved under those lights). I don't worry too much about size at transplant, unless they are insy-weensy, then I I worry only because who knows if they will grow fast enough to give me fruit before frost. Except of course, the space thing.

The thing is, I am highly disorganized by the time May comes around and really, pretty tired of fussing over seedlings. I didn't even like my own son until he turned 3*, babies are not my thing. So, once they start going outside, I put them where they get full day shade, then I put them out there in the morning, and take them in at night. No 1 hour this, 2 hours that, 4 hours tomorrow blah blah blah. I don't have time for that, and in addition to being exceptionally disorganized, I am thoroughly lazy gardener. It's my hobby, I get to be lazy with my hobbies, right?

After a few days in the shade, it's time to move them to dappled shade for the few days. I refuse to spend time toting dozens of plants around the yard chasing the sun and following the shade. So dappled shade for a few days. Then, its on to a spot that gets a little bit of full on sun, then shade then I think I finally say "good enough" (this is all very strict and scientific, you see).... I'm fortunate in this respect because my yard is shade-challenged and finding spots that suit my style is pretty easy. I have about 3 spots, then its all day sun, or, as much as I can give them without having to move them, except indoors for the night.

So, this whole rigmarole begins once we have warm days in April. If we get crap weather, well, they stay inside by the back door for the day...or two...or three... then we pick up right where we left off until whatsherface on 9 News tells me we should be in the clear and I go ahead and plant them. Then they get beat to hell by hail for next month-month and a half, and finally summer time arrives, usually just in time for snow. But, that's neither here nor there and not pertinent to the overall discussion of pre-transplanted seedlings (as if to say anything I have written up this point is at all pertinent... it's not)

As far as nights go, mine sometimes stay out at night (I did mention laziness) but I don't follow Steve's guideline of, if they can stay out at night, they can be planted in the garden. Not that he is by any means wrong in that, except to say sometimes we may get a good 45-50 degree night on April 30th to be followed with a foot of snow on May 3rd. So, that's the reasoning behind my particular brand of madness.

I have found that if I line them all up like a nice row of little ducklings right against the house, they stay much warmer than if I were to leave them in the middle of the yard, no covering. Chances are it will just blow away anyways. So why, you may ask not just bring them indoors since I'm moving them anyways? Well, to me hardening off is first about increasing light intensity of course, but also temperature changes. Getting them used to the cool night air is important too, IMO.

Sounds like you have plenty of room, once again I am extremely jealous. I was going to plant garlic, but I was hard pressed to get some tulip and daffodil bulbs in (which probably wont grow anyways) so the garlic got put off and put off, then the ground froze. Whoops, maybe next time.

I just started school, my first class was Wednesday... I really don't feel like thinking about garden clean up or construction quite yet. Maybe if we get a nice warm spell in February or March. Not to mention there's still lots of white stuff and then when it melts, it all just be a layer of squish on top of frozen dirt Though, I probably will want to soon, I need a trellis for peas by sometime in April....

WHEW! I need a cigarette after all that, but, you said you like to read, and I can be pretty long-winded. My old roommate back in the barracks was this fellow from Marshall, Arkansas, I think I picked up his story telling gene from living with him for so long. (Matter of fact, even after I got married and moved out of the barracks, he still practically lived with me, haha)

*I'm just kidding, I liked him before he turned three.....

Hi guys,

I've had all kinda of stuff going on, so haven't been around much for a couple months!

In reply to Misty a week ago, and others since then, back in my "plant heyday" I had a whole bedroom that I called my Plant Room and the whole thing was filled up with shop lites hanging over banquet tables. I hung them from chains with S hooks so they were very easily adjustable, and I used ordinary cool white fluorescent bulbs. With fluorescent you can keep them really close, and the foliage can even grow up into the bulbs without damage to the plants. And they're cheap! (And back then shop lites were "all the rage" and you could get them just about anywhere for $!0 a fixture!) I agree with Zach (? I think it was!) that grow lites are just a ripoff! With the fluorescent, with things like house plants I'd keep them 8-10" above the plants, and with seedlings I'd keep them just 2-3" above the plants--literally, almost touching them. That works pretty well to keep them from stretching too much. I also had all my lites on timers--plants really do do better with some sleep, just like human beings. I think I had the lites on about 16 hours a day.

One thing nobody has mentioned here yet (or else I missed it!) is that the seedlings NEED "wind!" I learned that the hard way! Without it they just don't build up any strength in the stems and they can blow over easily when they're planted outside, or even inside they can "fall over" and sometimes break off! If they're gonna stay inside all the time till you're getting ready to plant them out, be sure to have a fan on them for part of each day, and also be sure to rotate the plants so the "wind" is coming from different directions. What I do with mine once they get a couple inches tall is to carry them out into the yard every day when it's sunny and warm enough to do it. That gets them the natural sun from an early stage, making it less likely that they'll be sunburned if you start taking them out when they're bigger, and also gets them into the natural wind to strengthen them. That also gets you into the: carry them out -- cary them in -- carry them out.......

Like Zach--and others--WAITING to start them is one of my biggest problems. Every year I start them later and later! I for sure won't be starting anything until the end of March this year, and maybe the beginning of April. I may need to duct tape myself to something to keep me from planting something, but I WILL NOT start them any sooner!

And something I now do that I don't think anybody else around here does is that I put them in the ground really late! in 2013 I didn't have my soil ready and I didn't get them into the ground until about the middle of June--and I had one of the best tomato (and other things) years I had ever had! Last year I was planning to put them in the ground about the second week in June, but I was "otherwise occupied" and I didn't get them into the ground until June 23rd--and once again I had a really good tomato year! They looked so tiny when I planted them--SO late, but with the soil thoroughly warmed up by then they very (amazingly!) quickly caught up and in a month I couldn't tell any difference from the years I had planted them early--and worried about them freezing--and had all kinds of problems with various "tomato diseases!" From now on I won't be putting anything into the ground until sometime after the beginning of June! I took a lot of pics again last year, but don't have any of them "postable" at this point or I'd show you how tiny they looked when I planted them--and how big they got, so fast!

I got a bunch of bulbs at the Van Engelen end-of-season sale again this year and have been out planting them just about every time it's been warm enough to do it! As most of you know, planting is a time consuming--and very frustrating--project for me here with the endless maze of cottonwood roots I'm always digging in! Hoping to finish the last of them in the next two BEAUTIFUL days we're gonna have down here! (Sorry you can't be out right now, Digit! But then you DO have all your wonderful INSIDE growing places to be working in!) And after I get the bulbs finished I still have some cleanup with the perennials I need to finish before it starts to warm again. I LOVE living here in Denver where there are days (almost every winter) when we can be out gardening all winter long!

Lazy gardening is the best kind, Zach!

Skybird

P.S. I'm still real busy and may not get back to answer if somebody asks a direct question--but other folks' answers are as good as mine!!!

Ha! Throw in that last sentence to wreck all the other good advice, Skybird!

I don't know. It's always my hope that the plants will eke out some tiny growth, some tiny advantage by going out early. By the way, when I say I'm a better pepper grower now than years ago -- I mean indoor starts are better. Maybe they should stay there ... until July ... it may not be good enuf just to blame my location for the struggles the peppers have outdoors.

Indoors, I failed to get nicely started Asian greens to move into the greenhouse last fall, Skybird. The late warm weather rushed them to maturity - meaning that all greenhouse plants were started indoors, from seed. There was no December harvest. After one year's experience (winter '13/'14), I had no expectations for a January harvest. Too cold even in this warm winter but, mostly, it's too dark. Every bok choy and such will have to come out over the next 6 weeks, however! Tiny, half-grown, or otherwise - the greenhouse will have to be a clean slate early in March!

Steve

Great advice, Skybird! Definitely agree with the "wind," even running your hand over the top of them every now and then will help sturdy them up. Though, I use a fan because it's multipurpose. It helps lower the temperatures, it beefs up the plants, and it keeps things a little dryer to reduce fungus and nasties.

I don't try to push the season too much. Once again, laziness... I don't like the extra hassle of covering and building tunnels, so I don't use any early season extenders. Well, last year, I did have to plant my onions out early though, so those did get covered with typar landscape fabric several times. Of course, 3/4 of them bolted on me anyways, so it was just an effort of futility. This year, I am shooting for plant out to be May 25-June 1st. I don't think I could convince myself to wait until the middle of June... I "relocated" some volunteer tomatoes about that time last year, and they never ripened.

Slowly, my garden is becoming overrun with aspen roots (and subsequently, the "shoots"), and the God-forsaken Aegopodium. I wish I knew how to really get rid of that garbage, but, I do believe that at this point, it is impossible.

If you get tired of digging through cottonwood roots, Skybird, I have plans to put in a brand new perennial bed in the front yard... Come to think of it, I will want to at least pick your brain about some things having to do with that when you get some time.

Steve, when in doubt ALWAYS blame the equipment, conditions, whatever BEFORE blaming yourself, that's what I do ;).

Hi all and thanks to Zach for inviting me over to the Rocky Mountain forums from the Winter Sow forums!

I'm over here on the east side of Denver, out in the 'burbs. This is my fifth year gardening, and I find I'm just starting to get serious about it. Everything has been trial and error and getting my feet wet up until now.

So glad I found this thread, too, just in the nick of time. I'm doing peppers this year, and I'm serious this time. I mean it!

Last year was a comic disaster as I did no research beyond planting seed in a cell on the back porch. Honestly, I don't know what I was thinking. I'm sure the look on my face was priceless at the end of summer when only a very few of the peppers I'd seeded had actually sprouted and were only a few inches tall, if that.

Determined to get it right this year, I tucked in and did some research. And by research, I mean youtube (shameful, I know). Thankfully, I've found you all; my saving grace!

Reading this thread now I see that I may have I've jumped the gun by listening to a person from Minnesota talk about germinating seed in January. And by his planting date of May 20 his plants looked desperate to escape their red solo cups. Yikes!

Good news is, I have lots of seed. Bad news is, I started warming some and so far only the red jalapeno has germinated enough to be planted, and just barely. Everyone else is mostly still tucked up but swelling nicely. I am germinating in papertowels under a heating pad.

I'm too early, aren't I? I'm like that person who rings the bell at 4 for the 6 o'clock party. Embarrassingly early!

I'm curious, about what date do you, the reader, start your seed germination east of the Rockies? At was date do you like to have them big enough to be transferred into dirt to begin their growth?

I'm a little nervous, but determined. Thanks, and I too, love long posts. :)

Glad you found us, Grouchy! I must say, Rocky Mountain is best group of folks this side of the internet (and also, probably, the prime meridian)

That is a pretty good story! Reminds me of some of my gardening "mishaps" over the years! One time, I planted seeds, and watered once, and then hemmed and hawed over why the damn things never sprouted (I must mention, I had been in Hawaii for some time before returning to the great State of Colorado, I had not planted a single thing that ever once required supplemental watering...the only reason I owned a hose was to clean my car and my boots)! Wasn't until my (then) 18 month old son dumped out a whole packet of bean seeds the afternoon before a spring deluge that it finally clicked ... Yup, I'm pretty dense! Then there is the time I planted, not one, but TWO giant, indeterminate 'Cherokee purple' tomato plants in LESS than 1 cubic foot of dirt! Oh lordy, and my mishaps of starting from seed are endless (I have killed dozens more cabbages that I have ever actually grown)

I don't think there's anything wrong with Youtube videos to help us out! Plenty of knowledgeable folks put up good information there. For me, personally, I can typically read things dozens of times and still not get it. I need the visual/spacial thing to help me get the gist. Youtube is great for that!

I don't think January is too early. At least not "embarrassingly" so. I THINK one of our posters here (though, she doesn't come around as much as she used to) Bonnie (HighAltTransplant) starts her peppers in January and continues through March, IF I'm remembering correctly (maybe her ears are burning and she'll come around and set the record straight, if so, disregard everything I say and listen to her, she's got much more experience with peppers than me. Come to think of it, most other people here have FAR more experience than me, so if anyone else comes around and says anything, you should probably listen to them).

Peppers often take their sweet time germinating, especially hot chinense varieties. Anuum's, like bells and jalapenos are generally a bit quicker to wake up. They also grow faster, too.

If you are germinating peppers in January, or even February for that matter, they will assuredly be much beyond the Solo cup stage by May! That's not a bad thing, particularly in the tragically short growing season of the Mountain West , it just means you need to pot them up more. The Montana grower isn't necessarily starting too early, he is just neglecting to follow through on some, IMO, pretty important steps. (Of course I am guilty of neglecting seedlings, but I also don't post them on Youtube as the example of how it OUGHT to be done,)

Me, personally, I start them in late February. If you made it through that post somewhere up there, you'll see that I am lazy, and don't like fussing over seedlings for 5 months. Did that last year, starting January first with some stuff and got the last of my plants in the dirt on May 19th-ish. I was so ready for that day. That snow on Mother's Day had me fit to be tied!

This year, I am planning for plant out of all warm weather stuff to be between May 25-June 1. I have written down to start peppers on February 16, but, I am thinking now I may try to push that forward to March 1, that's roughly 12 weeks, and I think that should be plenty of time. We shall see!

This post was edited by ZachS on Fri, Jan 30, 15 at 1:01

I struggle with peppers every year or they struggle in my garden, anyway.

Rather than having much help to share, mostly, I'm posting on geographical points: Bonnie has been transplanted east of the divide for a number of years and the youtube gardener was identified as in Minnesota. (Montana gardeners, just like Alberta gardeners, are highly skilled pepper people; have to be. ;o)

Related, somehow, peppers are perennial plants. In Southeast Asia, that's also east of the divide, you will find pepper bushes, several years old.

Let's see, is there a way I can be of some actual help? I know! I'll email HiAlt Bonnie!

Steve

I'll try and start my pepper seeds sometime next week, Feb 14th the latest.

Since I have the itch and wwwaaaaayyyyy more seeds than any normal human really needs, I went ahead and started a few 6-cell packs of peppers last week. I had amazing germination with my 6-pack of jalapeño seedlings - I have had 10/12 germinate and 9 of them germinated within 4 days. Another pack with sweet banana peppers has been less successful so far with only 5/12 germinating as of the date of this posting (planted 01/23). I started one lonely cell of tomato seeds and only one seed germinated, but did so in 3 days. It's first set of true leaves is out and once the second set is out, I will transplant to a 3" pot.

Today I started my red and yellow onions (2 6-cell packs of each), another 6-pack of tomatoes and another 6-pack with a few more peppers and a couple of eggplant. All of these are planned as sacrificials, as I know it is very early to start seedlings indoors. If I can manage their size and have the space, I obviously won't sacrifice them, but I'm mostly using this time as a 5-6 week practice run anyway before I get SUPER serious. :)

Also, my experiment growing the dwarf pak choy under grow lights is going exceptionally well. They are at 3 weeks this weekend and should be mature and ready to harvest in 2 weeks; right on schedule (package says 30-40 days). These will definitely be planted wherever I can squeeze them in around the garden and flower beds this spring - at full size they're only about 3"x3"! So much fun to grow!

Pak choy under lights, NBM81? Whoa!

My October-sown pak choy in the greenhouse is now ready. Choyless for 3 months up, until this point in time!

February 17th about 20 years ago was a lesson in starting seed indoors, too early. I should have known that since it was sub-zero that morning, spring would be delayed. It was!

I have waited about a week later than that in more recent years. Put it off until the last few days February/first days of March, last year. It was still too early for the tomatoes.

Peppers should be good for mid-February if they are moved to larger-than-6-packs over the course of the weeks indoors.

I will sow onion seed in the unheated greenhouse -- almost immediately!

Steve

Happy Birthday, Zach!

I've commissioned this little guy ..

. to paint you a sign ..

. for your driveway!

{{gwi:2130290}}

Steve

Hahaha thanks Steve! You shouldn't have! Boy, it sure is appropriate though, I am now closer to 30 than 20... Guess its about time to switch to light beer, damn the bad luck!

Happy birthday, Zach! Not too sure you're quite ready for that sign tho! But, Digit, if you can find one that says "person" instead of "people," maybe I could use one! Or maybe one that says Little Olde (definitely with the E) Lady Crossing! That would work! I'm way past two times your age, Zach, and just a few years from THREE times your age! Take my word for it, it just keeps getting better!

And, I haven't had a chance to come back to reply, but re your post above about recommendations for perennials, start a new thread with all your parameters--sun, soil, how much you want to or are willing to water, heights, colors, and anything else you can think of, and I'll see what I can come up with--and I'm sure other people will have some ideas too.

Happy birthday, KID,
Skybird

Thanks Skybird! Hahaha, not yet? I guess I have to wait until I'm actually 30 not just almost. Good lord, there's a thought! But, if you say it only gets better, that's reassuring.

I kind of have some idea of what I would like to do, and have drawn it out 50,000 times in the past two weeks (it's kept me from, so far, planting my vegetable seeds too early, lol) I will put up a new post about it with more details.

Happy birthday, Zach!

I had hoped in honor of your birthday that Phil would bring tidings of an early spring, but he had other ideas!

I hope you're having a wonderful day anyway.

Skybird is right, it does get better! For me, it has something to do with feeling more comfortable in your own skin and not caring so much about what others think.

Party on!

Barb

Thank you Barb!

I hope that every year, then last year, I got it! Good ol' Phil finally didn't see his shadow (I think, I can't honestly remember)! Then, it decided to snow throughout April, and culminated in a foot of wet, slushy, frozen, white ick on Mother's Day! So, if snow until the middle of May is Phil's idea of short winter, I worry what his predictions of a long one might mean. Snow in June? Freezes in July? Well, maybe he only makes predictions for folks who live at or near sea level, or east of the Mississippi.

Kathy Sabine on the other hand, says that, excluding slight showers later this week, we are due for 50's and 60's at least through February 11th. Hey, now that's a forecast I can get behind!

I think my vanity may disagree. Although, if things get better on my bank account, I could probably get over it!

Party? Anymore, my idea of a party is hoping I don't fall asleep while putting the little one to bed so I can knock back a few Banquet before 11 pm!

This post was edited by ZachS on Mon, Feb 2, 15 at 23:52

So close ... this is my usual time for the first of most things.

I probably shouldn't hold off on ... I probably should hold off ... on everything !

Just need to calm down.

Steve

But, Steve, it's so wonderful to have that excitement every year. The hope, the possibilities! Only calm down enough to have steady hands while you sow. ;0)

Me, too Steve. I looked it up, last year I started peppers on February 20th. This year, I put the first seeds in coffee filters for pre-germination on February 21st, and others I simply soaked in water starting last night. Of the pre-germ ones, 3-4 started showing the radicle today so, I put those ones in cells. I also put some of the soaked ones in as well. I'm hoping that I get some more of the pre-germed ones in the next couple days to fill up the rest of my cells.

I think, after the "waiting to start" the anxiety over whether or not this years seeds will sprout is is the worst part. I never know whether to "just be patient" or to start another batch of seeds. It's almost painful it stresses me out so much LOL.

Things will have about 10 days and then, another sowing. Often, I don't really have much confidence about success or failure in that short amount of time. It's mostly to not have all the eggs in one basket. I try to have some surplus but I'm mostly dividing seed between two planting dates.

The exceptions are the experiments. They will get one go around. If they fail, I'll likely give them another chance in 2016. Another exception is the onions. I've got a lot of depth to the variety bench with about 6 bulb and 3 bunching types. It's a good thing that the seed isn't very expensive ッ. They have weeks to make a start and some are already up nicely!

I'm risk-averse. I'm also work-averse. Trying to compensate for bad conditions means I have to work harder to succeed. I don't like that! Timing really is important and I often can't get it just right but there is little that is more important than my ease and comfort ッ.

Steve