Unfortunately, most OGRs do not have good vase life. The (hybrid perpetual) cultivar 'Marchesa Boccella' has lasted 4 days for me from an open bloom, which I consider to be pretty decent. I totally agree about 'Madame Plantier'; two years ago some strange weather and/or possible allergies left me unable to smell certain classes (albas and damasks), while others were unaffected (teas, gallicas, bourbons, etc.) I could still smell 'Madame Plantier'. It's also extremely healthy, thornless, leafy, supple-stemmed, floriferous, and cold-hardy. I also agree about the remarks about the qualities of each of these classes' fragrances - gallicas being softer with a hint of spice, albas being sweet and fresh, damasks pungent and strong. That was a great description of 'Madame Plantier's perfume, Melissa! I think that the rich, sweet note of the musk rose that passes to many of its particularly double-flowered descendants like this one tends to come from the petals rather than the styles. I do find that most individual varieties have their own fragrance as well, and roses with complex backgrounds tend to have complex fragrance variations from one variety to the next.

Oh yes, the old roses grow and flower beautifully here. Very easy and low maintenance. My favorite rose of all in my garden in fact is the alba Felicite Parmentier. It's a bit early for her flowers this year however. She is leafing out and has buds, but I don't think the flowers will be open until late this month or early next month. I do have past years' flowers of her up on HMF. My gallicas aren't blooming yet, but Jenny Duval is leafed out and has lots of buds. Kraskoje Kawaskole is only partially leafed out. It's a new one for me, in the last couple years or so (own root, Eurodesert via Heirloom), and I don't remember when it started blooming last year. Later than Jenny D. though. Aimable Rouge is from Pickering and has barely started to wake up. My huge damask York and Lancaster always put on a spectacular show. No need to check for buds, when this roses' flowers open the whole garden is enveloped in heady perfume. Who cares if it only blooms once a year, that scent is divine. Madame William Paul is a lovely moss I've had for decades. Reliable bloomer (but only once) in partial shade. Extremely fragrant. Just beginning to flower now. I added another alba this year, Madame Plantier from Pickering and plan on getting more damasks, albas, and gallicas next year, but which ones........ I also want more eglantines, species, and rugosas, but I am running out of space. Ye olde pot ghetto is embarassingly large as it is. Below is the first flower of the year on the moss Rene d'Anjou. Complete with resident spider! From PIckering and grafted on multiflora. RdA repeats very well and smells heavenly (as does Paul Ricault, minus the repeat). Melissa

The number of hours of winter chill, matter with the once blooming old European roses, I live c. 10 miles east of San Francisco, Ca and I think our climate zones may be similar. Temperatures here rarely get below 30 degrees above zero Farenheit, and if so, than at most for a week or so in total, and that every few years, however some of the Alba, Gallica and Hybrid China roses bloom very well here, -de la Grifferaie blooms gloriously for more than a month in spring, and the Apothecary Rose and Alba Semi-Plena have a shorter bloom cycle, but bloom fully. In Oakland, Ca I've grown Celsiana and La Ville de Bruxelles and both are extraordinary roses, for beauty of bloom. La Belle Sultane didn't bloom much for the first two years in my garden but now it is taking off and Luanne, my wonderful neighbor has an older plant that blooms fully and very beautifully. Her plant of 'The Bishop' is the healthiest and most beautiful of the once bloomers in her garden, it produces a bountiful display of red-mauve roses every year. If you want more ideas for Old European roses to grow with borderline winter chill, I suggest that you search the Internet to find out how many hours of winter chill you get each year and compare it with San Jose California and if they are close, then check the website of the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden, They list all the roses they grow. I've seen these blooming at san jose heritage and would grow them where I live: Belle Isis Nestor Felicite Parmentier de Meaux (also grown at the Berkeley Botanical garden) Mme Legras de St. Germain Belle Amour Konigin von Danemark James Mason (a modern Gallica) Gloire de Guilan although the garden is very hot in summer with temperatures in the 90's and triple digits, with few hours of winter chill, San Josee Heritage Rose Garden have dozens of the older European roses, most of these bloom during the weeks between: mid to late May through June most years. Best Wishes, Luxrosa If your garden has as much winter chill as Sebastopol California, then you might look at the list of roses that vintagegardens.com sells, as all of their mother plants are grown on site in that town.

Below is the info. that Floweraremusic (zone 5) in Washington gave on her 2020 winter-survival. She has alkaline clay with rocks at bottom like mine & less snow in winter: "My hardiest roses are the Canadians. John Davis, John Cabot, Wm. Baffin, Morden Sunrise, Morden Blush and Morden Centennial, Victorian Memory aka Isabelle Skinner, also a Canadian rose. All these only have tiny bit of tip damage and bloom a lot with no special care. Also, my Hybrid Perpetuals only have tip damage after winter. Magna Charta, Mrs. John Laing, Black Prince and Marchesa Buccella. The only negative is they don’t have long enough cutting stems. All my Austins are very hardy. The one I just can not grow is Jude. Leonardo da Vinci is super hardy and always healthy. Quietness comes through winter very well. Even Rouge Royale survives beautifully. Cinderella Fairy Tale is very hardy. Gruss an Aachen also. Ballerina and Marjorie Fair are both hardy. Poseidon, Princess Charlene de Monaco and Crazy Love didn’t do as well as I’d hoped. The surprise losses this year are Quicksilver, and Dames de Chenonceau who is left with only 1 cane. Versigny is also reduced down to almost nothing. This was a mild winter with very little snow. " Floweraremusic (zone 5). From StrawChicago (zone 5a with hard black-gumbo alkaline clay & less snow but with freezing rain in winter). Versigny didn't survive winter either. So I lost Versigny TWICE. Besides Versigny, other wimpy own-root roses that don't survive winter well: Paul Neyron, Anna's Promise, Pink Peace (own-root died 1st winter, but grafted-Pink Peace survives many winter), Elantyne, Jude the Obscure, Young Lycidas (bought as grafted-on-Dr.Huey, now with only one cane), Mary Daly, and many floribundas don't survive my zone 5a: Pink Chiffon, Sheila's perfume, King Arthur, Deep Purple, Shocking blue, Honey Bouquet (survived 1 winter). Polka Climber (survived 1 winter), Cloutilde Soupert (died twice on me). Sutter's Gold didn't survive winter, same with many fragrant mini-roses from Burlington nursery. Below are my hardy OWN-ROOT roses in my zone 5a alkaline clay, only Double Delight, Young Lycidas and Lavender Crush are grafted-on-Dr.Huey. Bold-faced are the very vigorous ones: Own-roots with 3 feet of green canes: Carding Mill (since 2012), Princess Charlene of Monaco, Duchess de Rohan, Crown Princess Magareta (since 2012), Zepherine Drouhin, Lady of Shalott, James Galway, Lavender Crush, Queen of Sweden (gave away but very hardy), Poseidon (right below the rain-spout, dug down to 2.5 feet), Scepter'd Isle (very big & hardy own-root but gave that away with its lousy scent). Own-roots with 2 feet of green canes: La Reine (many winters), Blue Mist (since 2012), Prairie Harvest (since 2014), Mary Magdalene (since 2011), Evelyn (since 2012), Radio Times (since 2011), Pat Austin (since 2011), Christopher Marlowe (since 2011), Golden Celebration (since 2011), Lilian Austin (gave away but very hardy), the Squire, the Dark Lady, Wise Portia survived 4 winters but died in poor drainage clay, Dee-lish (since 2015), Twilight Zone (since 2016), William Shakespeare. 2000 (since 2011), Comte de Chambord (since 2012), Princess Anne, Sweet Mademoiselles, Aloha climber, Orchid Romance, Bohemian Rhapsody, Marie Pavie, Lagerfeld (since 2017), Frederic Mistral survived 2 winters but died when I didn't winter-protect with leaves, Sonia Rykiel (survived 3 winters) but died in freezing rain winter, same with 1/4 of the street-trees in my neighborhood, Excellenz von Shubert (since 2013), Own-roots with less than 1 foot of green canes: Gina's rose, Tchaikosky (since 2015), Cornelia (since 2018), Bolero (few winters), Peter Mayle, Sharifa Asma, Neil Diamond, Amber Queen, A Shopshire Lad, Strike it Rich, Old Port (since 2012), Veteran's Honor (many winters), Double Delight (grafted on Dr.Huey), Savannah, Tess of d'Uberville, Gene Boerner (since 2014), thornless Yves Seedling (since 2013), Stephen big Purple (since 2012), Louise Este, Mirandy, Crimson Glory, Liv Tyler survived 1 winter but needs winter-protection, Rouge Royal (bought last year with no winter-protection). Annie L. McDowell (survived 2 winters but needs a wet-spot since it's almost thornless), Nahema (survived 1 winter then died during freezing-rain winter), same with Eyes-for-you (drought-tolerant and doesn't like freezing wet winter), Souvenir du President Lincoln, Madame Issac Pererie and Madame Earnest Calvat, Firefighter (survived 2 winters) but died since it's next to tree. Bayes Blueberry (survived many winters but I gave away), Charles Darwin (gave away since it fades badly), Arthur Bell (since 2012 & killed it since I don't like the flowers). StrawChicago.