Your Centifolias, Damasks, Mosses, Albas, and Gallicas
These are the first blooms of 2014 on my centifolia Paul Ricault. It looks as if this year he will have lots of flowers! Must have liked the hot, dry year (more than I did).;)
Melissa
Comments (11)
portlandmysteryrose
10 years agoRelated Discussions
Do grafted gallicas and damask sucker?
Comments (9)If the graft is buried, a lot of roses will go own-root. An own-root Charles de Mills suckers. An own-root Charles de Mills will eat your garden unless stopped by a hard object like a lawnmower. Whether or not it's a good way to produce more roses depend on how many hundreds of more roses you want, and how well that particular rose sends out side roots along the long sucker roots. Charles de Mills actually isn't very good at that, so I usually have to dig up several feet of long root before anything fibrous shows up. OTOH, Mary, Queen of Scots seems to have fibrous roots practically at the bottom of every cane....See MoreAlba and Gallica roses in N. Texas
Comments (10)Albas and gallicas do great here, and I'm in a very hot and dry summer area. Low annual rainfall. Damasks do well here too (not surprising as they come from a very hot and dry part of the world). Very little winter chill. I don't know exactly how important this is (among various other contributing factors), but my elevation is higher than some who don't do well with these classes in Southern California and who actually have more winter chill than I do. Elevation being something to consider came to my attention after reading about it in a scientific paper written about damasks in the middle east. Another issue that I've been pondering for a while, is how much cultural practices in rose keeping in hot, dry locations, negatively affect the performance of particularly the albas, gallicas, and damasks. One thought that has occurred to me is that the "baseline" of care that is assumed for most roses in the majority of rose pr that has been given to the public over the years, has used the hybrid tea as the example to follow. So from years of information saturation, what the hybrid tea likes best appears to be the standard of care assumed to be ideal for all classes of roses, pretty much everywhere. Well, it ain't necessarily so that all roses like what hybrid teas do--which is lots of fertilizer and water, frequently applied. Think of other garden plants and consider how much variation there is in what the different ones prefer. For example, salvias. Many of the California native salvias are very drought tolerant and may die or just barely survive much summer water. They also don't care for being fertilized. Others however want a rich, moist soil. My albas, damasks, gallicas (and rugosas) are among my most drought tolerant of roses. Since I started with old garden roses, I never got into the "hybrid tea" mentality, and thus my roses have always been grown with only very light and infrequent feedings (sometimes no fertilizer for *years*), and low water. I didn't know until I started reading these and other forums in the last several years that I couldn't grow these roses! The roses recommended, mainly teas and chinas, have been disasters here. They stand out for wanting much more food and water than I'm accustomed to giving my other roses. Guess over the years I've been doing my own Earthkind trials.;) Josh, I don't know how closely your conditions resemble mine which is a mediterranean climate, but if it were me, and I was considering growing a new class or classes of roses, I'd look at where those roses come from and are happy, and how similar those conditions would be in my garden. Actually I would expect albas and gallicas to do well for me, and if they didn't I'd want to look into what I was doing to change the natural environment here into one they didn't like. I think such changes haven't happened because I'm basically a lazy gardener who just isn't into the effort and expense that would entail. Melissa...See MoreCan I have gallicas, albas, centifolias or damasks here?
Comments (6)The number of hours of winter chill, matter with the once blooming old European roses, I live c. 10 miles east of San Francisco, Ca and I think our climate zones may be similar. Temperatures here rarely get below 30 degrees above zero Farenheit, and if so, than at most for a week or so in total, and that every few years, however some of the Alba, Gallica and Hybrid China roses bloom very well here, -de la Grifferaie blooms gloriously for more than a month in spring, and the Apothecary Rose and Alba Semi-Plena have a shorter bloom cycle, but bloom fully. In Oakland, Ca I've grown Celsiana and La Ville de Bruxelles and both are extraordinary roses, for beauty of bloom. La Belle Sultane didn't bloom much for the first two years in my garden but now it is taking off and Luanne, my wonderful neighbor has an older plant that blooms fully and very beautifully. Her plant of 'The Bishop' is the healthiest and most beautiful of the once bloomers in her garden, it produces a bountiful display of red-mauve roses every year. If you want more ideas for Old European roses to grow with borderline winter chill, I suggest that you search the Internet to find out how many hours of winter chill you get each year and compare it with San Jose California and if they are close, then check the website of the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden, They list all the roses they grow. I've seen these blooming at san jose heritage and would grow them where I live: Belle Isis Nestor Felicite Parmentier de Meaux (also grown at the Berkeley Botanical garden) Mme Legras de St. Germain Belle Amour Konigin von Danemark James Mason (a modern Gallica) Gloire de Guilan although the garden is very hot in summer with temperatures in the 90's and triple digits, with few hours of winter chill, San Josee Heritage Rose Garden have dozens of the older European roses, most of these bloom during the weeks between: mid to late May through June most years. Best Wishes, Luxrosa If your garden has as much winter chill as Sebastopol California, then you might look at the list of roses that vintagegardens.com sells, as all of their mother plants are grown on site in that town....See MoreAny Suggestions on Rooting Moss, Gallica, Damask?
Comments (12)Robert, The Albas are particularly difficult creatures. Some varieties I have never managed to root cuttings of, after a decade of trying. ('Konigin von Danemark' comes to mind) A friend once told me that you can root Alba cuttings more easily if you allow the plant to experience a frost before taking wood, but this implies taking hardwood (Winter) cuttings only. The Gallicas and Damasks are quite a bit easier if you time things right. I found the easiest wood to root was one of two: flowering shoots as close to pencil thickness as possible, taken from the plant no more than 2 or 3 weeks after blooms have finished. It is important to take some of the heel on that cutting. In other words, using good secateurs, cut the shoot off the parent branch as close as you possibly can, keeping every millimeter of that shoot and retaining that thicker wood at its base. Its the wood at this branching point that will form callous most easily. The second choice (and with some varieties this worked better for me) I take the mid-Summer basal shoots once they have pretty much stopped growing at the tips and have started to harden (about mid-July in my climate) and I cut these up into 6" pieces, making the cut at the base about 1/4" below a bud eye. On the side opposite the bud eye, scrape the bark lightly to expose the cambium layer, a scrape 1/2 to 3/4" long. The sections that will root most easily will be the ones in the middle of the cane, for most varieties. I had the best success with either kind of cutting wood by placing these in Ziploc bags in soil that was damp but not sopping wet and placing these in a shady location. Some dappled morning or later afternoon light is OK, but no direct light at mid-day should be permitted. Left undisturbed, these should be ready to pot up in 3 to 5 weeks. Paul...See MoreTessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev
10 years agoOh yes, the old roses grow and flower beautifully here. Very easy and low maintenance. My favorite rose of all in my garden in fact is the alba Felicite Parmentier. It's a bit early for her flowers this year however. She is leafing out and has buds, but I don't think the flowers will be open until late this month or early next month. I do have past years' flowers of her up on HMF. My gallicas aren't blooming yet, but Jenny Duval is leafed out and has lots of buds. Kraskoje Kawaskole is only partially leafed out. It's a new one for me, in the last couple years or so (own root, Eurodesert via Heirloom), and I don't remember when it started blooming last year. Later than Jenny D. though. Aimable Rouge is from Pickering and has barely started to wake up. My huge damask York and Lancaster always put on a spectacular show. No need to check for buds, when this roses' flowers open the whole garden is enveloped in heady perfume. Who cares if it only blooms once a year, that scent is divine. Madame William Paul is a lovely moss I've had for decades. Reliable bloomer (but only once) in partial shade. Extremely fragrant. Just beginning to flower now. I added another alba this year, Madame Plantier from Pickering and plan on getting more damasks, albas, and gallicas next year, but which ones........ I also want more eglantines, species, and rugosas, but I am running out of space. Ye olde pot ghetto is embarassingly large as it is.
Below is the first flower of the year on the moss Rene d'Anjou. Complete with resident spider! From PIckering and grafted on multiflora. RdA repeats very well and smells heavenly (as does Paul Ricault, minus the repeat).
Melissa
Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev
10 years agoThe damask moss Quatre Saisons Blanc Mousseux below with its first flower not only of this year but the first one I've gotten to see open ever. I bought this rose from Pickering about 2 years ago, and it has gotten plenty of buds, but every time when they are about to open something comes along and chomps them clean off, maddening! I was ready to go on the warpath if it happened again this year, so when I saw a flower actually open I decided to take a picture quickly. We'll see if the poaching varmint tries again this year--I now have a Jack Russell in residence, haha!
Melissa
portlandmysteryrose
10 years ago
ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
10 years ago
Sow_what? Southern California Inland
10 years ago
Dar Sunset Zone 18
10 years agoThose are gorgeous Melissa. I have Rose de Rescht and Pickering's Four Season Rose about to open. Will be posting pics when the flowers open up in a few days.
I was surprised to see RdR pushing up a sucker in just two years from a band size plant. The two varieties are afflicted in late summer with the so-called damask crud but those disfigured leaves are eventually hidden by newer ones in spring. They seem to grow just fine in the Pomona/Ontario area where I live, but just not as floriferous as HTs everyone else has in their front yards. I guess their seasonal flowering is part of their charm....
portlandmysteryrose
10 years agoffff
10 years agoThis has been a very strange year for me. Drought, followed by rains that didn't really start until March, has led to some odd blooming patterns. The Portlands and Damask Perpetuals are virtually all in bloom, some for over a month now. Gallicas have barely woken up yet, they were waiting for cold weather that never came.
Blooming today:
-Damasks-
Ispahan
-Damask Perpetuals/Portlands-
Autumn Damask
Pickering Four Seasons
Glendora
Duchesse de Rohan
Sydonie
Rose de Rescht
St Nicholas
Rose de Roi of commerce-Mosses-
Salet-Centifolias-
Gaspard Monge
Rose des Peintres-Albas-
ChlorisNot yet blooming
D Botzaris
D Celsiana
D Mme Hardy
D Petite Lisette
DP Duchess of Portland
DP Leda
M Communis
M Crested Moss
M Henri Martin
M Rene d'Anjou
C Fantin-Latour
A Alba suaveolens
A Celestial
A Felicite Parmentier
A Great Maiden's Blush
A Mme Plantier
G Agatha Incarnata
G Aimable Rouge
G Alika
G Complicata
G James Mason
G Tuscany Superb
G UmbraI'm a lousy photographer, so will leave it to one pic of Gaspard Monge.
Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elevOriginal Author