I am not quite finished, but in the meantime thought I would post a link to the island where "Ruth" lives so you can get an idea of the community, and the environment. I went by there on a ferry going to Haida Gwaii (formerly Queen Charlotte Islands) just a couple of weeks ago. Check it out, I'll be back as soon as possible. Also thank you Martin, I'm loving this book.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cortes Island, British Columbia

Well, regarding the supernatural, I just finished this book, came right to this thread and lo and behold in my previous post the word "environment" is now in highlighted green...and links to what looks like some kind of car ad. ??? Not sure because I slammed the cyber door on it so didnt watch the whole thing. Now Is this quantum physics, or has Nao's dad developed a new Mu-Mu program that turns harmless words into capitalist links?

This leads into Martin's second question. It worked for me...at least better than the magic realism of "One Thousand Pages of Solitude Agony" which is hardly fair because I think I read only 150 of them, and the book became a doorstop afterwards.
I've had dreams where I wake up and have to figure out what is real and what is actually dream material. And the whole Schroedinger cat and quantum physics....well, I know some very well educated and highly intelligent people who sort of understand this and get very excited talking about it. For me, its like how I feel about God; I believe there is something there but don't really feel it's necessary that I have to know exactly what it is, and anyway, it makes my head hurt and I probably would get it wrong anyway. I just hope to be pleasantly surprised when I die. So, as for the supernatural aspect of the book, I went with the flow and didn't find it too jarring. The book did not get thrown across the room.

Question 1: Hmm, at times I found Nao's story of bullying and torment bizarre and unbelievable but, then again, the internet and social media constantly horrify me with tales of peoples cruelty.. I've included a link below to the story of Amanda Todd who was bullied in a Canadian city nearby and committed suicide after posting a youtube in which she silently held up signs describing the bullying. We have had anti-bullying education in our schools for quite a while but the internet has brought a new and nastier intensity to bullying. (Some of you may have seen her video, if you have you won't ever forget it.) Nao's bullying seems particularly harsh and I kept wondering why the school never got involved but I have no idea how this would be dealt with in Japan. There are a number of things about the Japanese culture which I find fascinating but have trouble understanding.

I loved Ruth's story about the island, her descriptions of the forest, and her community because she is describing home to me. This is truly a beautiful part of the world and she paints an accurate portrait of one of the typical islands around here. Id live there myself if there were any jobs that would pay the bills :). I'm not sure about the number of wolves she describes, but cats and small dogs here are often eaten by coyotes and cougars coming down from the mountain. Its like a buffet for them, which is why my three cats are indoors only.
Zen has always been a mysterious three letter word so I did enjoy learning about it in this fashion.

Going to stop now, will...

The word "enironment" is no longer a green link. Eek! It's just like the diary... words/links appearing and disappearing...

Hmmmm. The disappearing link throws the magical elements of the book into a difference light, doesn't it? Fact...fiction...which is stranger...

I loved this book, particularly Nao's story. I found it very realistic and believable. And very hard to read in places. I didn't find the teacher's response (or lack of it) to be surprising. I believe that is widespread, no offense meant to anyone. Teachers have their own problems, their stresses, their own limitations. Children's parents often have no idea what is going on - it's not fair to expect the teachers to be omnipresent. This is not to excuse the teacher's behavior, which was deplorable! But notice how Nao herself bullied the other student. Did anyone else think she missed an opportunity to team up with someone and end some of the misery?

I love the bits and pieces that we get about life on an island. Although I don't live on an island myself, I live at the end of a peninsula in a small community (after 50 years in large cities) and recognize many of the characters. Also, there are many islands off the coast of Maine that are very like the one described, although on the opposite coast.

I really loved this book and am halfway through my second reading.

Hello - Thanks for this discussion as I enjoyed the Tale so much as well as the responses so far. As to your questions Martin: 1) I found both Nao's and Ruth's stories convincing. Ozeki, in MHO,has the voices down so well. 1) The dream sequences ( you call 'supernatural') in less capable hands are often a cop-out, but Ozeki handles them deftly , building the obsession Ruth has with the diary, I felt they worked as dreams.
The book has made me think about the juxtaposition of philosophy and science and Ozeki's appendices have made me do a bit of research into quantum mechanics and then realize that I don't have the background or the brain to even begin to understand it. But she has applied the basics to her story as I see it. For example: When the words disappear from Nao's diary- they still exist, but can't be observed without changing them. Where are they? (other worlds theory-Hugh Everett) When the cat (Pesto) disappears, like Schrodinger's cat, he still exists either alive or dead, but not observed -success--he's alive rather than dead. I guess unless one is a Zen Master this all seems to require that famous 'willing suspension of disbelief' but it's a thought provoking book and I look forward to more comments here about the many questions the book raises.

Perhaps oddly I found the words disappearing from the diary to be the strangest of the supernatural elements. I had no problem with a ghost appearing and talking to his great niece.

For some reason I strongly identified with Ruth and at least in my own mind I feel I would have acted as she did. I found her very likeable and sympathetic, although flawed. (The best protagonists are always flawed!)

Agree with Siobhan. I enjoyed Ruth's descriptions and often found myself smiling at them. At one time she described surfing on the internet and how time just seems to disappear when you are doing that...happens to me a lot. For example, I just spent a bit of time learning about goose barnacles because I have never seen them around here, and rarely find barnacles attached to anything plastic like a freezer bag. Found this interesting tidbit: "As they cannot leave their shells to mate, barnacles have the largest penis to body size ratio of the animal kingdom." I somehow doubt that the line 'He is hung like a barnacle!' is ever used in porn movies. Too bad.

Getting back to the freezer bag, did she ever definitively say that the tsunami was responsible for it washing up on shore? I'm guessing that Nao put everything in the freezer bag and placed it in the white box in the temple and the temple got washed away? It would be unusual for it to wash up on Cortes Island, just the way that the currents operate here. I liked Oliver a lot, especially for his factual contributions on currents and other natural phenomona which I found fascinating. That giant pool of plastic confetti swirling around the middle of the Pacific made me both ill and sad.

Another thing to make you ill. The feet in running shoes/sneakers did happen, I think five or six in the past few years. Quite gross. They matched DNA to some suicides and forensics explained to the horrified public (including me) that when the body decomposes in the water it falls apart in a way that it is perfectly natural to find the feet bones still together in the shoe. There is not an insane sailor on the loose, lopping off unsuspecting persons' feet and tossing them overboard.

As I said earlier, I was near Ruth's island a few weeks ago, and have included a picture of the misty forest where we hiked, its a Parks Canada area which means bascially no developement is allowed but they do build nice bridges over streams so you can cross :). There are cutthroat trout in that particular stream. Check out the moss, its incredibly deep and the trail itself is springy as its made up of years and years of spruce/hemlock and cedar needles. I once pushed a meter (yard) long stick down one part of the trail and it kept going down...Easy on the knees if you are runner. I just wanted to show you all what my and Ruth's rainforests look like.

Thank you for posting the picture, Janalyn. It's very beautiful and makes me wish I could go for a walk in that forest.

What I liked best in the book was the love between Nao and her great-grandmother and for her dad even when she was out of sympathy with him, as well as the love between Ruth and Oliver. I'm not much on the supernatural or magical realism in novels and sort of read through those parts to get on with the story, which I enjoyed, and I liked both Nao and Ruth. A comment I especially liked on the back of the book I read said, "The diary, Nao's only solace, is her cry for help to a reader she can only imagine." I, too, thought she had put her things in the temple that was washed away by the tsunami.

Thanks for the picture - it does look old. Sort of like I'd imagine the elven forest Mirkwood.

My own personal favourite character was Oliver; perhaps because I could relate to him - or at least, some of the things he said. I'm the sort of person who would say "Interesting about the crows...", rather than comment on the bullying; I'd be the sort - I WAS the sort - that would think it was nice that Nao had a friend in Babette, and not realize that Babette was basically just a pimp.

But I liked a lot of the minor characters - the guy who ran the dump; the couple who had the Japanese restaurant. They all seemed fleshed out to me.

The supernatural elements worked for me - though I was unhappy about the letters being put in the box - I thought for a while that Ruth had literally transferred them back, and lost them herself - which would have been a bit too circular for me..! (Or did she lose them? The only things we know she still had are the translations, which we read in the book).

Enough for the moment; I'm being called to food.

Yes, Carolyn, the relationships between characters was really well done. I enjoyed that too.

The minor characters seemed so well fleshed out I wondered if they were based on real people. It's unusual to find an author using her own name and her husband's in a "fiction" novel. It made me wonder just how much was autobiographical. I think a lot.

She spent a lot of time on the meaning of time, the "now" moment. Personally, I thought she spent a little too much time (no pun intended) on that theme but maybe I have missed something.. The title in itself, what is it referring to. Why is this so important, a tale for the time being. I'm sure there is something dark and deep that went over my head here.

You are welcome about the picture, the area was filled with interesting mushrooms too, best tasting are the chanterelles this time of year.

I'm slowly working my way through this and have to admit I seem to be making heavy weather of it; maybe because it is so far from my usual comfort zone. Books with teenagers as the main characters and any hint of magical realism usually have me running a mile. But I will persevere and come back when I have staggered to the end.

That looks like a place where mushroom would grow!

I looked up Ruth Ozeki and am surprised to find that she is indeed married to an environmental artist named Oliver. Since the relationship as depicted in the book is, while realistic, is not terribly flattering or complimentary, I am quite surprised. They must have a great relationship! Otherwise their marriage wouldn't withstand such things.

Yes - I think it's a remarkably brave thing to do. Including the bit where they had that fight. You have to wonder if that is a reflection of something that actually happened to them?

On the other hand, it's possible that the only thing that Ruth Ozeki and her husband Oliver have in common with the characters in the books is their names...? But if that were the case, then why use your own names? No - I bet it's pretty autobiographical.

Slight change of subject. Is it really possible that someone could have been - could be - bullied so badly at school as Nao is? Could a teacher REALLY be complicit in a "sending to Coventry" as he was? I don't know enough about Japan and Japanese schooling - but I do hope that was exaggerated... Janalyn, I know you referred to this - and yes, Nao was also cyber-bullied - but she was also physically tormented in a way that I can't really imagine. Is it really like that in Japan?

Come to that - do kids really pop pills for ADHD as a matter of course in California?

I think those were the only bits of the books I found unconvincing - I couldn't suspend my disbelief to enable it to happen. As I said - the incidents jarred for me.

But it's a small fault.

Ok Martin, I did some research on bullying in Japan. It's horrible and appears to be systemic. Read the info in the link below, written on June 12th of this year, by an American teacher (I'm assuming) working there. She tries to determine the how's and why's as well. Fascinating read.

Here is an excerpt:

Some examples are stomach-churning. One student was, over months, taunted, then beaten, then forced to shoplift items for the bullies, and eventually forced to eat dead bees. That student sparked a recent national outcry on bullying when he committed suicide at the age of 13. Teachers at the school were aware of the problem, but had only responded with a verbal warning.

One student came to class to find his desk had been transformed into a memorial, with a wreath and a picture of him in the center, incense lit and a condolence card filled with mocking messages from students and some teachers, including his 57-year-old homeroom teacher who was aware the student hadnâÂÂt died.

There was also a reference to a student who had over 50 cigarette burns on his arms. Unbelievable that this is tolerated the way it is....pack mentality.

Here is a link that might be useful: ON Being Bullied in Japan

The bullying was what I had the most trouble with. I know bullying, especially cyber bullying, has intensified over the years but the incidents in this book made me feel sick. It makes me wonder if the author is using the story to bring this problem to the forefront. I almost couldn't finish it and had to force myself to keep on and find out what happened to Nao.

I have not read this thread yet but will write my thoughts when I finish the book. I have started it, but set it aside to complete my Real Life book club book for our meeting on Tuesday. I look forward to joining the discussion, a bit late but with enthusiasm.

Rosefolly

What did I enjoy about this book?
Well, I managed to get through it, which is something and I quite enjoyed the descriptions of the BC coast/island life and the parts set in Jiko's Temple . . .but . . .

How can anyone enjoy a work so full of nastiness? The horrible life led at school by Nao (did anyone get the connection with the 'time' theme and her name pronounced Now?)
Perhaps I'm too old to enjoy American teenage slang "a bunch of fish" "a bunch of real estate" "a bunch of class mates" etc etc , or the attitudes of teenagers as a whole, but I do wonder why Nao was treated SO badly at school. Surely there was more to it than her having arrived from the US?
And I cannot see how a teacher could go along with or even take part in the bullying and cruelty. Here the authorities would have them out of the school so fast their feet wouldn't touch the ground.
The extreme events which took place in the toilets, the photos posted on Youtube, the rape, the prostitution I found quite revolting. And yes, I know these sort of things do go on but I don't think I should just accept them/skim over them to get on with the story.
The letters from Great Uncle Haruki, though interesting in describing the almost impossible life in the army of a quiet intellectual were again at the least unsettling. Did any of you take in the vivid descriptions of the torture carried out by the veteran soldiers who had taken part in the wars against China and what they did to the old men, women and babies?

What about all the guff on Schrodinger's Cat and quantum physics especially at the end? Was the writer trying to justify the strangeness/believability of her story? Was she covering her lack of a clear reasoning regarding the lunch box and its mixture of contents?
What about the Jungle Crow? What part in the 'plot' did it play besides appearing on treetops and cawing?
Was it just luck that so many people on Ruth's island had the competence to answer questions on ocean currents, the Japanese language, the French language, the life cycle of the barnacle and whatever it was that Callie and Muriel specialised in?
For me the cat, Pesto, was the most believable character, and I'm allergic to cats!
I'm sorry for being so negative and I realise that most people seem to feel that we must be positive about a book chosen for discussion, but I would be less than honest to myself if I didn't write as I found it . . . and I know Martin wont mind . . . well he might wipe away a manly tear but you know how it is with the English . . .

Always write as you "find it" Vee. It makes for a much more interesting discussion! :)

Yes, even Nao made much of her name being pronounced Now and how it related to the time theme.

Read the link I posted on bullying in Japan. Nao was an outsider who barely spoke Japanese after coming to that country from the states when she was a teenager. She had American customs and not Japanese ones, so of course whe would have stood out from the pack as a non-conformist. There is a racist remark that I have heard here where an Asian/American/Cdn who has lost his heritage is referred to as a banana, yellow on the outside and white on the inside, and that term is usually used by other Asians. That link explains why some teachers tolerated the bullying as a way to help the one picked on conform. Bizarre, I agree.

The Jungle Crow? He too was blown off course and ended up far from home, just like the freezer bag and its contents. We do get birds like that here, and then the birders and their cameras camp out in some poor persons backyard so they can see the exotic visitor and cross it off their lifelist of birds. But in the novel there was some sort of bafflegab symbolism going on there, I am sure.

Like I said earlier, I was in Ruth's area a little while ago and stayed on one of the islands. On a Friday night, they had what is called an 'open mic' and the villagers show up with musical instruments. Some brought tea, coffee, home made desserts and all were put on a table for everyone to share. At least 100 people showed up to listen. You just sign up if you want to display your musical talents or whatever and it goes in that order. Believe me, there were quite a few eccentric people, including a former US draft dodger who sorta twanged an electric guitar and then gave a stand up comedy routine which was, well, interesting. Some guy from Iran gave a speech on the human race, a native girl sang a song she wrote about bullying, a couple of guys had banjos and played some stuff they wrote. Lots of others, some were really good. Finding someone who speaks French is not hard at all, and there are plenty of Chinese and Japanese as well. The Japanese fisherman actually were an integral part of the fisheries during the 1920's to the 1950's. After Pearl Harbour many of them were gathered up and sent to internment camps, at least 145 of them from one cannery near Prince Rupert, causing the cannery to just about shut down.

People on the coast are often aware of currents, especially after the tsunami. I think that was Oliver's specialty, wasn't his brain wired for things like that? Where I was staying, a couple of retired people beachcombed as a hobby. The woman found a Japanese fishing boat washed up on shore and using the numbers, she researched it and determined its original owners and confirmed it was from the tsunami. She actually visited Japan and eventually visited the elderly owners who had lost everything (the fishing...

Martin asked about bullying etc.
My son is married to a Japanese girl who he met out there while he was teaching English . . . though what he knew about teaching and English could have been written on the back of a very small bus ticket. Anyway, he said he didn't know about schools but generally in Japanese clubs, especially sports/athletic/sumo clubs they have a very hierarchical system. The incoming students/people are treated very badly and are given the lowest jobs to do around the club (cleaning the locker rooms/toilets and so on), they are made to feel inferior and he said many coaches/trainers can physically bully them quite badly even leading now and again to death or suicide. This is meant as character building, so presumably though in extreme cases death is the result, the implication is that person was of very weak character.
In my own very limited experience . . . my son and d-in-l have a small daughter now just under three years. Lots of photos are taken by her Mother, but among the usual 'cute' ones there are the occasional ones of the child crying or obviously upset by something and in one case there is a pic. of an older and bigger boy really knocking her about which I find quite distressing. Had it been me I would not have reached for my camera but separated the children and tried at least to keep them apart. I can only assume this is some sort of 'cultural' thing and have never commented on it.
I have passed on my copy of the book to d-in-law and asked about the school bullying. Perhaps she will read it and/or reply.

Vee:-

How can anyone enjoy a work so full of nastiness?

I'll tell you here and now, I'm not going to try to answer that question. But I'm going to think about it; it's a very good question and perhaps expands outside this particular book.

I think you would get on very well indeed with my wife. She saw the film of Life of Pi and enjoyed it - so she read the book. She said it was horrible - such unpleasant things happened in it, and were so carefully described. She feels that she wants to read to enjoy things; she wants to read about nice things. To quote - "I think people just write things deliberately to shock and offend these days."

I agree with you - any teacher who even turned a blind eye(sp?) in the bullying that Nao went through would be sacked in this country - never mind actually joining in. It's a very strange culture to us. Janalyn - thank you for that post - very enlightening, albeit depressing.

Oh, and Vee - of course I don't mind that you didn't like it. I feel slightly guilty that you forced your way through it on my recommendation, that's all :)

Vee, while I am sorry you didn't like the book and I certainly don't want you to suffer, I am glad you read it and commented here because I really like hearing your opinion.

Maybe because I have worked in hospitals for a few years now, nothing to do with bullying and inhumanity surprises me. The number of people who are abused by others who are supposed to love them or take care of them is astonishing. While I found the descriptions of Nao's ordeal horrible, I didn't find them surprising. And I love the fact that her father finally woke up and did something - something huge - and we learned more about him. And I like the enigmatic ending - there are very few things in life that are all neatly tied up.

While I hope that a teacher who turned a blind eye to bullying and even participated in it would be thoroughly disciplined and instructed to find a new career, I know the reality is that many things like this happen all of the time. I don't know why this is so - I am sure I could read many books on the subject, but I know it exists.

The character of Nao seemed very, very real to me. This was one of those books that really got under my skin and I found myself thinking about it a lot. I had to remind myself that it is just a novel and these people don't really exist and I don't have to worry about them.

I have just decided not to read the book after all, with my apologies to all of you. I have picked it up at least half a dozen times and I've never been able to read more than a few pages. I am simply not engaging with the characters or the storyline at all. Now that I've gone back and read this thread, I think I made a good decision. I'm sure it is a fine book, but alas, not the right book for this reader.

Rosefolly

Just bringing this up to ask if there are any other thoughts or comments?

Hi everyone

The most strange coincidence happened to my wife. Her copy of 'A tale for the time being' followed us across the sea. She has written about it in our sailing blog here

Here is a link that might be useful: Carina of Devon

What a great story in a story! I loved this book, I have read it three times.