One book on my bookshelf that makes me smile every time I look at it is "The Years With Ross", by James Thurber. It is a biography of Harold Ross, the man who founded the New Yorker magazine and was its editor from 1925 to 1951. On the inside flap of the dust jacket is a warning to Thurber from Wolcott Gibbs (another writer, humorist and later editor of the New Yorker) that says, "If you get Ross down on paper, nobody will believe it." He's right!

I had been reading the book in my office on my lunch hour at work, feeling free to laugh out loud at the stories in the book because NOBODY stayed at the office during lunch. And I was definitely laughing - with wheezing and knee slapping - when a patient walked in, quite early, for an appointment. I did my very best to gather my wits and appear professional, but it was a tough go. I decided the book was too funny to risk bringing to work after that.

"The Years With Ross" was written in 1957 - No one I know has ever mentioned reading it except the dear friend who gave it to me as a gift in 1983.

Fun topic! I am chosing books that are not only under-rated but little known:

>Daughter of Confucius: a personal history by Wong Su-Ling and Herbert Cressy copyright, 1952.

Its her story of her life in a nobel family in China pre and post revolution. I was spell bound by the writing and think anyone with an interest in the country (or who love Amy Tan and can't get enough) would love this book. I found it in a second hand store. I have no idea how easy it is to get

The World I Made for Her by Thomas Moran.

I read this for an online book group and was blown away by its power. In this well written book, the narrator talks and dreams about the love he has for his nurse as he is dying. Its a sad book, but in many ways hopeful. Its one that certainly deserves more mention.

Sinai Tapestry by Edward Whittemore.

This was on someone else's list of under rated books and I am so glad I found it. Its the first in a four volumn series, about a monk who discovers the world's oldest bible and on reading it finds that it denies every religious truth ever held. So he writes his onw and buries it in Jerusalem. This sets into motion an epic adventure that lasts for a century. Wonderful witty writing, and a book that reminded me just why so many people love Jerusalem.

Night of the Avenging Blowfish: a novel of covert operations, love and luncheon meat by John Welter

This is as hard to explain as its title. Suffice to say a great deal of it takes place in DC, and it is one of the funniest satires on public life I'd read in a long time.

Knowledge of Angels Jill Payton Walsh

This English author writes a fable about a man washed upon the shore of an inquisition like state after a shipwreck. He is arrested and tells his story to his inquisitioners who want to convert him in any way possible...Some fascinating discussion between the man and the main priest

Shaman Noah Gordon

A coming of age story during the Civil War, about a boy who's father is very close to the local indian tribe. Author also wrote The Rabbi, as well as the sequel to this, The Physician. He also wrote Jerusalem Diamond which is also quite wonderful

Lamb in His Bosom by Caroline Miller

1934 Pulitzer Prize Winner, was sited by Martha Mitchell as a major influence to write Gone with the Wind. Same time period, but with a Georgia farm family just getting by.

Versailles by Kathryn Davis

A beautifully written small novel about Maria Antionette. It verves from reality to dreams to history and crosses time, but you always seem to know where you are.

Observatory Mansions by Edward Carey

I do wish this author would hurry up and write another book. This one focuses on an old run down house which takes in various boarders. Its about them, its about the house, and the stranger who comes in and changes their lives. He also wrote Alva and Irva, about two giant sisters who spend their time working on a model of the world

And...

Funny old world - there was an article this weekend in the Observer which asked lots of famous writers to list their favourite underrated novel.

I'm going to be boring and mention one by Paul Gallico - Coronation. It was written in the mid-sixties, but is set in 1952; it is the story of a working-class family who decide to give up their annual summer holiday, and instead go to London to see the Coronation of the new Queen Elizabeth II. It's a little sentimental, like so much of Gallico, but it's a lovely read.

Here is a link that might be useful: How did we miss these?

Wow cindy, I'm agreeing with you! Knowledge of Angels is a wonderful story and I'm sure would appeal to many RP'ers so all of you go out now and order a copy.
How about Not Wanted on the Voyage by Timothy Findley. A quite grim and unusual look at the story of Noah's Ark

I'm sure I should be able to think of plenty more.

Here is a link that might be useful: Knowledge of Angels

Not Wanted on the Voyage would be interesting to read along with The Preservationist. The latter, while disturbing in parts, has a much more hopeful take. But I could not put down Finney's book no matter how many times I had to cover my eyes.

veer, have you read more of Paton-Walsh? I have Serpentine Cave, Desert in Bohemia, and Emperor's Winding Sheet (a YA but very adult in many ways). All were wonderful (tho I think Desert in Bohemia is my fav just because she takes us far from her native land, and writes about my grandparents country as if she was born there)

Ok before I go off for work, one paperback

A Fine and Private Place by Peter Beagle

Another find in a second hand store, it got me hooked on all of his books. This one is a very gentle story - about a man who lives in a cemetary, and the woman who meets there. Its a story full of life and hope, well written, and doesn't have a drop of twee.

>Funny old world - there was an article this weekend in the Observer which asked lots of famous writers to list their favourite underrated novel.

I saw that article. It should be available if you google for it. I didn't read through all of it, though.

I suppose any novel you like that critics or others don't particularly warm up to would be considered underrated. However, I think the better wording would be books that deserve a wider audience or have been forgotten. That's really the territory that gets covered by underrated book discussions.

Okay... stupid me (again). Martin provided the link. That's the article.

Cindy, I've read Goldengrove Unleaving by Paton Walsh. I liked the "Goldengrove" part quite well but the "Unleaving" part wasn't as good, in my opinion. I think they were originally published as two separate books. We used to have a poster here originally from Cornwall who was a big fan of Paton Walsh, and that's how I got interested in her.

About Versailles by Kathryn Davis: This is one peculiar way to tell Marie Antoinette's story. It's creative, but it didn't work for me.
I suppose any novel you like that critics or others don't particularly warm up to would be considered underrated.Georgia, that's what I suspect, too. I've read oodles of books that I thought were pretty good -- or even outstanding -- but when I learned that most other readers didn't think so, I've often been baffled. And vice versa: there's a whole lot of books that are mentioned and praised so often that I'm duped into reading 'em, only to find that I don't think they are so special.

Cindy, I've never read any other Paton Walsh.

Frieda "Goldengrove Unleaving" struck a tiny chord somewhere deep in my remaining brain cells and when I checked it I found it was part of a Gerard Manley Hopkins' poem . . . we had to study GMH for A level English; a difficult and not entirely enjoyable task . . . but he had been a priest and was probably considered 'good for us'.
I wonder if the poem and the PW's novel/s have some linking theme?

Gerard Manley Hopkins (1844-1889)

Spring and Fall:

to a Young Child

Margaret, are you grieving
Over Goldengrove unleaving?
Leaves, like the things of man, you
With your fresh thoughts care for, can you?
Ah! as the heart grows older
It will come to such sights colder
By and by, nor spare a sigh
Though worlds of wanwood leafmeal lie;
And yet you will weep and know why.
Now no matter, child, the name:
Sorrow's springs are the same.
Nor mouth had, no nor mind, expressed
What héart héard of, ghóst guéssed:
It is the blight man was born for,
It is Margaret you mourn for.

Here are some favorites of mine I never or seldom see mentioned at RP:

"The Finishing School" by Gail Godwin
"Pan" by Knut Hamsun (a love story in the far north of Norway)
"Too Late the Phalarope" by Alan Paton (Apartheid in South Africa)
"The Wanderer" by Alain Fournier (a classic coming of age novel from rural France)
"Narcisse and Goldmund" by Herman Hesse

Just to name a few!)

As for Gerald Manley Hopkins -- the poem of his above is one of my all-time favorites. I have loved for many years the haunting musicality of his work!

Frieda, Sironya, Texas? (We think we are the only people who ever read this.)

>We agree!

Hey, I am a long time Anglophile, and you live there. It was bound to happen some time :)

>I think they were originally published as two separate books

They were. I tried reading them and they just didn't take. I felt that they were more YA - yet I loved Emperor's Winding Sheet, about a young boy who finds himself in the Persian Court.

Oh, Serpentine Cave takes place in Cornwall, and I remember reliving my visit there as I was reading the book.

>I suppose any novel you like that critics or others don't particularly warm up to would be considered underrated.

My take is different; when I think of underrated, I think more of lesser known books, even ones that critics liked, that for some reason were not well liked by the general public. At least thats what I am looking for her.

>The Finishing School

One of my fav Godwins. My fav is another underrated book - The Good Husband. About death and dying, about love and relationships, with a very spirited, no nonsense and unique main character dying of cancer. I cried when I first read it, and its one of the few that I reread immediately afterwards.

Oh Thyrkas, I know and love The Years With Ross. Read it years ago. I love Thurber and everything to do with him.

Dido

Dido - What fun to know that this Thurber book is loved by another! I had to get it off the shelf to copy the quote from Gibbs, and of course, started thumbing through the book - only to find myself giggling helplessly in a matter of minutes.

I have sometimes wondered what it might have been like to work at the New Yorker at a desk between E.B. White and James Thurber, under the editorship of Harold Ross. What an education that would have been.

Vee, J. Paton Walsh's two interconnected stories were inspired by the G. M. Hopkins poem. If I remember correctly, the house in Cornwall was named Goldengrove. But I can't recall if the young main character's name was Margaret. I wish I had the book at hand so I could check. I think it was Mary or Dido (or maybe Jankin) who introduced me to the poem. Its poignancy instantly appealed to me -- and the oddness of some of the phrasing -- (wanwood leafmeal). But, like Mary describes, its the musicality -- the rhythm -- that pleases me most.

Carolyn: You, I, and my mother are the only people I know who have read it. I can't imagine why it seems to be obscure because it's so gosh-darn good. Here's the first line that still tickles me:
Had Marshall Lipscomb suspected Bill Elliott's real purpose, he would not now be bathing to go out into the chill November of 1900 dusk.

Mary, I still have to mentally adjust to the title The Wanderer. For the longest time I didn't realize that it was the English title for Le Grand Meaulnes.

Cindy, do you find, though, that many readers and forum participants are resistant to trying or discussing lesser-known books, or books that are more than about ten years old (unless they are certifiable classics)? So many readers seem interested only in what is fairly new and buzzworthy. We have a mutual friend in another forum who seems to always be the first to hear about or read the new books. I couldn't keep up with her if I tried -- which I have no desire to do, anyway, because I figure if a book is really all that good, it will last more than ten years and I don't have to be in an all-fired hurry to read it. Yet, I'm aware, too, that there are some books that will be eclipsed by the superhyped, and they might just slip into oblivion, publishing-wise, or, more likely, because of my and many other readers' human affliction: forgetfulness. That's why I love threads like this one: to remind us of all the good stuff that deserves to be remembered or given a second chance. Now, if I can just think of some of those...

>do you find, though, that many readers and forum participants are resistant to trying or discussing lesser-known books, or books that are more than about ten years old

I am not sure if they are resistant, or just not informed of whats out there. Before online forums, I got my reads via word of mouth, NY Times and other reviews, and summaries from libraries. I'd look for certain authors I'd already read, or hit the sci fi shelves. Sometimes a non fiction read would get me excited about a topic and I'd read a fiction that I never would have read; but more often than not my reading was pretty mainstream. I rarely found those rare, underrated reads not coz I ignored them, but I didn't know they were out there. I think many people still get their reads from these places, as well as book groups that subscribe to BookSense, which usually has a list of books with a handy dandy readers guide published with them (don't get me started on those). In the groups I have been in, I think they have all discussed the same ten books....

Then came the net, and online forums, and Amazon. Oh my god. With people from all walks of life, with all sorts of interests, posting about books they love, I couldn't help but be pulled in to a new world of little known and underrated books. In the last 7 years of online book groups, my reading has not only grown by leaps and bounds, but what I read has become much more eclectic and varied. The list of underrated books and authors I have discover would fill a volume. Its exciting and great fun to find these gems and I know I'd never have happened upon them without the power of the net. Oh and btw, our mutual friend, tho I often do not like the books she reads, has introduced me to many of those underrated books, so there is that.. .:)

People go to new books because thats what they see and know. And some times those new books are pretty darn good, so I have no complaints. I just know that for every new one I read, I itch to read something totally different, rare and underrated. And with threads like this we can spread the joy!

Thyrkas, I too loved The Years with Ross. I read everything I can find about the New Yorker and its characters, especially E.B. and Katherine White.

Another lover of G.M. Hopkins here too.

My unknown favorites are Bryher's short, spare historical novels, especially Ruan, The Fourteenth of October (Battle of Hastings), and This January Tale (the aftermath). I can't recommend them enough. Another is Eagle in the Snow by Wallace Breem. I can't get it out of my mind.

Cindy, I loved "The Good Husband", too, by Godwin.

Two others I've not seen mentioned at this forum are favorites:
"The Sheltering Sky" by Paul Bowles (an English trio in the Middle East) and
"Anabasis" by Ellen Gilchrist (fictitious heroine in ancient Greece).

Just a comment: I never see author William Styron, recently deceased author, mentioned here. He became first known for his roman a clef about Newport News, "Lie Down in Darkness." Then came "Sophie's Choice" and "Confessions of Nat Turner". But he wrote a little jewel of a tome called "A Tidewater Morning", which I think many who do not live in Virginia have missed knowing....

I will look for the Styron book as he is a favorite author of mine and I haven't read that one.

Thoughts While Tending Sheep by W.G. Ilefeldt has a conspicuous place on my shelves and I often pick it up and read a page or two. It is an unusual memoir written by an unusual and eclectic individual. My husband just read it during vacation at my urging, and enjoyed it greatly. It was published in 1988 - yikes, that is 19 years ago!

In the groups I have been in, I think they have all discussed the same ten books....Ha! That's so true of my experience as well. They all copy each other, it seems.
our mutual friend, tho I often do not like the books she reads, has introduced me to many of those underrated books...Oh yes, same with me. She's uncanny in her predictions of what will catch fire and what won't with general readers.

Here are a couple of books that I've been surprised that more people don't seem to have read: The Uninvited by Dorothy Macardle -- a really good ghost story, much better than the film adaptation of it
The Vines of Yarrabee by Dorothy Eden
This historical novel was rather a change of pace for Eden, who was probably better known for romantic suspense. There's some romance in the story, but it's decidedly not the frou-frou kind. Eugenia Litchfield agrees to marry a man whose ambitions lie in establishing viticulture in the Parramatta District of New South Wales in the 1820s. Gilbert Massingham charges his bride-to-be with bringing out to Australia the vines from France he wants for his vineyards. So she does, along with her trousseau and furniture for the fine house Gilbert has built. They are married right after Eugenia lands, and the rest of the story is about that marriage and Eugenia's adjustments to Gilbert, his life's calling, and the new country that is so different from her England.

I have never figured out why The Thorn Birds became THE Australian romantic novel to read when I've always thought The Vines of Yarrabee was much better written and more interesting. The only thing I can think of is the latter has no illicit priestly love affair -- something that apparently has a strong titillation factor.

Frieda, I'm ashamed to say that I have never even heard of The Vines of Yarrabee. Maybe because it's about vineyards in New South Wales! *g*

The only Styron I read was Sophie's Choice which haunted me so that I couldn't see the movie. I've not thought of reading anything else by him. I'll check out Tidewater Morning.

Thorn Birds was such a delicious read when I was in HS. I don't think any of my friends even thought of it as a book about Australia; we were more interested in the soap opera!

I enjoy reading books about reading, and a few that I have include lists of underrated and little known reads. Noel Perrin "Readers Delight" is fun for the treasure hunt aspect of it, esp before the net (had a blast finding several of the oop books in bookstores as I was traveling). Michael Dirda's Readings is another, tho his book also discusses various aspects of reading and books. Finally, The King's English is a book by the owner of The King's English in Salt Lake City, a fav spot for many readers when I lived there, and still is. The book is about her experiences as a bookseller, and she intersperses her comments with lists galore!

Gosh, veer and laceyvail, I must go find a book of poetry by G.M. Hopkins. Any suggestions?

"Spring and Fall - To a Young Child" is marvelous. It makes me think of John Donne's "For Whom the Bell Tolls".

Cindy, I've enjoyed many of Noel Perrin's recommendations in Reader's Delight. My favorites are Period Piece by Gwen Raverat, Charles Darwin's granddaughter, and Mr. Dimock Explores the Mysteries of the East: Journeys in India by Edward C. Dimock Jr. Have you read either of those?

Gosh, I miss the Common Reader catalogue. They could always be counted on to have lesser-known and underrated books. That's where I finally got all the Lillian Beckwith books (starting with The Hills Is Lonely) and No Bed for Bacon by Caryl Brahms and S.J. Simon, which I first read when I was kid but couldn't find again for years. When I saw the film "Shakespeare in Love" all kinds of bells and whistles went off. I read all the credits because I just had to know the name of the book it was adapted from, but they never credited it! A few months later I opened the Common Reader catalogue and there it was.

Re No Bed for Bacon Ned Sherrin (well-known UK producer, radio quiz/arts show presenter, huge ego etc ) together with Caryl Brahms and Malcolm Williamson turned this into a musical in the early 60's; but it flopped.
Strange that people such as Tom Stoppard claimed never to have heard of the book when S-in-Love was being written!

Frieda, I suppose I should look back to the thread where you asked for recommendations for books about English rural life, but the books by A G Street fall into this category and I think you (and many others) would enjoy them. I have a battered copy of Farmer's Glory beautifully illustrated with small woodcuts by Gwen Raverat. It is a biography in all but (his) name and describes the terrible hardship in farming in his native Wiltshire and during the time he spent in Manitoba. I remember listening to his radio talks in the 60's.
Not easy to find links about him so the one below is from Wikipedia, which I don't much like using.

thyrkas, I find Hopkins work very difficult. He was a tortured and consumptive soul who spent years training to become a Jesuit priest in a dank seminary in North Wales. He tried to get back to the ancient Anglo Saxon 'sprung rhythms' of early poetry. For me his shorter works are much more easily understood than his long stuff ie Wreck of the Deutschland about a ship that founders in the North Sea with the loss of many lives . . . although the poem is about a group of nuns that perished. We had to study in in great depth at school and none of us enjoyed it (including the teacher).

Here is a link that might be useful: Books by A G Street

I'm no expert on poetry, but I rather like the little Hopkins I've read. I studied a few of his poems for O-level, including the one above. I haven't read it since then (about thirty-five years ago) but it jumped back at me immediately.

Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but this is my favourite Hopkins.
Felix Randal

Felix Randal the farrier, O he is dead then? my duty all ended,
Who have watched his mould of man, big-boned and hardy-handsome
Pining, pining, till time when reason rambled in it and some
Fatal four disorders, fleshed there, all contended?

Sickness broke him. Impatient he cursed at first, but mended
Being anointed and all; though a heavenlier heart began some
Months earlier, since I had our sweet reprieve and ransom
Tendered to him. Ah well, God rest him all road ever he offended!

This seeing the sick endears them to us, us too it endears.
My tongue had taught thee comfort, touch had quenched thy tears,
Thy tears that touched my heart, child, Felix, poor Felix Randal;

How far from then forethought of, all thy more boisterous years,
When thou at the random grim forge, powerful amidst peers,
Didst fettle for the great grey drayhorse his bright and battering sandal!

G.M. Hopkins will always be one of my favorite poets. Here's another:

PIED BEAUTY

Glory be to God for dappled things,
For skies of couple-colour as a brindle cow;
For rose-moles all in stipple upon trout that swim;
Fresh firecoal chestnut-falls; finches' wings.
Landscape plotted and pieced-fold, fallow and plough;
And all trades, their gear and tackle and trim.
All things counter, original, spare, strange;
Whatever is fickle, freckled (who knows how?)
With swift, slow; sweet, sour; adazzle, dim;
He fathers-forth whose beauty is past change: Praise Him.

>No Bed for Bacon Ned Sherrin

Oh wow. I had no idea. Did they have anything to do with the screenplay? I must read it.

>Gosh, I miss the Common Reader catalogue.

Oh yes. Thats another source I used to depend on. I found many fav authors and interesting books through there - in fact my love of Eliz Von Arnim started by purchasing Christopher and Columbus from them.

Re the Perrin book: books I found: Valley of the Assassins by Freya Stark; The JOurnal of a Disappointed Man by WNP Barbellion; When the snow comes they will take you away by Eric Newby; and the one about the hobos and the train. I don't know those two that you liked. Just going through it to find those titles made me realize how much I need go through it again to see what I didn't catch before, or books that weren't available pre-net and are now.

Two more underrated:

Louisiana Power and LIght by John Dufresne. Its not about electricity. A southern writer with a very southern way of telling tales (think shaggy dog stories), this book brought me fits of hysterical laughter and yet often moved me. I now have all of his books.

Semi-Attached Couple and the SEmi Detached House by Emily Eden. This was one of those used bookstore finds; I read the back cover and knew I had to try this.

The author was born in 1792, so this book was written in the 1800s. Both stories are hilarious takes on the social mores of the time, as well as marriage and relationships in general. She has been compared to Jane Austen, and in this case I think rightly so.

I wish I had the Perrin book handy so I could check which others I've acquired. I think one is Bridgeport Bus by Maureen Howard, which I liked well enough though I wasn't as taken as he was -- if indeed it was he; would you check for me, please, if you have the Perrin nearby (I'm away from home for a few weeks). Another one might be Crossing the Line by Alvin B. Kernan.Louisiana Power and LIght by John Dufresne. Its not about electricity.Well, there is the character who wanted to be Reddy Kilowatt. I hadn't seen that illustration in years, but it instantly jumped into my mind when I read the name. The characters were just a bit too quirky and stereotypical for my taste, but I was living in St. Tammany Parish when Edwin Edwards was governor so the satire ain't nothing compared to the real thing. I'm not as familiar with the northern end of the state, though. Somehow or 'nother, the humor about Louisiana -- as well as much of the South -- is too often exaggerated to be sustainably funny, in my opinion. I was thinking about the Ya-Ya business just the other day.

Vee, A G Street certainly seems to have been prolific. Farmer's Glory sounds interesting, doubly so, because it's about England and Manitoba. I have a thing about plains & prairie farming stories (nostalgic, I suppose), but the recent fiction I've read with those settings has displeased or disappointed me. That reminds me of the autobiographical stories by Max Braithwaite, set in Saskatchewan of the 1930s: The Night We Stole the Mountie's Car, Never Sleep Three in a Bed and Why Shoot the Teacher? The times were awful but the stories are gentle and humorous, written in a good-natured way that seems too old-fashioned and sentimental for the jaded cynicism of today...and I think that's probably why I like them so much.

frieda, I found the Howard, couldn't find the Kernan tho. While I was looking I saw another unknown that I loved: The Green Child by Henry Read (1948) I actually read this years before I picked up Perrin, in a HS AP English class when we were studian Utopian literature. Wonderfully imagined book about two seemingly alien children who are found in England. The book is based on events that supposedly happened in the 1800s when the hollow earth theory was all the rage. Turns out they live in the middle of the earth. After the boy dies the narrator goes with the girl to her home. He finds a land filled with crystal, with a culture totally different than anything on earth. Haven't read it since HS but I know its been on my fantasy book fav list since then.

>Reddy Kilowatt

Ha! Forgotten about that. Thing with writers like Dufresne and TR Pearson is that my attraction is their ability to tell stories. I well understand that both use characters that can be seen as being stereotypical, and if I was from the south I'd not be happy with it. But I also saw these characters actually more complex than the usual Ya Ya books (which I hated btw. Couldn't understand what the big deal was about these mothers who abused their children and drank all day) But I do see your point.

Wizard of the Pigeons by Meegan Lindholm is another fantasy book that I have long loved. It was given to me by a boyfriend at the time who was from Seattle (where the book takes place), and I've never known another person who has read it. Pity. Its about a 'wizard' in downtown Seattle and his kingdom. But its not what you think. There is a twist at the ending that really through me, so I had to re read it, and saw the entire story in a very different light.

Oh, while looking for the author of above book, I found a really cool site that you guys might apprecieate:

Here is a link that might be useful: Lost Books Archive

Looking through that site, its pretty much about Speculative Fiction (a brand of Sci Fi), and doesn't look very active. But if you go to the Guest Reviews you will see a large list of books - many underrated or little known - that have been reviewed.

That Dorothy Eden book sounds very familiar, but I have such a hard time remembering books I read in my youth. I know I read several of hers, though.

Laceyvail, glad to see your recommendation for Breem's book. It's been on my wish list. Perhaps I should move it into my order queue.

I have that Herbert Read book. Found it a little dry. One of those books you must be in the mood for to appreciate. I think it was also inspired by Plato's allegory of the cave (now... how many of you had to read that over and over in college - I know I did!). Along those lines, is WH Hudson's A Crystal Age which examines a very interesting matriarchal-based utopia with a bitter twist to it.

Thanks, Cindy, for looking those up for me. Now I'm anxious to reread Perrin's book to remind me of his other recommendations. I've read similar books by Eric Burns and Colin Wilson, as well as the Dirda you mentioned above. I like that sort better than the usual unembellished lists -- those try to be too all encompassing and are geared more toward the most popular -- dare I say, book-club-type -- stuff.

Ahh, the mention of W.H. Hudson: I have a very low affinity for fantasy, but his Green Mansions, the love story of a naturalist and a bird girl named Rima, has been a favorite since I was a kid. It probably helped that I read it young before my taste congealed. I don't see it mentioned very often, but surely it is considered a classic.

Cindy, the "Out of Print, Out of Mind" title they considered for their web site seems particularly apropos. I think I could remember that better than "Lost Books," which seems generic. However, so many books that were once out of print have now been resurrected.

I've told this story so many times that I've probably told it here, so forgive me if you've read it before. But...

When I was in high school, two years running (sophomore and junior years) my English and history teachers were dystopia obsessed, but they obviously didn't coordinate their lesson plans because I wound up assigned 1984 and Brave New World for three different classes. That was the beginning of my particular loathing of those popular books (the popularity hasn't abated either, apparently). But there was another book assigned for the same "dystopiathon" that I actually liked. It was about a fellow who went underground (in a network of caves, or something) in search of his lost father or uncle. In this underground place was a colonial remnant of the Roman Empire that had lived there since the empire dissolved, and they had developed a particularly nasty form of government. Does it ring any bells with you?

frieda thats too bad, but I'm not surprised. I hear about that lack of coordination all of the time, insuring that every HSer will be reading To Kill a Mockingbird for three years. Talk about turning people off to reading. I really loved this class - aside from the fact that it was AP which meant I got to read the books in the cage behind the librarians desk (yes boys and girls, censorship was alive and well in the 70s). It meant that I got exposed to books that I wouldn't have found in my non sci fi household. Probably the class that whetted my appetite for all things fantasy/sci fi for many many years.

>I've read similar books by Eric Burns and Colin Wilson,

Mmm, don't know those. What I like about these books is that their lists are in context with the discussion the author is having. You understand why certain books were chosen, and the books chosen are usually not in the mainstream. I'll have to take a look at those. Another one btw is by Thomas Costain (one of my fav non fiction writers) called Read With Me. Copyright is 1965 so you can imagine there are some gems here that no one has heard of (and darn it now I have to reread that one too...)

As to the book you mention - my DH is a fan of alternative history books, esp about the Roman Empire. He can't remember that plot, but he does recall one by David Weber about a group of aliens that come to kidnap a legion to help them fight a war. But thats all he can come up with, sorry.

Wow, this is funny. Upthread laceyvail mentioned Bryher. In Noel Perrin's collection of underrated books, The Roman Wall is listed. With his description and the mention above, how can I not read it! Its meant to be!

Most of Rumer Godden's novels - particularly my favourite
(to return to Hopkins) 'Kingfisher's Catch Fire' (also my favourite of his poems.) The mother in the novel (cries) 'Whát I do is me: for that I came' when she moves her family to the foothills of the Himalayas.

AS kingfishers catch fire, dragonflies dráw fláme;
As tumbled over rim in roundy wells
Stones ring; like each tucked string tells, each hung bellÂs
Bow swung finds tongue to fling out broad its name;
Each mortal thing does one thing and the same: 5
Deals out that being indoors each one dwells;
SelvesÂgoes itself; myself it speaks and spells,
Crying Whát I do is me: for that I came.

jankin -Because of suggestions on this forum, I read Rumer Godden for the first time this summer. None of her other books was easily available, so I read "Kingfishers Catch Fire", which I thouroughly enjoyed. I tried to find the reason for the title somehwere within the book, but couldn't discover it. Thanks very much for the poem, which explains it all.

Some more under-rated books from my paperbacks:

>Morality Play by Barry Unsworth

I love this authors works but they are usually door stoppers. This one is a rather slight novel, but very powerful, about a deaf girl in the middle ages falsely accused of theft. A visiting theatre troup arrives as the girl has been convicted, and the director of the group decides to make his own investigation, and falling in love with the girl at the same time. The director also weaves his new information into his performances, making a real to life serial of sorts.

Johnny Got His Gun by Dalton Trumbo

An anti war book that was banned during the 50s, one of the most powerful books I have ever read. The narrator has been severally injured in WWI. He has no limbs and no face. Completely bandaged up, he thinks his story as he is cared for. I remember closing this book and sitting for a long time deep in thought. Incredible read.

The Wicked Pavillion by Dawn Powell

Someone elseforum got me hooked on this author. She wrote in the forties; she has a wicked sense of humor and an interesting way of looking at the world. In this book she takes on the world of art at the time in NYC. Any of her books are good, but this one was the first I'd read.

>The Confessions of Max Tivoli by Sean Greer

Odd little book that I ended up liking. Born with the physical appearance of an elderly man, Max grows older mentally but his body apppears to age backwards, which is a blessing in disguise as he is able to fall in love with the same woman three times...its time travel of sorts, and a fascinating look at time and love

>Snobs Julian Fellowes

The folk on the other side of the pond probably are more familiar with this one than the yanks. Hilarious take on high society. Great beach read.