Rosefolly,

My trilogy is all bound together. Could you refresh my memory and tell me approx. what part of which of the novels this event was described? I will go back and re-read it. Just now, I only seem to recall that these two were Pariahs in the Vale community, as Aashild has dabbled in Witchcraft, healing with herbs, etc. which could be rather suspect in those times. Thus, I had the feeling they were rather cut off from the rest of their society. Perhaps this was the inevitable response to aging and isolation and past shame?

Woodnymph, it happened in the second volume. It surprised me because under the beneficial halo of Lavrans's gratitude, Aashild had become less isolated in the community, and had gained an uneasy acceptance.

Sorry not to pinpoint it better. We have a lot going on at our house right now, and it will be some days until I can get back to the books.

Another quick point, I was astonished to realize how small the population was in those days. In the forward I read that good sized towns were only a few thousand residents. I found myself wondering if the entire country had as many people as my town (50,000)! No wonder everyone seems to know everyone, at least by reputation.

Rosefolly

Regarding Sir Bjorn killing himself and Aashvild, my impression was that it was the scandal of Elise's death and the shame of their involvement that pushed them to that point, and that the deaths were mutally agreed upon. Now, my book was a library book long returned so I can't go back and reread this part either; am looking forward to someone with their own copy revewing this issue.

My impression has always been that Sir Bjorn had come to deeply regret running off with Aashild and had come to even hate her. He is always described as being very unpleasant to look at (though he had been a very handsome man) and with an unpleasant personality as well. Perhaps the role he played in Eline's murder cover up was part of the reason why he killed her and himself, but I always thought it was just the final straw.

I don't think it was a mutual murder/suicide pact.

That was my impression, too (that Bjorn regretted running off with Aashild). Bitterness seemed to have seeped into every facet of his life, and my impression was that it was the slow accretion of regret and bitterness over time that finally led to the murder/suicide. I thought it took place years after the Eline incident, though. Kristin and Erlend were married and at Husaby when it happened (I thought) and we are given spare details about it. I imagined Sir Bjorn just waking up one day and deciding he couldn't live with himself or Aashild anymore.

Okay, that makes sense to me, Georgia Peach. It was clear that he was not a happy man, and that Aashild, too, regretted her choice. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing anything.

No one gets away with anything in this book, do they? Not sin, not error, not folly. The forward in the last volume mentions that Undset agreed with the medieval belief that happiness was to be found in the next world, not this, and her book clearly reflects this.

As an aside, I have been reading this through the final days of my MIL's long illness, and yesterday she died. This personal backdrop has made an already somber book even darker. I will finish the last half of the last book, but I think I'll set it aside for a few days. Her life, while filled with difficulties, was also filled with much joy. Attitudes toward life have certainly changed since the Middle Ages.

Rosefolly, my sympathy on your loss. Yes, the novel is permeated with the medieval ideas re sin and guilt and penance. It does lend a dark quality to the general atmosphere. Even the labeling of Kristin's first son as "The fruit of sin" (the chapter heading in my book).And the fact that she so feared giving birth to a malformed child and looked on his birthmark as a bad sign. Yet Lavrans is placed as a counterpoint to emphacize unconditional love and the Christian idea of "Grace", in my opinion.

I look forward to your commentary when you return....

I suppose no one else will post on this thread, so time to let it die a graceful death. I enjoyed our discussion very much and thank all here who made such insightful contributions. And thanks again, to whoever recommended this, as I would have missed it otherwise. If nothing else, it has given me great insight into the Middle Ages and has inspired me to look into Nordic literature....

Woodnymph, my thanks to you for leading the discussion and my apologies for not having time to finish re-reading the second and third books.

Georgia Peach and Rosefolly, my sympathies to you both for your losses.

I just wanted to add a concluding remark now that I have finished the last volume and have had some time to think about it a while. All through the book I was struck by what a bitterly angry person Kristen was. It seemed to me that she was constantly pulled between her own nature and desires, and the behavior her society and religion expected of her, behavior she aspired to meet but could not. This conflict left her resentful and frustrated. She admired and respected her father too much to direct any of her anger toward him. Instead, she focused this resentment on Erlend, her partner in crime, loving him but never really forgiving him for their shared sin as long as he lived. I admired Kristen's strength, but I felt a bit sorry for poor Erlend.

Rosefolly

Rosefolly, I agree about the anger. And I think she was warned of this in her personality at various times during the trilogy, over the years, by various of the characters. I think because she was eaten up by her own guilt and could not only not forgive Erlend, but could not even forgive HERSELF. Yet, despite of these flaws, Kristin had more than enough charm to make not only Erlend, but also Simon and Ulf love her, in their various ways. Certainly Ulf and Simon were the most devoted, IMO.

I am so glad I own this, as it is a "keeper." I think I may wish to read it yet again in the future....

I have not gotten around to reading - too much RL. But I did just read the posts (excellent discussion) and I think I'm ready to try. Will post my comments later.

Great, Cindy. we'll look forward to your commentary.

In part due to this thread, our book club has decided to read Kristin Lavransdatter this fall. We will read each book separately, and discuss after each one. I think, from reading your discussion here, we will use the Nunnally edition.

Woodnymph, I've been thinking about your comment that KL must have had enough charm to entrance Erland, Simon and Ulf. Throughout the books, I several times thought it was KL's physical beauty rather than her sparkling personality that was the catalyst for the love of Erlend and Simon. Her inner self, especially as she matured, was far more complex and, as has been mentioned, guilt-ridden and bitter and I felt that both Erlend and Simon were more in love with the ideal of the lovely young maiden. As for Ulf, maybe he just admired KL's work ethic--he was a real cipher to me.

bookmom, point taken. I agree about Ulf. He was the most mysterious of characters, IMO. I did not see the ending coming as it played out.

Coming up for Thrykas.

Thanks, woodnymph! This will add an entirely new dimension to the discussion.

Bringing this up for kren250

Thanks for bringing this discussion back up, thyrkas!

I'm about 200 pages from the end of the book right now. I already know most of what happens in the pages I have left though; I stayed up until almost midnight last night skimming ahead. I just had to see what happens before I went to bed!

I've really enjoyed reading KL, and I'd say it's one of the best historical fiction books I've ever read, if not THE best. I like how the characters really seem to "reap what they sow" in the book; we readers see from the begining that life with Erlend will not be easy for Kristin, and she comes to realize that as time goes on. I really didn't care at all for Erlend; I hated how he threw Eline aside after being with her for years and having two children with her, even if she wasn't a very pleasant person. And when he left Kristin and the sons, and didn't come to see them even after the baby died, the little bit of sympathy I may have had for him went right out the window.

Regarding the discussion above about why Bjorn killed Aaschild and then himself, I think he was a bitter man who eventually came to hate Aaschild, and blame her for the way his life had gone, not only having to live in poverty and shame but feeling guilt for helping kill Aaschild's first husband, and then later helping in the cover up for Eline's death.

I hope to finish the rest of the book by tomorrow night, and then I'll come back to the discussion with some more thoughts on the ending.

Kelly

Is anyone interested in reopening this discussion. I LOVE this trilogy - I've read it 3 x. I've been dying to find someone else who's read it, but no luck until I stumbled on this discussion!

midwesternmommy - Wow! You really had to go back in the archives to find this thread! I know there are some RPers who, like you, are great fans of KL and have read it several times. Did you also read through the discussion posted here? Is there an aspect of KL that you really wanted to explore?

midwesternmommy, I've read it twice. It is a marvel of an epic. I have just read 2 books which are quite similar in theme which you might enjoy: "Giants in the Earth" by O.E. Rolvaag, and "Growth of the Soil" by Knut Hamsun. I recommend them both. The first is about life in rural Norway in the late 1800's, and the second is about Norwegian settlers in the American pioneer West.

I guess that there were a few things I'd like to explore...on Sunday, I was watching a travel show on Norway. One of the guides stops was a historical replica of an early Norwegian estate much like the one Kristin would have been mistress of. One of the (female)guides ranted and raved how advanced the early Viking culture was and really put down the medieval Christian structure that took its place after St. Olav converted Norway. Her main complaint was that women had no rights and were very suppressed. From reading the trilogy, which I understand is held to be historically accurate, it seems that women had many rights then...they could own and inherit property, they could head large schools and convents like Lady Groa...and Kristen and the other women in the novel certainly didn't seem suppressed. Any thoughts on this?

All I would say is that I trust the accuracy of Sigrid Undset. When I was researching this author as I read her novel, I learned that she was meticulous in her study of the Mediaeval Cultures in Scandinavia. I think I recall that she even lived and dressed as closely as she could to the times she depicted.

I was also hoping there were some other moms in this discussion. I first started reading this book out of highschool because my mom suggested them, but I just couldn't finish. A few years later, I picked up the trilogy again as a newlywed and mother-to-be and I couldn't put it down! There was so much to connect to with Kristin even though I lived more than 600 years later! Now, I've read the whole trilogy 3 times and I'm sure I'll pick it up again. Anyone else with similar experiences? Also, has anyone read any of Undset's other works? Are they at all similar, and in your opinions, as good?

I have not read any other of Undset's books. They can be difficult to find, nowadays. I am a stepmother, but could relate to the issues Kristin had with her sons. I read the book twice and am sure I will read it again. Which version did you read? (the earlier one that has difficult language or the newer version?) I struggled with the older translation, but still loved this classic. It's a keeper ,and I wish more had read it and appreciated it.

If you liked this so much, I think you would also like Hamsun's "Growth of the Soil" and Rolvaag's "Giants in the Earth."

I read Archer's version...it makes me feel more middle ages I guess!

laceyvail here. I haven't posted in a very long time because of family obligations, but I've been lurking a little bit lately. I was the one who originally brought up KL, and I've read it many times--first at about 17 and then roughly every ten years (I'm 64). It has always powerfully moved me, and it is my favorite novel.

As for Undset's other books, I read The Master of Hestviken some years ago, and while good, it was not memorable--today I have no idea what it was about and I was never moved to reread it, though I might search it out again since it was set in medieval times and I've been reading a LOT of historical novels. (Boy, you really have to search to find real quality there, and at least I know Undset writes well.) I also read one of Undset's novels set in modern times, and that too hasn't grabbed me.

If someone wants to discuss KL again, please start another thread. On dial-up here, and these LONG threads take a long time to come up.

Hi everyone. I finihsed Kristin a couple of months ago and can't help but going back and reread parts of it every week, I find it so dense with insights into the life of married women. Right now I am looking for a quotation and I can't find it, I thought that if everyone is re-reading, it, maybe someone will come across it. It is a quotation about how Kristin feels that you are oly young as long as you are either pregnant or with a child at your breast, I think it is in "the cross", but I am not 100% sure.

I know the quote you are referring too and I think you are right about it being in "the cross"...but I can't remember exactly where. I think it's at the beginning when they talk about Munan dying, but I'm not sure.

Bringing forward.

Have any of you read Master of Hestviken? I am still trying to figure out which I like more...but I find myself crying more in this companion novel. I can't seem to stop! Help.

I read 3 out of 4 of the Master of Hestviken books three or so years ago (whenever it was that I found the ebooks for them). The first volume wasn't available back then. I just checked Amazon, and it looks like "The Axe" is now available as a Kindle.

I'm reading KL and can't put it down. I have so many questions, but first is what did baby Erlend die from? The townspeople accuse Kristin of starvation, but I understood he refused her breast milk. He was a healthy child until he suddenly took a turn for the worse. Any ideas?

It has been at least 10 years since I read this trilogy. I cannot remember that particular detail. Did you read this entire thread? I have kept the trilogy in the hope of one day re-reading it.

Yes, I read entire thread. Very interesting!

I'm so glad so many devoted readers have found KL as powerful, insightful and rewarding as I have for so many years. For me it has been the finest historical novel ever written, and no matter how many times I read it, I'm always stunned by its insights into the human heart.

I've always felt that baby Erlend simply succumbed to so many of the ills that can befall infants and that couldn't possibly be treated without modern medicine.

I am so pleased that I found this thread! I finished reading KL a few days ago. It was so overwhelming that I had to take a few days to digest this epic. I was 18 when I first found it lying on a shelf in my uncle's house; when I told my cousin (who had read the book a few months before) about how I wanted to read it she advised me to 'wait a few years'. I was a little offended at first... but she was right. This is a book for a mature heart and mind. I started reading it at 23, finished a few weeks later when I turned 24.

The book didn't leave me with the usual sadness of missing a character or a story; it was so realistic that I said goodbye to Kristin with a finality when she died and spend everyday contemplating her life and choices. There are a few moments that stand out to me now. I'm sure when I tackle it again in a few years, I will have different observations.

The character development was truely one of the most incredible feats: I started off despising Erlend for his irresponsible and selfish seduction of Kristin. I was sure he would betray her as he did Eline, I was sure he would disappoint her, that she would live to regret giving herself to this man. His actions till this point had shown rashness and denial. He was essentially a little boy. Her father, who opitimized Christian manhood and responsibility, had left a near impossible example for Erlend to imitate. He would fail her. I, as a reader, knew it. Surely then, Kristin must have known it too.

And so I come to one of my saddest moments in part 1: Kristin has fought in her teenage naivete to win this man. She loved passionately because she believed, perhaps rightly, that by giving her body to this man, she had given him her future. How pure and lovely an intention if humans were perfect. It was her duty and right as a lover to claim him. (One of the wisdom's in chastity come forward - to wait till marriage to wake desires that rule your mind). Anyway, she broke her father, the steadfast virtuous Lavrans... And Success! She has won him. And even in her youth she knows, she knows, the prize has lost its shine. She is trapped by her own love of him and it is too late. The unworthy prize is hers after 3 long years.

I have so much to write. But I am thinking on this small part of the book now... how much did she realize at that point? If she had married Simon, would she have always felt a need to escape? Was Erlend, in some way, despite the bitterness and hardship or because of it... in the end an aid to get her to heaven? Did she miss her vocation as a nun? Did she ever suspect her mother's secret and see the generational sorrows? If we do make a mistake (in choosing a path), do we always regret it? Just a thought - when Erlend and Kristin were going to elope before Eline came, did either of them see Aashild and Bjorn's situation as a foreshadowing of what might happen.. sins of the father? I felt it and was relieved they were spared that

And just a sobering thought, it seemed appropriate considering that the root of Erlend's faults came from lust, that he should be pierced in the groin and die. Somehow... it was right to me. My opinion of Erlend did change drastically as the novel progressed though, I came to pity him and love him in a way... but this kind of symbolism has always been interesting to me

Thanks for all the comments. So pleased this book is being read... one of the best books I have ever read in my life.

Bringing this back up for Carolyn. There are at least two other much shorter follow-on threads. This discussion took place back in the days before Spike sold Gardenweb Forums to iVillages who then sold it to Houzz. At the time there was a limit of 100 posts per thread.

I remember when this discussion first started; I had never even heard of this book let alone read it. I still haven't read it and just out of interest checked the US and UK Amazon sites. In the UK there are no more than a handful of readers who have usually bought second-hand copies. In the US there are comments from several hundred readers. A US RP'er wrote to tell me she had found it the most boring book in the world and that it had been required reading while at High School in the mid-West . . . Perhaps this is why it has become better known 'over the Pond'?

When I saw this thread at the top of the list, of course I had to read through it again. Margaret Williamson, I think your comments are very insightful--many great insights in this thread. Last fall, a dear, dear friend was dying and I was one of four women who took 8 hour shifts to help her husband care for her in her last days. It was not an easy passing, and I reread KL for perhaps the 11th or 12 time as I sat by my friend's death bed. It was exactly what I needed--such a clear headed presentation of the complexities of all life--love, death and everything in between.

My friend died several days before Christmas and I finished the book with her passing.

I still think it's the most powerful novel I've ever read.

Regarding the original comment and the question about Ragnfrid and Lavrana, Ragnfrid doesn't long for her first lover. Her sadness is in part because she falls in love with her husband Lavrans in every way, and he does not return her passion and desire. Lavrans is a great husband in every "other" way that can be seen, but he has no desire or passion earlier in their marriage.

So Ragnfrid grows depressed — not because she pined for the dead man (the reader doesn't know who he is, and he is dead) ... but because Lavrans wasn't interested in her sexually. He says he was too young and it repulsed him.

This made me question his orientation. But then it is said there was a certain woman he would consider would have been able to.

Ragnfrid reveals her secret because she misinterprets something he says the night Kristin gets married, when Lavrans is able to acknowledge to himself that his daughter was not a maiden and is trying to understand where he went wrong as a father, husband, man, and so on .

When the book begins, Ragnfrid's somber moods are explained in the eyes of the society (servants, kinsmen, village folk)... She lost three boys. She fasts and prays too much. People think she takes the death of her three infant sons too harshly, since she and Lavrana can (and do) have more children. They don't know she feels guilty about not being a virgin when she married Lavrans. They don't know Lavrans doesn't feel "passion" for her, either. All their marital intimacy was to fulfill the religious expectations. She grows used to that.

Kristin's scandals and the wedding brings them closer together. They become closer after the confessions. A more enduring type of love begins there.

I just stumbled across this discussion. I haven't been to RP in some years except perhaps for an occasional quick look, so I was astonished to find that this old discussion was still alive. I started the entire discussion and since then have read KL several more times and I'm still struck dumb by Undset's knowledge of the human heart and the depth of her characters. It's still a book I urge people to read, but no one I know personally ever has.

I'm almost 80 now and hope to read it several more times. I hope some of you will too. It gets better and better.

How cool to see this post come up again from 17 years ago. Wow! Loved Kristin Lavransdatter. Still do.

I'm so happy to see this post come up again. Loved this trilogy.

We just moved (discussed elsewhere). Moving to a smaller house we examined everything. We donated about 10% of our books to the public library used book sale out old house, and a similar number here at our new house. My husband donated a portion of his books as well. Don't worry, we still have lots of books. I specifically remember coming across the three volumes of Kristin Lavransdatter and said to myself," keep". No hesitation. I have only read it twice, once in my late teens and once for our discussion, and perhaps I will read it again one day.

Several years ago, I read a Science Fiction novel in which a character had to decide what, of very few things allowed, she would bring on a long, long voyage to another planet from which they would never return. One of those items was Kristin Lavransdatter. I've forgotten most of the novel, but not her choice to bring that book.

If you knew nothing else of humanity but what was in KL, you'd know a great deal.

This is about a comment that is more recent, even though it was posted six years ago. I'm happy to see this thread got revived. I enjoy receiving updates from it in my mailbox. I joined this year, and I was so pleased to read many old-timers loved coming back.

So, regarding the comment that caught my eye about the US and UK readings.

Kristin Lavransdatter isn't required reading in US high schools, that I know of. It's not one that ever got mentioned at all where I went to school. Not at all. In the Midwest specifically there is a presence of Scandinavian-Americans (Norwegian-Americans, Swedish-Americans and others) in the regional population that is significant. Therefore, it could be for that reason that in a Midwestern high school, especially some decades ago, it would have been more

commonly assigned to be read.

The books required in the late 1990s for me, in a high school in northern West Virginia and one in southern California, were different. We were usually allowed to choose from lists as long as we were in Advanced Placement courses or honors courses. I remember Shakespeare being required reading, during 12th grade. Many tragedies and comedies. The Odyssey and the Illiad were required in 9th grade. I chose to read The Great Gatsby, The Return of the Native, and one that was obligatory was Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment.

For a humanities course, we were required to read the Epic of Gilgamesh.

There were many others that were more trendy in the 90s, such as authors belonging to minority populations, such as Native American writers or Black American writers . I chose to read most N. Scott Momaday novels one semester, and he belongs to the Kiowa peoples of present-day USA, but I believe his novels date from the 1960s.

No one knew or at least never brought up Kristin Lavransdatter where I went to school. I decided to teach myself Norwegian during my free time for fun. I enjoyed it. One could find tapes and a book for very cheap, and it seemed interesting and close to English.

I purchased a used copy of the Archer translation in 1999 in the summer. There was an amazing corner bookshop close to the main Post Office called Books Books Books in Morgantown back in the day. So many treasures! Wonderful days before the internet took over how many of us now purchase books. I was still 15.

Anyway, I didn't read Kristin Lavransdatter until I was 40 this past winter. I'm glad I didn't tackle a book that deep at such a young age. I wouldn't have understood it the same way. I tried many times, even in college, but couldn't get into it for some reason.

Maybe it was just nerves that it was such a massive novel, and I felt a tad intimidated at the time.

I am more than halfway through it. I stopped about two-thirds of the way through the second tome, The Wife or Mistress of Husaby after... *SPOILER!*

Kristin's stepson dies. Seemed such a random and useless death. I think one flaw the novel has is that there is no end to the suffering, and I particularly liked this character. I believed his name was Orm?

I just lost patience.

Kristin as a character is not so bad at first, but then she meets Erlend. I can't sympathize with her much during her need to marry such an unworthy man.

Her psychology to me hasn't quite come together coherently. First, as a little girl she easily cried or felt shame. Her looks were celebrated. Her father took great pride in her and it's possible he did spoil her. When she is an adolescent and old enough for betrothal, she feels great shame and is very hurt when she is attacked and accused unfairly (which is why she asks to go to the convent).

It doesn't make sense that such a young girl would really be so happy to be seduced so simply by a womanizer much, much older in comparison.

Her intense dislike of Simon is also odd. She feels jealous of him because his father likes him. I also couldn't quite understand that. In a world where everyone's marriage is arranged, she simply is disgusted by Simon even though he has very few real flaws. However, she is pursued by Erlend in such a shameful way and she is OK with it all. I couldn't understand or even sympathize.

I re-read the part where they *SPOILER!*

kill the former mistress by forcing her to take poison. I don't know how she could do that, no matter how in love she believes she is. It's madness. Even after seeing all Erlend is, she doesn't give up.

It's hard for me to feel sorry for her, and I feel disgusted by Erlend from the moment he shows up.

The one character I found very intriguing was Aashild, Erlend's aunt. I know how she'll end up by the end of the novel.

I hope to pick it back up next winter. I sped through the first part, but the second one was much harder. I have to read it paying much more attention to detail.

I really want to finish the novel, but it takes a lot of patience. I hope I can return here and see if I changed my mind.

I often wonder this: did Kristin let herself be seduced by Erlend and end up in such a relationship because of the trauma of being assaulted, accused, and branded a girl of questionable reputation? I think: maybe she was so sensitive that she decided she'd "show them," subconsciously, by entangling herself with Erlend.

I hope I will have a better understanding of her and the entire novel one day, but this is one of those novels one can reflect about one's whole life. For some, it may be "boring," but it's a great literary accomplishment that often gets ignored, not sure why.

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