I am not sure if its the 'Glenfiddich' I am presently enjoying as I write but I thought your letter was triumphant to say the least.
I was somewhat dissapointed that I couldn't see your garden on your website ?? Your letter was a good argument for indigenous plants, but perhaps that is what you were actually saying??
R

R..My argument is about choosing the right plant for the right place..I am not very interested in the native versus exotic..In my opinion a plant from WA grown in Victoria might as well be from Peru..the only concern in the plant choice area is that we should be very careful we do not plant potentially weedy plants ..and that includes natives!!
If you punch the 'view my current page and gallery button you will arrive at my temporary web stuff replete with many photographs and web articles..My web site should be up and running very shortly..Also if you pop out to your local newsagents and buy YOUR GARDEN mag you will find a 5 page article BY ME..THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR COMMENT wm

I have just re-read the chapter on your garden, in "A Garden of My own" - Australian Gardeners stories, which I had just finished reading a few days ago. I have to admit that your chapter in that book did not strike a chord with me, apart from your passion for buddleia's which I share - not a criticism, just a statement of difference in attitudes. It starts off with the comment that your 2 acre garden is virtually frost free - something many of us in Victoria don't enjoy.
You ask why we should grow deciduous trees that only have interest at certain parts of the year, when we can grow evergreen trees. Again - purely a difference in attitude. I find deciduous trees interesting for much of the year, because of their cycle, whereas I find many evergreen trees incredibly boring. I have a passion for flowering shrubs such as buddleias, viburnums, lilacs, hebes. I also grow many roses, and have large beds of a huge variety of iris species and hybrids, being a collector, and active member of the Vic Iris society. My plant choices are strongly influenced by climate and microclimate, but they are also often plants that have a strongly visible 1 year cycle, so that I can enjoy that season of anticipation - late winter - a time of year I look forward to more than Spring, when all the buds are swelling and there is so much promise of renewed life. True joy to me, but not to everyone.

You would most likely find this to be an unartistic and absurdly labour intensive garden. Is it any less a garden? Where is the fun? For me it is in the doing, and not in the standing back and looking. It is my exercise, or 'sport' if you like, and I find it immensely satisfying, and health giving. It is a messy garden, constantly in need of tidying and weeding, as I have a paid job to do as well. Despite that it is much admired by friends and neighbors. My passion for gardening BTW began at a much more tender age - around 5 years, having been brought up in a garden loving family of English descent, who brought with them English attitudes towards gardening, that I am very proud of.

Water? For much of the year here, our problem is one of too much, rather than to little, although our late Summers are dry. For that reason I have installed 2 rainwater tanks, to decrease our reliance on town water. And I mulch, mulch, mulch. Our heavy clay loam does not lose water easily, so most of my plants do very well thankyou with very little, including my fairly large vegetable beds. Again - others do not have these conditions, so I would not suggest to them that they garden in the same way.
I think that much of what you say is right and educating gardeners is a very worthy cause. You must not expect everyone to take on board your ideas though - we are a very diverse lot and most of us enthusiastic gardeners do our bit to reduce water usage. You will find that if you stay a while on the forums.

I have just re-read the chapter on your garden, in "A Garden of My own"

I had no idea I had any entry in this bookÂ.Can you provide publisher details etc?

- Australian Gardeners stories, which I had just finished reading a few days ago. I have to admit that your chapter in that book did not strike a chord with me, apart from your passion for buddleia's
I have virtually Âditched all non southern hemisphere Budds..They are too boring as an overall plant by comparison.

- Which I share - not a criticism, just a statement of difference in attitudes. It starts off with the comment that your 2 acre garden is virtually frost free - something many of us in Victoria don't enjoy.
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- I created a garden (15yrs) in a quite vicious frost area ..replete with heavy heavy black clay! I grow 95% of the plant grown at this place in ÂwigandiaÂ
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You ask why we should grow deciduous trees that only have interest at certain parts of the year, when we can grow evergreen trees. Again - purely a difference in attitude.
- The main thrust of this comment is ..often the deciduous tree is used a little too freely..its about balance (as is all)
-
- I find deciduous trees interesting for much of the year, because of their cycle, whereas I find many evergreen trees incredibly boring. I have a passion for flowering shrubs such as buddleias, viburnums, lilacs, hebes.
-
- ALL shrubs (and plants for that matter) are Âflowering types..Depends whether your Âtaste is for for the Âblousy or the more subtleÂ
-
- I also grow many roses, and have large beds of a huge variety of iris species and hybrids, being a collector, and active member of the Vic Iris society. My plant choices are strongly influenced by climate and microclimate, but they are also often plants that have a strongly visible 1 year cycle, so that I can enjoy that season of anticipation - late winter - a time of year I look forward to more than Spring, when all the buds are swelling and there is so much promise of renewed life. True joy to me, but not to everyone.

I too grow many roses..but Âblend them trough ..Nothing more boring than Ârose beds  in winter!
You would most likely find this to be an unartistic and absurdly labour intensive garden. Is it any less a garden?
Of course not..My thrust is about ANY sort of creativity ,,BUT within the confines of ..or rather an eye to the wanton waste of the many resources used in the making and maintaining climatically absurd modelsÂPlant choice is an individual /private thing. Squandering of resources is most definitely NOT!
Where is the fun? For me it is in the doing, and not in the standing back and looking. It is my exercise, or 'sport' if you like, and I find it immensely satisfying, and health giving. It is a messy garden, constantly in need of tidying and weeding, as I have a paid job to do as well. Despite that it is much admired by friends and neighbors. My passion for gardening BTW began at a much...

have just re-read the chapter on your garden, in "A Garden of My own"
I had no idea I had any entry in this bookÂ.Can you provide publisher details etc?
Ah I know the book as 'the open garden!

"A Garden of My Own":- First published in 2000 as "The Open Garden" this is the revised edition published in 2003, by Allen & Unwin. Edited by Louise Earwaker and Neil Robertson.

As you say, wars will most likely be fought over water as they are over oil, but it won't be the gardeners who are causing the shortage. It will be the big multinational corporations who are wontenly soiling the water of 3rd world countries and poisoning the environment. Not a good idea to try and lay a guilt trip on a group of ardent and enthusiastic gardeners as we have here. It reminds me of the attitude my mother had that we should "eat our crusts because children in China were starving."

When you say we "use" more water per capita than in the USA - do you mean in total, or a measure of what comes through the tap from collected sources? Much of the USA has higher rainfall than us, so their crops are not so reliant on collected water, and you may find that in fact, they "Use" more water per capita than us, if that is taken into account. I do think this is relevant because our reservoirs were designed to provide us with water at times when it is not falling from the sky. Much of the problem in many areas of Australia, is in water management, as well as excess usage by many parties for non gardening purposes. Take for instance the use of Melb water a couple of years ago to top up the water table around the Burnley tunnel works.
Also the imposition on stricter purification laws, preventing small communities from using their purpose built, locally paid for water supplies, and allowing the water to be used instead by privatised water companies, to water golf courses for tourists. (sorry - just a local pet peeve there) While we are added to an already overtaxed water system and made to suffer phase 3 restrictions.

I certainly think there should be more severe restrictions in areas of new housing subdivisions, where people continue to plant their lawns and keep them green all year, as well as hosing down their paths and cars.

I also think such new developments should be requiring residents to install large rainwater collection tanks to provide water for both domestic and garden usage.

I can't find my Spring YG and don't recall reading the article about the Mulch furphy - perhaps you could explain. All I know is that the beds I have that are well mulched with peastraw are far less labour intensive, and the soil underneath much more workable, than those that are not yet mulched. It will take a good argument to convince me that I am wrong :-)

Here in Australia it IS about "Doing it my way. This is a democracy, but if it ever changes it won't be because of the way I designed my garden, or whether I eat my crusts or not! Think I'll just rug up, pop outside and pull a few weeds.

Hear, hear Sparaxis!! I might just go out and rake up the remnants of the autumn leaves and do a bit of mulching with them.....I love gardening!!
Dee.

"A Garden of My Own":- First published in 2000 as "The Open Garden" this is the revised edition published in 2003, by Allen & Unwin. Edited by Louise Earwaker and Neil Robertson.
Yep got it..this raft of words came out of a 4 hour conversation.
As you say, wars will most likely be fought over water as they are over oil, but it won't be the gardeners who are causing the shortage. It will be the big multinational corporations who are wantonly soiling the water of 3rd world countries and poisoning the environment. Not a good idea to try and lay a guilt trip on a group of ardent and enthusiastic gardeners as we have here. It reminds me of the attitude my mother had that we should "eat our crusts because children in China were starving."
Sorry but this is pure from the ÂHip stuffÂÂGuilt will be lain by future generations when the mess they inherit come home to roost!
When you say we "use" more water per capita than in the USA - do you mean in total, or a measure of what comes through the tap from collected sources? Much of the USA has higher rainfall than us, so their crops are not so reliant on collected water, and you may find that in fact, they "Use" more water per capita than us, if that is taken into account. I do think this is relevant because our reservoirs were designed to provide us with water at times when it is not falling from the sky.
In totalÂ. Reservoirs are for use year roundÂ
Much of the problem in many areas of Australia, is in water management, as well as excess usage by many parties for non gardening purposes. Take for instance the use of Melb water a couple of years ago to top up the water table around the Burnley tunnel works.
I agreeÂ.management is often abysmalÂthe tunnel was a jokeÂ

Also the imposition on stricter purification laws, preventing small communities from using their purpose built, locally paid for water supplies,
Are you saying Âlocals fork out money (private) for water storage!!!!

and allowing the water to be used instead by privatised water companies, to water golf courses for tourists. (sorry - just a local pet peeve there) While we are added to an already overtaxed water system and made to suffer phase 3 restrictions.

The golf course equation is also an absurd oneÂvast acres of green for a tiny minority of the POPÂÂ
I certainly think there should be more severe restrictions in areas of new housing subdivisions, where people continue to plant their lawns and keep them green all year, as well as hosing down their paths and cars.

I also think such new developments should be requiring residents to install large rainwater collection tanks to provide water for both domestic and garden usage.
I talked at length with Melbourne water about much of this stuffÂall new subdivisions could have central collection points ..and the water could be distributed through a separate outdoor usage system..each householder given a percentage of the collection per annumÂ

RE: Gardening our latitude with attitude
Posted by: deejaus Melb.Vic. Aust (My Page) on Wed, Jun 22, 05 at 1:59

Hear, hear Sparaxis!! I might just go out and rake up the remnants of the autumn leaves and do a bit of mulching with them.....I love gardening!!
Dee.

Dear DEE...Is this a reply or a grovel?

which edition of YG is your article in? my winter edition hasnt arrived yet, is the "current" edition the spring one or the winter one?

The current issue is Winter..been out for a few weeks..I know a lot of people have had trouble finding stock..poor distribution!

Yes the Cosgrave res was contributed to largely by local residents, by way of a rate levy by the Hepburn Shire council, many years ago. The locals consider it their reservoir. It was built to provide the township well into the future and the Kennett Government set aside $3M for an improved filtration plant as part of the privatisation deal. The 3M disappeared, along with the profits from the sale of the local waterboard property. Central Highlands water put us on to the already overstressed Ballarat supply, and are paying for the water to be piped from Cosgrave, over the divide, a cost which they claim is a few thousand dollars less than the new filtration cost, but will no doubt end up costing more, and will give them more control. While our water is in the hands of companies trying to show massive profits for shareholders, our interests and that of the environment will be of little consequence.
If you are looking for a war being fought over water, look no further than Creswick.

BTW - I found my YG. I can see why much of your garden survives without water. Are you not concerned that these plants that do so well are not a major threat to the environment as weeds?

Dear....,
Yep..the privatisation of the resource utilities was capitalism with a capital 'greed'!!!
A wee story..
My garden has been visited by many thousands of people (the price of fame!!) One weekend over 2000 (it was hell) I try to speak to as many folks as I can...From speaking to these people i gather the biggest problem most garden makers have is the lack of knowledge of plants that may be suitable for a more sustainable garden..(yes many are very bored with the 'trad' equation for lots of reasons) The Horticultural media and our public gardens obviously are not doing much of a job of educating..and so down to the likes of my garden to give some EXAMPLES!
When my garden won the Better homes and gardens garden of the year thing (2002)I contacted many water boards around the state (including my local and Melbourne) to invite them on-board for a open garden weekend 'dry climate gardening'..I requested they throw in a coupla bob..(small beer) to fund the promotion of this concept (the Melbourne rag rates ain't cheap!) The best answer I got (and many did not answer) was from the Geelong crowd..they indicated they might if others did!! Melbourne water reckoned I was too far away from their 'catchment'!!(many of my punters travel from Melbourne)
My local authority took it all as a kind of 'attack' (on there authority I expect)
So no go all round!!
The weedy aspect of my plants.....well I have to say that this 'weed' stuff is a very political (environmental groups are very powerful) thing...I am surrounded by wall to wall pasture..any plant I choose to have on the place must be carefully assessed..The agricultural base is our economy..I cannot introduce any plant that would jeopardise thaT!!
Also when visitors show a keenness for certain 'weed' potential types I ask em where they live etc...many plants I grow would be quite unsuitable for areas that may have local (so-called) natural bush!!
We are the greatest weeds on this continent...the amount of truly 'natural' ecology's left in this country would be a tiny percentage...The Western volcanic plains of Victoria are a prime example of one of the (once) biggest natural grass plans to be reduced to under 1% (or thereabouts)..
Too much to write about in one post!!!

W. I remember first seeing photos of your prize winning garden and being absolutely envious of your very obvious design skills and the inspiring garden you have created. "thanks>
I was also glad to see that you were growing some of 'my plants' - the spikey tough agaves, (I prefer aloes but this is a more suitable climate) yuccas and grasses. "Aloe's don't grow where you are?>
I haven't seen your article in YG but agree with your reading of the future for our species if we don't re learn to use water in a more prudent manner. I too have made the decision to tough out the dry and see which plants survive and let the others go. So far there have been very few losses. I think it is an enormous challenge to design low water gardens for a country which has so many varying climate patterns. Unfortunately a large number of garden owners see a garden merely as a status symbol.
"Sadly those 'symbols' are products of the rather 'crass' lifestyle TV stuff!..Not very high status if you ask me!!>
If they couldn't have automatic irrigation systems
" the Melbourne water restrictions that ALLOW the use of these incredible wasteful things is absolutely ridiculous...most 'systems' waste more water than not!..I am working on a garden in one of Melbs 'better' suburbs..next door have a 'system'....AL day the seepage from the block runs down the gutter..oversaturated..and this is perfectly within the RULES!!!>
and they had to hand water or move hoses they simply wouldn't do so and the resultant water saving!s would be enormous
"you bet>
I have worked in nurseries and unfortunately customers want what they see on TV or the neighbour has - they do not want to hear anything you say that is contradictory to the formula planting schemes presented on TV. The overwhelming majority want flowers and flowers all year and cannot accept that no amount of money can buy something which does not exist- a plant that has flowers 365 days a year, grows in a small plastic pot in a westerly aspect, and always looks good.
" The Horticultural media in Australia sadly 'kowtow's to the plant industry...Some in the industry are starting to get it right..BUT!!!..The plant industry relies heavily on plant 'death'...they need to continually 're-sell' if you like!..sadly it is rather difficult to break into the garden media to offer up another 'view'..so many of the 'players' (writers etc) have nailed themselves to the unsustainable 'cross'..A massive shake up is required..this is serious MUM!!>

I usually ask if they're talking about the ones you see in cemeteries. Usually kills the conversation.
"actually some great plants can be found wild in cemeteries!!...Err those that have escaped council 'Napalm'....(roundup)

I applaud your attempt to open up discussion on the topic of what I call ' The gardens of the future' I started mine years ago and as I work in it I am constantly mulling over the dilemma of the need to grow vegetation and the diminishing...

I would be surprised to find anyone on this forum that doesn't think we need to conserve water but I for one am very annoyed at the WA Govt's constant harping at gardeners to conserve with no attempt to get industry to do like wise.

I have copied the following...
"According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, households use only 13% of WA's total water consumption, compared with 28% for industry, and 40% for agriculture. While household use is not expected to rise significantly over the next few years, industry's water consumption is growing at a rapid rate."

I would also like to add that many folk here have probably been gardening their "plots" for many years, in my case 20+ and cannot afford to replant. Should I have to refrain from any outside watering I shall have to let the garden die if it can't cope, and it won't in the long run, and that will eventually add to the water shortage problem when a large proportion of the state is the one colour....brown.

Cheryl.

Cheryl, that is precicely why I have put in tanks to collect our roof water. We are on phase 3 restrictions for the whole of summer, and some of my plants DO need water, and some that COULD do without, I choose to water. We are in a situation where we are permitted to use microspray systems 3 times a week for 6 hours. These are SO wasteful, and I watch next doors systems spew mist into the air, and land on a thick bark mulch and do absolutely nothing for their garden. I am in a position to be able to afford to set up the garden this way, but prefer to take the risk and hand water or use the soaker hose at times that suit me. The times (7 to 9 for hand watering) I am sure are set so as NOT to suit people. With our heavy work schedule, this is the only time I see my partner each day, so I water between 6 & 8 in the morning instead.
One thing that really gets up my nose is the sewerage extensions that are being done in many small towns. My fruit trees rely on water from our septic system to keep them alive during the summer, and much as it pains me to see the ground so wet in winter, I would hate to lose this source of water. I would most definitely be looking at putting in a grey water system if we were ever forced to connect to sewerage. We are only 1/4km out of limits at present, so I guess the day will come. Great for those neighbours who want to subdivide their 1 or 2 acre blocks.

The garden behind our commercial property was set up some years ago on a steeply tiered hillside with many popular roses, weeping standard trees, and tree ferns. It is bigger than the average backyard garden, but no "lawn".The first year I tried to water it but, having odd numbers at both properties meant I couldn't be in both places, and I simply didn't have the time. The second year, I set up plastic pipes over 1/2 the garden, and occasionally remembered to set them going (with timer). Last summer I simply gave up. The trees are fine, some of the roses have died. I intend to rip many of the modern roses out and replace them with rugosas and gallicas which do so well here, without water. They will also suit this lovely old building more than iceberg and peace. And I will mulch them heavily :-)

PS - not a bed and breakfast anymore - now a software company (I must ask them to remove that web page)

Here is a link that might be useful: Old Gold Bank

Wigandia, I read your original post here with great interest; it left me with a strong desire to know more and actually see your garden. Your contributions to the rest of this string have turned me right off - not off the topic (there are plenty of other people discussing the same gardening philosophy) but off your bullying discussion mode. When will you guys (and it always seems to be men) learn that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. And that courtesy never hurt anyone.

Look - I have already had far to much to say on this topic and was going to let this pass, but Meryl, if you have been round for a while you KNOW what happens when people start calling names and getting picky - someone or more go for a holiday to Disneyland, and the thread disappears. AND we end up losing valuable GW members. I have been Disneyed - for some 3 months at the time, because of something stupid I did on GW. It's hard to get back and I enjoy this place.

Let's not let that happen here. Contribute. This is a worthwhile topic as you say - keep it going. No one 'owns' a thread, it is a forum for open discussion and good things can come out of these discussions even when people have strong opinions and express them forcefully.

Wigandia, you may find more people will read your postings if you only answer the previous one, and don't include all the bits of their letter. The letters are all there above to read, and it is easier just to read the new contribution, otherwise it gets heavy going trying to sort out who said what. You are a new GW member, and probably don't realise there is a person just waiting out there in cyberspace, to throw people off the forums if they are naughty.

Cheers, Jan

Cheryl_..All water users need to tighten belts..I reckon the best solution is to apply the quota system for ALL users..As for your garden dieing...I take any plant death as an opportunity to plants another! You need not go to the expense of buying expensive nursery stock..You could join a garden club..most gardeners are very generous with plants! Hope you don't lose too much!

Thanks Wigandia. I hope I don't either, it is all doing very well on the two days we are allowed to water as I now have a lot of shade tolerant plants suitable for drier area's, they have allowed a sizable colony of Bandicoots to live and breed here, any loss of ground-cover would spell the end to them. I don't intend to be here long enough to want to start a third time with this garden.

Cheryl.

Cheryl..the Bandit's sound like fun..are they rare? You must have a lot of tree's by the sound of it? Do you grow Arthropodium..the new Zeal and rock Lilly..an unkillable plant for stone dry shade ?
Billy

I live in South Australia and I am using mainly drought tolerant plants but as to no watering at all during summer couldnt that have a structual impact on our homes? I was only told last week by someone in the building profession about another person who didnt water their garden during our long dry summer and that huge cracks had appeared in the garden and their home. Not little cracks but cracks several centimetres wide.

Though I feel gardeners can help by being water wise and following the councils guidelines which I do, I think it would take legislation to drastically change the amount of water that is used. Perhaps new homes could be built with a system in place for using grey water, or grants could be given to people who are willing to have their existing homes modified to install a grey water irrigation system. But as Sparaxis said that we home gardeners are only use a fraction of the water used in Australia. I feel that it is sad that many of us feel guilty if we water at all when surely it is helpful to the environment to have trees and plants. So I will continue abiding by my council's water wise suggestions but I will be using some water during the summer to keep the plants alive and stabilise the soil.

Shelley

Shelley..good point about the house thing..Stone/brick etc are those that are most prone to this..some architects advice underfloor sprinkler system for the worst soil types..I suspect if even in a 'big' dry houses will 'crack' even with standard garden watering..this moisture would not influence way underneath the house!
Sadly legislation will be the ultimate solution for this whole water issue..
Grey water usage on gardens is coming under attack from certain quarters..re hygiene etc..I reckon it to be a rather 'grey' area..research needs to be done...We must remember that beneath all of our gardens are underground water systems...what impact will mass use of grey water have on that..(also the many problems associated with mass use of organic mulch..acidification etc)A good example of city water usage (not grey) affecting land beyond the cities boundaries is the City of Bendigo in central Victoria..studies have shown that the Domestic use of water to maintain green lawns through the drier times (40-60% of all domestic water usage was/is used in that city for lawns!)has impacted heavily on nearby farn land..In an area that already has 'salt' problems ,the effect of the seepage from bendigo has seen substantial increase of these problems..Now very few gardeners would consider that the mere watering of ones 'patch' could do such a thing ..but when so much water is poured out ..strange things do happen.
This so-called fraction of water is not the 'point' as I see it (gotta be careful here I have been accused of bullying!!) It is the 'attitude' that is the core issue...as our population grows our water supplies do not! Industry/agriculture have a kind of 'right on side..they produce and employ! Domestic gardens are largely 'ornamental' indulgences..a very small percentage of the population would grow food for survival..most vegi gardens are merely 'top-up' tucker...We must come to terms with this growing the 'right' plant for the given space..if we wish to grow climatically silly plants we can do so in containers or specifically designed areas (like a fernery) for these plants...A huge amount of water is squandered when gardeners place a high water use plant in an area that is surrounded by say too much root competition from tree's or some other equation...Many gardeners water whole garden area's just for 1 plant...that is silly in the extreme!
I believe we are seeing important generational change towards gardens..the 'traditional' mix of plants as we now know them will be 'dropped' for a more climatically suited range...much of this change is due in part to the notion that 'traditional' gardens are boring and fuddy duddy and also the simple fact that houses will have much less area for gardens as we once new them (and less time to tend em)...sadly the biggest loss to the landscape will be 'greenery'!

Did anyone see Australian story a couple of weeks ago? It was shown over two weeks and was about a farmer who had employed contraversial techniques to solve salt table problems and re green his drought stricken property. I wish I could remember his name as it was very interesting. Governments seemed to be at last getting interested. My garden is labour intensive and most of my plants will always require some watering in summer. However my use is a drop in the ocean compared to the water squandering of governments. (as already mentioned the burnley tunnel) I know now that it is now legislation that new homes have either a rain tank or solar hot water. My personal peeve is the treated water that most of australia happily flushes down our toilets. I dont think we are in a drought in australia I think climate change is here and it should be an urgent priority for government to provide the research money to investigate deslination and provide incentives for more of us to install rainwater toilet systems etc (for those of us who need incentives to do the right thing

Marysville has a very large annual rainfall - it is not unusual to take 5 inches from the gauge. The sad thing is that this water ends up on the wrong side of Eildon Res and flows down the Goulburn River where the agricultural area around Shepparton gets most of the benefit.
Drought resistant plants would not survive the cold and wet of winter in Marysville and a garden of that type would look out of place. I do grow some Mediterranean stuff but I also (like Sparaxis) enjoy gardening - weeding and raking up leaves etc. and the foliage and seasonal changes.
I've often wondered why we grow rice and cotton in Australia, both of which are enormous users of water. (I heard a figure that every $1's worth of rice of kg rice uses an incredible amount of water. Maybe we should let the traditional countries grow these crops.
(I once had a small property at Noorat near the mount and I know the type of country you are gardening in. It's all scoria isn't it?)

youngquinn...A Mr Andrews I think..he gave a great interview on abc FM..I think he has a book too
I have no truck with labour intensive gardens/gardeners..I was once all of that!!
I agree about all the waste water..I believe even places like so-called boggy UK are actually re-cycling water for reuse..fresh water is a looming global thing...I do not subscribe to the use of seawater..what to do with the salt..and really its just another natural resource plunder..WE must live within our means....

Ah..The LOOK..the look may have to change..but one can find alternative plants in the creation of virtually any style of garden...I have absolutely no problem with deciduous plant..I just hate to see em used too frequently...Drought resistant plants come in all shapes and sizes and for all regions..its all about the knowledge of what!! Too little research is done by commercial plant growers..the general public suffer the ignorance of that sector..A good reference library will always be of greater importance than all the coffee table books and mags put together..an attractive equation of plants for ALL areas is waiting somewhere to be discovered by YOU! (and everyone else!!)
Rice and cotton growing is absurd in this country..but then cattle are enormous users of water too...A CSRIO study recently reckoned if the entire planet consumed as much as we Victorians the grand total of 4 and a half planets would be required..that says a lot..they suggest if we drop one red meat meal a week that would make a significant improvement...
We live on Mt Noorat itself..hundreds of metres of scoria under the place...we had 11 inches in one day some time back (15yrs) on a Jan day...not a puddle was to be seen!

Wigandia....No I don't have any of that plant, I have put in a lot of Clivia's, Aspidistra, aggapanthus, Dieties and heaps of walking iris, all do very well in the dry shade and quite a few Philodendrons and Monsteria (which are now at the fruiting stage...yum).... Also have quite a bit of Lantana, both the shrub and ground cover ones, I would like to add that the Lantana I have does not set seeds, I also have grass type plants but can't recall the name right now. And yes, I have a lot of very large gum trees.

This is an aerial veiw of our block...No 24.

{{gwi:2113309}}

Cheryl.

Cheryl..Have a look at this link for the NZ rock lily..it has exquisite sprays of white lilium like flowers..one of my top 10 plants...this site is one of the most enthusiastic garden sites I know too..this woman is totally besotted with the whole thing!
http://www.mooseyscountrygarden.com/gardening-articles/new-zealand-native-garden.html
I see you have a lot of tree's ..Mmmm do you really think your garden would die without water? Do you grow the good old Bergenia ? Great for light shade too..Lomandra..Poa.. Indian Hawthorn..If you cannot source a rock lily I would be happy to send you a bare rooted chunk..
Best Wishes
Billy.

Ah yes, Billy...I have tried a Rock Lily, the snails loved it and won I think...I shall have to check 'cause I may still have it, I didn't get any more as it didn't do very well for me at all but I remember shifting it down to the front area but must admit I am not sure whether it survived or not. I do have Lomandra, they are one of the things I couldn't remember and I also have lots of both the white and pink Indian Hawthorn. Don't have any Poa's. I also have a couple of different Dianella's, another grassy one. oh I also have a lot of both the blue and white plumbago...lol..if I keep going I may well recall all I have out there, it is a half acre of shrubs/trees and the grasses all crammed in together trying to make very dense cover for the Bandicoots, as to have them breeding here was my goal and by the amount we saw around the yard today, very small ones about 3-4" long to some very large ones well over a foot long we have well and truly achieved that.
Thank you for the offer to send me some Rock Lily but the cost of you treating it before it would pass our quarantine would be very steep I would think.
Oh, I have some Flax's as well. I know there are more but I think I have listed the majority now...:)

Cheryl.

Cheryl, I gather you are planning on building on your block sometime soon? I would recommend making a list of the types of plants you need now, and start collecting from friends, and trades on the exchange forum. Pot everything up, and if you need to repot, divide things as you do. I brought over 20 trailer loads of potted plants here from my old place, and it still went no where near filling the garden - just made a start.
I second the Renga-Renga lily. It is excellent in very dry soil under the gum trees, giving a lovely display of bloom. A couple of others I have found quite hardy in the same dry situation are Francoa (like a heuchera) and Solomon's Seal - I never would have thought this would be equally at home in wet clay and in VERY dry barely any topsoil. Might only be for me though.
Perhaps we should start a completely new thread to list those plants that do incredibly well in very dry conditions?

Great idea...perhaps with a number of lists''ie dry shade/sun/frost hardy/frost hardy under shade etc?

Hi Sparaxis. The block I am talking about on this thread is where we are currently living, it's in the hills east of Perth, very shaded dry gravel. The retirement block is a 4 hr drive south and is the opposite, no trees to speak of and wet with loam over clay, so I have been told. We are not planing to build on it for at least 5 years, we may start then to have it ready to move into in 7 yrs. We are planing on planting a few trees/shrubs to see how they do over the summer with no additional water. I am really wanting to try to return the block to it's original state as much as possible with us living there....:)..however I am only one of two people who have a say in what goes on there, but (he) is starting to talk like that as well now...:))))) We will pop down there just after settlement (all going well) and talk to the nursery folk there as..sorry I can't remember your name....some one on another thread suggested, then we hope to be able to obtain the plants/trees from the local "Men of Trees" here, they charge .65c per tree for 100 or more, sounds like a good deal and we will be needing those sorts of numbers I would think.

Cheryl.

The trouble with lists of frost hrady and dry hardy plants, is that they vary so much from area to area. Where my parents-in-law live in the wimmera, their sandy soil and lower rainfall means plants like lavender and rosemary will die if they aren't watered, whereas mine are never watered and do extremely well here on my heavier soils, colder climate and higher rainfall. My echiums, which are listed as 'frost sensitive' have been frosted many, many times and are growing like crazy things. I love them.

As for trees - the five acre front of my block is planted out to about 1000 decidious trees. I love them at any time of the year. The silver birches look great in any season, as do the ornamental pears, with their shiny red bark. How would you ever enjoy the twisted limbs of the Scotch elm if the leaves didn't drop off once a year?

We mulch with straw and manure. The large groves of birch trees were not watered through the drought and did very well. We are slowly manuring and mulching every tree. The ones we have done are growing like crazy and need very little attention.

As for water - we don't get town water, so supply our own. I use it however I want to at whatever time of the day I want to. If anyone doesn't like it, come here and tell me face to face. (...and I will squirt you with the hose ;-) You want to save some of the planet's resources? Stop buying pre-prepared food in multiple packaging. Buy 'whole' food only and make your own.

My absolute top plant for dry, un-mulched, un-manured sandy, clay soil? Ornamental grapes. They look good in winter too.

Finally, I have lived, worked and gardened in every outback, stinking hot, dry and impoverished place in Australia. We moved here because of the climate and rainfall and I intend to plant, water, manure and mulch whatever I damn well please. If that offends anyone, as my nephew would say - talk to the eyeballs. Or try gardening in Paraburdoo without watering, mulching or manuring anything and see how much fun gardening can really be!

Robyn

Hi Billy,

You did give me a lot to think about when you spoke about the damage tap water and grey water may do. As I garden on reactive clay I water a little.

I would also be very interested in creating a list of drought resistant plants. I planted several rock lilies this year.

I will start another thread and name a few drought tolerant palnts that seem to thrive here but don't seem to have escaped into the neighbouring reserve.

Shelley

Robyn6014..Sorry I cannot respond to such 'aggression and shooting from the hip...

Shelleyvw
hello Shelley..That is a very positive idea..The planting equation varies so much even in localised area's..If gardeners from all area's were to post small lists of successful plants for no or low water usage I reckon they would be a valuable resource..
Best
Billy

P.S. I find that often the gardener who resists the 'gardeneing for OUR climate' thing to be the type who will DO as they wish without due regard for the bigger 'picture'!
I count myself very 'lucky' to be able to talk to so many gardeners from many area's around Australia when they visit my garden..the best possible way..they and I are talking at the 'coalface'..so too speak!!

dear cheryl west australi regarding your wish to return your property to its original state with original plants. We own a share in a property in country victoria and were able to obtain a government grant to have seeds collected from our place and commercially grown by a nursery. the young plants have been delivered and now have been plantedwhere they originally grew. I wonder if the WA gov has a similar scheme.It might be worth looking into.We have replanted quite a few thousand plants now.I also cherish the view that we should be free to plant what we wish in our gardens

I also cherish the view that we should be free to plant what we wish in our gardens
Mmm whilst the rest of your post was sound..this I am afraid is not so...Do we not have declared noxious weeds etc? (and potential new ones) Many Councils round the country have appointed 'plant' officers to assist ratepayers in the choice of suitable plants for the given area..Whilst I agree in part with the sentiment that we "should be free to plant what we wish in our gardens"..Do you condone the rampant use of water to sustain the unsustainable for private pleasure with no regard for the bigger 'picture'?

wigandia I neither seek nor require your approval for my opinions with regard to noxious weeds obviously it is against council regulations to plant them .so obviously I would not plant them Until it becomes illegal to plant non natives I will continue to do so. I dont feel the need for further justifications.

youngquinn At no point have I suggested native or non- native..I believe in (and plant) plants from all quarters of the globe...Must you be so abrasive?

youngquin...As far as I know there is nothing like that here and in my case it wouldn't be of any use as the land we are purchasing is part of an old farm and the only vegetation is some young trees that the vendor has planted along the creek line and some rushes that I am hoping I can split up and spread out a bit more.

Wigandia...sorry I forgot to answer your question about my present garden dying if I didn't water it, yes I am sure a lot of it would, we are without rainfall for going onto 6 months of the year here now, stretches from Nov through to April with little or no rain at all Dec to March, if we are very lucky we do get the odd shower that usually doesn't penetrate the tree canopy here.

Cheryl.