I was going to say the same as Georgysmom, the nose,ears and chin droop and lips thinner and eyes more reset than when they are younger. Unfortunately they aren't the only things that droop:)

Stacie

I don't think it's the same woman, but possibly related to each other. Color of eyes are different, younger woman has heavier eyelids and brows are closer to eyes. Younger woman has fuller lips, the distance from mouth to bottom of chin are different, nostrils are larger, forehead is wider and longer. I'm into family research and I have come across a few mistakes on old pictures, getting names mixed up between family members.

Yeah it's definitely the same woman...look at her ears, they are exact.

Also if you look at HER left eye lid (at the outside) there is a tiny little scar or some mark...it's in both photos except slightly lower when she's old. The photo is also at a different angle and the younger photo she is looking slightly down which makes the eyelid appear heavier in the young picture.

Keep in mind that people in that era aged a lot harder than we do now. The older person in the first set of pictures may have lost her teeth - that would account for the loss of fullness in the lips/mouth area.

I don't know that having a certain husband would cause the aging look (although it certainly could have some factors) - but the fact that they did not have the modern conveniences, sunscreens, cosmetics, and nutrition that we have now.

Looks to me like the eye color is different. The one on the left has brown eyes and the one on the right has blue eyes.

I think it's the same, also....the eyes show it. I think she probably gained weight, too, so shows that in the jaw area.

for those saying it's the same, how do you account for different eye color?

It's true that her eyes look darker in the first picture, but that could be due to any number of factors, including lighting and retouching. Photography was still relatively primitive at that point. The "brown" eyes look unnaturally dark, with no definition--just a dark circle.

The focus is much softer in the first pic, and the lighting is dimmer, with lots of shadows. In the second, the focus is sharper and the lighting brighter. Her expression is brighter, too, which would account for the different eye shape and the shorter distance between nose and lip. (A little bit of a smile will do that.)

IDK... the scar someone mentioned may be your best bet of figuring it out. Does that show better on the pictures?

Were the names inscribed at the same time... by the same person. Are you thinking they inscribed them wrong or there was a cousin with a similar name? What are going for or thinking? If you can rule in or out the inscription being correct, it would probably be better a guideline than guessing the face.

If it's real important, have you looked up some info and face recognition online? A little research may be able to give you some more scientific things to look for and compare in pictures than we could here.

How old was wife #1 when she passed? How long were they married?

I think it is the same woman in both pics. The shape of the eyebrow is the same. The nose and eyes are the same, only we are looking at it from a different angle in each pic. Ears are the same. Mouth is the only thing that looks a little different, but because pic #1 has shadows it's hard to see the lips.

It sure looks like the same woman to me. I think she is just wide eyed in the second pic because it is closer to a smile. Photography was so simple back there that you could almost blame any discrepancies on the Photographer. As you age, the lips do shrink.........

I think it is the same person also. My eyes appear to change color sometimes depending on light and what I'm wearing. Some people like my dh have eyes that do change color. I've seen his brown, gray, and green.

in addition to what everyone else has said about the matching features, if you look at the visible edges of the hair line, they look the same.

Same woman....same whistful eyes

The inscriptions were done at different times, but here's the puzzle.

I've found many inscriptions that were "written in" with a typewriter. Some of those are right and some are wrong. But these were both "inscribed" in handwriting, and with the other photos, the handwritten inscriptions are 100% correct.

That's what is so puzzling. I *know* the woman in the left photo is Mary Rutherford Wilson, because

1) It's written on the back
2) I found her photo (same photo) in a local history book.

I *think* the woman in the right photo is the same woman (Mary Rutherford) because of the hand-written caption on the back. But - I'm just not 100% sure.

I also noticed that the ears are identical. Someone mentioned a little scar. Where do you see that?

Mary Rutherford died at 37 years old, so the picture on the right can not be more than that. She was married to a man that was not very nice, and that was probably very stressful. And in 1887 (she would have been 30), her little girl died.

Rose

I'm inclined to think it's the same woman due to the ears, jawline, and nose. Rosemary, the scar people are referring to is on the outer upper eyelid of her left eye, you can see it well in the first picture. It definitely looks like some sort of scar or interesting wrinkle.

The only things throwing me off are the eye color and the difference in the skin between her nose and lips. Yes, losing teeth would make a difference but I'm not sure if it would make THAT much of a difference. Her nose and lips are so much closer in that second pic. Are these the only two photos of her you can find?

She is quite an old looking 30 something, isn't she? I would have guessed she was in her 50's in that second photo.

This might sound silly, but this is how I determined my thought that it was the same person. I looked at the pictures...then scrolled on down the page and waited a bit, then I went back and looked at both of them at the same time...sort of so that I got the whole picture instead of looking at one at a time...hard to put into words, but I think it "is" the same person. I have a picture of my grandmother and you would swear it was a picture of an eighty (or more) year old woman...she was fifty when she died...

{{gwi:1857028}}

Above is a circle around the "scar" on both eyes. HTH

I am not sure, looking at the inside of ear looks different, and the bone of the nose looks wider in the right over the left. As for the eyebrow, it seem to be higher in the right one and looks like the brow is penciled in, not natural. Maybe for some reason her brows were thined either naturally or by other means.

Here's a thought: Was Mary Rutherford's mother named Mary Rutherford, too?

I know people looked much older in those days than we do now, but I question whether her nose would have aged so much by 37. Maybe the answer is yes. After all, life expectancy was nothing like what it is today. But I still like my "Mary's mother" theory. :-)

Well look at how different Addie looks in those two pictures and we know that's the same woman. I think the lighting and angle is different and the type of photography is also different(one brown and one is grey tones)...one picture she has a slight smile, the younger she has no smile at all. I know that my mother aged a lot in pictures from her twenties to her thirties. And yes...back then many people only lived to their thirties or forties.

Nope. Mary Rutherford's mother was Elizabeth Rutherford Fargo and Enoch's mother's name was Morella M. Churchell Fargo.

But it was a good thought! :)

When I look at picture #2, I don't recognize that woman as the same woman in the other pictures. If I saw picture #2 off by itself I wouldn't say to myself, that looks like Addie.

But when I look at the other 3 pictures, I recognize them all as Addie.

I'm inclined to agree with Alisande. It's very possible that Mary was named after her mother Mary or even her grandmother Mary or favorite aunt Mary. Although the "Marys" show a resemblance, they don't look like the same woman that has aged. The color of their eyes are different, the bone structure around their eyes is different, the hairline is different, and the area from nose to lip is noticeably longer on the first Mary.

I know you didn't ask for opinions on the two Addie pics but the second picture doesn't necessarily look like she's aged a great deal. For instance, the first pic was made as a wedding photo and seems to be in a controlled setting. The second pic (which as I recall you mentioning somewhere is one that you enlarged a good bit)looks to have been made in an outdoor setting on a sunny day. Addie looks to be squinting into the sun and her hair may have been disheveled from outdoor activity. Photos can easily take on different dimensions with odd distortions and strange shadows when they're enlarged.

Sorry but I don't feel it is the same woman. Her eye shape is too different, including the shape of the socket/brow. The distance between her hose and lip to too altered as is the chin. Her nose is larger on the tip in the second photo and her lips are very thinned.
I agree about the eye colour and it is possible that at that time it could be "the photographer" but that is quite a difference between them for a simple mistake in exposure.
In regards to the scare...aren't they just crows feet?

I don't think it's the same woman, though I think they could be related. ~20 years, even with harder aging, doesn't explain all the features, even at a different angle. To me, the nose looks different. The "older" one is far more hooked in the front and I don't think aging changes cartilage. And the space between the mouth and the nose is too short.

But then again, I've never seen the "abuse" in the two Addie pics that other people see. I see a different age, a different camera angle, a tilted head, squinting eyes and shadow across part of the face. I don't see a receeded hairline or a busted lip.

Well I don't see any reason to doubt it's the same woman...I mean what are the odds that two different women would have the exact same scar and the exact same shape of an ear, the exact shaped nostrils and on and on. I just don't see any facial features that are different other than the eye color and back that long ago, photos were painted. And those that say there's less upper lip, that's simply the angle of the camera. Probably the first picture was her as a teenager anyway. I don't look as old as Mary but I have to say that there's a huge difference in the way I looked from 16 to 37!

In the youth photo, there's a HUGE shadow blocking out the end of her nose, in the elder photo there is no shadow at all. That's the difference in her nose. I just see all the facial lines as being exact.

To me, Addie looks to be the same person in both of her pics. But for Mary, even though there are many similar points, I'm just not thinking it's her in both pics. The older Mary actually looks happier to me.

Was there a reason Mary's hair was so short in the younger version? I didn't know women wore their hair that short in front (and with bangs). I coincidentally happened to have an old picture album in front of me, with many pictures of ladies from the late 1800's --they all had long pulled back hair in the front. What years are you thinking these pics are from?

Mary Rutherford Fargo was born in 1857 and died in 1895, so the time period will have to be somewhere in that range.

I looked it up. I think bangs became popular for a period in the 1880's. My pics must be from before or after 'cause no one is wearing any bangs. (I'm still trying to date my photos). Thought maybe the hairstyles in the pics could have a clue, but guess not...

I like the scar theory too. One of the reasons that the lid looks heavier, is that in the first picture, she is looking a little downward to the left and in the other picture, she is looking upwards towards the left... makes a difference. And when you get older, your eyebrows do get thinner and need the help of a pencil

Look at the ear lobe - they are exact. Different people's ear lobes are different. Just look at the difference between Addie's and Mary's (either picture). In both of the "Mary" pictures the lobes are identical.

For that and other similarities (and explanations) I think it's unquestionable that it's the same person.

DH, a dentist, says that it appears that the older woman has lost her teeth, definitely has no uppers and probably no lowers, which would account for much of the difference in the lower part of her face, including less upper lip and space between mouth and nose.

I'll add my 2 cents. For a moment, forget about Addie and Mary, and the abuse we know Addie suffered. Think about anyone you know today who has either, or both, medical problems on meds causing bloting of the face, and someone who has had their nose broken. A broken nose doesn't have to be crooked, but could have been flatend some. A bloted face, will make the eyes tilt more at the outside edges, and thin the lips.

Personally, between the differnt angle of the photos of Mary, and the bloted face, flatened nose, my opinion is they are the same person. I would like to hear the opinion of our photographers here. I'll have to have my DD take a look at it.

Tami

Ok, well here's another question for. Why are you questioning it? It sounds like if 100% of the other pictures inscribed in handwriting were correct, then this would be too, no? ..especially because the picture does at the least resemble her. (Our opinions/hunches here really don't seem to mean much). Do you not want it to be her? What would it prove one way or the other if it was or wasn't her?

Hi all, I've popped in here and there and dont know the whole story about the research Rosemary is doing, but my opinion is that these two pictures are not the same person. The differences to me are very obvious. The hairline is definitely different. The ear lobe doesnt look the same to me, there is a sharper curve to the bottom lobe closer to the face on the 2nd pic, the nose is definitely different in the shape and nostril area,pic 2 has a sharper tip, more flaring nostrils, our noses elongate, but the shape doesnt change, the upper lip is shorter than in the first picture, lips generally thin, but the top lip thins, i dont believe the bottom lip thins. The picture of the woman, appears to have very very thin lips and there is a cleft in the chin of the 1st woman which is not there in the second woman, this doesnt go away, even with age. Most of all the eye color is different. As for the "scar", it looks like typical crows feet to me and the curve of the crows feet is different in both pictures. As for the pictures of Addie; To me, it is obvious this is the same woman, aged. Her features are the same, ear lobes are the same, shape of eyes, cheeks, chin, all the same. The eyes are the same eyes, but the upper lids are heavier, this happens with age. Ok well, I've added my 4 cents lol.

I didn't want to post earlier because at the time I would have pretty much been the only one who didn't (and still don't) think it is the same person. The "essence" of these two women just aren't the same not to mention her cupid's bow, her nostrils, her eyes (similar, but not the same), her chin and hairline. Probably related though.

Jodi-

I think they are one and the same. Life was hard and women aged quicker then. Ear lobes and noses lengthened.

I think these photos could be of the same woman at different ages. However, since I don't know the dates of these photos, these could be mother-daughter photos as well and the first names could have been the same.

I would say these could be the same person except for one feature: The face in the first photo is fuller than the second causing the 1st face it have a rectangular shape and the second face, oval. But, loss of teeth can cause the face profile to "sink" in.

I don't see the scar mentioned in one of the above posts. This detail appears to me as a natural crease at the end of the eyelid.

The person in the first photo is young, maybe someone who has just completed schooling. I put her age at 16 to 20 yrs old. The second photo shows a woman who has seen the wear and tear of adulthood. I'd put her in the age range of 40 to 55 yrs. She doesn't appear old enough for the age range of 60 to 70.

The first photo is soft focus whereas the second is sharper. The first photo could be a retouched portrait. Blemishes, feackles, and dark zones have been removed. In the process, the eyebrows have almost disappeared (or the young lady plucked those before the photo session). The face is ultra-smooth and some identifying shadows are gone.

Eyebrows: Almost nonexistant in the first photo. Any eyebrows there could be inside the upper ridge of the eye-socket. All I see in my monitor screen is a dark area in the upper part of the eye socket devoid of details. could be the same person, but not good enough details to tell.

Shape and placement of the eye socket: Same in both photos.

Distance between eyes: Same.

Nose shape and size: The shape is the same in both photos. The tip of the nose is a little longer in the second photo. As we age, our noses tends to grow a bit more. e.g., increase in width, etc. The older nose seems consistant with the precieved ages.

Cleft in upper lip under the nose: Same.

Mouth width: Mouth width will vary depending on facial expression, but both faces appear relaxed and mouth widths are the same. Both photo shows a small mouth.

Ears: The outline of the ears are identical. The placement on the head in relation with other parts are the same.

Hair part: This is not a dependable feature as it can change with hair styles, but in older times, people tended to keep the same parting line. The hair psrt line is on center in both photos.

Conclusion: These could be photos of the same person: the first as young woman and the second, a mature aged woman. The one exception is the fullness of the cheeks. The first photo has full cheeks, but this can change with age. With age and weight gain, the cheeks can sag and may appear fuller. This is not evident in the second photo.

These photos could be of the same woman at different ages; If both photos were taken at the same time, or within a few years of each other, these could also be mother and daughter.

Names written on the backs of photos can be in error, although many are accurate. I have found very bad spelling errors on photos while doing genealogy research on my family tree. For unraveling mysteries, it helps to know who wrote on the back of the photo. If it was the parent or the person in the photo, chances are it is accurate. If it was written by someone in a later generation, it could be guess-work on their part, or garbled information that had been passed down verbally. Names entered by reporters of newspapers can be in error.

The woman on the right - if it is Mary Rutherford Fargo - could not be more than 37 years old, because that was her age at time of death.

One hundred years ago, people had a rough life and aged much faster than perhaps we can even imagine today. I can believe that the woman on the right is in her 30s.

And if her husband *was* beating her, she WOULD age much more quickly. The emotional stress alone would take years off her life.

To answer the question - what do I *want* it to be? I'm after the truth, that's all.

I thought y'all might enjoy seeing these old photos and enjoy helping me solve this little mystery. Mary Rutherford Fargo might have met an untimely end, and it'd be nice if we could at least give the old gal proper attribution on her image and likeness.

Thanks very much for all the thoughtful responses. It's pretty interesting to *learn* so much about how to compare two pictures!! I'm good with houses - not so good with faces!

Rose

At first I thought, definitely not the same person. I still look a lot like my high school picture, taken 41 years ago. Then I remembered something from my government training many years ago-a person's most distinctive facial feature is their ear. The ears look identical to me. Then again... read all the opinions above.

No it is not the same woman IMO... the nose is not the same shape at all and the bottom lip to the chin is vastly different. I don't think the eyes bear any similarity either.

OH

MY

GOODNESS.

Those of you who said this was the SAME woman were RIGHT.

I found a "transitional" photograph at the local historical society, and it was closer to the end of Mary's life, and in that photo, you could clearly see that these two photos (shown above) were BOTH pictures of Mary Rutherford.

Wow.

Wow, wow, wow.

Here is a link that might be useful: More about Addie

Mary must have been a very ill woman and that's why she'd aged so soon...didn't she die at age 37 which would explain why she looked old(if she were ill). I didn't ever have any doubt the old and young photo were of the same woman. No two people could have had the same features as those two pictures clearly showed. If you look at the photo at your website of Addie and Annie...that really does not look anything like the other photos of Addie in fact it shows that she has coal black hair and dark eyes which she did not. She was obviously blonde and had lighter eyes as you can tell from all other photos of her. So coloring was not a big thing since photos were often painted way back then as some folks pointed out the difference in the two photos eye colors.

Cool that you found out for sure!

I think it was the ears. Except for the ears I would have said no to both of them, but the ears are the same.

You have found much about Addie;s life from start to finish. You have a wonderful photo record. Most genealogists would be happy with the amount you have found. Its just that you do know how she died.

Have you scoured local newspapers around the time of her death? Is there a death certificate at the court house? Was there a disease epidemic in that time period?

If Addie died during winter, a hand dug grave in frozen ground may have been shallow especially if it was on private property rather than a public cemetery.

I have a record of an ancestor of mine who died in winter. The family was unable to dig a proper grave in frozen soil so the body was put outside to freeze. He was buried about a month after death - a real stiff!

Y'all need to read that blog. :)

Addie was buried in June. No excuse for a shallow grave, except the fact that she was buried in a hurry in the wee hours, and her husband and/or attending physician did not follow legal procedures of the time, requiring a burial permit. One of the reasons for these "legal procedures" was to achieve uniformity in burial practices.

The fact that there was no burial permit for Addie was a big red flag. The fact that her doctor LIED (on the death certificate) and said there *was* a burial permit was another big red flag.

She allegedly died of diphtheria, but that was just a bad lie. There were no cases of diphtheria in Lake Mills in 1901, or so said Addie's doctor in his report to the state four months after Addie's death.

I've read the newspapers for that time period, and I've also read the reports from the state board of health. No diphtheria anywhere NEAR Addie's city.

I've done my research. :)

Addie did not die of diphtheria.

If you want to learn why that's so, read the link below.

It is a fascinating story, and I have learned a WHOLE lot, due in large part to the kindness of others, and their love of the truth. Everyone wants to know what happened to 29-year-old Addie Hoyt, and so many people want to help, and that's been a blessing.

Thanks for the comments.

Rose

Here is a link that might be useful: Diphtheria? No way.