That is sad. Maybe they should have closed the doors and not let anyone in for 24 hours. I did not go, buy my DD did and she said people were really grouchy.

I hope the store cameras were able to see what person or persons trampled that poor man to death and charge him/them with murder. The "follow the herd" mentality of people never ceases to amaze me. There is NO excuse for people acting that way.

I just heard on the news that the two men in Toys R Us shot each other.

So sad about the man who got trampled too.

It's crazy out there. I don't know what is wrong with the mentality of some people today.

Yeah, I read on MSNBC that after the shoppers were told that a man had died and they were closing the store, many refused to leave. They said they'd been waiting on line since the day before, and they kept shopping.

I would think if there was a death involved, the police would close the store down while they investigate. I never shop on Black Friday, except today I went to Home Depot for a new leaf rake. It wasn't too crowded and they had lots of staff around.

People are so greedy!! I don't know why they have these stupid sales. They run out of the big deals and I would think that everyone shopping would be so ticked off they would just want to get out of the store - not stay and shop around.

Guess I'm old and grumpy.

How horrible. And then for some people to refuse to leave? What is wrong with people? :( I agree, that if they can tell who was the cause of the mans death, that person should be charged with murder.

DH and I went to a couple of stores this afternoon when he got home from work. It wasn't REAL bad. No one seemed grumpy, at least not the ones that I came in contact with. I imagine that it is unreal first thing in the morning though.

We were too late though and the thing that we wanted was sold out BUT we were able to get a rain check so that was good.

Yep, this is one reason I did all my shopping on-line and usually do every year.

THis is really sad. People are greedy.

You couldn't pay me enough or be giving away free stuff to get me into a store in the early hours of Black Friday. It's ridiculous. No sale is that good.

I totally agree, Steph.

I totally agree with all of you. How sad for that poor mans' family. They said he was hired temp. for the holidays.
Maybe with the way the economy is he took this job so that he could have a nice Christmas with his family, who knows?
But now look what they have to go through. Why do people put so much value on material things? I can't even stand it.
This story has just made me sick. I hope that every person that seen that happen, has many sleepless nights. They should be so ashamed.

This is horrible and it makes me sick. Those people should be so ashamed of themselves, a man is dead because they wanted to save a few bucks.

I'm sure that Wal-Mart will be blamed for it all, even though it was the customers who killed him. Unless retailers figure out a way to change the madness, this is probably not the last time something like this will happen, at some store, somewhere. Maybe if more people stopped shopping on Black Friday, the retailers wouldn't be so quick to slash their prices so early in the shopping season. It's becoming insane.

in defense of the people who did the trampling...I want to tell you I've been in a situation like that before...but no one was hurt.

There was a store closing in Omaha several years ago...EVERYTHING was going really really cheap.

My aunt and I got there early and were right in front of the doors. The doors opened out...
When they unlocked the door the crowd all the way to the back just started moving. You had no choice but to start moving your feet or fall down.

So in the Walmart deal...those first people who went through and trampled the guy probably had no control.

I had never been in anything like that before. I was pregnant and didn't intend to fall...I grabbed my aunt's arm to help her so she didn't fall.

I'll never do that again...Never!!!!

patti

I don't understand mob mentality. I guess that's why I avoid crowds like that.

I heard on the news last night that a pregnant woman in that same Wal-Mart was knocked down and miscarried.

Pattico, I too was in a dangerous crowd surge situation where nobody died. It's scary. You have no control.

This was at a concert. The crowd surge happened with people leaving. People were allowed to take their seats early in the day so everyone filtered in. When it ended there was only one main entrance for every one to leave at once. The funnel effect.

It was thousands of people. What happens is you get pushed forward by a wall of people. There is a force that comes in waves. I was being squeezed so tight my lungs couldn't expand to breath. Nobody behind me could back up. Nobody was going forward. My arms were tight at my side. I was panicking. As the crowd surges I lost my balance because my feet weren't even really touching the ground any more and I went down. The crowd surge immediately filled the empty space over me. It wasn't their fault. It was a wave of other people who also were being pushed from behind. They were trying to keep their balance too. I was getting stepped on. Some of the people stepping on me were the people I was with. They were being pushed by the crowd surge. I was thinking about the Who concert incident, and thought I was going to die.

Somehow I clawed and struggled to get up and someone reached down to help me up.

After getting out of the gate into the other area. People were standing around bawling and crying. Everyone was so shook up.

If you read the report on the Who concert incident you will see interviews where people said they were standing on someone but they could not move to get off of them. They have no choice. They got pushed onto the person. They could not go anywhere to get off of them.

I'm not defending all the people in the crowd at Walmart. After all it took some selfish persons to get the ball (crowd) rolling and create the crowd surge. The whole story about the incident is sad on so many levels.

"I'm sure that Wal-Mart will be blamed for it all, even though it was the customers who killed him."

Well, WalMart's definitely need to share the blame.

That incident would not have happened if that WalMart would have longer hours (so that everyone does not show up en masse) and more inventory (not just a few for the 'doorbusters') and better crowd control (other stores control the crowd outside with personnel/a ticket system/separation for departments, etc.).

BTW, this was not some rowdy concert this happened at. It was a Beach Boys concert with a lot of older people and happy upbeat music played. I just thought I'd add that in case anyone assumed I got what I deserved for attending a Black Sabbath or Ozzy concert.

Yes dilly_dally....unless you have been in one of those crowds and you know what happens....it would be easy to "assume"....

Its like the old saying about not judging a person until you walk a mile in their shoes.

But I will say that ALL of the stores that do those kinds of sales....(Big bargains if you get here early) should rethink having them anymore...Or like someone said...have more than just 10 of the advertised items)

patti

What a ridiculous tragedy! It said on our news here that the Toy's r Us shooting was over some item that there was only one left of - honestly is any toy worth a human life?
Maybe these stores should set up these sale days where the first 15 people in line get in for 1/2 and hour, then the next 15 and so on.
Absolutely heartbreaking about the poor man at Walmart - and the pregnant lady. Just one more reason why I never go to sales like that - there is nothing in this world I need that badly.
Suzan J

We had a 4 a.m. opening at a local Wal-mart once, and when the staff saw how many people were outside, they called the police for crowd control, and refused to open the doors. The police lined them all up, and only let 10 in at a time, in single file. They were pissed! but nobody got hurt.

Regarding the TOYS R US incident..Who goes out shopping with a gun?? There wasn't one armed man but two...there maybe more to that story than just a fight over a toy..but a fight over a toy sounds better to the rumor mill...

Regarding walmart..The woman didn't lose her baby..she did go to the hospital but checked out OK according to several new sources...It is a tragedy that the man had to die..I hope the police can find whoever was responsible and there is no excuse for the "WHY SHOULD I STOP SHOPPING BECAUSE SOMEONE DIED" mentality..

Our Walmart allows people in starting at midnight...but don't allow them to check out with the deals until 6. They keep some of the larger items, aka better deals in the back until closer to 6 and then they bring out a few at a time..which allows some folks to get their items and then move on out of the way.

I did go out shopping, I have to save money on Christmas some how...if it wasn't for my children there wouldn't even be Christmas this year..any way..when I saw Walmart so crowded I went to the mall..No lines, easy in, easy out. We went to Lowe's most were in their cars waiting for the doors to open. No pushing or shoving once they did..No standing in line for ever waiting to be checked out..Then on to Wal Mart, by the time I got there....most everyone was gone, found the deals I wanted and then went straight to the register and on home..It wasn't all crazy and hatred..

So tragic.

I have no desire to shop on Black Friday at all.

What Pattico said:

"Pattico, I too was in a dangerous crowd surge situation where nobody died. It's scary. You have no control.
This was at a concert. The crowd surge happened with people leaving. People were allowed to take their seats early in the day so everyone filtered in. When it ended there was only one main entrance for every one to leave at once. The funnel effect.

It was thousands of people. What happens is you get pushed forward by a wall of people. There is a force that comes in waves. I was being squeezed so tight my lungs couldn't expand to breath. Nobody behind me could back up. Nobody was going forward. My arms were tight at my side. I was panicking. As the crowd surges I lost my balance because my feet weren't even really touching the ground any more and I went down. The crowd surge immediately filled the empty space over me. It wasn't their fault. It was a wave of other people who also were being pushed from behind. They were trying to keep their balance too. I was getting stepped on. Some of the people stepping on me were the people I was with. They were being pushed by the crowd surge. I was thinking about the Who concert incident, and thought I was going to die."

I was in a similar situation, with a MUCH smaller crowd, at the movies in college. Add to that, the fact that I'm sort of short, and my friend in front of me was MUCH shorter (it probably looked like a gap to the people behind me, so they pushed harder, probably), we were being pushed DOWN, and losing our balance.

I finally yelled out, something about, "Stop shoving, there's a person in front of me, someone's going to get hurt," and the pressure from behind stopped. But I'm sure it wasn't even the people directly behind ME who were pushing.

Maybe, maybe, there were people 20 or 30 layers back who *were* pushing, but it would be hard to identify them.

I think that store bears a huge part of the blame. The Who concert should have taught them something; they should have had stronger line control.

There's plenty of blame to go around. Let's not forget the employee who "as a joke" went out and told the people the store would be opening early because of the crowd, then said, just kidding! Talk about inciting a riot. After waiting all night I'd be pretty upset about something like that too. Then the crowd started pushing, knocked the doors off and essentially broke in.

I'm not one to defend Walmart on a lot of things, but they took reasonble precautions. You can't be expected to foresee this type of thing. Nobody likes it or wants it. But as said, having been through BF shopping before, I won't be doing it again. I didn't even leave the house to go to the grocery store. I know how people are on the roads and didn't want to be facing the traffic with people like this.

And the thing is, these sales aren't that great anyway from what I saw. An LCD tv for $600. Big deal. You can buy a better plasma version for $50 more and no tax and it would be shipped to your house! A movie for $2. Who cares? Rent it!

Shoppers.... what more can I say!