I hate hunting. :( I've always wondered why it's okay to shoot animals for population control but if we did the same thing to humans it would be murder. I find the life valuation and justification scales to be interesting considering we are the ones that caused animal overpopulation in the first place. Makes me feel bad for the poor things just trying to live.

Here's to hoping your new friend survives. :)

It breaks my heart when I see my deer friends come by, knowing that they may not survive hunting season. Our next-door neighbors hunt on their property, and I cringe when I hear a gunshot.

DH and I "shoot" all our critters when we get a chance...with a camera.

I know how you feel, I am the same. This weekend we will make the rounds around our property and make sure it is all posted. Between our 2 neighbors and us we end up with about 100 acres that is a safe haven.

Sleeper = they are beautiful creatures but they turn ugly really quick with my car. Truthfully they need to go. We have way too many. Besides, I know lots of people that need the meat. I know it's hard for some people to believe but yes, there are tons of people that depend on hunting to feed their family. I'm glad I'm not one of them. I don't much like venision.

It is sad to me also...we have a very nice 12 point buck we see seldom, I'm sure his time is up soon with it being hunting season. I keep thinking he is huge so maybe not too careless! Hoping anyways!

Oh Geesh!!! I read your post earlier, and I thought it said a handsome DUCK!! Hahahahaa.

Then I wondered what duck had to do with the venison that scissors mentioned.

But oh, so true, it's sad. I don't know of any hunters, and seeing the deer; both bucks and does with fawns at the edge of the woods in fields is just breathtaking.

Jasdip, you made me laugh, thanks!

Scissors, I know they need to go. They are very dangerous here in the Northwoods. I haven't hit a deer yet this year, but I have had two deer/car collisions and my DH has had 3. It's not because we are careless drivers, either. They literally jump out in front of cars. People die from deer/car/motorcycle collisions every year around here.

DH and his family hunt on 80 acres he bought. We use the meat.

I know what you mean. This spring, two does showed up with their three babies, and the fawns practically grew up on our property. As a result, they're way too tame around humans. If I'd thought about this, I would have figured out a way to make myself more threatening to them.

Now hunting season looms, and my neighbors are all hunters. Lately a couple of bucks have been coming around, no doubt for the apples, which are still falling off our trees. The bucks aren't tame, but of course they're desired by hunters. (The more points, the manlier the hunter? Something like that.) I'm afraid "my" fawns, grown now, are going to be easy prey.

{{gwi:1851675}}

I don't even want to get started on the hunting thing! Around here, "hunters" sit at the trucks, send their dogs into the woods, then jump out to shoot the deer when the dogs run them out. That's hunting? Nah!

I've seen many deer carcasses tossed after only the choice cuts were taken.

If I were to see people actually HUNTING, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Sorry, I also hate hunting. Yeah there may be a few ethical hunters out there, but there are also many neanderthals too. Some want only the biggest with the larges rack, just to hang the head on their wall. "See what man I am?" Others just kill and leave the animal to rot in the woods. This past weekend some people who live in the country, had their German Shepard dogs shot by hunters. I say maybe it's time for a season for hunting hunters. When we lived in the country so our dogs didn't have to be fenced or tied up, I let it be known that if anything happened to our dogs by hunters, they better start looking over their shoulders, because in one way or another, I would get even with them.

My late father LOVED hunting. He occasionally shot a pheasant or two, once a rabbit (poor bunny) but never any deer. My Mom said Dad just liked being outdoors with the guys, he really wasn't that interested in shooting and killing. He took me with him once, when I was about 7. I remember walking around in the snow. The next day (Monday at school) I wrote an essay about going hunting with my Dad. My teacher (Mrs. Hesch) was so impressed , she sent me to the Principal (Mr. Swanny) to have him read my story. I was so proud! One of my favorite memories.

I live with a hunter and he got a doe about 2 weeks ago. As much as I don't like hunting, he is the most ethical I think anyone could be in regards to hunting.
He absolutely respects land boundaries, will not shoot a young buck...will not shoot a doe if he thinks she has little ones. He never baits. He prefers archery season because of the challenge and he won't shoot if it is more than 30 yards and can be a sure kill.
He despises hunters that think they need to take long shots...he has had to put down more than one over the years that he found injured by a poor shot.
We clean and use all the meat. All I ask of him is that I do not have to see the deer - only the meat.
I had to swallow hard with this one though...he could not get in the truck and I had to go help. (Not fun for me at all....and I got a tick that I am now taking antibiotics for and poison ivy!!)

As far as population control, I understand the necessity.
Animals can overpopulate very quickly. Then, not only is there not enough food, but disease can spread. Humans are equipped to deal with hunger and diesease.
Additionally the problems of running into the road and getting hit are a terrible outcome for the deer. Please be aware that right now (at least for another week or so) is prime time for deer to run in the road. The bucks are chasing the doe...at least in PA

All-in-all I can get my head around hunting...I still dont like it and I get sad when I see them in the wild... big brown eyes...I could be a vegetarian in a heartbeat if I lived alone...

Sal, my DH is just like yours. He loves bow season, and goes out every night and sits in a tree. Only once has he shot a deer in all the years while bow hunting. He just won't take a young doe or buck, he's out there for an older buck. We use the meat. He just loves being out in nature and watching all the activity.

Around here everyone hunts, and I don't know anyone who is not ethical. I'm sure they are out there, but I don't know any of them.

Alisande, I hope your deer friends make it through the hunt.

I hate hunting also but I understand the necessity of deer hunting. Many motorists on the highways here hit deer. My dad used to occasionally hunt pheasants or doves, I can't remember which. He would bring them home and put them in the kitchen sink for my mom to clean! I still remember the awful smell and how much my mom disliked having to clean them but that was what good wives did in the 40s and 50s

I hate hunting and that's why my three years living in the country were a nightmare for me. Never again. I question how anyone could kill animals for the pure enjoyment of watching them die..seeing the light go out of their eyes. So I always cheer when the deer gets a hunter..only fair , I say. After all the deer aren't armed. One hunter this week shot a deer but before the deer died, he gored the hunter so it was curtains for him as well. Karma is a B-TCH.

There's a herd that needs to be culled and it isn't DEER! UGH! 7 billion? WTH????

It's rutting season. We're seeing deer again after not seeing any for a couple of months. The does appear to be trying to hide from the bucks. They all come to the creek beside our house.

Years ago when we were living closer to the city we were wakened one morning by loud clacking sounds. Two bucks were competing, head to head, on our postage stamp sized front lawn. (A shopping plaza and the Edens Expressway were half a mile away, but also the chain of forest preserves.)

Wow, Lily. Nobody said all hunters are out there for the pure enjoyment of watching something die. Quite the opposite...Most are very humane, hoping - trying for a quick, painless end.
I know my hunter for sure, offers a prayer of thanks when he harvests a deer.
I hope you are a vegetarian...if not I would like to invite you to a slaughter house. There is a chicken plant not far from me...tractor trailors everyday deliver thousands of chickens that have never been out of the cage they are in...by the end of the day they are nuggets, breast, thighs and drumsticks.

Salgal..I am a vegetarian and am quite aware of the atrocities in slaughterhouses. One reason, other than health why I haven't had meat in 30 years, You do know animals have attachments to their herd and off spring and grieve when they die and are terrified by the guns, dogs and chaos suddenly thrust on them.

Lily, please don't misunderstand me...I would save all the animals if I could. My goal is always to be as humane as possible and always thankful
I do believe animals grieve. We see it all the time when a pet loses a housemate. We see horses, cows and sheep pair off - often more than one can't seem to get along. I have no reason to believe wild animals are any different.
Slaughterhouses make me ill...literally.
I cry and say a little prayer every time I see a chicken truck.
I cried a little for the doe that we butchered. But I will also remember her when I nourish myself.
It is a delicate balance in my head...admittedly one I struggle with.

We have 135 acres in the forest of NE Pennsylvania and the deer have nearly decimated our woodlands. What was once a mixed hardwood forest with some plots of hemlock is now slowly turning into mostly white pine because the deer have overbrowsed the understudy. We can't even find any young chestnut oak which is our dominant hardwood and a wonderful producer of acorns. Pignut hickory and beech are also disappearing. I certainly don't fault the deer. There are just too many.

We've had foresters from Yale's School of Forestry walk our property and their recommendation is that our woods are have been seriously impacted and can only sustain 2 deer - not 2 per acre - but 2 deer for the total 135 acres.

The state itself is primarily to blame with their odd hunting regulations. They have begun to increase the number of doe licenses. We have a special permit to hunt 12 doe each year on our property in an effort to reduce the size of the herd and to allow for a healthier growth of brush and trees which in the long term will also benefit the deer. However some of our neighbors also feed the deer and some are so tame some will eat kernels out of your hands.

I don't have any problems with ethical deer or turkey hunters. My brother often hunts and even though we have all of those extra permits he usually only gets one or two doe a year. We finally asked one of the game wardens who lives near us to hunt on our land.

Speaking of bucks and the rutting season - in the 15 years we've owned this rural property we've never had a close call with any deer hitting our cars. But just last week my husband's car was hit by a buck running across 5 lanes of highway on his way to work in a suburb of Philadelphia. We got the estimate yesterday - over $4000. Luckily he wasn't hurt.

One of the most influential people in my life was my high school English Lit teacher. He was probably the most popular teacher in the entire school. Students clamored to get into his classes. I was lucky I had him twice. He often told stories from his own life. When he was a young man, he went bow hunting and shot a deer. He and his group of hunters followed the trail of blood and found the poor thing collapsed on the ground but still alive. He "finished off" the deer with his hunting knife. He said it was the worst experience of his life and never hunted again. He said he never forgot the look in its' eyes.

Hunters and hunters' kin always comment on the need to cull the herd for the good of the herd. Ok, I get that and am not disputing it. However, I don't believe that the majority of hunters are out there for the good of the herd....to make sure that the deer don't die from starvation or whatever. That all sounds well and good and noble. But I don't believe it.

I think the majority are out there because they enjoy it! I sincerely don't understand the personality that take pleasure in taking a life.

I think that, in most cases, the "it's for the good of the deer population" is a crock. It's a cover for "I love killing things and this is a way to make it look like I'm doing it out of the goodness of my heart".

Again, I'm not debating hunting. I'm questioning the reasoning behind it. For those that depend upon venison or the hunted for food, Ok, I get that. But really - hunters enjoy hunting and killing. Don't try to promote it as a noble gesture. Just fess up and admit that you/they like it for what it is ... killing. Do you really think that anyone believes that the hunter hates to be out there and is only doing it because "it needs to be done"? C'mon.

I've known people who say that it's fun to outwit the animal, given the animals' keen sense of smell and hearing. Ok, I understand. But not once has any of those people said that they stop there ... they always have to kill the animal.

I just don't get the personality that likes to kill.

There's a difference and we all should know it. Killing a human is murder, legally killing an animal is legal, but it should also be recognized that illegally killing an animal is a crime. Not murder, but then again, eating an animal is legal, while eating a human is not legal, at least not in this country. So let's be realistic enough to know there's differences.

Dotmom, I disagree with you on dogs. I have a big problem with people thinking that just because they live "in the country" they can let their dogs run loose all the time to go bite neighbors, run in front of cars and cause accidents (my brother & his wife were injured in an accident swerving to avoid a dog running loose in the country - I said he should have made a Rover-road pizza, but I digress). Dogs also are known to kill livestock and go after wildlife. No, you can't, or aren't supposed to let them run loose. Dogs running loose are a big problem anywhere. First, they're often unvaccinated ("I live in the country - my dog doesn't need shots") and I needn't say the problem there. Dogs kill a lot of deer every year but there's seldom any sadness about that. "Oh, Rover and Daisy can't be on a leash!" If I see a dog chasing a deer, I'd shoot the dog and let the irresponsible owner throw a tantrum if they want. I'd venture a guess those shepherds about which you spoke could well have been doing things they shouldn't and were killed for a reason. As much as I like dogs, I also know that dogs are destructive and it's legal, possibly encouraged, in this state to kill a dog that's chasing wildlife and it's the right thing to do IMO. Dogs are far more likely to kill and leave the carcass lay (or dying, since dogs often go more for a takedown than an actual "kill") than is an ethical hunter. I won't go into unethical hunters any more than to go into ax murderers, or thieves. And loose dogs tend to pack up and attack animals together. So don't assume that the death of that deer that was outside your window yesterday will be from a hunter. If you let your dogs run loose, you stand a chance of losing them. Keep them on your own property and let them kill, wound and harass wildlife on your own property.

Hunting is a controversial topic and I appreciate different views and a good discussion. But I like to bring out more than a limited view too.

Let's also not loose sight of the fact that deer are destructive animals too. They destroy a lot of gardens, trees and damage a lot of crops.

Also, let's not lose sight that most every creature has predators and yes, we humans are predators. We kill plants, we kill animals to say nothing of each other. We do it for food and we do it for sport, like most all animals. Wolves, coyotes, etc do it more for food, but also for sport whereas dogs do it for sport rather than food.

One last thought that is so often ignored. The animals are healthy and overpopulated and why is that? It wasn't that long ago (I can remember the time) when deer were suffering, starving and scrawny and more. Fish were becoming nearly extinct. Lakes were dying so they couldn't support fish and yes people kill fish too. Sports groups (I'm sure there'd be flak if I said "sportsmens" groups) have done a lot to help the habitat for a lot of fish, game and other wildlife. Yes to improve hunting and fishing is part of it but also there's other reasons. Most sportspeople like to see healthy wildlife. Few like to see animals suffer. They put a lot of time and money into habitat, feed and cover to protect them in the winter. Conservation Reserve programs dedicate lands to feed and protect the wildlife. It's not some wild-eyed hunter blasting bullets willy-nilly. There is some planning that goes into it. And often the cost of helping this wildlife is from the hunters' pockets, not from taxes. And yes, I've contributed a lot to habitat protection and development. I have 40 acres of land that promotes habitat and BTW, hunting is prohibited on it. Not all of us are Neanderthals in a derrogatory sense, though many of us are Neanderthals in a complimentary sense! :D

Dislike hunting if you wish, but I hope you'll be educated on some of the facts please and not just go on hysteria. And put some blame where it belongs, not just on a convenient target. To quote Frank Bartles "Thank you for your support!"

I think it's just a difference in how people are wired. Some people aren't bothered at all by hunting, others can't stand it. Some think it's luxurious to wear full-length fur, others think it's murder. Some will go into debt to save a beloved pet, others will put the pet down. There's a huge spectrum of individual ethics and morals when it comes to animals.

For me, personally, I'm equally if not more upset hearing about an animal suffering or dying as I am about a person, even a child. It's just how I am and I'm not going to apologize for it. There's just something about the innocence of animals that really gets to me. I don't believe they are put here solely as food and clothing for humans. I've been a vegetarian since I was old enough to understand what meat really means.

I do, however, have far more respect for people who hunt for their food then people who go to the grocery store and buy their meat in tidy little packages. Saying you don't believe in animal abuse and then continuing to support the slaughterhouses is the epitome of hypocricy. That's not aimed at anyone in particular but at society in general.

If people still hunted solely to feed their families, and if slaughterhouses didn't exist, I would have no problem with people eating meat. It's the endless cycles of cruelty that exist because people want inexpensive meat 3 times a day and they definitely don't want to get it themselves. If people had to actually kill their food themselves, there would be FAR more vegetarians. :)

We live in a fairly densely, suburban town of about 20,000.
average lot size is less then an acre.

We have a real deer problem.

At night, you never know when a deer will run out of bushes, and across a residential street.
They have no fear of people or cars, and we have found them on our back yard.
I love animals, but disagree with the local laws that say they can't be killed by poison or birth control.
We are too densely populated for a shoot.

There is something called "food chain", which also encompasses other needs besides food. The lowest level is the provider for the higher levels.
WE are the highest on the food chain, and other species can, in the world of natural law, contain or kill lower levels.

Morally we are NOT the highest on the food chain. I think people who get their kicks from killing animals are not anyone I'd want to know. My father and his generation hunted, but he only killed small animals like squirrels until three year old me went hysterical seeing the dead squirrels. He stopped hunting then. I never dated hunters, my husband never fired a gun and of course my son doesn't hunt and our whole family is vegetarian. It's the healthy humane way to live. Don't pick up the tidily wrapped pack of meat unless you yourself would kill the animal. There should be a video of the slaughterhouse on every pack of meat sold.

Lily, my opinion is that you are way out of line. Hunters aren't serial killers, for pete's sake. They don't rush to the site of the kill just to watch the light go out of the animal's eyes. And that Karma is b##ch statement is reprehensible.

It sounds as if you practice what you preach, if you are indeed a vegetarian. Good for you. Sorry, but I enjoy meat and I love the sausage DH makes from his venison. I just hate the fact that if someone in my husband's hunting party were hurt, either by a deer or another hunter, you would rejoice. That's sick.

Just because you have the capability to kill things doesn't mean that you should. Yes, humans are towards the top of the food chain but using that argument to justify mass production of food or wearing fur for fashion or hunting for sport is exactly what is wrong with the world today. Just because we can raise meat cheaply, and because we can chop down forests for subdivisions and because we can drill for oil, and have as many kids as we want and we can all drive 2 SUV's per household doesn't mean we should.

Because what we end up with is a world of entitlement filled with pollution, depleted of natural resources, driving animal species to endangered or extinct status and celebrating the cycle of abuse to produce our food just because we can. And while that may sound like hysterics coming from something as simple as a piece of chicken, it's all connected.

That being said, I wouldn't cheer when someone is hurt hunting. But then again, I also feel that humans who enter the wilderness with known predators are picking their own fate. Nature can be cruel.

Woody hunts and we eat the meat. I won't bother telling you how ethical he is because it will fall on deaf ears. He also fishes and eats them. How come no one ever feels sorry for the poor fish or wild turkeys? He LOVES being out in the woods, even though we live in the middle of them.

We also feed the deer year round but not as bait, we do it because we like to see them and we know they have a tough time out in the woods. Just like we feed the birds and squirrels.

And we've raised 2 fawns to adulthood and I doubt that anyone loves deer more than we do. One disappeared one spring when he was 4 years old and the female was shot by a hunter when she was almost 6. She wouldn't wear a collar so she was fair game. We were very sad but don't hate all hunters because of it.

Well I do not post often. But I felt the need to post on this. My husband is a hunter. He has been since he was a child and although I could never kill anything. Lets just say I am the lady people always seem to be bringing birds squirrel's, to may feral kittens and many other critters to count over the yrs to save or rehabilitated. Over these yrs my husband and children have always been the ones to help me out. For anyone who has ever taken in wild babies. You know it is not cheap or easy. Well as my children are now almost grown one of my sons is also a hunter. This yrs alone my husband has gotten 2 bucks and 2 doe. My son has also gotten a buck and a doe. Where I live it as about population control. People are only allowed so many tags for each gender. It is very regulated here. Farmers are losing crops, people are getting into accidents and also if the herd is not controlled they will starve in the winter. But somewhat getting of the subject that wanted to make me post in the first place. My Husband and son never just kill for the fun. We do eat all the meat and what we cannot we give to people who need it. The fact that someone posted that hunters must take enjoyment in the kill and will kill anything made me very angry. My son would be the first as a child and now to help me save any wild life we have taken in. My husband has also been at work many times and found abandoned animals. Sometimes the parents have been taken by fox or fisher cats. So please do not assume to put all hunters into one lump sum. I am sure there are many bad hunters. But the are the minority not the majority. So please think before you say hurtful things you know nothing about.

Bebet, the reason people post the things they do is because they are ignorant.

Flamingo, you are right, it will probably fall of deaf ears.

Some people are so hypocritical, spouting off about the depletion of natural resources, pollution, overpopulation, etc. And yet they live a life that BY IT'S VERY EXISTENCE is contributing to all of the above mentioned problems.

Let's just let this thread die. I should have known it would lead to this.

OK, friend Cynic...we'll have to agree to disagree about the dogs.

What I would like to ask the 'hunters' if it isn't the thrill of the kill....why do they want to have seasons to kill more and more creatures? Now we have a season on Doves !! How much meat does one get off that little gentle bird? An ounce or two. Then they want to be able to shoot coyotes and wolves. I would like to see the recipes on how they cook them....that is, if it really is for the meat, as they claim.

Gentle doves come to my feeder and are so tame I can almost hand feed them. So yes, how much meat is there on a dove? So it IS about the thrill of killing. ..And I have been a wild animal rehabber for years now as well as a volunteer for cat rescue. My own animals are all rescues. I have raised countless skunks, opossums, raccoons and squirrels and released them back in the wild. One squirrel didn't leave and I still hand feed him when he visits. Thankfully I live in a town where he can't be shot. They wanted to extend hunting season here to Sunday, but it was shot down..pardon the pun. We non hunters would like to walk in the woods at least one day of the week with out fear of getting killed..

Wow this has been an um interesting post. One big difference in people's thinking is if they are in a rural or urban area imho

Stacie

Deer around here are cropping a number of endangered plant species to extinction ... in a provincial park, where they are trying to protect endangered species.

Overpopulation is a great problem, exacerbated by the humans and their agricultural ways.

If you hate to see an animal suffer ... try to find a way to follow one of the far too many deer in an area, through the ravages of a hard winter, when it is hugely cold ... can't find enough to eat ...and sometimes has to fight others of its kind for the sparse food that is available. To get a small inkling of it, visit an area where it gets down to 10 degrees below zero, try sleeping in your car for a few nights, without using any heater and with sparse food in the days between. Or, better yet, out in the open, and it's O.K. if you go into the forest to get out of the wind, as that's what the deer do. No blankets, though, if you please: how many blankets do the deer get? You get your regular clothing, plus a bit extra to parallel the thickening of the deer's coat prior to winter.

As for humans shooting/killing one another ... we've been doing that for more than centuries: it's called war. And we've gotten really good at it. One modern bomber can carry tons of bombs and, if dropped in an efficient manner, the load carried by that one bomber in just one trip can kill hundreds, maybe thousands (or, how about 100,000 plus with one bomb?).

We hear about how many of "our guys" were killed ... but how often do we hear any reference to even an estimate of enemy casualties?

Surely we should expend substantial time, energy and money at seeking ways to deal with our differences without resorting to such a remedy!

ole joyful

Excellent post Joyfulguy.

My husband is a hunter, he's a good hunter, so are the other two guys at the camp. And they have passed those traits and respect for life along to the boys (who are now men) that they took over there with them and who will one day take over the camp. One of the fellas, Barry, has been going to that camp since he was 7 years old, he is 65. A few years ago he shot a deer, when he got to it the poor thing was dying but not yet dead, it cried....so did Barry. I never thought I see that day, but he didn't get another deer for 3 years. First time that happened since he was old enough to have a license. I don't think that is a coincidence.

I guess there is a huge difference between everywhere else in PA and here in the Laurel Highlands because we do not have an over abundance of deer. The state is permitting way too many licenses to be awarded. We had herds, HERDS, of deer that were on our property. Herds of 8, 10, 12 deer would move thru our fields daily. Now I see a herd of 3 or 4 a time or two a week. I hate hunting but I do understand it. I hate hunters who do not respect the animal they are hunting. I hate hunters who choose to go to deer camp and party and then hit the woods. They are idiots. And I hate hunters who cannot read. Every year my two neighbors and I don our hunter's orange and head out on quads to patrol our posted property. Because hunters cannot read.

Hypocritical? I assume you are referring to me Sleeperblues because you're quoting what I wrote. Of course every single person who lives contributes to the problem. Even the most low-impact-minded person will leave some sort of footprint. I never once said I don't have a footprint, because while I do my best to minimalize it, I do. Everyone does.

My point was that our civilization has evolved to a "I want it bigger, better and cheaper" mentality that has completely destroyed a lot of the natural habitat. Part of the reason there is an overpopulation problem with some species is because there's a lack of predators from a lack of habitat. Wolves and bears don't roam around like they did 100+ years ago. Nature has a nice balance when left unmolested to do it's thing. But when we interfere with our lifestyles we change that balance and hunting seems to be one of the corrective measures. And that is what makes me sad. We have to kill to fix the problem we helped create.

I am not saying I am faultless. But unless I cease to exist, I don't really have any other options. Being aware of the problem is not the same thing as being ignorant. And as I've been saying from the beginning, there is a big difference to me between someone who hunts for food and someone who kills for fun. I have never generalized into saying every hunter is evil but there ARE some who hunt for the thrill of the kill. Those are the ones I have the problem with. Not the people who genuinely feel they are helping by feeding their family or helping their environment.

I'm sorry that your thread evolved into something you disagree with but hunting seems to bring out the passion in people. It's hard to SOB posts if you have an emotional attachment to the subject.

Just curious if anyone that says they hate the killing ever wears a leather coat or has owned a leather chair/sofa? Carry a leather purse?? Come on, let's get real here.

No, I don't own anything that is made of leather.

Chi, I respect your opinion and am impressed that you live by your convictions. When I read of situations like Lynn's friend Barry, it breaks my heart. I could never kill an animal. I swerve to miss squirrels, I covered up a toad I found upside down on the driveway (still alive) with leaves so it would stay warm, and I have rescued dogs. It just really bothers me when people assume all hunters are zombies who enjoy killing just to kill and wish harm upon them. And I don't get the dove hunt, either.

Thanks sleeper, I respect your opinions as well. I think broad generalizations of any kind are dangerous. There are opinions on both extremes in this thread that I don't agree with but I think it's good for people to speak their mind, though admittedly I'm not a fan of when the insults start flying. If I've offended or insulted anyone, I apologize as it wasn't my intention.

I live in a hunting household, though I don't hunt myself. But I'm not gonna say anything about that.

But I WILL tell you the standing joke around these parts: "When you see a doe with a fawn or two standing beside the road as you drive by, do you know what they are doing? Mama is teaching her babies to JUMP OUT IN FRONT OF CARS!" And that's exactly what they do. One day last week at dusk I happened by an accident where a deer was hit by a car travelling 60 mph. It landed on the windshield, which was completely bashed in. The driver lost control and landed in the ditch. The car was totalled.