I have never approved of punishing the whole class for the misbehavior of a few - even if the punishment is lighter for the non-offenders.

Teacher and I would be having a little chat.

Linda

I don't understand that at all. What's the point of punishing a kid who didnt do anything wrong?

How are you going to handle it?

I would be calling the school to complain. I had to do that once when my son was supposed to have detention for 5 days when *a* teacher overheard him call a little girl, "fluffy". I called the school and she said SHE was offended by the comment so my kid was getting detentions. I asked if the little girl was upset, or if she cried and that either way my son would just apologize and I would talk to him about it. The teacher said the little girl didn't react at all and just ran off to play with her friends. That's when I got really angry. I told her I wore a t-shirt, which I could show her, that said, "I'm not fat. I'm fluffy!" and it wasn't an insult. If my son wanted to insult her he certainly wouldn't have used the word fluffy, he would've been very blunt. He was 9 at the time. I told her that I refused to let my son serve a minute in detention because the teacher was offended and the little girl wasn't. And he didn't. I did talk with my son though, and told him to keep his opinions to himself. He even said he didn't say it to hurt her feelings. He thought he was being nice.

Debby_ab,

I know you live in Canada, and the laws may be very different there, but in California, where I live, the person who is on the receiving end of a comment doesn't have to be offended for the commenter to get in trouble for sexual harassment. Anyone who overhears the comment, and who is offended by it, can file a complaint.

In other words, you can't impose your values on someone else. Everyone has the right to their own feelings and sensitivities.

For all you know, the teacher who made the complaint may have been overweight as a child and teased unmercifully; and hearing your son may have immediately brought up awful memories and feelings.

Yikes. Too over the top for me.

Trin

When I went to public school, I got punished severely for something I didn't do. The accuser lied. I'm 78 and have never forgotten it. I still hold it against the teacher.

My daughter is saying that they do that so that the kids who didn't do anything wrong will be angry with the kids who did wrong. But we both agree it's not right.

Seems like the school needs to rethink its punishment. I can't see where it will encourage anyone to want to write.
Writing is a skill that should be nurtured, not used as punishment.
When my dad was alive, he used to tell this story. He was born in 1898. When he was in grade school he had to write 100 times on the blackboard...."I have gone." Because he always said "I have went."
So he wrote all the sentences and at the very bottom, he wrote this...."I have went home. Herman"
He continued to say I have went until he died.

When I was in ninth grade, there was a food fight during lunch. I wasn't involved. I ducked down under a table as soon as the food started flying. Everyone in the lunchroom got detention as a punishment. I begged my mom to call the school and get me out of it because I didn't do anything. She wouldn't . It was the only time in high school or any school that I was punished.

I can remember being in a school and being punished as a whole class when I did nothing at all wrong a couple of times. I'm 60 now and still get angry when I think of this. I hated school when the teachers were unfair and unreasonable. Back then we didn't dare protest or talk back to them. We didn't dare complain to our parents either so they probably were unaware of what was happening. Nuns sure liked us to write out the ten commandments as punishment. It sure didn't make me fond of religion.

Carol is right. Writing should be nurtured.

I can sometimes see punishing the group, bcs sometimes the group is somehow encouraging the ones who are being rowdy.

DS says that he *was* talking; he was saying, "be quiet," and "the teacher didn't tell you go to in," and "wait for the teacher."

Who knows.

This is Catholic school, so I'm not so sure that complaining will make much of a difference. But it doesn't make me love this school, that's for sure!

If I'm behaving myself and get in less trouble than the others who are misbehaving ...

... that makes me more mad at the unfair teacher than at the other kids!!

As an irrelevant aside, here - I don't much like segregated schools.

ole joyful

I think DS would like a school segregated by sex--he told me the WORST ones were the GIRLS! (emphasis his)

He said "You should have seen them on pizza day!"

I got included in a punishment in sixth grade. My argument that I was absent the day the class committed the offense fell on deaf ears. My absence note was on the teacher's desk at that time. That's one teacher I've never forgotten.

Your son's teacher needs to develop her classroom management skills. To me, that punishment from the dark ages is an indication that she really doesn't know how to keep a class under control.

lindsey_ca, not to hijack the thread here, but how is calling *anyone* fluffy considered sexual harassment??? In the 13 years I've told this story, nobody has ever said that to me. LOL He could have very well said it to a boy. Would it still be perceived that way? Regardless, it's done and over with and it was an over sensitive teacher (who at the time was not over weight herself, I've met her) and I'm sooooooooooooo sick and tired of having to be PC 110% of the time.

Anyways, back to the subject. My sister and I went for coffee tonight and I asked her about this as her children all attend a private Catholic school that is ubber strict. I asked if the class would all get punished if one or two kids did something wrong. She said only if nobody owned up to it would the whole class get in trouble. So I said in this case, the child wasn't doing anything wrong which is why he got 200 less lines than those who did. She was stunned. What does this teach your child? It teaches him, "I may as well be bad like everyone else because I'm still going to get punished!" We both agreed on that. And she too, would call the school to complain.

A good friend of mine went to Catholic school and his nightmare memory was one of the first classes in public school. One of the, more strict, social studies teachers asked the class What does USSR stand for? and my buddy shot his hand up and proudly announced "United States Soviet Republic!" to which the teacher loudly goes WRONG!!! and of course the class busted out laughing. Scarred him for a long long time. And yes, that's what they taught him "USSR" stood for!

That is just plain silly.

My granddaughter, a sophmore in high school, said her whole Spanish language class got a "D" because the teacher said they were unruly (she has a phone picture of HIM kicking a desk). She said one of the girls is a pastor's daughter and so meek and mild and probably got into trouble with her father because of that. Granddaughter is an excellent student and she and another boy had earlier tried to be moved out of the class to their former teacher's class, to no avail (teacher had allotted number of students). At the beginning of this school year they had a substitute who couldn't control the class, then they got this new hire who evidentally can't either.

regarding the "fluffy"--the rude part is not the choice of word.

It is rude to comment on anybody's weight--or lack thereof.

HE WAS NINE! Your kids never said anything rude in their lifetime? Or maybe they did and just never got caught. :o)

I hope you speak to the teacher because I wish I had a few years ago. My son is also in a Catholic school and I can attest to the writing part. The students work non-stop almost all day with very little hands-on activities. Lots of book work.

One day he bursted out in tears because he was so frustrated that once again, the whole class was held back because of others talking. It was almost a daily occurrence. My guess at that time was that the teacher couldn't control her class. The class averaged around 37 students.

They mentioned ADD to me too, but not for being rowdy - but for being too quiet. Passive ADD or something. Lots of students were on Ritalin but I refused and got him outside help.

If it's still bothering you, I'd say go talk to his teacher.

I personally would prefer a teacher be overly strict rather than let things go. The fact that a whole class gets punished doesn't really bother me.. sports teams are treated that way all the time.

It teaches many leassons about real life... team playing, unfairness, the fact that some don't own up so everyone suffers, etc.... When these kids grow up and get out in the real world, they will understand and be able to deal with unfairness and taking one for the team (and may undersand why they don't get a bonus when the company didn't have a good year even though they did).

Of course if mom goes complaining about everything, a child will be confused and not get the correct point of the punishments. I let teachers punish how they want unless there is really something wrong. I have no problem with the oh so boring punishment of having to write things numerous times. The bigger problem is parents not supporting their teachers. It may not be your personal preference for punishment; but it's the teacher's class. Just like you may not like to be told you have to use time outs inside of putting your kid in a corner, or that you should or shouldn't spank. It's not really up to you to decide classrooms punishments as long as they are morally ok - it's just not your call. Sometimes, I may secretly roll my eyes when my kids tell me some way a teacher handles something, but I generally say "She's in charge; she gets to decide." The kids need to learn respect for a teacher and second guessing her tactics with the children may just teach disrespectfulness towards her.

And, my kid is 10; if he called another kid "fluffy" when he was 9, I would expect him to get punished; I'd probably punish him myself too. No, it's not the end of the world and I agree most kids that age do say stuff like that from time to time, but that doesn't make it right or unworthy of punishment.

And, my kid is 10; if he called another kid "fluffy" when he was 9, I would expect him to get punished; I'd probably punish him myself too. No, it's not the end of the world and I agree most kids that age do say stuff like that from time to time, but that doesn't make it right or unworthy of punishment.

Why??? *I* wore a tshirt that called ME fluffy, so he didn't see it as an insult. Are people that sensitive? No wonder there's so many court cases holding up the courts these days. Really! I am completely dumbfounded that anyone would find it insulting, especially when the child it was directed to didn't even notice! She just went and played with her friends. No tears. No crying. NO hurt feelings. THAT is what matters in the end. SHE wasn't hurt! And he thought he was being nice. HE and I had a talk, but as for punishment? NONE. We did have a talk about it, but I'm not going to punish a child for thinking he did something right.

I'm going to let this drop now. I'm sitting here laughing about it.

Sounds like DH's family. When they were kids, if one of them did something and didn't fess up, they were all punished.

Comparing the schools now against many years ago, I see lots of lack of respect on both sides. Society has "taken away" punishment (not physical) and many teachers are not taught how to control the kids. I feel that the kids should be told up front, the rules, punishments, etc. I see no problem talking in line, as long as it is quiet, and no pushing, shoving etc. After all we as adults do it all the time and how many adults chit chat and not pay attention to the line moving etc. I can see why many teachers are "afraid" of the students--they are afraid if they make a kid mad they will bring guns in..
If your child is really upset, talk to the teacher and the principal. Do not let this teacher or any other "control" the kids, they must teach.

There's something not right about any system that punishes those who do nothing wrong, and let wrong-doers off with slaps on wrist.

Jann

debby,

I don't want to beat a dead horse either... but you really don't know that the girl wasn't hurt by it. When kids made fun of me when I was little, I hardly ever showed feelings (and just ignored it and acted like nothing was said), but I would go home and cry (my mom wouldn't even usually know). I would lay big money on it that in one way or the other, it did hurt the girl especially at that age. I think your laughing at it and calling people overly sensitive only stresses the point that you do not understand that you are teaching your child to bully. Yes, dear, you are. Laugh all you want. It's one thing to not think it's that big of a deal but to truly think it didn't do any pain to the girl and sit there laughing about how others see it as wrong shows where your heart is.

And, how the heck did he think he was doing something "nice"... ok, maybe he didn't call her fat, but he still called her a negative name. You're joking yourself if you don't think he intended it to mean. Big time joking yourself. He's nine, not four. There's just no 'nice' there. She wasn't dressed as a bunny. It was name calling plain and simple.

The next time a slightly overweight KT-er posts a picture of herself/himself, why don't you call them "fluffy" and see what the reaction is? -By the way, I don't really want you to do it; it would hurt someone which is what I'm trying to point out. The fact that you call yourself it on a shirt, proves nothing. Hopefully, your husband doesn't own that "I'm with Stupid" shirt or you're probably in for even more loads of trouble.

As for the writing, I would have a meeting with the teacher w/o your son there and tell her you disagree with everyone having to do the writing, especially those who did nothing wrong. I understand that writing is a lot of work for your DS, and to be punished by writing for something he did not do is just wrong. I believe this will make your son resentful and angry.

I work at an elementary school, and our teachers have many creative ways of pleasantly controlling talking that are not so burdensome. Kids can then spend their time on actually learning something instead of writing over and over. This is a really old-fashioned treatment of discipline. If she wants them to write, the talkers could write her a note of apology.

If your meeting with the teacher leaves you with a stand-off, I would slip a polite not to the principal, or even a phone call, just to let her/him know about it.

Remember, you get more bees with honey than vinegar--or something like that. LOL!

Susan

If you do plan to meet with the teacher, maybe it would be better if your DS did not know. May just create more confusion in his mind.