I sure do. I went this week and the week before. My shoulders and upper back were hurting so bad and had gradually gotten worse over the summer. I feel so much better now. He also worked on my lower back and said I had been lopsided and I believe I was. I even got a little massage and she was really good at it. I may go back another time after Thanksgiving is over to be feeling even better. Then if all goes well will only go for a "yearly tuneup". I guess it depends on the chiropractor and if he is a good one.

Sue

Nope.
I do go to an orthopedist, and belong to a gym.

Different chiropractors have different techniques. I don't know what your chiropractor does, Cookie (or what problem he's trying to treat), but my experiences have ranged from "Wow--that was great!" to "I am never going back to that idiot!"

I've been seeing my present chiropractor on and off for over 20 years. In the beginning he used to get me out of pain, and then I learned to go for "tune-ups" to prevent me from getting in pain in the first place. Medicare used to allow 12 chiro visits per year, but then they withdrew that permission and will pay only if you have an "event" (injury). Recently I hurt my neck, so I've had several treatments. Even though I'm a fan of good chiropractic, I'm amazed at how much better my neck, upper back, mid back, and lower back feel after these treatments.

Good luck with yours. If you don't think the chiropractor is helping, ask around for recommendations.

Oh, one thing to avoid: A chiropractor once told me about seminars that teach chiropractors how to schedule daily, then weekly, then monthly visits--the goal being to milk a client for as many fees as possible. He was disgusted with this practice. Me too. I would never go to a chiropractor who did this.

Depending on how severe the problem is will determine how many treatments it takes to get back to "normal."

If the dr. tries to manipulate it too much too quickly you would be in worse shape and could cause more pain and/or damage.

I love my Chiropractor! Been going for years.
He has several steps in his treatments.
1- you stretch
2- you spend a bit of time w/the tens unit
3- he does the manipulation
4- you go to a masseuse and get about 15 minute massage.

I am on the 1x per month maintenance tune up. I had problems in my neck and back. I couldn't turn my head to look over my right shoulder. I had to turn my body from the waist. Not good when you're driving. It took about 9 months to get me where my neck belonged. I couldn't tell any difference until about the 4th or 5th treatments.

I hope whatever your problem is will resolve soon.

Thanks for the input. I had years of joint problems and have everything under control now. I am hoping to fix problems that I created by guarding body parts in the past. I was terrified to go. I think he is moving slowly with me so went as gentle as possible.
I did buy a discount plan because I wanted at least 12 sessions to get a full feel for it all. You can get a refund at any time for any reason. Whew, glad to hear of the positive experiences.

I agree with alisande. You have to be very careful. I used a new chiropractor in town and she actually caused pain in my neck. (That is not what I went in for.) She also charged a high fee and gave only twenty minutes time. Part of that was having personal conversations because she was new to the area and liked to hear my experiences having living here for over twenty years.
I have given up on chiropractors and find that with diligent exercise and keeping my weight down, I have less reason to go.
I used to go to one for years but she left the area. She did a short massage as part of the visit. Who wouldn't want to go there!

There are huge differences in chiro docs depending on which school they went to and which methods were taught there.
And there are some that are just out for money and they give all the good ones a really bad name. I had the unfortunate experience of going to one of those here. Thankfully I was a very experienced chiro patient and had previously had a wonderful doctor in the Dallas area. This guy had both of us come in at night for a class with other new patients, the whole thing was like a pyramid scheme and it was set up to get every bit of insurance he could out of you and then set you up on a payment plan. His entire class was a big fraud. Really pissed us both off. Never stepped foot in there again. My husband is not a patient yet but should be.

I am very thankful for finding a wonderful chiro doctor in the Dallas area, had never been to one but was in the worst pain of my life and scheduled for back surgery when I went and he started me on spinal decompression which was like a miracle.
Cancelled the surgery and have been happy every since. I have maintenance adjustments with tens and either heat or ice prior to adjustment. When I can tell I need it I have a few sessions of decompression. My life would so much more painful if I did not have my chiro doc.
My current doc is also very good but practices a little bit different method, he did not go to Parker training he went to Texas chiropractic and they teach slightly different methodology and techniques. But if I ask him to do a specific adjustment that my other doc did he is happy to do that since it works well for me. Plus I have my own tens machine to use at home and that is so helpful. I just ordered 2 of them to give to my sisters for Christmas, both go to a chiropractor and love having the tens used on them.
I don't think I could be too far away from a good chiro doc and a good decompression table ever!

You're not kidding about Chiropractors being different....I actually worked for one and got so disgusted with his practice, I had to quit....Don't get me wrong, there are some that are really good, do the job but when they start setting you up with weekly or better, appointments that go on and on (or as long as the insurance pays), then it's time to look elsewhere...My former boss even had me trying to talk new patients into "buying" into a family plan for x amount of $$$ and then the whole family could come for a reduced amount...He actually sent me to a seminar to learn the lingo on how to push to get them to sign.... I did go to another chiropractor in town, who had been in practice for years and he would always tell you, 1 -2 treatments and then you call him....And I can honestly say, this doctor never "hurt", no matter the problem......
I think, you just have to be aware, listen to what friends have to say about the doc.......

I've had the experience of having to be greatly helped into a chiropractor's office, and walk out on my own 15 minutes later.

I'm a big believer in chiropractors. As with any doctor (or any other profession) there are good ones and not so good ones and downright bad ones.

I've never been but I know several people who say their chiropractor really helps them.

Snidely, your blind insistence on "proven medical benefits" is getting a little old.

I was going to ask that you take the testimonials posted here as proof enough, but then I remembered that you compared our experiences to animal fat being smeared on our faces to ward off evil spirits.

It's unfortunate you can't trust us to know the difference between being helped and being conned.

We both go......my husband gets a cold laser treatment on his feet for neuropathy and gets "stretched" on a machine that pulls....can't remember the name of it....plus adjustments on his hips...anyway it has helped him tremendously....he had polio as a child and has other heath issues....I can honestly say our chiropractor is good.....I don't know about other ones out there that do nothing to make you feel better but I wouldn't rule out all chiropractors..

I don't go to one but I know several people who have found them very helpful. I don't believe that chiropractors give some sort of placebo effect, but even if they did, is that so bad if it helps the person? If I have chronic pain and the only thing that helps is a chiropractic adjustment, there is no way I would stop going despite what "experts" say. Who have, historically, been wrong as more and more information becomes available.

I have had multiple doctors who are now awful at it because they have to rely so much on what "science" says. I have bad anxiety and I asked my doctor what I could do to combat it and she said my only option is to take a combination of 3 different drugs twice a day. Turns out there is plenty I can do other than take pills and I had to figure that out myself because there is no "science" behind it.

alisande, I'm sorry if my comments are repetitive to what I'd said in a prior thread or threads. How about yours?

When someone asks a question (as in this thread) to which there are pro and con opinions, are you suggesting only one side is welcome to answer? How does that work, the first one to post locks out people who have a different view?

There are so many nice people who participate here, I hate to think what could happen if they follow the wrong suggestions. Most of what chiropractors do is benign, but the biggest risk is that the patient thinks their condition is being treated and they fail to seek competent medical treatment.

Ever wonder why by law chiropractors can't write prescriptions? (Yeah, I know, they don't believe in using drugs)

Or why they can't do surgery (Yeah, I know, they believe in more holistic treatments).

If you are happy with what you do, I'm happy too. I had a good friend who was a chiropractor (who sadly died prematurely), you don't want me to tell you some of the things he told me. When he was sick or had any personal complaints (including back complaints), he went to MDs.

Snidely, if you don't see how insulting your earlier post was to those of us who said we were helped by chiropractic treatments, I'm not going to put the time into explaining it to you.

I will say, however, that since many insurance companies pay for chiropractic care, they must do so in the belief that the treatment has value. I'm sure there's some science out there to back this up, but again, I'm not inclined to spend my time searching.

No, I've never wondered why chiropractors can't prescribe drugs. I'm just glad they don't want to.

I have a tendency to perhaps use stronger than necessary words. I didn't intend they be insulting, so sorry for that.

Insurance company reimbursement policies are all about cost containment. Chiropractic "treatments" tend to cost less, and patients who are happy going to a chiropractor may not pursue more expensive medical treatments (injections, surgery, other therapies) even if that's what they really need. Because chiropractors rarely refer a patient out. (Isn't that funny, physicians refer their patients to other specialists all the time but chiropractors rarely do).

My chiropractor friend had a successful practice. In quiet, sometimes beer-fueled moments, he admitted his feelings that what he did was bogus. He likened his approach to that of a pastor - he tried to make people feel better based on the limited things he could do. But different from his competitors, he referred patients to back doctors when his efforts were unsuccessful. He also never treated his wife or kids, they also went to medical doctors as he did.

A good doctor will recommend chiropractic care to their patients for certain problems. My internist sees a chiropractor regularly. I've been seeing mine three days a week for my pinched nerve problem. His goal (and mine) is to avoid shots or surgery. Naturally, he took xrays first to determine the extent of the damage....he won't treat anyone who clearly requires orthopedic care.

Peke, the stretching apparatus is called traction. I call it "the rack ", lol. That's probably the single most beneficial thing for me. The technician hooks up the tens unit, and straps a large moist heat pad at the same time. Then, "the rack ". My doctor spends anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes with me doing what I call the "laying on of the hands"...the rest of my time is in the treatment room with the technician.

He is also a great educator, and is teaching me exercises and other things that I can do at home.

A well educated and experienced chiropractor can vastly improve the quality of one's life.

I work for a chiropractor and I can't fathom how someone says they are quackery. Every nerve, bone and muscle is connected to the spine in some way. There fore if the spine is in alignment, the whole body functions better & more efficiently.

Example: The fluid in a child's ears flows freely after their neck is adjusted.;...therefore, the fluid doesn't puddle and become an ear infection.

Your spine effects everything, from digestion, to nerve pain, to headaches.

Chiropractors have 4 years of college and at least 3 years of chiropractor school. I have no clue about some of these "pyramid schemes", that is agreeably disturbing. But a good chiropractor is all about healthy lifestyle, to AVOID surgery and drugs.

I'm sorry that I unintentionally produced more heat than light. I figured I'd gone far enough, but I'd like to respond to these last two comments:

rhizo, nerve tissue isn't visible in a normal x-ray, so I'm not sure what assessment was possible. Medical doctors use other means to diagnose pinched nerves (like MRIs and nerve conduction tests) but chiropractors aren't permitted to do these procedures.

juellie, I hope your employer is an honest and fair person. Don't be too impressed with his background, chiro school is very easy to get into and isn't very difficult to complete compared to medical training. The years chiros spend in training is a fraction of the time and difficulty that physicians go through.

Is it curious to anyone to realize that chiropractors aren't allowed to practice in hospitals? That they aren't present in most large medical group practices or at large medical centers?

Here's what Wikipedia says:

"Chiropractic techniques were invented in the 19th century by Daniel David Palmer, a "magnetic healer". There is no good evidence that it is effective against disease."

Keep your eyes open!

I don't think anyone is suggesting using a chiropractor over a medical doctor for treatment of diseases or major health issues. They both have their uses.

snidely..is wiki your end all source for knowledge? I feel sorry for you if that's the case. You should heed your own advice and keep your eyes (and your mind) open.

And actually, there are many hospitals that have chiropractors on staff. One chiropractor in our small town area just closed his practice to join a major teaching hospital. Seems the employees basically demanded one being on staff; as they have to use their own physicians to be covered by the health care plan offered.

I'm curious as to your level of education if you think chiropractor school and the state boards they are required to pass are so "easy".

I haven't gone - but know many that have. As posted above some people have had good experiences and others bad. One thing for sure though is not one person I know (including my doctor who has been to one) will let a chiro touch their necks.

Wiki is usually viewed as an objective and unbiased source because it's peer-reviewed. Complaints about unsubstantiated claims result in the material being pulled. If you don't like it, fine, do your own research of objective sources.

I wasn't aware there were any major teaching hospitals in small towns (other than Mayo) but so be it. I'm near two Top 10 centers with world class experts and departments (Stanford and UCSF) and nary a chiropractor to be found at either. Why?

My views on this topic are based on numerous discussions over the years with many friends and family members who are doctors, and with several chiropractors I have known. Myself, I have a graduate degree in a non-health field.

Anyone is welcome to seek whatever treatment they wish. I'm sorry, I believe unproven treatments and claims are dangerous because of what's done and what's not done.

Really? I never heard anyone say that. I get my neck adjusted every time I go. There have been instances when the neck adjustment got me out of pain instantly. The adjustment doesn't hurt, but sometimes it's loud. :-)

well snidely, you too have a right to your opinion. But this i'd like to know....if something works for millions of people, why is it unproven and dangerous?? Makes no sense.

It's unproven because it hasn't passed the standards of testing and examination that other health procedures are subject to.

The prevailing standard is that there has to be evidence of effectiveness. Evidence is not asking people how they feel as they walk out a door after a treatment, there's a technique called double blind testing to eliminate bias and (theoretically) manipulation. And, studies get repeated to insure that the results can be reproduced.

In mainstream medicine, there are hundreds of thousands of people worldwide in a constant state of research, testing and reconsideration of various treatments and approaches, finding new ones and raising criticisms about old ones. There are prescribed procedures that are required, and findings are always subject to dispute and second guessing by others. Through these processes knowledge is enhanced and treatments improve. Chiropractics does none of that. And never has. The body of knowledge is based upon the views of one person (Palmer) who had no medical training but had previously treated people with magnets. Seriously.

Here's an entertaining 10 minutes from a medical doctor, who also does research, talking about how results are manipulated or misunderstood. He talks a little about the placebo effect, which is probably what's at work when people feel better from chiropractic treatments. TED is a legit forum for the sharing of ideas, maybe you'll find other things there that are of interest to you.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bad science

How about a little less hair-pulling around here ...

... or would that be, "hair manipulation"?

I find it difficult to believe that, with the testimony that thousands/millions have given as to relief of discomfort and pain which many have provided, that chiropracty is all smoke and mirrors ...

... but, that said, I've never been to one.

But my body has spoiled me rotten by seldom causing me any discomfort, pain or other trouble. I've not, since being single, felt the need to even keep aspirin in the house.

ole joyful

I've been to chiropractors. They used massage, a roller table, and that little hammer. None of that hurt or seemed to do a darned thing. Another guy did a manual adjustment - popped my neck or something. That HURT and scared the heck out of me. Never again.

I wouldn't go to a chiropractor again because I never felt like they were helpful. I'm also not convinced that their methods work, although if they help people, even through the placebo effect, that's good. At any rate, I now have wires in my head/neck/shoulder. I would be scared to have anything done that might break or dislodge any of the wiring or my chest battery. So definitely no chiropractor or head/neck massage!

I LOVE my chiropractor!!! Since my DH was in the Air Force I have been to several chiropractors in more than one state and they were all very good and helpful except for one. I found another one and he was wonderful, too. He has diagnosed a couple things that doctors didn't. I went back to the doctor and they said oh, yeah, that's what you have. I could write a long post of all the things he has done for me. If you haven't been in pain or found a GOOD chiropractor then don't knock them.

I, too, have a chiropractor that I love. He has helped me quite a few times over the years and I greatly prefer going to someone who doesn't throw drugs at the problem, instead finding the source and fixing it.

I agree that you need to find someone you trust and fixes your problem. I went to another guy before this one and he didn't help.

And I agree, if you haven't had any personal experience with a chiropractor, then you don't really know what you are talking about. There are millions of people that have been helped by chiropractors. Of course there are bad people in the profession, but that is true of every profession.

I believe that some of the treatments offered in a chiropractors office can have some benefit. Massage, or the electro muscle zapping thingy, or heat or cold application, or stretching, but the central tenet of "adjusting or manipulating" the spine seems implausible to me, except perhaps in certain limited cases of pinched nerves causing muscle spasms that in turn pinch the nerves in question. And the notion of pressing or twisting the spine or neck until it "pops", as if the "pop" is somehow indicative of when the therapeutic effect occurs, seems ludicrous to me.

The chiropractors' claims that the "adjustment" is part of an comprehensive treatment plan, seems similar to the ads for sugary cereals I remember from childhood that said "Fruit Loops are a part of this complete, nutritious breakfast" and they pictured the bowl of cereal alongside eggs, bacon, toast, orange juice, and a grapefruit.

And regarding the neck it can be dangerous. There are numerous instances of "arterial dissections" (a tear in the inner lining of an artery) being caused by Chiropractic adjustments of the neck, that can cause a stroke.

I'd agree that much of modern medicine these days seems to be geared toward figuring out which expensive medicine to prescribe and getting you out the door. I will also admit that just because a particular treatment option is not fully explainable by scientific methods, that doesn't mean that they cannot be effective. The exact mechanism through which aspirin works to relieve pain is not yet fully understood.

My biggest complaint is when the alternative medicine practitioner offers an explanation of "how" their treatment works and the explanation sounds like one the characters on the Star Trek shows might offer, consisting of a bunch of science-y sounding words strung together to produce a answer that is somewhere between hogwash and gibberish.

I've noticed in the last few years what I guess one could call "New Age" chiropractors have started to spring up, going far beyond the muscular and claiming chiropractic treatment "helps" cure autuism, asthma, and even cancer, through spinal "adjustment".

" I will also admit that just because a particular treatment option is not fully explainable by scientific methods, that doesn't mean that they cannot be effective. "

Except that the development of new knowledge in any field of study, including health care of any kind, the accepted approach (the scientific method) is the logical opposite of what you said. The default position is that any new suggestion is assumed to be wrong until proven otherwise.

It's effectiveness that has to be demonstrated persuasively, not ineffectiveness.

All of us will have periods of illness and disease during our lives. Be thankful that the standard of care for medical doctors requires that your treatments only include those measures that have been rigorously tested and either shown to be effective or worth the risk of trying. Nothing's 100%, and docs are human too, but having to follow that standard is a good thing. By the way, that approach doesn't seem to apply to chiropractors.

Be thankful that the standard of care for medical doctors requires that your treatments only include those measures that have been rigorously tested and either shown to be effective or worth the risk of trying.

What??? Do you really believe that? When I was six years old doctors told my parents that removing my adenoids with radiation was far safer than surgery. Oops!

You could say, Well, that was a long time ago. And it was. But....

When I was in my fifties a cardiologist, of all people, tried to push hormone replacement therapy on me, insisting it would benefit my heart and a slew of other body parts. Oops!

Medical science has a long history of Oops events, and it's still going on. With the best of intentions (usually), they recommend treatments that are later found to be useless at best or dangerous at worst. The "rigorous testing" is often a fallacy.

I go to a top Boston medical dr. at Tufts Medical for my back issues. She suggested to also try a chiropractor and she goes to one herself.

Hundreds/thousands of native tribes have been in existence for thousands of years.

During that time, many treatment methods have been found that were found to be beneficial, using manipulative and massage and other similar kinds of treament, and many uses have been found for plants and other materials in their environment to help relieve pain or provide various kinds of healing.

Many drug companies have visited those practitioners and, having found what materials they used, tested them and found what the active ingredients were, then mass produced them ... to make major profits,

Occasionally ...some of the more responsible ones shared some of those profits with the people who had provided them with the original information ...

.. but many didn't.

The original treatment methods hadn't been clinically tested and run through various trials ... but they had been found, over many centuries, to provide assistance.

Sould we deny that such information had any value?

ole joyful

Alisande, you've got it exactly! In medicine new treatments are tried, if they don't work or lead to undesirable side effects, they're discontinued and the process continues with other ideas. It's trial and error and critical assessment to improve care.

In our lifetimes unimaginable advances have been made. A example is the survival rate of premies and how babies born many months early can survive and grow up to be perfectly normal. Today's standard practices and outcomes were unimaginable even 30 years ago, and a lot of mistakes were made along the way to get to today's knowledge.

No. I would not go to a 'chiropractor'. Is there a standard to become one? A license? Continued training or monitoring?

You can't disprove the 'feel good' results many people have from something they BELIEVE is helping them. Millions are taking taking prescription drugs and 'supplements' that come up short when tested with placebo controls. Heck, MD's prescribe do-little pills that only 'help' if the patient believes in the MD.

I know of no scientific evidence that chiropractic is any more *curative* than massage. The very 'laying on of hands' helps many people. Good for them as long as no *harm* is done. (I feel the same about religion.)

Chisue, I'm surprised to hear you think those of us who have been helped by chiropractic are all delusional.

I know of no scientific evidence that chiropractic is any more *curative* than massage.

Of course you don't. Why would you? Why would anybody, unless they were interested in the topic and had a desire to learn more about it.

How does the placebo effect come into play if one receives a bad treatment? Years ago I went to a Dr. C. when my chiropractor was on vacation. I fully expected to have a good and helpful treatment since he had been recommended by my chiro. According to what I know about the placebo effect, if that's what was at work it should have carried me through to a good outcome. But the outcome was that I had to spend more than a week in bed afterward.

Oh, and Snidely........

In medicine new treatments are tried, if they don't work or lead to undesirable side effects, they're discontinued and the process continues with other ideas. It's trial and error and critical assessment to improve care.

So now you're saying that the "rigorous" testing you referred to in your previous post includes using unsuspecting patients as guinea pigs? That's just great.

Not sure how I ended up being the champion of chiropractors in this thread. I must be inspired by all the help I received from one this month.

PS: Yes, chiropractors are licensed. I hope you didn't think anyone could call himself a chiropractor.

"Millions are taking taking prescription drugs and 'supplements' that come up short when tested with placebo controls."

Nope, it doesn't work this way, that's what double blind testing is all about. Everyone receives a treatment, sometimes not even those administering it (in the case of a medicine) know if it's the placebo or the real thing.

"I know of no scientific evidence that chiropractic is any more *curative* than massage."

Of course not, it doesn't exist, chiropractic schools do little to no research or testing of the material they teach. Medical schools are criticised and can lose their accreditation if they don't do enough research. Pretty dramatic difference, don't you think?

"So now you're saying that the "rigorous" testing you referred to in your previous post includes using unsuspecting patients as guinea pigs? "

Testing continues after approval is given, although a level of effectiveness needs to be proven beforehand. Sometimes initial findings turn out to be false or wrong in some way and get changed or replaced. That's a good thing. No patients are included in a study without their permission.

I think this dead horse has been beaten sufficiently, I'm sorry no physicians participate here. Happy T-Day everyone!

snidely -- Have you misunderstood me? People are taking supplements (untested) because they 'trust' that they are helping. They are sometimes also taking prescription drugs where the supposed 'benefits' are no greater than the few percentage points that can be statistical error -- but if patients BELIEVE they help, they ARE 'helping'. (Consider some psychiatric meds where, like chiropractic, the 'results' are only measurable by the patient's reporting as to his 'mood'.)

Alisande -- I'm not saying anyone is 'delusional', but we know that the mind plays a large role in how we perceive pain and health. There are real benefits in what we believe in. That's why placebos 'work'. That's how some religion 'works'.

Can there be 'professionals' who are more talented than others in the same field? Sure. Plenty of what we call 'medicine' is less scientific than it is an art. I'm glad you have gotten help from such a person. I'm not ready to call chiropractic a science though.

Clinical Social Workers and Psychologists are licensed. Some are useful in some areas or only with certain patients. (Another 'art'.)

chisue, I think you and I are mostly in agreement, especially in your most recent comment about supplements. They're unregulated, recommended by "health care providers" who have no knowledge of what they're doing, and are incredibly more dangerous than people realize. Many supplement advocates turn to the negative by saying "well, there's no evidence that it isn't effective" which, as discussed above, is a nonsensical argument. It's effectiveness that needs to be proven, not ineffectiveness.

My disagreement was over your comments that the benefit of a prescription med could be within the range of a statistical error or could "come up short when tested with placebo controls". I'm no expert, I could be wrong, but I don't think these two notions are true. I don't think a med whose beneficial effect is within the range of a statistical error gets approved, and double blind studies negate any placebo effect. Maybe someone with more knowledge in this area can speak up.

Chiropractors do not "cure", they correct. If something is out of alignment in the body, the body hurts. I've gone to an Orthopedic surgeon and have had him tell me he has nothing against chiropractors as long as they don't over adjust. He sends his patients with athletic injuries to a chiropractor. The problem is, it's very difficult to find a good one but if you're lucky enough to hook up with a good chiropractor, it's wonderful. For me, the chiropractor is like the microwave of the medical profession. I wouldn't want the microwave to be the only oven in my kitchen but I cannot imagine my kitchen without one..

My husband went for awhile. The guy sounded like a used car salesman. It helped my husband with his lower back pain, but when he quit it came back. He quit going because the pain wasn't bad enough for him to spend his life going there all the time.