Getting Elderly Drivers Off The Road, Part Deux

17 years ago

Below is the original post I made about six weeks ago, detailing the sad story of the efforts we've made to get my father OFF the road. He's old, senile, on many medications, physically disabled and has already killed a neighbor's dog (never even hit the brakes), and he's run into ditches, phone poles, other cars, etc.

He failed the "virtual driving test" when he hit and killed a virtual pedestrian. His license was revoked but he still drives.

Read much further below for more history. Here's the update.

The neighbors near my father want him off the road as much as I do. Each time my father leaves the driveway, they call 911 to report him. Yesterday, the cops finally caught him red-handed (after six weeks of illegal driving), driving in a car with no license plates (we removed them to keep him off the road) and driving on a revoked license.

Despite all this and despite my pleading (and my neighbor's pleading) with the Police for a full 40 mintues and giving them the full history of what we've done to TRY and keep him from driving, our "finest" refused to:

Write a traffic citation

2) Write a criminal citation

3) Impound the car.

They asked my father to "not drive again" and he gave them his word. I told them that he gave his MINISTER his word and he gave his doctor his word and it doesn't matter!

Their reason for refusing to ticket my father: "He's a pathetic old man and he's 'messed up in the head.'" One of the cops said, "Hey, my grandma had Alzheimer's and I wouldn't write my grandma a ticket."

I told him, "I bet your grandma wasn't a risk to the community!" Further, I asked the police to state IN WRITING that they were refusing to follow the statutory code that prohibits driving without a valid license and THEY REFUSED. I do have their names and I'll write a letter to the chief of police, but I don't know if it'll help.

BTW, after we disabled his cars, he had them repaired. We tried to get his keys, but he has them locked up. We tried to get him declared mentally incompetent, but he's still "able to make his own decisions" according to the social worker who did the evaluation and according to his doctor.

Thanks to the Police, my father is now quite pleased. He knows that he is free to go wherever and whenever he wants and there will be absolutey no consequences.

I told the police - bluntly - "Think about this. Thirty days from now, what if he causes some innocent person harm through his bad driving? Do you know how bad it'll look for the Police when I explain to the media how I pleaded and begged for you to do something - and you refused? You are more concerned with this one individual than you are with the community's safety, which I'm confident is a violation of your sworn oath."

I used my best energies and arguments and efforts and for naught. When the cops left, one of them said "If you have any more trouble, call 911."

I stopped him and said, "For what? You've now demonstrated that you don't care that my father is breaking the law and putting the community at risk."

I went home in tears. I don't know what more to do.

I'm posting this here to ask for any new ideas. I'm spent.

Rose

Original post from 8/29 begins:

In another post about AARP, NancyLouise mentioned getting elderly drivers off the road. My father (now 90) just had his license suspended by the DMV (local licensing agency) and it took our family 13 months to make this happen.

Turns out, there are loop holes in the system and the only reason we finally got him off the road was a combination of dogged persistence, his numerous accidents, a devoted DMV employee, a caring doctor and angelic helpers along the way.

My father's Caddy started appearing with broken lenses, bashed in side panels, dented fenders and more. When asked, he'd say, "I'm not sure how that happened..." Then he ran over the neighbors dog (never saw that dog), got pulled over FOUR times in one year but not ticketed. Seems the old man would clutch his chest and say, "Officer, I have heart problems and I need to get home and get my nitroglycerine tablets..." The officers always let him go.

Four times he was pulled for running a stop sign and four times he was released. My father feels that stop signs violate his constitution rights, so he ignores them.

The family turned him IN to the DMV and they (in response to our letter) requested that my father obtain a physician's certificate. My father went to a "Good Old Boy" buddy - a fellow Mason (twitch, twitch) and the "OLD FRIEND" signed the certificate without a physical examination.

The DMV then did a road test but since he's such a "charming old man" they made the test short and easy.

Next month, he plowed into someone in a local tunnel and then sideswiped someone else.

"Dad," I asked, "Did you get a ticket?"

"I don't remember," he said.

These have all been minor accidents and incidents but the fact is, he suffers from physical disabilities (bad legs) and mental disabilities (age, memory, etc) and is under DOCTOR'S ORDERS not to drive. He's on LOTS of prescription medication.

And yet he continued to drive.

Then one day, a neighbor told me that she'd seen him have THREE accidents backing out of his own driveway. Ditch, telephone pole and ditch. So then *I* hauled him to his GP and said, "Please help us get this man's driver's license suspended."

My father insisted that his children were "exaggerating and mistating the facts."

The doctor asked, "Have you had any accidents recently?" To which my father replied, "Not one in 30 years."

Unbelievable.

At my URGING, the doctor agreed to order a driving test (on a simulator) for my father. My father thought this would "settle the matter once and for all."

Only a few minutes into the test, he killed a virtual pedestrian. Next, he went the wrong day down a street and then straddled the yellow line. Next, he did 10 mph and the 55 mph road. It was a super simple test. Can't believe *anyone* would fail that test, but he did.

As soon as DMV received the results, his license was immediately revoked. Dad didn't care. Not only did he refuse to surrender his keys, he HID them. He knew I was going to disable those cars and he had his keys hidden WELL.

Then one day I found that he'd left one of the car's back doors unlocked, so I got into the car and lifted the hood and disabled the engine. I then put a note under the hood that said, "This car has been disabled on purpose. Driver's license has been suspended. Do not restore to working condition."

This effort - dragging him around and getting this test and getting him OFF the road took two weeks of my life. I did it for the community. The DMV told me, "We have some legislative loop holes we're trying to close up. It's way too hard to get elderly drivers off the road."

No kidding.

By the way, my father's already looking for a mechanic to repair his vehicles. I already visited his regular mechanics and told them that he is OFF the road and that they should NOT repair his vehicles.

I drive a lot more cautiously these days, knowing that someone like my father is out there, sharing the road, driving a 4400 pound Cadillac.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (38)

grammahony
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I'd go to the media NOW, and not wait for someone to be harmed or killed. I think it may put more pressure on the cops to do their job.
Leslie
susan_on
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
You're right to go to the chief of police, or staff sergeant. The attending police officer does not have the last say.
Related Discussions
Rural Road Drivers - VENT!
Q
Comments (17)
msmitoagain, am I reading correctly that you are blocking part of the passing lane on purpose so people behind you can't drive by while you are waiting to turn left into your driveway? If so, why do you care if they pass? Aren't you afraid of having someone hit you (or worse, the way people are today) when you do that? If I misread that, never mind. But it struck me as odd...if it IS what you are doing, it isn't wise to antagonize people... :( My mom's place is on a main highway in a tiny town in the Sierras. There is a mom & pop market next to her house, and for some reason people feel COMPELLED to get out of their cars and pee against the side of the market in full view of my mom's house (all grown men, by the way). It's like they are magnetically drawn from miles around or something! We've yelled at so many it got to be a sport...wait until they juuuust get unzipped and THEN yell at them! :) Some of those guys could jump pretty high...A lot of those people weren't even using the market, just stopping to pee. What's weird is that there is a public park, WITH public bathrooms, just across the road and down about 500 yards, right next to the road. Fully visible. Picky pee-ers? :) We put up a nice split-rail fence in the front yard to keep people from pulling into our driveway and picnicing in our front yard (and leting their screaming kids run loose, dogs poop and leaving their trash). After a few years we also placed a couple of larger rocks in front of the fence because we got tired of having people backing into it and knocking it down. People do REALLY strange things on vacation that they'd never dream of doing otherwise, or having them done to THEM at home. Bizarre. Velvet ~:>
...See More
Foster fur-kids, part deux....
Q
Comments (27)
Make sure they test for Coccidia...sometimes they don't check for that and just look for worms... Yes we will indeed have his stools checked for Coccidia, thanks :o) You know usually stress isn't the cause the diarrhea, it is usually something that was already there and the stress has lowered the immune system just enough to set it loose.... Does that make sense?? yes, totally, the same thing happens with hamsters but mostly Syrians. Syrians get wet tail because something shocks their immune systems when they are moved long distances. The bacteria are there but it doesn't strike them hard until they are stressed. Are his eyes clear and sparkly (no gunk)? his eyes get gooky when he goes out in the bitter cold but otherwise they are clear and no sign of infection, scleras are white throughout Is his nose runny at all...dripping?? No,no drips at all, dry most of the time and cold and damp when he comes in from the cold but dries up again What color are his gums? Should be a nice pink, not too pale.. very nice pink and well hydrated...been checking for that Does he feel extra warm? (normal is around 101º) no, normal How many rounds of shots has he gotten? one round of shots on December 19th In consideration of his breed mix, I would make sure to time his last distemper/parvo vaccination to be given after his 16th week of age (at the same time as his rabies vac). ok...what is the rationalle for that, just curious Did he get a vaccination immediately before you took him home? no, almost a month ago How old did you say he was?? 9 weeks Do keep me posted...I certainly get anxious when I hear the words "sick puppy"...aak! well, I really don't think he's sick with a fever or anything but he could still have something in his stools, so we'll have that checked. He's playing like a kitten, pouncing on sticks and leaves and chasing after toys and generally either getting into trouble or looking for attention...typical puppy stuff. He is napping much better now. He'll nap for a full hour now whereas he was only taking 10 minute cat naps before and crying a lot. Today there was no crying at all and he is back on his food eating about 50/50 steamed rice and dry chow. One thing I thought of was that darn oil tablet the lady gave him at the rescue. I don't know how long she'd been giving it to him but those things are big and I'm sure it was like giving him cod liver oil twice a day. I've discontinued that entirely and today he is having better formed poos and not feeling the urgency to get outside. Ugh! It's a horrid day today... freezing rain so the deck where I was letting him out is thick with ice and the poor thing is terrified. I am too...afraid of falling that is so now I have to trapse him through the garage and out the back garage door onto MORE ice but at least if he falls he will fall only the ground and not off the edge of the deck. I'll pop back in with at "Pupdate" later and let you know what a second slide of his stools shows. Thanks so much, Barb & "Lake" When I foster puppies, I always have my vet tech/or vet if necessary on speed dial!! LOL!! I have the whole routine down...
...See More
Queen of the Month- Part Deux
Q
Comments (100)
Greetings once again from the Queen of May. The Good Queen Mother, Queen of March, AKA Treesa, sends her Tidings of Welcome to Deni, Queen of June. Her Highness bids you a most wonderfully enjoyable month and regrets that she is unable to post her welcome message herself because she also is suffering from computer difficulties which prevent the site pages from loading. In her letter to me she related how her beautiful backyard has become a pond, thanks to what seemed like endless rain through our dear state of SC. We were treated by Mother Nature to a straight week of rain before our annual steam cooker summer heat really kicked in. On the positive side, those rains eliminated the need to water potted plants three times daily. A week's break from that was welcomed, though it did not allow any much needed planting to be accomplished. The Queen of May still owes Thank You notes to the Queens mentioned in her previous post. She is still in a whirlwind of kid shuttling and limited in her computer time. She has not forgotten any of you.
...See More
More About Incompetent Elderly Drivers
Q
Comments (6)
Back in the early 80's I was driving truck for North American Van Lines - New Products Division, and we pulled 45' dry van box trailers primarily hauling carpet, furniture and new appliances from the point of manufacture to the retail stores. One day in mid June I was delivering water beds from California to a store in a large strip mall in Lexington, Ky. There was a roadway behind the strip mall that was clearly marked on both ends "Delivery Vehicles Only, No thru traffic". I pulled down the roadway and located the back door of the store where I was to deliver and I backed my trailer in close to the door. The store manager hired four temporary laborers and about 8am we started unloading. The guys were working exceptionally hard and by noon we had about 2/3 of the load off so I told them to take a break for lunch and I took them next door to a pizza place for lunch. When we returned to the store about 45 minutes later there was a cop standing by the desk in the store and he asked, "Who's driving that North American truck out back?" I said, "Its my truck, but nobody is driving it, it has been parked in the same place since 7am." The cop says, "Don't get smart with me buddy, I can see what happened here, you been in an accident and I need your information." I walked out back to see what he was talking about and sure enough, there was an elderly lady about 80 yrs old standing there looking a little ruffled, then I looked at the truck. The lady had driven her car completely under my trailer at a rather high speed. The entire windshield, windows and upper part of the passenger compartment was laying in a heap on the ground on the right side of the trailer, My spare tire rack had been ripped from under the trailer as well as the lower threshold of the trailer side door and the car had continued on another 30 or 40ft where it had crashed headlong into a huge concrete support for the overhead lighting in the parking area. Fortunately the lady had seen it coming and she quickly laid down across the console and passenger seat as the top of her car was ripped off. But there she was telling the cop that I had backed the trailer over her car, to which I replied, "Thats BS, that truck has been sitting right there since 7am and I have been to lunch!!" (i could just imagine what kind of hillbilly charges they were fixing to put on me) With that the cop looks at me and says "Let me handle this!", then he turned to the lady and says "Look lady, I came on duty at 7am and I made my first pass through here at 7:45 and that truck was sitting right there when I came through, in addition, this area is for delivery vehicles only, so you have no business even being here." A couple minutes later the lady goes over to the cop and says, "Officer, aren't those trucks supposed to have their parking lights on when they are parked that way?" I could just see the frustration building in the cop as he turned to her and said,"Lady, its noon on a bright sunny summer day with not a single cloud in the sky, if you can't see a 45' long, 13ft high semi trailer, I doubt seriously if you would see a parking light either, what I want you to do immediately is go over to whats left of your car and get me your drivers license, registration & proof of insurance, and don't come back until you have a much better story to tell me than what you have tried so far!!"
...See More
mariend
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I am not sure what the police can do "legally". Do you have a local judge you can talk to? I am NOT defending their actions, but not sure about the enforcement of the laws. Are you in a small city, large city etc. Talk to you Highway Patrol. Do you have friends in the country with a large barn? Hide the car. If the Dr. signed a medical release, contact the state licensing bureau for physicians. Let the dr and social service idiot know YOU will sue if he hurts or kills anyone. I do feel sorry for you because at the age of 76 I really know that many of us older people do not belong on the road. I see it all the time, but I do know that if it happens to either myself or my DH, we will stop driving and yes, here the policeman usually will not either give tickets or insist the old man or old lady stop driving.
Sending hugs.
rosemaryt
Original Author
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
He is 89 years old. I can't remove the cars from the property. That'd be grand theft auto and I know he'd have me arrested. He's already made it clear that he'd rather drive than have a relationship with his children.

There are so many reasons he should not be on the road.
littlebit_gw
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Mariend,
I am sure that if the police caught me
1. driving with no Driver's License and
2. driving with no plates on my car
that they could and WOULD legally give me a ticket and haul my tail into court so I could try to explain my actions.
They felt sorry for her dad let him off with a warning. He has promise everyone he would drive but continues to drive. You really think he will hold to his promise to the cops?

I would go to the police chief and discuss the situation with the him. Bring in a letter from the Dr and from anyone else that has told him not to drive. Bring in a neighbor if you have to.

Because if he kills someone and that family finds out he was out there driving when he wasn't suppose to, they may try to sue his family (YOU). So in the end it could all fall on your shoulders. GET MAD and SCREAM LOUD!!!

littlebit
monica_pa Grieves
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Write, then Call your District Attorney's office, and tell them your story about the police refusing to enforce the law, and that your father is a danger to himself and others.
foggyj
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I agree with littlebit, you must get to the highest authority on this. Going to the media is a good idea. Any lawsuit will be yours to deal with. I'd scream somewhere too.
pawsitive_gw
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Have you tried letting the air out of all the tires? Can you buy a "boot" like they put on cars for parking violations? How about jacking the car up and putting it on blocks and taking the wheels off? I'm going to be dealing with that soon with my dad, but long distance. I really feel for you.
dilly_dally
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
You say his license has been REVOKED. I do not see why he was not given a ticket. I would go to the higher ups. Somebody may get fired and that would be a good thing.
linda_in_iowa
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I would start with visiting or phoning the chief of police and district attorney. Then I would go to the media.
JoanMN
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Also write a letter to the editor of your local paper. Keep us posted on this.
JoanMN
Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Is there insurance on the car?
It would not pay anything if he has a wreck and has no license.
I would think if the insurance company knew he was driving it with a revoked license, that they would cancel the insurance.
In most states, if not all, a car cannot be licensed without having insurance carried on it.
If there is no insurance, then there is no license.
Could possibly the DMV help?
I think it might be time for a letter to the editor of your paper outlining their reason for refusing to ticket your father. Additionally, the car needs impounded, and/or put in safe keeping somewhere, so he cannot and will not be driving it again, and again.

I think it would also be advisable when you speak to anyone in authority, chief of police, or staff sergeant, to tell them that you would like to record whatever they have to say about a possible solution to the matter. That 'could' force them to take some serious action, knowing you were holding 'them' responsible for their actions.

Sue
gemini40
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
My advice,you have to take the dam car away, have it towed away somewhere. End of story.

june
rosemaryt
Original Author
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Having the cars towed away is not a feasible option. I would then be subject to arrest for car theft and my father *would* prosecute, I am sure.

Thanks for the responses. I have to wait until tomorrow to visit the chief of police and the district attorney.
foggyj
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
rosemaryt, good luck to you. It's such a hard spot to be in. ((((rosemaryt)))
mariend
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Just sending hugs and a BIG cup of tea for soothing nerves. Good luck.
Velleen78
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Gee I haven't had any of that trouble,but when it was time to renew in August I didn't do it. Dh will soon give his up also. We are both 84.
trinitytx
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
What a nightmare! I cannot imagine being in your shoes right now.
It sounds like a small town you are dealing with, or possible a small community within the town. What a hassle.
Where the heck is he headed in all of his adventures?
I can't imagine a grand theft auto charge would stick if you have proof he is driving illegally. It will however, make him madder than a hornet. Lord knows what he might try and pull to get even.
He needs a "Driving Mr. Daisy" moment. Only in the movies, I know.
Hugs and good luck, I have no idea what I would do. This is a tough one.

Trin
junkyardgirl
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Steal his car. If you really love him, ask him if you can borrow his car, and don't bring it back. If he's really senile, maybe he needs to be put into a facility.

I know if it was my father, I would just take his car and hide it and swear that he didn't know what he was talking about, and that the car must have been stolen.
junkyardgirl
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I know I sounded insensitive, and I'm sorry. I live in FL, and that is a big problem down here. So many people are killed every year by people who refuse to get off the roads, even without a license. I'm sure no judge in the country would convict you of stealing a car from a senile old man who has had his license revoked.

I used to work at a grocery store, and I was helping a woman to her car one day. She was telling us she was 102. I assumed someone had brought her, but she was driving. She could not even see to get the key into the car door. I went in and immediately called the Highway Patrol, gave them her name and her license number. I don't know what happened. I never saw her again.

The sad part is that when you take away their ability to drive, you take away the last little bit of independence they have. Many of them never recover from it. They say that after they take an elderly person's license, it is usually less than 2 years before they die.

I feel for you, and I'm so sorry that you're having to go through this.
mary_c_gw
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Rosemary,

Do go to the chief of police and the District Attorney, and try to get them involved. The cops SHOULD have done their damned jobs. Complain about this, and keep a journal of your father's known infractions. If you ever interact with a cop over this again, write down the name and badge number. Ask his neighbors to do the same. Bless them for calling 911.

You can try to have him hospitilized as a danger to himself or others, but that's a very complicated case to prove.

Other than that, I feel you have done every thing you possibly can do. You are not your father's legal guardian, so you can't be held responsible for his actions. You can't be sued for what another adult does. Don't let people here make you feel that you are responsible.

I agree with you - you can't steal the cars, and you can't damage them in a way that could get you arrested, even though that would be a benefit to the community. You could and would be arrested for stealing the cars, and I'm astonished at the people here for recommending such an action.
katclaws_mo
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Shave down the keys...if you can get your hands on them.

Call a mechanic & ask him what engine part(s) you can pull out of the car to keep it from running....wish I could think of the name of it.

Call the Alzheimer's Association asap...ask for their help!!!

Get him to talk with someone who has lost their loved one OR a family member of someone who has been seriously hurt by their own actions or another's due to dementia.

Contact you local media to bring attention to your situation.

I wish you the very best & I commend you for trying your best to protect the innocents out there.
donna37
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
katclaws, reading her entire post you can see she did disable his engine, and he got it repaired.

I would say contacting the media and telling them the police are not doing their job is a very good idea.

I'm sure if she spirited the car away and locked it up, they would waste no time in arresting her, after all she's not a 'pathetic old man and messed up in the head', she's an intelligent person.

Wonder what anyone on that police force would do if he ran over killed or injured a member of their family? Throw that into the mix.
sheesh
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Is it safe for him to live in a house? Is he alone? If his dementia is that far along, he needs more protection than he's getting, even if he isn't living alone. What about setting fires? Just because he hasn't yet, doesn't mean he won't. Wandering?

Something seems to be missing from the story....Removing the license plates doesn't make the plates invalid, so no offence there.

Not paying his insurance isn't the way to go. If he has an accident, the victims may be stuck, unless he has significant assets.

Matters may be out of his hands. A doctor and a nursing home will help you, Call the local Department of Aging.

I went through the same thing with my mother a year and a half ago. Help is out there. It's heartbreaking, but you have to do it.
grittymitts
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Super glue in all exterior door locks would keep him off the road...for awhile.

Bless you for trying!
Suzi
wildchild
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Do not write a letter to the Chief of Police. Insist on filing a formal complaint against the officers conduct with Internal Affairs. In many departments policy states that once a superior officer has handled it the case is closed. Internal Affairs can't touch it after that. Most times a superior officer handles it by just talking about the incident. Discipline is rarely if ever meted out.There is no record kept. An Internal Affairs complaint at least stays on the record.

Then if you want go to the media and tell your story if they will hear it. But first get down to the local department and file that report with IA.

You can also take some of the neighbors with you and take the matter up at the next city council meeting.

Document Document Document. If your dad hurts or kills someone some lawyer may go after the deep pockets and they may well be yours. Criminally you would of course not be libel but civil suits are filed every day against innocent bystanders. Protect yourself.
wildchild
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Also want to add that you should try to disable the car somehow. Steal the battery, cut the wires, pull some fuses,without knowing the make and model I can't be more specific.

You can't be charged with the crime if you aren't caught and with all the neighbors who don't want him driving he can't prove it was you.

Steal the keys. Fill the locks with superglue if you have. Get that man off the road.
sheesh
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
I would take advice only from a lawyer or other qualified person or department, not just people who mean well or who have "been there done that."

We don't live in a police state and cannot expect the police to take care of everything. People turning in other people for suspected violations.... We don't really want that. Police "give breaks" to drivers all the time...I've had a couple myself. He must have been coherent and plausible to the officers. How did you happen to be at the scene to talk to the officers? I am surprised they let him go on the revocation. Was it actually revoked by the state?

I understand that your dad's license was apparently revoked, that you feel the police gave him a break that could prove dangerous, that a social worker said he's competant. But, people have fender-benders and kill dogs all the time, and don't lose their licences.

I hope nothing bad happens, but you have to breathe deep and think of other ways to protect him and the community. How does he pay his bills? Grocery shop? Prepare his meals?Maintain his premises and hygiene? Manage his many medications? If he is functional in all those respects...well, it looks like he still gets to drive, unless his licence is really revoked. I am still surprised the cops let him go on that one.
ruthieg__tx
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
It sounds to me like you are trying to get the Police to do a job that the family should be doing for your Father. It is simple...You have made excuse after excuse as to why you can't do anything and yet you are not willing to concede that the police or emergency people might have difficulty.

Take the damned car away from your dad.

We went through the same thing with my Dad, He didn't like it, he was pissed at everyone ........my Dad was a mechanic and spent the last years of his life thinking he was going to get that truck fixed. It actually gave him something to do everyday and my Brothers saw to it that it was never fixed. If he will call the repair people then haul the car off...Don't say you can't get the keys because you can...Step up to the plate and take responsibility before he does kill someone or himself. I went to visit one weekend and My Mother had a black eye and it was because my Dad slammed on his brakes because he didn't see the truck in front of him.. When I saw my Mothers eye, I knew that my Dad was never going to drive again and I called my brothers and we solved the problem. My Mother, your Mother anyone's Mother could be next...
Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
We don't live in a police state and cannot expect the police to take care of everything.
Can't we expect the law enforcement officers to enforce the laws?

The OP said, "His license was revoked but he still drives.

He was caught driving on a revoked license.

She also said, "Despite all this and despite my pleading (and my neighbor's pleading) with the Police for a full 40 mintues and giving them the full history of what we've done to TRY and keep him from driving, our "finest" refused to:
1) Write a traffic citation
2) Write a criminal citation
3) Impound the car.

If the law was to do any of the above, the problem could and would likely in time be solved. If they did not impound the car the first time, they might after subsequent violations.

Sue
rosemaryt
Original Author
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Thanks for the helpful comments.

And to those who are claiming this is a family affair, read a little more before being so accusatory, please!

The cars HAVE been disabled. I have two years of auto tech and I know how to disable a car. It doesn't matter. He has them repaired. i went to his mechanics and told them not to repair his cars. He found new mechanics.

Keys have been taken. He has spares. The spares are hidden and locked away. I turned that house upside down and inside out and I found several things LOCKED UP that had not been locked before. I suspect he's got some keys in those places. I even tried to jimmy the locks but to no avail. It doesn't matter. He saw this coming and he prepared for it. I'm sure he's got keys hidden out in the flowerbeds. I won't find all his keys.

License plates were removed. Doesn't matter. He drives without plates. Cops have been called again and again. They finally caught him yesterday and did NOTHING.

Now I ask, if you or me were driving a car with NO license plates and on a revoked driver's license, what do you think would happen to us?

He's been declared medically competent by a social worker who visited his home for that purpose. There are legal limits as to what I can do.

If I had the cars removed, I'd be guilty of grand theft auto. And if I had the cars removed, he'd buy new ones. Yes, I'm serious. He has the money to do so.

I posted here for two reasons:
1) a little handholding and a wee hug
2) Need new ideas.

This is a mess. If you haven't dealt with an angry, half-crazy old man who refuses to quit driving, don't you *dare* tell me that I haven't done enough.

The posts above spell out 10% of what I've done. I've also had countless people talk to my father and visit my father and try to get him off the road.

The police were our last hope. And they refused to arrest him.

One hint, if you see a 1966 Cadillac convertible headed your way, watch out. That's his favorite Cadillac.
jayokie
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Rosemary, I'm so sorry you're having to fight such a battle. You're right..if you, I, other posters were driving with no plates on the car (in my state they have to be ON the car), revoked license, etc. we'd be walking home...and finding a way to a court room to explain our actions.

IMO, my dad drove longer than he should have. Thankfully, my mom knew when it was not safe for her to drive & gave it up. She reknews her license when needed for ID purposes only. (easier than switching to a state issued ID-only)

I agree with others who said (1) go to IA (2) document til you're even more blue in the face than you are now...dates/
names/badge numbers/witnesses. (3) have neighbors & others who know the situation write letters to that affect. (4) if all else fails....go to the media.

Please know many of us care (hugs)
sheesh
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Indeed, many of us have had to stop our parents from driving, myself among them. And I dread the day my kids have to do the same for me.

Among the problems you face, the elderly individual who suffers from mental incapacity for any reason does not know he suffers from it. That is why your dad insists on driving. If he has memory problems, he cannot remember that he has driving problems. Being argumentative doesn't mean he understands. As we age, we tend to keep our personalities, even as we lose our memory.

I still don't understand why the police let him go if his drivers license has been revoked by the state. That is the only thing you have to go on. As for the plates, as long as the car is properly registerd, the police computers will indicate that the car isn't stolen and usually the cops will let you go on that one, with an admonishment to take care of the matter immediately. All the other evidence is hearsay, and inadmissable. If the police truly ignored the revocation of the license, you should pursue that matter.

You're fighting a battle of wills now. Disabling the car and his subsequent repairs will never solve the problem. You need legal advice now. Or, you can let him continue, knowing you did everything you could think of, and let the chips fall where they may.
wantoretire_did
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Rosemaryt -

You are obviously shoveling against the tide and not making any headway at all. You cannot deal rationally with an irrational person. I certainly wouldn't accept the "evaluation" of a social worker and his doctor (is the doc friendly with the police, or an old friend?).

Competency evaluations are conducted by specialized physicians. I would consult with an attorney who specializes in elder matters and get a recommendation from him/her for a physician who does the same.

This is more than can be handled by family, as you have shown. You've certainly done your best, but its time to haul out the big guns.
junkyardgirl
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Rosemary,
I was going to send this to you privately, but you have no contact link in your profile.

I used to work for an attorney. I called him and talked to him about this. He says that despite what the social worker said, you should try to have him declared a danger to himself or others. He says that you can subpoena the officers to testify that they have caught him driving under suspension, and did nothing. The judge will commit him to a mental hospital for 72 hours to make the assessment, but if they declare him a danger, you will have some power to do something. He says that then you should ask for guardianship, so that he will have no access to resources other than what is necessary for his survival. That way, he will not be able to buy another car. I know it's hard to think of having your father committed, but it's only for 3 days, and it could save his life or someone else's.

((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))
sjerin
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
You haven't said whether or not you've contacted a columnist from your paper. This is the kind of story I think most would be happy to run, and if that is the case, watch heads roll.
lilliepad
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
Rosemary-I was about to suggest what Junkyardgirl said.I went through somewhat the same thing with my dad.Social workers and family doctors are not trained to evaluate in circumstances such as your dads.Find someone who is trained in that field.
I have to say that I don't agree with everyone about contacting the media.That might well bring attention to the lack of competence in the police department (that can be handled in another way) but it would also be embarrassing for your father,you and other family members.Please do what junkyardgirl suggested.It will be hard but you must think of your dad and innocent people who could be in danger because he is driving.You would never forgive yourself if there was a tragic accident.I know you love your dad but sometimes we have to be the parents,even if it hurts.Believe me,I do understand what you are going through.I will be praying for you and your dad.
((((((Rosemary))))))
cynic
17 years ago
last modified: 11 years ago
rosemaryt, you have a tough situation and my heart goes out to you. Best wishes in a successful resolution to the problem.

This is a very frustrating thread to read. People screaming for you to go commit a felony makes me just shake my head in disbelief. Laws vary from state to state so when you get "armchair lawyers", including myself, giving you advice, take it for ideas only since your situation will vary.

A few things do come to mind though. First, the police are sympathetic and in fact, that's good for the public as a whole but doesn't help for this situation. Now you need a "hot dog" cop, but the problem is to find one. There are other options though, again however it varies in different jurisdictions. One is a "citizen complaint", "criminal complaint" or citizen's arrest. You need guidance to do this properly and if appropriate but seems to me that it could in this case.

I'd doubt very highly you'd get him committed for evaluation with the adverse positions of the doctor and social worker. However if he is truly senile, and it's documented, then a guardianship is a definite possibility. But an involuntary guardianship is not easy, and rightly so. But you might be able to propose a temporary guardianship, a conservatorship or something to get a start. This won't be quick most likely, but is an option to consider. In MN, starting a guardianship proceeding would be more likely to get an eval ordered. Again, your state will vary.

I hope you're paying no attention to the fools who suggest that you will be financially responsible for his actions. Good grief where do people get these ideas? That's stupid, plain and simple. C'mon folks, she needs help, support and ideas, not ridiculous ramblings. I suppose someone will running offended and I'll get a friendly reminder but so be it. It needed to be said.

Likewise that you'll force a cop to do something, that you can sue the cops if something happens down the road and well, it's a highly emotional situation and obviously many people aren't thinking clearly. People watch too much "Boston Legal" or something and want to threaten to sue for anything thinking that people will cringe and fold. It may work with someone who doesn't know better, but threatening people that know better doesn't do anything more than make the person making the threat look like a complete idiot. Don't get caught up in that. It won't work.

Also, I agree you should keep the insurance on the vehicle. I'd even go so far as to make sure the vehicles are, in fact insured. You insure the vehicle primarily so if in fact he has no valid license likely won't affect the insurance at least until he gets into an accident or ticket, at which time the company likely would cancel the coverage.

Newspapers, TV, radio, media as a whole... well, this isn't a huge story in news terms but someone might be interested. But I think I'd pursue it with low expectations.

Disabling the car hasn't worked. So you need a different plan of attack. Take a deep breath and try to relax. I know it's easier said than done though. Obviously you can't be following him around all over, first because you don't have the time and secondly you could be guilty of stalking if he is angry enough to push it, which he may well be. But a private security firm or private investigator is able to, but of course that will cost something. They can gather evidence, video his operation and even be able to make a complaint, though I'm not sure that many would want to get that involved. I could contact my former PI firm and see if they have any suggestions but since the laws vary, I think you'd be better off to seek some guidance locally. Most good places won't charge you to talk to you about the case and give you some ideas.

Again, my best to you and yours. If I think of anything else I'll post again. I know what a tough situation it is. And my experience wasn't quite as drastic as yours, though my dad should have quit driving 20 years earlier. But that's a whole different story.

Getting Elderly Drivers Off The Road, Part Deux

Comments (38)

Related Discussions

rosemarytOriginal Author

rosemarytOriginal Author

rosemarytOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

rosemaryt
Original Author

rosemaryt
Original Author

rosemaryt
Original Author