I'd go to the media NOW, and not wait for someone to be harmed or killed. I think it may put more pressure on the cops to do their job.
Leslie

You're right to go to the chief of police, or staff sergeant. The attending police officer does not have the last say.

I am not sure what the police can do "legally". Do you have a local judge you can talk to? I am NOT defending their actions, but not sure about the enforcement of the laws. Are you in a small city, large city etc. Talk to you Highway Patrol. Do you have friends in the country with a large barn? Hide the car. If the Dr. signed a medical release, contact the state licensing bureau for physicians. Let the dr and social service idiot know YOU will sue if he hurts or kills anyone. I do feel sorry for you because at the age of 76 I really know that many of us older people do not belong on the road. I see it all the time, but I do know that if it happens to either myself or my DH, we will stop driving and yes, here the policeman usually will not either give tickets or insist the old man or old lady stop driving.
Sending hugs.

He is 89 years old. I can't remove the cars from the property. That'd be grand theft auto and I know he'd have me arrested. He's already made it clear that he'd rather drive than have a relationship with his children.

There are so many reasons he should not be on the road.

Mariend,
I am sure that if the police caught me

1. driving with no Driver's License and
2. driving with no plates on my car

that they could and WOULD legally give me a ticket and haul my tail into court so I could try to explain my actions.
They felt sorry for her dad let him off with a warning. He has promise everyone he would drive but continues to drive. You really think he will hold to his promise to the cops?

I would go to the police chief and discuss the situation with the him. Bring in a letter from the Dr and from anyone else that has told him not to drive. Bring in a neighbor if you have to.

Because if he kills someone and that family finds out he was out there driving when he wasn't suppose to, they may try to sue his family (YOU). So in the end it could all fall on your shoulders. GET MAD and SCREAM LOUD!!!

littlebit

Write, then Call your District Attorney's office, and tell them your story about the police refusing to enforce the law, and that your father is a danger to himself and others.

I agree with littlebit, you must get to the highest authority on this. Going to the media is a good idea. Any lawsuit will be yours to deal with. I'd scream somewhere too.

Have you tried letting the air out of all the tires? Can you buy a "boot" like they put on cars for parking violations? How about jacking the car up and putting it on blocks and taking the wheels off? I'm going to be dealing with that soon with my dad, but long distance. I really feel for you.

You say his license has been REVOKED. I do not see why he was not given a ticket. I would go to the higher ups. Somebody may get fired and that would be a good thing.

I would start with visiting or phoning the chief of police and district attorney. Then I would go to the media.

Also write a letter to the editor of your local paper. Keep us posted on this.
JoanMN

Is there insurance on the car?
It would not pay anything if he has a wreck and has no license.
I would think if the insurance company knew he was driving it with a revoked license, that they would cancel the insurance.
In most states, if not all, a car cannot be licensed without having insurance carried on it.
If there is no insurance, then there is no license.
Could possibly the DMV help?
I think it might be time for a letter to the editor of your paper outlining their reason for refusing to ticket your father. Additionally, the car needs impounded, and/or put in safe keeping somewhere, so he cannot and will not be driving it again, and again.

I think it would also be advisable when you speak to anyone in authority, chief of police, or staff sergeant, to tell them that you would like to record whatever they have to say about a possible solution to the matter. That 'could' force them to take some serious action, knowing you were holding 'them' responsible for their actions.

Sue

My advice,you have to take the dam car away, have it towed away somewhere. End of story.

june

Having the cars towed away is not a feasible option. I would then be subject to arrest for car theft and my father *would* prosecute, I am sure.

Thanks for the responses. I have to wait until tomorrow to visit the chief of police and the district attorney.

rosemaryt, good luck to you. It's such a hard spot to be in. ((((rosemaryt)))

Just sending hugs and a BIG cup of tea for soothing nerves. Good luck.

Gee I haven't had any of that trouble,but when it was time to renew in August I didn't do it. Dh will soon give his up also. We are both 84.

What a nightmare! I cannot imagine being in your shoes right now.
It sounds like a small town you are dealing with, or possible a small community within the town. What a hassle.
Where the heck is he headed in all of his adventures?
I can't imagine a grand theft auto charge would stick if you have proof he is driving illegally. It will however, make him madder than a hornet. Lord knows what he might try and pull to get even.
He needs a "Driving Mr. Daisy" moment. Only in the movies, I know.
Hugs and good luck, I have no idea what I would do. This is a tough one.

Trin

Steal his car. If you really love him, ask him if you can borrow his car, and don't bring it back. If he's really senile, maybe he needs to be put into a facility.

I know if it was my father, I would just take his car and hide it and swear that he didn't know what he was talking about, and that the car must have been stolen.

I know I sounded insensitive, and I'm sorry. I live in FL, and that is a big problem down here. So many people are killed every year by people who refuse to get off the roads, even without a license. I'm sure no judge in the country would convict you of stealing a car from a senile old man who has had his license revoked.

I used to work at a grocery store, and I was helping a woman to her car one day. She was telling us she was 102. I assumed someone had brought her, but she was driving. She could not even see to get the key into the car door. I went in and immediately called the Highway Patrol, gave them her name and her license number. I don't know what happened. I never saw her again.

The sad part is that when you take away their ability to drive, you take away the last little bit of independence they have. Many of them never recover from it. They say that after they take an elderly person's license, it is usually less than 2 years before they die.

I feel for you, and I'm so sorry that you're having to go through this.

Rosemary,

Do go to the chief of police and the District Attorney, and try to get them involved. The cops SHOULD have done their damned jobs. Complain about this, and keep a journal of your father's known infractions. If you ever interact with a cop over this again, write down the name and badge number. Ask his neighbors to do the same. Bless them for calling 911.

You can try to have him hospitilized as a danger to himself or others, but that's a very complicated case to prove.

Other than that, I feel you have done every thing you possibly can do. You are not your father's legal guardian, so you can't be held responsible for his actions. You can't be sued for what another adult does. Don't let people here make you feel that you are responsible.

I agree with you - you can't steal the cars, and you can't damage them in a way that could get you arrested, even though that would be a benefit to the community. You could and would be arrested for stealing the cars, and I'm astonished at the people here for recommending such an action.

Shave down the keys...if you can get your hands on them.

Call a mechanic & ask him what engine part(s) you can pull out of the car to keep it from running....wish I could think of the name of it.

Call the Alzheimer's Association asap...ask for their help!!!

Get him to talk with someone who has lost their loved one OR a family member of someone who has been seriously hurt by their own actions or another's due to dementia.

Contact you local media to bring attention to your situation.

I wish you the very best & I commend you for trying your best to protect the innocents out there.

katclaws, reading her entire post you can see she did disable his engine, and he got it repaired.

I would say contacting the media and telling them the police are not doing their job is a very good idea.

I'm sure if she spirited the car away and locked it up, they would waste no time in arresting her, after all she's not a 'pathetic old man and messed up in the head', she's an intelligent person.

Wonder what anyone on that police force would do if he ran over killed or injured a member of their family? Throw that into the mix.

Is it safe for him to live in a house? Is he alone? If his dementia is that far along, he needs more protection than he's getting, even if he isn't living alone. What about setting fires? Just because he hasn't yet, doesn't mean he won't. Wandering?

Something seems to be missing from the story....Removing the license plates doesn't make the plates invalid, so no offence there.

Not paying his insurance isn't the way to go. If he has an accident, the victims may be stuck, unless he has significant assets.

Matters may be out of his hands. A doctor and a nursing home will help you, Call the local Department of Aging.

I went through the same thing with my mother a year and a half ago. Help is out there. It's heartbreaking, but you have to do it.

Super glue in all exterior door locks would keep him off the road...for awhile.

Bless you for trying!
Suzi

Do not write a letter to the Chief of Police. Insist on filing a formal complaint against the officers conduct with Internal Affairs. In many departments policy states that once a superior officer has handled it the case is closed. Internal Affairs can't touch it after that. Most times a superior officer handles it by just talking about the incident. Discipline is rarely if ever meted out.There is no record kept. An Internal Affairs complaint at least stays on the record.

Then if you want go to the media and tell your story if they will hear it. But first get down to the local department and file that report with IA.

You can also take some of the neighbors with you and take the matter up at the next city council meeting.

Document Document Document. If your dad hurts or kills someone some lawyer may go after the deep pockets and they may well be yours. Criminally you would of course not be libel but civil suits are filed every day against innocent bystanders. Protect yourself.

Also want to add that you should try to disable the car somehow. Steal the battery, cut the wires, pull some fuses,without knowing the make and model I can't be more specific.

You can't be charged with the crime if you aren't caught and with all the neighbors who don't want him driving he can't prove it was you.

Steal the keys. Fill the locks with superglue if you have. Get that man off the road.

I would take advice only from a lawyer or other qualified person or department, not just people who mean well or who have "been there done that."

We don't live in a police state and cannot expect the police to take care of everything. People turning in other people for suspected violations.... We don't really want that. Police "give breaks" to drivers all the time...I've had a couple myself. He must have been coherent and plausible to the officers. How did you happen to be at the scene to talk to the officers? I am surprised they let him go on the revocation. Was it actually revoked by the state?

I understand that your dad's license was apparently revoked, that you feel the police gave him a break that could prove dangerous, that a social worker said he's competant. But, people have fender-benders and kill dogs all the time, and don't lose their licences.

I hope nothing bad happens, but you have to breathe deep and think of other ways to protect him and the community. How does he pay his bills? Grocery shop? Prepare his meals?Maintain his premises and hygiene? Manage his many medications? If he is functional in all those respects...well, it looks like he still gets to drive, unless his licence is really revoked. I am still surprised the cops let him go on that one.

It sounds to me like you are trying to get the Police to do a job that the family should be doing for your Father. It is simple...You have made excuse after excuse as to why you can't do anything and yet you are not willing to concede that the police or emergency people might have difficulty.

Take the damned car away from your dad.

We went through the same thing with my Dad, He didn't like it, he was pissed at everyone ........my Dad was a mechanic and spent the last years of his life thinking he was going to get that truck fixed. It actually gave him something to do everyday and my Brothers saw to it that it was never fixed. If he will call the repair people then haul the car off...Don't say you can't get the keys because you can...Step up to the plate and take responsibility before he does kill someone or himself. I went to visit one weekend and My Mother had a black eye and it was because my Dad slammed on his brakes because he didn't see the truck in front of him.. When I saw my Mothers eye, I knew that my Dad was never going to drive again and I called my brothers and we solved the problem. My Mother, your Mother anyone's Mother could be next...

We don't live in a police state and cannot expect the police to take care of everything.
Can't we expect the law enforcement officers to enforce the laws?

The OP said, "His license was revoked but he still drives.

He was caught driving on a revoked license.

She also said, "Despite all this and despite my pleading (and my neighbor's pleading) with the Police for a full 40 mintues and giving them the full history of what we've done to TRY and keep him from driving, our "finest" refused to:
1) Write a traffic citation
2) Write a criminal citation
3) Impound the car.

If the law was to do any of the above, the problem could and would likely in time be solved. If they did not impound the car the first time, they might after subsequent violations.

Sue

Thanks for the helpful comments.

And to those who are claiming this is a family affair, read a little more before being so accusatory, please!

The cars HAVE been disabled. I have two years of auto tech and I know how to disable a car. It doesn't matter. He has them repaired. i went to his mechanics and told them not to repair his cars. He found new mechanics.

Keys have been taken. He has spares. The spares are hidden and locked away. I turned that house upside down and inside out and I found several things LOCKED UP that had not been locked before. I suspect he's got some keys in those places. I even tried to jimmy the locks but to no avail. It doesn't matter. He saw this coming and he prepared for it. I'm sure he's got keys hidden out in the flowerbeds. I won't find all his keys.

License plates were removed. Doesn't matter. He drives without plates. Cops have been called again and again. They finally caught him yesterday and did NOTHING.

Now I ask, if you or me were driving a car with NO license plates and on a revoked driver's license, what do you think would happen to us?

He's been declared medically competent by a social worker who visited his home for that purpose. There are legal limits as to what I can do.

If I had the cars removed, I'd be guilty of grand theft auto. And if I had the cars removed, he'd buy new ones. Yes, I'm serious. He has the money to do so.

I posted here for two reasons:
1) a little handholding and a wee hug
2) Need new ideas.

This is a mess. If you haven't dealt with an angry, half-crazy old man who refuses to quit driving, don't you *dare* tell me that I haven't done enough.

The posts above spell out 10% of what I've done. I've also had countless people talk to my father and visit my father and try to get him off the road.

The police were our last hope. And they refused to arrest him.

One hint, if you see a 1966 Cadillac convertible headed your way, watch out. That's his favorite Cadillac.

Rosemary, I'm so sorry you're having to fight such a battle. You're right..if you, I, other posters were driving with no plates on the car (in my state they have to be ON the car), revoked license, etc. we'd be walking home...and finding a way to a court room to explain our actions.

IMO, my dad drove longer than he should have. Thankfully, my mom knew when it was not safe for her to drive & gave it up. She reknews her license when needed for ID purposes only. (easier than switching to a state issued ID-only)

I agree with others who said (1) go to IA (2) document til you're even more blue in the face than you are now...dates/
names/badge numbers/witnesses. (3) have neighbors & others who know the situation write letters to that affect. (4) if all else fails....go to the media.

Please know many of us care (hugs)

Indeed, many of us have had to stop our parents from driving, myself among them. And I dread the day my kids have to do the same for me.

Among the problems you face, the elderly individual who suffers from mental incapacity for any reason does not know he suffers from it. That is why your dad insists on driving. If he has memory problems, he cannot remember that he has driving problems. Being argumentative doesn't mean he understands. As we age, we tend to keep our personalities, even as we lose our memory.

I still don't understand why the police let him go if his drivers license has been revoked by the state. That is the only thing you have to go on. As for the plates, as long as the car is properly registerd, the police computers will indicate that the car isn't stolen and usually the cops will let you go on that one, with an admonishment to take care of the matter immediately. All the other evidence is hearsay, and inadmissable. If the police truly ignored the revocation of the license, you should pursue that matter.

You're fighting a battle of wills now. Disabling the car and his subsequent repairs will never solve the problem. You need legal advice now. Or, you can let him continue, knowing you did everything you could think of, and let the chips fall where they may.

Rosemaryt -

You are obviously shoveling against the tide and not making any headway at all. You cannot deal rationally with an irrational person. I certainly wouldn't accept the "evaluation" of a social worker and his doctor (is the doc friendly with the police, or an old friend?).

Competency evaluations are conducted by specialized physicians. I would consult with an attorney who specializes in elder matters and get a recommendation from him/her for a physician who does the same.

This is more than can be handled by family, as you have shown. You've certainly done your best, but its time to haul out the big guns.

Rosemary,
I was going to send this to you privately, but you have no contact link in your profile.

I used to work for an attorney. I called him and talked to him about this. He says that despite what the social worker said, you should try to have him declared a danger to himself or others. He says that you can subpoena the officers to testify that they have caught him driving under suspension, and did nothing. The judge will commit him to a mental hospital for 72 hours to make the assessment, but if they declare him a danger, you will have some power to do something. He says that then you should ask for guardianship, so that he will have no access to resources other than what is necessary for his survival. That way, he will not be able to buy another car. I know it's hard to think of having your father committed, but it's only for 3 days, and it could save his life or someone else's.

((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))

You haven't said whether or not you've contacted a columnist from your paper. This is the kind of story I think most would be happy to run, and if that is the case, watch heads roll.

Rosemary-I was about to suggest what Junkyardgirl said.I went through somewhat the same thing with my dad.Social workers and family doctors are not trained to evaluate in circumstances such as your dads.Find someone who is trained in that field.
I have to say that I don't agree with everyone about contacting the media.That might well bring attention to the lack of competence in the police department (that can be handled in another way) but it would also be embarrassing for your father,you and other family members.Please do what junkyardgirl suggested.It will be hard but you must think of your dad and innocent people who could be in danger because he is driving.You would never forgive yourself if there was a tragic accident.I know you love your dad but sometimes we have to be the parents,even if it hurts.Believe me,I do understand what you are going through.I will be praying for you and your dad.
((((((Rosemary))))))

rosemaryt, you have a tough situation and my heart goes out to you. Best wishes in a successful resolution to the problem.

This is a very frustrating thread to read. People screaming for you to go commit a felony makes me just shake my head in disbelief. Laws vary from state to state so when you get "armchair lawyers", including myself, giving you advice, take it for ideas only since your situation will vary.

A few things do come to mind though. First, the police are sympathetic and in fact, that's good for the public as a whole but doesn't help for this situation. Now you need a "hot dog" cop, but the problem is to find one. There are other options though, again however it varies in different jurisdictions. One is a "citizen complaint", "criminal complaint" or citizen's arrest. You need guidance to do this properly and if appropriate but seems to me that it could in this case.

I'd doubt very highly you'd get him committed for evaluation with the adverse positions of the doctor and social worker. However if he is truly senile, and it's documented, then a guardianship is a definite possibility. But an involuntary guardianship is not easy, and rightly so. But you might be able to propose a temporary guardianship, a conservatorship or something to get a start. This won't be quick most likely, but is an option to consider. In MN, starting a guardianship proceeding would be more likely to get an eval ordered. Again, your state will vary.

I hope you're paying no attention to the fools who suggest that you will be financially responsible for his actions. Good grief where do people get these ideas? That's stupid, plain and simple. C'mon folks, she needs help, support and ideas, not ridiculous ramblings. I suppose someone will running offended and I'll get a friendly reminder but so be it. It needed to be said.

Likewise that you'll force a cop to do something, that you can sue the cops if something happens down the road and well, it's a highly emotional situation and obviously many people aren't thinking clearly. People watch too much "Boston Legal" or something and want to threaten to sue for anything thinking that people will cringe and fold. It may work with someone who doesn't know better, but threatening people that know better doesn't do anything more than make the person making the threat look like a complete idiot. Don't get caught up in that. It won't work.

Also, I agree you should keep the insurance on the vehicle. I'd even go so far as to make sure the vehicles are, in fact insured. You insure the vehicle primarily so if in fact he has no valid license likely won't affect the insurance at least until he gets into an accident or ticket, at which time the company likely would cancel the coverage.

Newspapers, TV, radio, media as a whole... well, this isn't a huge story in news terms but someone might be interested. But I think I'd pursue it with low expectations.

Disabling the car hasn't worked. So you need a different plan of attack. Take a deep breath and try to relax. I know it's easier said than done though. Obviously you can't be following him around all over, first because you don't have the time and secondly you could be guilty of stalking if he is angry enough to push it, which he may well be. But a private security firm or private investigator is able to, but of course that will cost something. They can gather evidence, video his operation and even be able to make a complaint, though I'm not sure that many would want to get that involved. I could contact my former PI firm and see if they have any suggestions but since the laws vary, I think you'd be better off to seek some guidance locally. Most good places won't charge you to talk to you about the case and give you some ideas.

Again, my best to you and yours. If I think of anything else I'll post again. I know what a tough situation it is. And my experience wasn't quite as drastic as yours, though my dad should have quit driving 20 years earlier. But that's a whole different story.