Bipolar is treatable. Talk to her counselor and ask for advice. I can't tell you what to do. It may be time for "tough love" i.e. don't see her or give her money unless she goes to all her appointments and stays on the appropriate meds. Good luck. I will be praying for all of you. I know this is terrible for you. I have seen this before. God bless.

My thoughts & prayers go out to you & your DD. I have gone through similar things with my son over the yrs. but he has different, difficult mental problems & always will. I know these things are so hard to live with & affect the whole family. (((Jannie & Family)))

I'm so sorry your going through this. Its got to be awful hard.
I wish I could offer a magic solution. You're on the right track and Jannie has a good idea there. If she won't get the help for herself, try and make it something she must do in order to have any of the things she enjoys.
I'll be thinking of you!

If your DD is Bipolar the best time to get her to act positively (IE seeing the DR.) is when she's down. During a manic cycle there is no reasoning with them. They are ready to listen just after a crash. If a person is a "rapid cycler" it is very difficult to catch that window of opportunity.

In the meantime you need to get the tools do deal with these behaviors for yourself. If you haven't already done so please contact your local NAMI chapter.

Here is a link that might be useful: NAMI

OK I re-read your post and now I have to rant somewhat. She is 16. You are allowing her to manipulate you. Darn right you have parental control unless she has been emancipated which is doubtful since she is not self-supporting and lives under your roof.

Who pays for her social life? Does she hold a job? Who pays for her transportation? Who buys her clothes? Her food?

She doesn't feel like seeing her therapist? Too bad. You don't feel like letting her go to the mall or whatever then.

Time for some tough love. You need to get some counseling for yourself and learn how to deal with her. It's OK if she hates you for it. You have 2 years to make a difference.

If you don't at best she'll get herself knocked up. At the middle she'll be out getting into one abusive relationship after another, prostituting herself, develop a gambling habit or become a druggie or an alcoholic or several of the above. At worst she'll be dead.

Prayer ain't gonna do it. You have to do it. Get in touch with NAMI and a Tough Love chapter NOW. You're letting your child (and she is still a child) call the shots.

And if you have a therapist who doesn't set boundaries for DD you need a different therapist.

Bipolar people in general are very smart and can be extremely manipulative. DD is playing you all like a fiddle. Let me tell you something. Mentally balanced people experiment with drugs and alcohol. Bipolar people self-medicate. She stayed clean during probation to avoid lock-up. Means nothing in the long run. Everyone in the system can get clean or find God or whatever when it suits their purpose.

My heart goes out to you but you can't just sit back and expect it to get fixed. Even with therapy and meds Bipolar and other brain chemistry disorders are a lifelong battle. We have a sweet poster right here on this board who can tell you that better than I can.

I've posted this on the premise that your DD is in fact Bipolar. Of course without a proper Psychiatric evaluation it is the big unknown.

It could be just that your kid is a strong willed difficult child who walks all over you. Somehow I doubt that.

Your DD can't help herself if she is ill.She is not hateful because she wants to be. She's hurting. It is up to you to help her while you still legally can.

Please Please take some action for yourself and your DD.

wildchild - thank you for the link. As I expected, there are no local chapters near us. I regret the move we made here 26 years ago. It's a wonderful place to raise small children but there's nothing for teenagers and adults. We have one of the highest unemployment rates in the state. One of my sons, a roofer, has had it rough for over a year now. My other son was laid off last year and is working about a 30 hr week. We're loosing industry left and right. The Dye Plant, sewing factory, elastic factory, 1 peanut plant, boat plant... this in a county of less than 20,000 people, many of them who worked in these plants. All gone! But, that's another story, isn't it. Just an idea of how hard it is to get help here and in our surrounding counties. If I weren't so secure in the fact that my home is paid for, I'd leave. Hate to see my grandchildren grow up here and fear for my daughters future in this regard as well. Sorry, I strayed so far.

As far as "rapid cycling", I think that fits DD so well. Other times I am just so confused where she fits into all this, or if she even does. We are in family counseling and DD and her problems are always the topic of discussion, mostly revolving around the bipolar topic. Of course I realize that there is no "one size fits all" diagnose for bipolar disorder and thats what makes this all so puzzling.

For those of you that have had to deal with these problems, forgive me for saying so, but often I wonder about ADD, bipolar and similar disorders and think that these are just a bunch of spoiled undisciplined kids. I do realize that there are people with real true problems, but what is it that makes ADD and bipolar so high on Doctors diagnosis lists these days? I just wish I could get a true understanding of why there is so many problems in the world today.

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that DD was not ADHD or that she is not bipolar, I just want to know WHY it affects so many people in our society today. Yes, I understand population explosion and environmental concerns regarding little girls starting their periods early but this seems different. Look how many kids in school are having problems. 17 years ago when my oldest son started highschool, there were a handful of problem children. Now, in the same highschool, there are a handful that aren't a problem in some way. Is some of this just attitude? Do children believe they are "owed" something? Is it because parents are too busy and too quick to let bad behavior continue? I can't even answer these questions regarding my own child because many of the poor decisions I've made has been because of what I call her "difficult" personality. And at times I wonder if I'm not the reason that she's so difficult. It goes back too many years for me to attempt to reason it out.

wildchild - thanks for your second post. I was responding at the time.

You've hit the nail on the head somewhat. Yes, DD manipulates me big time. This is something that we spend a lot of time in counseling discussing. Depending on the situation, I do let her get away with it, other things I don't. There are even times when I know that I shouldn't allow it, I do. My greatest fear right now is alienating her for life. Go over to the parenting forum and see topic after topic of parents being estranged from their children. This isn't just some fearful fantasy that I've created in my mind, but a true concern. When DD dislikes someone, she dislikes them for life. She hasn't spoken to her dad a dozen times since June, and he wasn't the one that "had ruined her life". It was me that took action.

I try a light-handed approach and usually it will work. Sometimes it doesn't. It may have taken me 5 months to get her to make that appt with the Dr. although she cancelled it. She could cancel this next one. But, what I know without a doubt is if I try to heavyhand it, she'll fight back. She has accepted that she gets nothing now except the use of her cellphone. When school started, she got enough clothes to get by. Everywhere she goes, she goes on foot, except school, and I take her and pick her up. She gets no spending money and doesn't bother to ask for it anymore. No movies, no CD's, no mall (nearest one is 1 1/2 hours away). She does not have a job, which she claims is my fault because I wouldn't go get her applications. I told her that if she's mature and responsible enough to hold a job, she's mature and responsible enough to go ask for her own applications. We haven't let her get her drivers license and won't anytime soon. But, situations that allow her manipulate me in is because I won't to keep some sort of relationship with her. She comes home at 9:00 at night and will say she doesn't like what I fixed for supper. I'll offer to fix her something else just because I want to remain a mother in her eyes. This sort of thing drives our counselor nuts, but I feel its important. If I want to fix her something else, I will. If I don't, I don't. I just play it as it goes and do what I feel I need to.

DD -is- very smart and talented in many ways. I realize that she's ill and doesn't hate us the way she thinks she does. One of her main goals is to become emancipated and she has the paperwork in her bedroom. I'm sure she realizes she couldn't convince a judge to emancipate her but it seems to give her some sense of power in her own mind to think about it. At one time she used that against us but we would just shrug and tell her if thats what she needs to do. Of course, she no longer mentions it.

As you said, its up to me to help her while I still legally can. In 1 1/2 years she'll be 18 and we won't stand a chance. Right now I'm trying to give her the opportunity to help herself, otherwise I'll have to take her to court. It's the only way. We've been so damaged already by the actions that I've taken I can only hope that she'll do it for herself and it won't come down to that.

No advise, but I am so sorry this is happening to your family.

Moonie. My DH is bipolar. When he was a child back in the fifties his acting out was simply seen as a disciplinary problem. Boys were also expected to be more high energy back then.

Today I do think ADD, ADHD and Bipolar may be over-diagnosed in some cases. Everyone wants a pill for everything.

DH's brother was much more high-maintenance than DH and had learning problems. Because DH was very bright (most Bipolar people are) and did well in school it was easy to overlook the signs.

His brother on the other hand grew into an alcoholic and a heavy drug user. DH used drugs but pretty much stuck to hallucinogenics and pot was was not unusual for a young man in the sixties.

Brother became a scammer and a bum. Abused his wife and his kids. DH worked hard and outwardly didn't show a dark side.

MIL prayed and prayed for the brother but continued to give him money,let him live with her, turned a blind eye to his behaviors etc. He pretty much killed himself with drugs and alcohol in his forties.

I was married to DH and never saw it coming. He wasn't very social, he went through a lot of jobs, but he was a good provider, husband and a very involved father. Sometimes he would open up and describe his world as "gray". He was given to impulsive purchases, tended to blame others for things but hey "that's just being a guy" right?

Fast forward to after his mom and brother died. Depression hit hard. The doctor gave him anti-depressants. They seemed to work for a while. Then a Psychiatrist said he might be Bipolar. DH and I just looked at him and laughed " no way, where's the mania? He just wants to sleep all the time".

Well DH broke his foot. Very minor. They gave him vicodeine for pain. On the way to the doctor he became enraged because I didn't park the truck the way he wanted. He waved his crutch at me. By the time we got home he was in full Psychosis. He wanted to kill me, to break my arm, no divorce me. I had to call the police to come get him.

I'm telling this story so it may help others. What a he// of a way to find out. Even after being out on meds the manic behavior continued. He convinced his doctor to let him go back to work and promptly infected the surgical site where they had placed 3 small pins. It traveled up his leg. They ended up removing the top of his instep down to the bone. Several ounces of tissue were removed from his calf. The doctor and I collaborated to hospitalize him under the guise of his needing to be there for his antibiotic cath. It gave me time to regroup for the 6 weeks he was there.

I went for counseling. Got ready to leave him. When he got home he I told him I would stay while he got well but that was it. It took several months for his foot to heal. During that time he tentatively started talking. I started setting boundaries. His choice. My boundaries or he loses everything.

It's been several years and there is once again more laughter than sadness. In retrospect we both see the signs from way way back. We know now that his impulsive spending is the illness. We know that his forgetfulness is the illness. He knows I have to ask sometimes if he remembered his meds if I see something change. But he is responsible for taking them. He knows that I have to manage the money but I am grateful for his ability to earn it. We know that his "lying" is false memory. Again the illness. But not everything is the illness. I have learned to watch for the signs and recognize them when he is about to cycle up or down. Yes even with the meds there is cycling. But they are just little speed bump,not mountains. Sometime I have to just come out and ask...are you feeling out of balance today or are you just being a man? LOL

Just recently I mentioned to a Red Hat sister that DH is bipolar. She replied, "mine too". Very similar circumstances. Sometimes we have to be the "mean" wives. People who don't have to live with it don't understand why we wield so much "power". Some think we're witches with a capital B. My friend told me her DH once told her he picked her for her strength. Mine had once told me the same. That's what I'm trying to say to you. You must take the reins and set boundaries. Then as things level out you may pass more and more of the responsibility to your DD. She'll thank you one day.

Just last night DH came home and said he felt terrible because he'd forgotten his meds that morning. He took them and ate dinner. I had something I wanted him to help me with. I could see he was antsy so I told him to help me later. He insisted on doing it then. I tried to show him what I wanted. He impatiently said he already knew. Against my better judgment I let him have his way. Sure enough he messed it up. Now he feels bad and has apologized. But sometimes you have to pick your battles. ;-)

I was going to email this but DH and I decided to go public with his illness long ago. If our story helps someone it's worth it. I know there are others here who are Bipolar since they have posted about it before.

Here's another good website. Anne Sheffield's books are excellent. The message board has both those suffering with the illness as well as those coping with them posting.

Here is a link that might be useful: Depression Fallout

I see you were posting while I was. It seems you are on the right track. It's an exhausting dance. I know how hard it is at times. You simply cannot deal rationally with an irrational person.

I feel so so sad for you. It's difficult enough with a spouse. I can only imagine how painful it is to have your child be in such deep emotional pain and be unable to help.

Please remember to take care of yourself in all this.

mammie - thank you

wildchild - I appreciate the time you took to post yours and your DH's story. Truly touching. Right now my emotions are just a bit raw so having trouble seeing the screen through my tears. lol But it's ok. Soon I'll feel better. Just right now I'm still devastated over DD canceling her appt. Spent 3 weeks looking forward to the day. Now, looking forward to next week.

I have some questions maybe you can help me with but right now I need to take a break. Thank you.

Boy, this is getting old! I keep starting to post and then my computer reboots. Don't know what's up with that!

Well, I said that I had questions. Wanted to put together a list to ask the psychiatrist next week but it seems like they all come down to asking what would make me trust him? How do I know that DD will get the correct diagnosis? How do I know that he's not just some quack that will stick a label on her and push meds? So many disorders have similar symptoms but need to be treated by different meds. I worry that I'll do the wrong thing by her.

She needs a complete blood workup. I want to ask about fish oil and his thoughts on that. There are alot of questions floating around in my head but I can't seem to put them to into logical inquiry. There is so much information on the net I tend to get bogged down by it. I think I'll order a book or two but that won't do me any good before next Wednesday.

I've spent all day pondering over DD and it hasn't gotten me anywhere. Yes, I have swallowed in "it" a bit today. It was the wrong thing to do because really it just makes me feel more helpless. One thing I did decide was that even if she won't make that appt next week, I will. Don't know why he wouldn't see me and talk if she won't go.

If any of you can help with questions to ask, I would appreciate that.

wildchild - thanks for the link.

"She comes home at 9:00 at night and will say she doesn't like what I fixed for supper. I'll offer to fix her something else."

Comes home from where? She doesn't have a job. You offer to fix something else?!?!? Why isn't she cooking dinner? I hope you don't do her laundry too.

"She has accepted that she gets nothing now except the use of her cellphone."

Why does a teenager need a cell phone to use?

"When school started, she got enough clothes to get by."

Stop buying her stuff. Stop driving her around. Is there not buses that stop near the school?

"This sort of thing drives our counselor nuts, but I feel its important. If I want to fix her something else, I will."

Maybe YOU should start listening to the councelor. Why bother with counceling if YOU are going to be stubborn and do as you wish. A councelor cannot 'fix things for you' while you undermine everything they are trying to do.

"One thing I did decide was that even if she won't make that appt next week, I will. "

Great.

"If any of you can help with questions to ask, I would appreciate that."

How about 'What should I do regarding :fill in the blank:' Then do as the councellor suggests and see if it works.

Hi, I suffer from Major Chronic Depression. My biological mother is bipolar which means my illness can change in nature as I get older.
Wildchild is 'spot on' with her comments. I have self-medicated when it suited me with alcohol and sedatives. I have played things over time but I just can't do it anymore. I have had to fall hard to get to a point of picking myself up. I attempted suicide.
Please take the time for tough love now. You control the purse strings - make her earn her allowance by keeping her appointments. She wants to be treated like an adult? Well then ... she must respect her parents and house rules for as long as she lives in your house and you are paying all bills. This means going to her appointments and being respectful. If she doesn't like it she can move out, get a job, pay her own bills and figure things out from there...

Now I don't expect that to really happen. Get professional advice - see the doctor yourself is a good start if she won't go. Don't let her get away with her illness as any excuse for not taking her medicine.

It is a hard, life-long battle she faces and you are dealing with right now on her behalf. I have yet to experience 'mania' highs which is why I am not diagnosed as bipolar. I experience depressing lows which are debilitating.

Thank you Wildchild for the link. I've book marked it, going to send the link to DH too and I will be reading it.

God bless you, your daughter and family to continue with your struggle to get help. My prayers for strength to apply tough love. I agree with Wildchild - do it now - you will probably save her life.

God bless,
Peggy

No suggestions just HUGS. People who do not have a hard to handle child ( I did) may not understand many of the problems, and even those who do may not understand, because every situation is different. We cannot condemn someone else because they do not do what WE think they should. We cannot offer suggestions and then get upset when they do something different.
My only suggestion to help you out is to go to a bookstore and used bookstores will have this book and the library will also is get the book by Dr. Dobson--the strong will child. Yes he is a Christian Psychologist, but one who writes down to earth practical stuff. When I read it, I really thought he was an invisible person who snuck into my home and observed us. It might help you know you are NOT crazy but trying to do the best you can.
By the way, most Dr's have stopped giving out Ritalin because of way too many side effects and it really did not do any good. There are many more meds better, and cheaper. Yes my son was on that 30 years ago and it did not help at that time.
Good luck and hugs and prayers for guidance.

dilly dally - Your post sure did rub me wrong. I wasn't asking to be judged on how I am handling this situation with my daughter. Yes, I know some of the decisions I have made are not the right ones but I also feel like you did not read my posts. You said to stop buying her stuff. I said she got enough clothes to get by for school. Do you suggest she not get school clothes? By saying she "got enough", I meant that she has a certain style that she prefers therefore she wasn't allowed to get really what she needs because I was not willing to spend the money because of her behavior. Nor do I want her to feel uncomfortable or out of place and add to her self esteem issues. Is that the right decision on my part? I don't know. These are learning issues we are dealing with in counseling.

You said to stop driving her places. I wrote that she's on foot but that I drive her to and from school. Are you suggesting I not take her to school? She's in the Gateway to College program, which is at a college, not a high school where a bus will pick her up and bring her home. Yes, there is an intercounty bus that comes out this way. It could be an option for next semester when she has to go to another town. On the other hand, it may not work out. This bus goes through 4 counties and would take several extra hours of commute time. Am I being indulgent in thinking that at this time in her life, where she is mentally and emotionally that that time on a bus is too much? Maybe. Am I being indulgent by cooking for her at 9:00 at night because she doesn't like what I cooked for dinner? Most definitely! I like to indulge her from time to time. 9:00 is about the time we spend the most time talking.

Why does a teenager need a cellphone? I don't know, but my DD needs a cellphone because unlike high school, classes let out early and I often pick her up off schedule. With the difficulties she is enduring I like to be able to contact her at any time. There have been several occasions where I thanked the good Lord that she has a phone.

A councelor cannot 'fix things for you' while you undermine everything they are trying to do.
And where in the world did that come from?? Not only do I not expect a "councelor" to fix things, where do you get the idea that I undermine everything they are trying to do?

Boy, that just burns me up!

Peg, mariend - I apologize for not responding to your posts right now. Thank you.

(((((((((((((Moonie))))))))))))
We are here for you. I'm not an expert and I hope things can start fitting in place. I have never been a parent either, just someone who lives with mental illness, someone who has self medicated and someone who wished my illness was recognized at a much earlier age. You are doing the best you can and keep asking the questions when they pop into you head.
((((((((((((((Moonie))))))))))))))))
I hope I haven't said the wrong thing either - just want to let you know I care.

A friend of mine had to do the tough love with a minor child. He was being horribly dis-respectful, not doing homework, staying out very late,starting to hang out with a different crowd of kids who were into drugs, wouldn't help around house. She was not really a very demanding or overly strick mom but son was heading for real trouble, not just typical teen stuff, you know attitude, being moody. You of course have to provide clothes, food and shelter. My friends son came home one day to just that, bare minimum. Bed w/ sheets & blankets, door was taken off bedroom. 3 changes of clothes. Food. Mom packed up and stored everything else. (Of course not at home, he would have just gotten it out) No money for entertainment. No spending money at all. No computer. No video games. Did still let him keep clock radio to wake up in morning. Boy was he angry, he wasn't a violent kid at least. It took a few months for him to earn anything back, and it came back slowly, over 6 months. Stuck to her plan and did not give an inch, I was real proud of her. Please stick to your plan, she is manipulating you, demand she go to the Dr. or start taking away things and don't give in.

Peggy - (((hugs)))
You didn't say anything wrong, in fact, you said all the right things. I don't post alot here but do try to check in often and I'm aware of some of what you've been going through and you're decision to do something about it. I have nothing but the utmost respect for that! Thank you.

marie - I just looked up Dr. Dobson's book and it has some great reviews. Seems like the book also deals with little ones so I may search for something else. I've also been reviewing one of Anne Sheffield's books and several others. It would just be nice to have something on the nightstand to turn to, even with the wealth of info on the net.

izzie - that sounds like a plan that would have worked wonders with either one of my sons but I fear my DD would hit the road and we wouldn't see her again, so yes, I am, at this time, responding and dealing from a perspective of fear. I've had to call the sheriff on her on several different occasions but the one thing I don't want to do is file a missing persons report.

Each time that I have called the sheriff on her has been a reaction to measures I have taken against her. Once she was unhappy with her phone plan and in anger she busted my windshield. Another time she refused to come home when I told her to so I called for a deputy. A week after that she had a total meltdown because I wouldn't let her spend the night someplace I didn't want her to be. That night I actually feared for her mental sanity and called for an ambulance.

What that has boiled down to is she knows I'll only take so much and I'm not afraid to call in the law. She also knows that placing her in a group home is an option but one I am trying to work with her NOT to happen.

I've been going at this hard and heavy for 5 months now, so I'm willing to give it another month or so, hoping DD will go to this Dr. appt of her own free will. I already have discovered where being heavy handed with her will get us. As far as her therapy, I don't expect her to make it every week like she was doing while on probation, but I have confidence in her therapist to get her in next week. I like the way she deals with DD and DD likes her too. Right now I feel like she is just establishing her independence of being free of probation and feeling like the choice is hers. After all, she's the one that has been doing the research on bipolar disorder. She knows there's a problem. If it comes down to having to force it through juvenile court, then I will, and DD knows that, too.

wildchild - I also wanted to tell you that DD was not using before she went on probation. She's brutally honest in most cases and had told me that she quit pot several months before this downward spiral came about. She also had told me that she had gotten drunk twice, didn't like alcohol and preferred pot to it. Of course none of that means that I would let my guard down... just that I did believe she had stopped before she went on probation. She had no time to clean up before.

And now I'll apologize to dilly dally for getting upset. If you'll see wildchild's second post, she also called me on a few things. She just did it with tact, something that was lacking greatly in your post.

I wasn't going to post because I didn't think I had anything to add to this thread. But I want to reinforce your caution about trusting a psychiatrist with your daughter's future.

Several kids in our families plus a couple of my best friends' kids had serious problems in their teens. All the parents consulted psychiatrists. They were told either that their kids needed to be hospitalized (psych hospital), or medicated, or both. The kids are all grown now, none medicated as far as I know, and based on the good lives they're leading as adults I'd say as teenagers they were exceedingly moody, perhaps highly sensitive (they're all smart and creative), and normal.

Psychiatrists almost always treat with chemicals these days; very few use talk therapy or any other technique. Is it possible to get an evaluation of your daughter from another source, say a Ph.D. psychologist? In any case, there's nothing wrong with a second opinion.

Best of luck to you both.

Lots of good advice here.. I'm so sorry. Some of your stories ring familiar. I have spoken at length about this on your other post. Please find a naturopath dr, and pursue the physical aspect first, blood work and pursue the urine testing. Going to a dr that does not have an assocation with "mental health" might be easier to convince her to go. I urge you to start fish oil regardless of the psychiatrists input, one psychiatrist I went to did not even hear of that study. Start her with 2 day along with vitamin C and E. Just buy a good brand, mollecularlly distilled. My daughters urine testing showed that she was deficient in gluthione (very common in mood disorders) so she takes that every day with vitamin C. I am so convinced that often it's not a medication we need (or maybe not as much) but that there are imbalances and it takes a special dr to seek those out.

It was easier for me to acknowledge to my daughter that something was very wrong and we needed find if something was out of wack, as opposed to pushing a medication on her. As I stated in a prior post, my daughter does take a small amount of Lamictal a day but I was/am convinced that unless you find out what is out of balance, the meds aren't going to help as much.

Please consider starting the fish oil and making that appt.. Then come back to meds after all that...

You are in my thoughts, I know exactly what you are going thru..

Moonie57 quote: "A councelor cannot 'fix things for you' while you undermine everything they are trying to do.
And where in the world did that come from?? Not only do I not expect a "councelor" to fix things, where do you get the idea that I undermine everything they are trying to do? Boy, that just burns me up!"

Where do I get that from?!?! I got it right from your own post about how you handle things. You say: "I'll offer to fix her something else just because I want to remain a mother in her eyes. This sort of thing drives our counselor nuts, but I feel its important. If I want to fix her something else, I will. If I don't, I don't. I just play it as it goes and do what I feel I need to."

So you KNOW "this sort of thing" "drives your counselor nuts", but you continue to do as you wish, and the counselor 'is going nuts' because the problems can't be solved unless you are part of the program. It sounds like the counselor has advised you to stop doing this type of pampering but you don't follow the advice. So all the expectations are on the counselor to 'do the right job' and fix things. I can sort of see where the daughter gets the "Nobody is going to tell me what to do." attitude.

I've got to add something because I think there is a lack of understanding here. My first two dd's were fairly "easy" kids, and once we zeroed in on dd2's reaction to food coloring (huge anger,) all was basically well. Dd3 came along and the game changed. She was born Stubborn, with a capital S. As a parent you can knock your head against a wall for every battle and most likely lose, or you can work with what you've got. Before I had kids I was pretty sure I knew just how to raise them right, and bring them up to be obedient and responsible. Dd3 doesn't have any condition or disability, she just knows what she knows and will cut off her nose to spite her face. We set limits, but have learned not to be as rigid as I once believed I would always be. I'm simplifying; we love our dd3 to death and she is very responsible, but I am now not nearly so hasty to judge other parents.

You have to pick your battles. I certainly don't think mothering her by fixing her something special to eat is a deal breaker. If something so simple makes you feel good and helps her feel good it's a good thing.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. My sister is bipolar type 2, with rapid cycling, and I watched my mother try to deal with her. (Fortunately or unfortunately, my sister self-medicated with food, not drugs or alcohol, so she wasn't a physical danger to herself.)

I *so* understand that you're afraid of alienating your daughter, and are worried that she'll leave and you won't see her. The only thing I know for sure is that nothing good ever comes out of acting from fear.

I'll tell you my bias. I watched my mother do much the same with my sister as you're doing with your daughter. My mother's main concerns were keeping my sister relatively calm and not letting her break their relationship. My mother did things she *knew* were counter-productive, because she was afraid of losing my sister. She "helped" my sister in school - to the point of actually doing many of her assignments. She wrote absence excuse notes for fake illnesses. She provided my sister with spending money. (I, OTOH, started working at age 15.)

Later on, my mother gave my sister a place to live, rent-free. She paid for everything - clothes, food, utilities, car insurance, gas ... you name it. My sister got a good education and could get good jobs, but when she got them, she spent all her money on spending sprees. (In one week in 1986, she bought a $20,000 car, a $2,000 exercise machine, $1,500 of stereo equipment, $1,000 in CD's, and probably a whole lot more stuff I never knew about.) My mother eventually gave her money, because she didn't want to lose my sister. (By that time, it wasn't a physical loss she was afraid of, but my sister would go into her room and completely ignore my mother if she didn't like what my mom was doing.)

When her illness cycled, my sister would rage at my mother. (In type 2 bipolar, the manic cycle is more a matter of anger than what we think of as mania.) My sister would throw books and scream and make life miserable, but my mother took it, because she was afraid my sister would stop talking to her.

My sister lived with my mom until the day my mother died. One of the last things my mother said to me was, "Take care of your sister." Well, I loved my mother enormously, but *THAT* wasn't going to happen, at least not the way my mother was doing it.

Once my sister lost her safety net and had to be responsible for herself, she managed to do it. My sister is still ill, on multiple medications, and is hospitalized from time to time, but now she's much more responsible. She holds down a full-time job, something she hadn't done for more than a couple months at a time before my mom died. My sister will tell you that what my mother did for her, though it was done out of love (and fear), made her illness worse, not better. She'll also tell you that while she loved our mother, she never respected her.

I don't know if any of this strikes a chord, but there it is. I can't say what you should do, because I'm not in your situation. I just want to urge you to consider that you're not just hurting yourself by placating your daughter to the extent you've described, you're actually hurting her.

I keep thinking of that old adage about the definition of madness being doing the same thing over and over and expecting the results to change. I think you know you have to do something different, because you don't like the results you're getting.

As to why bipolar illness (and ADHD, and all the rest) are diagnosed so often today, who knows? Personally, I think they're real illnesses and have been around forever, but they're also over-diagnosed. You don't need to solve the societal problem, though, you just need to figure out what's happening with your daughter. If she *does* have bipolar illness, then it doesn't really matter if 10,000 other people have been misdiagnosed with bipolar. And if she doesn't have it, many of the things you need to do are still the same. (BTW, I agree with Alisande that you're right to look at the diagnosis with a critical eye, and ask for a second opinion.)

I'm sorry if anything I've written makes it sound like there's anything remotely simple about the problems you're facing. I wish you the best of luck.

Bipolar may be an overdiagnosed condition, I don't know.

But I know that it is a genuine medical condition, not just strong will, in the people who have it. I had a friend with it, and on her meds she was just fine. She took her meds religiously, and she was great.

Then she went through a problem with another medical condition, and the doctors adjusted her meds. My friend had to be institutionalized until they could get her meds adjusted correctly again. It was amazing to see - from sane to totally losing control back to sanity again.

I wish you all the best for your daughter and for yourself. I know it's very difficult to live through this pain and confusion.

It was nice of Joann to share her story. I think she provided very helpful information.

Got great news but I'll make this short and sweet. DD is due home soon and I don't want to get caught discussing her personal issues. But, she saw the psychiatrist today. She has been scheduled for some lab tests and a psychological evaluation, the latter not taking place, unfortunately until December. We'll also be discussing options that janemarie suggested. I need to email her soon.

Two things I learned about DD today. She has developed a germ phobia, probably stemming back to June when she got lice after refusing to come home for 5 days and staying with an adult female friend. This is what brought about my initial reasons for filing the disciplinary papers against her and filing a charge of contributing to the delinquency of a minor on said adult. whew! Talk about run-on sentencing! lol

During all this time she has not had any friends spend the night except once when a friend came here on a long weekend. The friend spent one night. DD asked me if the friend could use my bathroom. Odd. I didn't think much about it except to tell her no. Then, the next morning we woke up to find the friend asleep on the couch. Only today we learned DD does not like to share personal space because she "doesn't want germs". She also doesn't like her friends in her room because she thinks everyone steals from her. This is something that she had told me before and I didn't read much into it, just thinking she needs new friends if that's a real worry.

The second thing I learned is that she is going through periods where she has difficulty sleeping. I knew for awhile there that she was up and down alot but it was during some bad times between us and I thought that had stopped being a problem. I'm so exhausted at night and try to stay awake as long as DD does so when I finally get to sleep, I don't hear her getting up.

Just to shorten this, the Dr. thinks she very well could be bipolar but of course we have the testing and such. He said she has a high level of anxiety right now and prescribed her a low dosage of anti-anxiety meds. We go back in 2 weeks to see how that is working for her and she has an appt with her therapist next week. Last week I was worried that she would not wish to keep seeing her therapist now that she's off probation.

Oh, I wish I had not started this post since I need to go, but I'll follow up tomorrow.

Thanks to all you wonderful, caring people and especially to those of you that have shared your stories. Thank you!

Sorry, I don't think that made much sense. :(

Good news......it is a start and things can only go up.
Hugs for you and your DD.
Keep us updated when you have time.

Moonie...please email me thru here...I need to share a doctor's name with you that you may want to investigate...he's near Charlotte...he's worked wonders with a friend of mine's teenager...

I am so happy for you and your DD that she has found her voice and a good Psychiatrist to help her. The germaphobia sounds like she has some OCD issues. OCD,bipolar,anxiety,depression etc. all can be due to brain chemistry issues. Plus you can have more than one issue going on at once. Good luck to your DD and you. Congratulations to her for for taking that first step toward mental wellness.