That's a rough age. My DD had a group of friends when she was 7th or 8th grade...they kind of kicked her and another girl out of the clique for some unknown reason. DD found some different friends. A couple years into HS and several of the same girls who dumped her became her best friends again (and they still are).

No rhyme or reason to it.

Sending good thoughts for your DD.

When I was feeling distraught for the same reason, Dad used to say that often kids would have a terrible fight one afternoon, and next day would go back to being friends like nothing had happened.

When a group/clique get involved, it's often a longer term problem.

What a shame that some foks seem to feel that it makes their group better, more complete, to ride some members out on a rail, tarred and feathered, so to speak.

Sending good thoughts for your daughter.

It's a tough game to play.

ole joyful

When I was a kid I was mercilessly teased because I was tall and skinny. They'd taunt me by calling me Olive Oyl. I'd walk around the block to avoid some of these kids.
I guess it's pretty common for kids to be cruel to each other. Most times they'll be best friends again next week.
My best friend lived next door. We had a fight, our mothers got involved, we made up but our mothers were cool to each other for the next 30 years. Sad, huh?
I'd say let the kids work it out.

Awww yep, kids are mean no doubt about it.
I feel awful for your DD. No advice, all I can say is be a good person and it sounds like she already is.

My dd has had this problem too. There were quite a few of her friends who were in a group of friends since preschool. Then one of them turned a few of the others away from my dd and some other ones. The one is hateful to most of the kids, even her friends so there was real no great loss there. She steals stuff, pencils and other things from my dd and others in her class but the teachers all think she's a wonderful girl.

But my dd has made other friends, she's very popular and has a lot of them, boys and girls.

Marla,

My dd is 11 and in 6th grade. A few months ago she came home very upset about a girl she had met this year at her new school. She was spreading rumors and getting some other girls to say things untrue about her. DD and I had a long talk about it. I told her that she needs to be polite to this girl, but to never trust her. I told her never to tell this girl something that she didn't want everyone to know. After a few days of tears my dd has stood up to what we talked about. I gave her lots of love and support and she made it through.
Our school just implemented a new bullying policy and they sent out an e-mail questionaire. I would have reported it if the bullying policy would have been in place then.

I know girls of that age can be terribly mean. My daughter was very nasty to certtain other girls, she had a "clique" of friends who ate lunch together at a certain table. Another (unpopular) girl tried to join them and they rebuffed her. Apparently, the girl told the teacher, who then told the principal, and I was then contacted. It was terribly embarassing. I pleaded with my daughter to be nicer, think how she would feel if their positions were reversed. As a parent, my solution would be to see if you can get her placed in another classroom. Perhaps she'll get off to making better friendships with a different group. Best of luck to you, my heart breaks for you.

This area has a great program called Character Counts and it really does work. All the schools participate in it and you can see the pride the kids show when they get the free publicity on the TV. I would suggest talking to your principal and other about getting a program like that started.
As to your daughter's weight, do you have a YMCA in the area? Find out what programs are available for her age. This puts her in a different group and may be good for her. Yes it is true, when parents get involved sometimes it gets worst. Sit down with the teacher, principal and a counselor and be prepared for a discussion as to help all the kids. No kids present. Insist that there is two/three or more sides to every problem and the teacher must be prepared to handle situations or get training to do so. They do it here and there is no reason for others not to do so.
Remember Character Counts---It works.

I have a DD who's overweight, and was from about 9 yrs old on. I also have a DGD who's a big girl. She's 11. 5'2", and size 14 in the big girls size. She's always been bigger. I don't know if it's because she's been on meds for asthma since the age of 6 months. But she has the biggest heart, and the nicest personality. She isn't catty or hateful. I asked her last night, if there were any bullies in her school. She said just 1. Preston. He always picked on my DGS too, when he went to the same day care. It hasn't happened with her and any girls yet. I hope it doesn't.
Leslie

Hey, Marla . . . no great advice here, but having raised 3 girls, yes, I've had a heavy heart many times. Girls (especially a nasty 'uppercrust clique') can be the most cruel, dreaded group known to mankind. And it's usually obvious where they get it from, after observing their mothers. Switching schools won't help; they're everywhere . . . and they travel in packs.

Building your DD's self-confidence in her own interests/talents is vital, as well as the obvious unconditional love and support from family/extended family. I know I sounded like a broken record for the hundreds of times I said, "a bully will look for someone else to put down . . . because it's the best way they know to make themselves feel superior." Even though they seem like empty words, if you really delve into that theory with your DD, and do some creative role-playing, she will see that it's true. Unfortunately, you'll have to point out that, even though her remark was in self-defense, it was kind of the same type of bully-remark/putdown . . . and that she can't be allowed to lower herself to that level either.

Mean girls will still hurt her, of course, but eventually she will become strong enough and confident enough to see them as the pathetic human beings they really are. Make sure she doesn't get 'sucked into the wrong crowd' and you both will live through this :)

Sending good thoughts for your DD, Marla. Mean girls make those jr. high years seem to last forever. I think you're doing the right thing by holding her close and making her feel loved and cherished.

I was bullied a lot in middle school and had only one school friend. We were 4-eyed, shy, fashion-challenged bookworms and she remains my best friend to this day - more than 30 years later. My mom never got involved. Her advice was to ignore the jerks. That didn't make me feel any better. The best thing she did was to force me into after school programs, so I made friends at dance classes, church and the city rec and parks department. Lunch and gym were still miserable, but I could always look forward to the end of the day and spending time with my real friends.

By high school I had my own bookish, student government, yearbook, disco dancing 'clique' so it was easier to ignore the cool kids.

I think you should step in. The bullies mom stuck her nose in it first by making that horrible statment to your DD. Its time you call the other mom yourself or pay her a visit. Bullies mom needs to know exactly what happened. She apparently thinks your DD is the bully. I also believe that all this bullying gets out of hand because parents do not step in. If you do not make an effort to "clear the air" the bully will keep bullying your DD. She's feeling great right now. All this attention and she did not get in trouble for her part. No one even knows what she said. My best girlfriend was overweight. The kids were so mean to her. It never did "Work itself out." They say kids will be kids. I dont. I say kids will be brats if you let them!

I think it's best to keep encouraging the girls to work out their own issues. It is something in life that has to be learned. Our girls will learn what to say/not to say and who to trust/not to trust. It's disappointing that the other girl's mother stood in the way of letting the girls talk things out.

It will blow over as long as nothing more is made of it. It's hard to let things go, but retaliation is not the answer. I have told my kids, boys and girl, that when someone says something nasty to/about them "It says more about the other person than it does about you." It says the other person can be mean, not that their words are true. They say mean things b/c they feel bad and don't know what else to do with the feelings. It's wrong, but they make themselves feel stronger by making others feel weaker.

I would just focus on praising your DD's good behavior and practicing alternative responses for the next time sometimes talks nasty to her.

I hope your DD and her "friend" are able put this behind them and learn something from the episode. Hugs to your DD for such a rough day. I would not even try to change classes unless a child is routinely bullied and every channel has been used to stop it. Conflict is part of life and will come up somewhere else. You cannot avoid it, you have to learn to deal with it. Not accept it, but deal with it positively.

That's too bad, but I'm glad you were there to give a shoulder to cry on. That's so important.

If your daughter has nice friends, do all you can to support those friendships. Invite them over, etc. If not, I would try to get her involved in some youth group activity that she enjoys since school doesn't seem such a happy place for her.

I was always glad my children were in Scouts with a different group of kids because when things at school were not so good, at least they had Scouts with a nice bunch of kids.

If the problems continue, you must bring it to the school's attention.

I do think you need to teach a child in this situation about the teaser's motivation and how to handle the situation. I also think you should help her feel better about herself and resolve a potentially life long social problem for her by helping her to trim down. Don't keep junk food in the house. No soda pop. Get her into activities. Help her establish good eating habits and exercise habits. Serve meals with salads and vegetables which she is expected to eat. This is huge in helping to build a healthy and happy life for her. It will be a lot of work, but it will be worth it.

My daughter had a group of girls be mean to her in the 6th grade. It wasn't an ongoing thing, but the episode did bother her very much.

I have advice, but to me it would depend on if your daughter is occasionally picked on or constantly picked on.

My daughter was not constantly picked on. Her problem was at the beginning of middle school, when none of her particular friends were in her class and she was trying to make new friends. If your daughter isn't constantly being picked on, then I would have the same advice for her that I had for my daughter. There will always be girls who are on the outside looking in. If you will focus on other people besides yourself, you will find someone who needs a friend, someone who would love to have you as a friend. Just smile and be friendly to everyone. Some people will like you, some people will not. For the ones who don't like you, just let it roll on off your back.

If your daughter is constantly picked on, that's a whole 'nother can of worms. There I would definitely start with the teacher. I wouldn't go in and start blaming the other kids. I would just let the teacher(s) know that my daughter is having some social problems and ask them to be paying attention and please give me some feedback. Don't ask for honest feedback if you don't want it, but if you do really want honesty, tell the teacher(s) that. Some teachers are very, very perceptive about social issues and can tell you exactly what's wrong, if they are willing. Some of them will even tell you which girls they think might make good friends for your daughter. Asking teachers for feedback is not the same as not letting your kids handle their own problems.

Sometimes my daughter would tell me kids were just being mean. But because I was familiar with the kids involved, or the teacher had given me extra information, I could often ask my daughter a few thought-provoking questions. My daughter would often come to her own conclusion after we talked, either that they were just mean kids, or sometimes that she was doing something to trigger the behavior.

When my daughter had issues, I tried to walk a line between "kids are mean" and "that's not an acceptable way to act". It's true, some kids are just mean. In fact, most kids can have a bit of a callous streak. But there are many, many nice kids who don't say cruel things.

I am so sorry for your daughter's pain.

It's typical for bullies to harrass someone, then when that person reacts by talking back or losing their temper, blame the victim for picking on them.

I'm very sorry about what happened to your daughter. I had a similar experience in fifth grade.

It's best if she stays and works out the problems, rather than changing schools. Also if she can learn not to visibly react to bullying -- I know it's hard, but it's not satisfying to pick on somebody who acts like they don't care.

I'll put a link to a brief article by Dr. Dallas Jackson on the subject:

Here is a link that might be useful: Bullying by girls

Wow, tough one.
My normal take on these things is to definitely let the kids work it out, but it does seem so unfair that the other girl started it.
I might explain the situation to the teacher, but the Mom sounds immature and I just would not imagine you are going to achieve anything by speaking to her.
I would not go back to being 11-14 for all the tea in China. Girls can be absolutely awful at that age. And I'm sure it is quite painful to watch her go through it.

It may be helpful to teach her the art of disarming her tormentor, rather than responding with something equally hateful. (Although, part of me thinks that little girl deserved to cry after what she said to your daughter.)
"Well, Tammy, I know that it is so unlike you to say something so untrue and unkind. You must not be feeling well today. Did something happen, or did someone hurt YOUR feelings?" Of course the trick is to stay cool, which is hard to do when you are 12 and shocked.

Seeing your child hurting has got to be one of the most painful parts of life. I'm so sorry.

I like alot of the advice already stated -- along the lines of it's your role to help your kid deal with life, it's not you're role to deal 'for' her (maybe a lesson the other child's mom needs to learn ...). The middle-school years are so rough because kids are somewhere in between needing to stand on their own, and needing to be spoon-fed what to say, what to do, what to feel. You gave your daughter a shoulder to cry on, and encouragement to be herself. She can't live behind a magic shield. I worry more long-term about that other girl than about yours.

Good luck helping your daughter make the transition to a more independent, mature point of view. I hope she can use events like this to increase her empathy to other people.

I feel so badly for your little girl,ladyinred. It's a common thing but that doesn't make it hurt any less.

When I was in the lower elementary grades I had some problems with being left out. Still don't know why, but the tables turned when we got to high school. I was in all the clubs, was a cheerleader and always in the Queen's Court for the dances. Not a one of the girls who had made me cry had accomplished any of these things.

Do what you can for her self esteem and remind her every day how beautiful inside and out, talented and sweet she is.

Hugs to your little sweetie!
Mammie

Marla, your story makes my heart hurt. My DD is 45 years old, but I still remember those Jr Hi days and even into high school. Girls can be SO mean and hateful. I'm glad that your DD confided in you, that's a good thing IMHO.

Add the fact that they are so sensitive at that age, and we all know how volatile it can be!

DD came home today distraught as well. She has a mole/freckle on her eyebrow. One of the kids asked "what's that on your eye...a pimple?". She has always been sensitive about that mark above her eye so she got defensive and said "NO. It's a FRECKLE". For the rest of the day the kids in her class called her "pimple eye".

Sigh.

My DD is also 12 and in the 7th grade. Lots of drama going on in her class and in the school with girls. This is a christian school and only has about 500 students. DD has 2 friends that are "ring leaders" of this larger group, about 12 girls. My DD is part of this group. For the most part, they all get along but within the group there are arguments, they pick on each other and they hit. DD just came home the other day saying these 2 girls were blaming her for things she'd never done. Glad to say my DD is a great student and doesn't have a mean bone in her body. I know what she's capapble of and what she isn't capable of. Unfortunately, she can be a doormat and is an easy target. She has been hen-picked by these 2 girls for a while. The funny thing is that I know they like her and are generally good friends but there are times when... I don't know, all hell breaks loose! My DD stood in our kitchen last week, crying, saying she had no friends, couldn't get away from these 2 girls. She broke my heart when, during her crying, she stood there, grabbed her head and said "Mom, is something wrong with me?" I wanted to die myself. I am also limited to what I can do. Sometimes when parents or teachers get involved, things get worse...escalate. I feel for her and for our daughters and sons who struggle at this age. It's not easy and they have to learn for themselves how to extricate from poor friendships. Tough lesson, though.

I feel so badly for your daughter.

I think sometimes that mean girls grow up into mean women.

I can remember once posting on this board to a bored woman (now infamously banned) trying to convince her not to breed her dog just so she could have cute puppies to play with.

I was trying to explain to her the difference between backyard breeders and legitimate, committed breeders who take the time to understand the genetics of their breed, who are the gatekeepers of the bloodlines and who breed out genetic defects so they aren't passed down to future generations.

One of her most ardent supporters came on and suggested I was the one who should be bred out of the gene pool.

Like I said, sometimes mean girls grow up to be mean women, ya know? I think karma will probably get these girls some day.

I hope your little girl can get past the meanies. Being a female tweenager is the pits!

why are girls so mean?
Because they lack self esteem and if they make the other person look bad, then they think they look good. They are small minded self centered and at heart they are just as afraid and vulnerable as everyone else.

Definitely bring the teacher in on this. The taunter will only get worse if she thinks the powers that be are on her side.

Another suggestion, if you can afford it, enroll your child in Tae Kwan Doe. It will build your DD's self esteem as much as it will help her tone her body.

I just don't think bullying in any form should be allowed. Whenever I hear about bullying going on in school, I think of Columbine. Maybe that's a long shot but remember that those two boys who committed the horrendous acts were reportedly bullied in school for many years. I think that school counselors should be involved so that they are at least aware and that "zero tolerance" programs for bullying should be in place. JMO

I can't add much to the great advice you've been given on this forum. Help her to build up her self esteem. Tell her that the most beautiful girls don't always have high self esteem. Look at the young hollywood stars. Self esteem comes from accomplishments. I agree with enrolling her in martial arts. I am a red sash in Kungfu and love it. It builds confidence as well as gives you a killer body.
Don't push her to lose weight she should want that on her own. What kind of foods do you have in your house? You should only have natural, whole foods to serve her. Fruits, vegetables ,lean meat. Do not have snack food or junk food in your home. You must lead by example. Eat healthy and exercise yourself so she does the same.

Young girls are not the only mean and catty people. I'm 53 and many of my fellow flight attendants are catty, clicky and gossipy. (not all of them). Some people never "get it".

Donna

Thank you all for listening to me vent and giving great advice. She come yesterday saying that no one talked to her because the little girl had called them all over the weekend and told them her side of the story. I finally told her that she was going to have to stand up for who and what she is. If they arent talking to her find someone who will talk to you. Dont be mean, but dont be willing to fall into their traps either.
We talked this morning on the way to school about having a different attitude today. Hopefully things will be better today. I told her to try to find the good things going on today...not concentrating on anything bad.

Thanks again for all the great advice.
Marla

I know this is so hard on both of you, marla, but she has the best thing in the world going for her . . . you.

I'm so sad to hear about the hurt your daughter is going through, Marla. You are there for her and giving her great advice.
It's not always just girls. My youngest son was bullied in the 8th grade (middle school). He was one of the smallest in his grade and a little shy. A gang of "tough" guys made his life miserable. He didn't want to go to school. I had many conferences with the counselor and principal. It was as hard on me as on Chad. It seems like a miracle occurred between Middle school and High school. The bullies grew up and my son had a growing spurt that put him at the same size as the other guys. He also became more outgoing. He told me that High School was a whole new world for him. His high school years were fun, happy years for him and all the kids were good friends. I hope your daughter experiences the same thing.

I can't remember ever knowing a bully when I was growing up. It was a small school (the same school that my kids also attended) and everyone was friends. We all seemed to have happy lives.

I was bullied by girls in Junior High, and then it followed me to Senior High. I confided in my parents, who told me "ignore them". I did. I concentrated on my classes, made honor roll, became friends with all the other "nerds" and graduated 10th in a class of over 300. I got accepted to every college where I applied, and then graduated Cum Laude. Living well is the best revenge.

My poor Daughter would come home many times upset because someone was bullying her or another child. Then she recounted the events. I would explain "Why" someone feels that they have to be ugly. That they are insecure and she being the more secure, could rest assured that she is the "normal" one.

She was full of confidence. In the 5th grade, a boy started a rumor that she was pregnant. I laughed when she told me, as she didn't have a booby one. But, she started crying. I told her that it was so silly no one would believe it.

Next day, my Phone rang, before my Daughter got home from school. My Daughter punched the little boy in the stomach and gave him a swift right. Not something I encouraged. The little boys Mother wanted me to make my Daughter apologize. Then I told her why she knocked her son's lights out. She was horrified and the little boy was grounded. Nobody bother my sweet little girl after that.

Not recommended. She's like her Mama, you can only put up with so much bunk.

Gayle

We have Character Counts in my town. I think we may also have an anti-bullying policy. Since I don't have kids in school, I am not sure. People around town have yard signs that say "Character counts in Ames".
I hated junior high because some kids could be so mean. DS used to get thrown up against lockers by the bullies. Since DS wasn't very big, the gang guys took him under their wings and protected him. They didn't ask him to join their gang, they just felt protective of him. Same thing in high school.

I'm a firm believer that besides giving your child all the above mentioned tools, etc.
BUT! Parents MUST let the school authorities know what is going on within their building. My DH is a principal of a middle school - it's not a huge one and he knows most of the students by name -- They do have security cameras - but not everywhere... And he's not everywhere all the time... You don't need to going in there screaming and yelling about how could he let 'this' go on -- parents do this and it will be the first time he's heard of some difficulty in a hallway or with a particular student.. While the kids all think 'he sees all and knows all' like the Wizard of OZ... it's not true [although he does have amazing hearing !! Could hear exactly what someone whispers in the back of a classroom!! lol]

ladyinredfromokla-homey,

Are there girls living nearby that may be not in that school with whom she might develop a friendship?

Does she have some hobbies or other interests which can challenge her brain and provide other outlets for her energy which are separate from the school issues?

Sometimes physical activity, such as the Tae Kwun Do mentioned earlier, can help work off surplus negative energy. When Dad got mad, he'd often go split some wood to fit the kitchen stove ... and when Mom got out the dust mop for some energetic dusting ... it was a often good time to make one's self scarce for a while!

Does she have an above-average academic record? Though many in our society, especially boys, pooh-pooh such achievements, especially around that age level, the young generation are in global competition and many young people from other countries have better scores in academic tests than our kids do. Those of ours who do well will be thankful, in future years.

Often having other strings on our violin is helpful.

Would it help to let your daughter come and read the messages that have been posted here?

Does she have a close, warm relationship with her siblings (apart from occasional outbursts) and Dad? You didn't mention anything about her relationship with her Dad. Often, especially for a daughter, having a feeling of being respected by, close to and good buddies with Dad does great things for their self-esteem and confidence that they can handle the issues that develop in other areas of their lives.

With aunts, uncles and cousins, as well.

A feeling of solidarity with extended family often helps young ones feel that they have a solider foundation to their lives than if they feel that they are sort of alone. Assurance that they enjoy understanding, respect and affection from cousins or other friends can assure them that the nasty words that they hear from the down-putters are only a minor part of their whole life.

Good wishes to the both of you and to all in your family.

ole joyful

Marla, the very same thing happened to me in the 7th or 8th grade- all of a sudden, most of my friends turned against me for no reason. It was very hurtful and I hated it, but I survived it by just ignoring them and going about my business. I didn't beg them for explanations, I was too shy. I was the shyest kid you could ever imagine, so being mean to me was terrible and I remember not wanting to go to school but I had to. All of a sudden, it all blew over and they went back to normal. I remember asking one girl why they had done that and she had no good reason. Weird. A couple of years later we moved away, so I didn't have to spend the rest of my time in high school worrying about if it would happen again. I know I never trusted them again. Friends don't do that to each other.

I hope things straighten out for your DD. I am so sorry you're both hurting.

All 3 of my DD's went through so much with their "friends". Teen girls can be such verbal bullies. Youngest DD was friends with a girl one year older, a senior, who was on the speech team with her. The girls had a minor spat. While DD was on her job after school as elementary school hall monitor, the other girl's mother came in and threw a screaming fit, threatening her, etc. This woman was known to carry an unlicensed pistol in her purse. The principal of the elementary school called the cops and forbid her to come on the school grounds ever again. A real scary looney tune.

Wow...olejoyful....what an eye-opener. I am printing the responses off today and letting her read them all...plus I think I will let Dad read them too!

Things havent got much better but I am trying to tell her to ignore whats going on and it goes away. I know her heart is breaking inside..but shes a tough one on the outside.(most of the time)
Thanks for all your kind words and keep praying for her please.

Marla
DD's name is Cacy.