Oh no--I just posted on your original post and then came back here to this. I will miss reading your adventures so, so much. But I can't say I blame you for feeling the way you do. I would be terribly hurt to think I was expected to explain the legalities of the adoption.

So know I, for one, will sure miss reading about your family and wish people would just SOB rather than hurt feelings and deny some of us the pleasure of reading about your family. Bummer!

This forum is made up of many different kinds of people, some sensitive, some outspoken, and others somewhere in between. I rarely post but am an avid reader and I have to say, your posts spoke directly to my heart from the get go. I think you have to take some comments with a grain of salt and ask yourself, am I getting as much out of this forum as I am giving? If the answer is yes, then please stay, most people here are caring and kind. As for the others, they mean well and don't realize how they come acrosss on the internet.

Firemanswife, I know it must hurt a lot to read things like that, but I see you as a tough, strong, patient person. You have taken on a lot all at one time, and that could drain you of some of the will to stand.

Don't let others ruin your fun and joy of sharing.

I'll never forget the very first time I got brave enough to post a reply on the KT. I was very sincere and concerned about something happening in my life at the time. I was misunderstood, and people here jumped all over me. I'm not as strong as you (not that I know of anyway) and all I did is sit here and bawl my eyes out. I couldn't believe what was happening and was scared to death to ever post again. I did keep reading. I watched to try to know who was naughty and who was nice -- to other people. After a long time I tried again and only replied on "some" peoples threads. I was hurt by the first one, but I saw all the fun most have on here. I put on my slippers (certainly not boots!) and eventually joined the game. I have come to know and really enjoy a lot of people here.

One of the troubles with communication on the net is the lack of "tone" in the words, and it is very easy to missread that. I'm not making excuses. I had been wondering about a few things too, but you explained all those in todays post. I accept you as you present yourself and your family. Maybe you just need to not feel pressured to update daily. As much as we like to hear how things are going, I know I could never keep up with all you handle.

If you do choose to leave the KT, I guess I understand, but would like to encourage you to just take time to let the heat cool down. You have enjoyed this for years, so don't let a few others spoil it for you.
(((Firemanswife)))

FMW - I love reading your posts. I know that you can't possibly post all the legal stuff here. and truthfully, I don't want to hear all the legal stuff. Hearing about your family and how things are going is very interesting to me. Please don't let a few ruin it for us or you. Most of us enjoy hearing your updates. Lots of us do not have our kids at home anymore and it is such a joy to hear about your kids.

You can just add my name to Nicole ont's post. Reading this post really saddens me. I have soooooo enjoyed following your story, but I respect your right to do what you think is best. I will certainly miss reading about your new family. God bless you all.

Firemanswife, there are more people here that really love to read your posts and care very much about you and your family. The few dissenters should be ashamed of themselves. I know I'm ashamed of them. You do exactly what you feel is good for you, we all understand. As for the dissenters, I wish they'd leave the forum forever. We don't need them.

Yayagal, there's nothing wrong with dissenting! Especially when it's done politely. You're just being downright nasty for saying that anyone who dissents should leave!? Amazing...

What a boring world it would be if everyone agree 100% of the time! It amazes me how upset and pissed off some people get when others have a different opinion!

To wish some people would "leave forever" is quite childish! Everyone is entitled to an opinion!!

No my dear, I will not "leave forever" and I will not conform and agree with the masses just because it makes everything nicey nice. I did nothing wrong by stating that I didn't believe the story (still don't, btw), I didn't name call (though many called me names) and I wished her luck. I didn't ask her to prove anything and I didn't ask for pictures because quite frankly, I know how easy it is to go to a photo site and download pictures that aren't your own and pass them off that way... I've seen it done on another forum. It is my choice to have the opinion I do... just as it is everyone else's choice to go on blind faith and not read into the inconsistencies. You won't change my opinion and I won't change yours but to be told to leave, shut my trap and that I'm a nasty, mean girl is absurd. I will remain at the KT, where I have been since 1999, and I will continue to express my opinions. If you don't like it, I'm sorry. You'll have to learn to deal.

test

I'll miss you. But I wish the best for you, your husnand and children. I feel like I know you from all your posts. But I respect your privacy.

I cannot understand why someone would think this is a story. You have been a member for sometime and have never pulled anything like this, so why should they think this now? What a great feeling it must give those two individuals to see that you have buckled under because of their comments. They must always see the glass as half empty.

Good luck to you, your DH and your new family.

I hope you will reconsider your stance.

For the doubters - FW doesn't owe anyone an explanation!! Doubt her story if you wish, but she doesn't owe you or anyone on this board an explanation. If you choose to see the glass as half full and nitpick the details, that is your right. But it is also FW right to post what she feels is appropriate for an internet site.

I for one, was amazed that FW found time to post any details of the girls new lives, as I am sure she is super busy being a new Mom. May she continue to nurture and enrich their lives with her compassion, patience, understanding and most of all, love.

I've been amazed at how smoothly everthing has gone. Those little girls had reportedly had very dysfunctional lives up to now and I would've expected a longer adjustment period. Good for the new parents for having avoided that so (apparently) easily. All of the activities sounded so much like a wonderful never-ending party and I've been a bit concerned that, when things become "normal" (whatever that is) and the euphoria wears off for all and the every day stresses of life set in, that there would be a crash for all.

It's all sounded so perfect. I hope that it is and that it continues as such. I think that, because life is so rarely so fabulously and consistently adjusted, functional, and party time that it makes this sometimes sound unbelievable, especially given the girls' prior dysfunctional world.

I've no idea whether it's all true or not, but I hope so. It's a great story and new life for all involved.

It's a lovely STORY with a lot of heart. It obviously 'sells' to the audience here, but should FW plan to publish it she needs to research adoption law and change some basic parts of it to make it CREDIBLE. Believe me, there are pages of 'good material' in describing the legal hoops one must pass through to adopt! There's plenty of drama and suspense that shouldn't be left out, as any adoptive parent knows all too well.

It isn't just that FW has left out the legal parts, she's outlined a timeline that's extremely improbable under any adoption laws I know.

You don't get custody of children, even a relative's, without the state first checking on your background and doing a home study. (Nice nail-biting for prospective parents during that.) FW didn't describe any such procedure.

You can't legally change the name of a child until the child is legally yours -- when the adoption is decreed final by the court. FW said they'd done it already -- done it *legally*.

FW claimed to be afraid the birthmother could legally regain custody -- impossible without the court overturning her surrender.

FW doesn't sound incapable of understanding the laws that apply here, and surely she couldn't be disinterested in them!

When a mother signs a legal surrender of her child or children, in most states there is NO period of reconsideration and in some states there is a short period during which she can appeal in court and *possibly* regain custody. (Rare, partly because of the prejudice against any 'mother' who 'willingly' surrenders her own flesh and blood. She would usually have to prove the surrender was coerced.)

When a parent surrenders a child, the court appoints a Guardian ad Litum to speak in behalf of the child, make decisions about any medical needs, etc. This person is answerable to the court and continues to act as legal guardian until the child is legally adopted (not merely *placed*, but ADOPTED by court decree). I remember asking FW if they were not eligible for some reimbursement from the state for the doctor's visits and clothing. If the kids were in foster care or an orphanage, the state would pay for their care. (Let's not get off track here; I'm NOT advocating that alternative.)

Before a court places a child with potential adoptive parents, the parents need to be approved. There is at least one home study prior to placement. The state doesn't want to put children in harm's way, so of course it requires letters of reference and a home visit to the people petitioning for custody prior to adoption. (Doesn't matter if they live in a remote valley, someone has to inspect the home!) Family Services rarely finds against petitioning adoptive parents, but there is a chance people can be found unqualified.

In most states there is a six month waiting period between the time someone petitions to adopt and when the court decrees the adoption to be final. That is when the name of the child changes -- not earlier, as FW has stated.

It's a good story, but as an editor would tell her, "It needs some work to make it credible."

Sue, adoptive mother, spouse of an adoptee, "Crusader Rabbit" for improved adoption laws that protect the rights of the adopted person.

Oh for Pete's sake. FW doesn't or didn't have to tell us every last detail of her adoption process, the home study etc. etc. She may well have had the home study in preparation for an adoption a long time ago. Frankly that is none of our business. Funny but I knew who all would give FW a hassle long before any of this nonsense happened.

Adding my name to Nicole's & Marci's message.

After more than 15 years of being at the KT, this sort of arguement really makes me wonder why I bother staying. We all don't have to agree about everything, but malicious hurting of feelings is downright mean and nasty. To me, this includes having to know every single detail involving someone's life story and questioning someone's integrity publically.

Heather -- Telling us a tall tale is mean. We assume people are truthful...until they show us they are not.

FW's story has at least three big holes in it. When asked about them politely, she says she was 'mistaken' about when the adoption would be final; when pressed about other factual errors, she takes off.

Why would anyone's feeling be hurt by being asked to clarify something THEY brought up? (Yes, 'in public'. The statements questioned were made by FW on this public forum.)

Add my name to Chisue.

Before anyone here gets theirs panties in a wad I have been here for a loooong time. My computer took a dump and I had to re-register under a different name since I counldn't remember my password.

Hi Ciele - who did you used to be? :-)

Chisue - a person doesn't need to know all of the finer details of the adoption process to be truthful. That is why they have lawyers. FW will be exhausted having taken on such a load and may be tired and not thinking straight all of the time due to being sleep deprived. Have you even considered that? Not having all or giving you the details doesn't mean that FW was not truthful. If you question someone's integrity, you can do it via email in private, you don't have to post your concerns publically.

FW "takes off" as you call it because she shared her feelings of excitement and she was pounced upon. I don't blame her in the least for backing away.

I don't think anyone is particularly asking for "every last legal detail", Heather. She seemed to post a lot of minutiae on the one hand, contradict herself on the other hand, & further, post things that could be of questionable authenticity.

Several people have been "amazed" @ what all she/the girls accomplished in such a short period of time. Believers AND non-believers. While those things might ~seem~ impossible or perhaps "exaggerated" (the dentist visit, growing out of clothes in less than a month are good examples), they are not things that can be approved or disproved, BUT they do create a niggling doubt for people who have evaluative thinking skills.

The niggling doubts didn't go away, they increased with nearly every post. This can & did lead to looking more closely @ posted information that CAN be objectively debunked, as well as calling out contradictions. Thanks Chisue! I had a vague sense of the info you posted but certainly have no expertise in the legalities of adoption.

Some people are incredulous that there are other people who have decided that FMW's posts on her "new family" have @ a minimum a large element of creative license. Well, I'm just as incredulous that you "believers" have not a shred of doubt that FMW's every word & post is true. That doesn't make either side "mean" just that we come to a story from different perspectives. I like my fiction labeled as such.

Well, since I was the person who asked the first question, I'll respond. I wasn't asking for any greater detail than Firemanswife had already posted. She'd told us when the children came to live with them, where they live, and then that the adoption had become final. It made no sense to me, as the timeline was way too short. That's why I asked.

"If you question someone's integrity, you can do it via email in private, you don't have to post your concerns publically."

I would like to respectfully point out that when people have emailed members with concerns like that in private in the past, the OP has posted that someone did that, and the KT board lambasted the private emailer for being a "coward" and not having confidence enough in their opinion on the matter to say it on the public board. This has happened more than once.

Also, I don't think FW was saying she was leaving the KT, but that she would not be posting about the girls any more.

You're right Susan.... sort of, damned if you do, damned if you don't

Besides, I believe that someone else has already posted that their good intentioned email to FMW had bounced. So much for that idea. LOL

most of you will not likely want to know what I think

as far as FW posting ALL of her actual life details,she likely does good to even get internet time these days..so freakin what if she makes a typo or mistake...crap ppl..lighten up a bit

I don't post often but I do keep up with what's going on at the KT. Giving FW a hard time on what she is posting is just a shame. I have enjoyed reading about her new family. If she doesn't want to explain things she doesn't have to after all she doesn't owe anyone here an explaination. I thought the KT was a place where we could say how or what to anything we were doing or feeling without being judged.
Bless you FW for what your are doing for those little girls they need someone stable in their lives. You and your husband seem to be doing a great job. Keep it up!! Don't let anyone here stop you.

Since there seem to be a few people here who know a lot about adoption laws, I'm curious about FW's statement about Husband #2 having "custody" of all three girls, not only his own (forgot the name of that one) and also the other two, one of whom seemed to be no older than 9 months , I guess because he loved them. (If that's the case, where in the heck did the 3 live--with a single divorced guy, or was he again married & maybe his wife took care of the three kids--but not well apparently?)

Now if I understand "custody", it would involve taking steps to becoming a "legal guardian" for two out of the three. So how well (or logical) does this fit in with FW's explanation for the three girls' lives immediately prior to her & her husband stepping in?

BTW, I checked Nevada statute on adoption (the state where she said they lived), and a background check & home study can be dispensed with if requested by adopting parent or parents & approved by the Judge, but only for a relative being adopted within the second degree. I'm not sure whether or not a first cousin's children would qualify for this exception in Nevada.

Well, they say the internet should also be an learning tool. If nothing else, a lot of people here are learning the ins & outs of the adoption procedure.

Now I don't know what to believe. I know absolutely nothing about the legalities since I never was involved in adoptions, nor know no one who was. I bought the whole story hook line and sinker. Am I naive? I hope it's all true but she did make it seem like fairy land. She sounds like a wonderful caring mom ,but I know this is the internet and I can tell you all I was runner up in Miss America last year.

"I thought the KT was a place where we could say how or what to anything we were doing or feeling without being judged. ".......

Yes, so what I was "feeling" is that the story I was reading was not credible to ME, so how about you stop judging me for that.

kfca37 -- Thanks for researching the Nevada laws. I didn't know WHERE FW lived until today. OK, good. They *could* have petitioned to have the home study and background check waived. Why not just say so when we raised the questions?

(Boy, that's some law, huh? No safeguards? Gotta know a judge?)

What I dont understand is why you say you wonÂt post any more, Firemanswife. Ever since you began posting about taking over the care of these 3 girls, youÂve been inundated with congratulatory posts about what a great person you are and what a selfless and wonderful thing you and your husband are doing. Your "everythingÂs just peachy perfect" posts seem to be written specifically to elicit those exact responses over and over.

By taking on the huge responsibility of raising the girls effective a month ago, (a 4 ½ year old who turned 5 on Sunday, a 2 ½ year old, and a 9-month old, you impressed us all with your touching story. You are the most resilient and capable mother IÂve ever encountered but your continuing story became less and less credible as time went by. You recently posted that your (previously "underweight and tiny") girls had grown so much in the past 3-4 weeks that "The clothes we first bought them no longer fit and now Trace is wearing Tanna's clothes and Tayler is wearing Traces." YouÂre telling us that a 9 or 10 month-old infant in diapers and onesies is now wearing the clothes of her 2 ½ year old sister? Uh uh, IÂm not buying it.

You also got a huge empathetic response when you wrote about the Mommy & Me invitation. It seems that you were inadvertently invited to one of their meetings some time ago, before you had any children (and while you were undergoing infertility treatments?). Why you went to the meeting, IÂll never know, but apparently once the members found out you werenÂt a mom, you were ASKED TO LEAVE the meeting. Give us a break  life is not a Julia Roberts movie. IÂve been to a zillion different group meetings in my life and if someone showed up after being inadvertently invited, no matter what the group affiliation, the response would have been a sheepish "Sorry we accidentally invited you  our mistake  would you like to stick around today and get to know us?" I, too, was surprised to learn that you received a new invitation 4 days after the girls came to live with you, but you had dozens of posters here on Gardenweb standing in line to offer ripe and sassy come-backs to the group who was simply inviting you to join them now that you were a mom. How do you know the one person who asked you to leave is still with the group? Even if she is, the other 99% of the group had nothing to do with asking you to leave. Your posts seem to intentionally elicit responses that make you out to be the victim, in this case a victim of a group of hate-filled moms.

So why quit writing now? YouÂve had HUNDREDS of responses to your posts telling you what a wonderful person you are and what an incredible job youÂre doing. YouÂve had two or three people, an exceptionally tiny minority, express their skepticism. Whether or not your story is the truth, youÂve taken your toys and said youÂre going home. If your goal was to have fun at the expense of a bunch of gullible people, youÂve won, since youÂll always be the victim. If your story is the truth, and youÂre really as resilient and capable as youÂve shown us, your response should have been "Well, my story is the truth, so nerts to you if you donÂt like it" and youÂd keep up with the updates. My guess is that the fun is gone now that youÂve been called out. From now on, your posts would only be answered by the same 10-12 individuals each time, and that response isnÂt what youÂre after.

Some people have waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy too much time on their hands. LOL

I don't understand why some of you are so mean. If you don't believe a story SOB. Nobody is forcing you to read it. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter. What matters is how you are treating FW (and others). Would you say these hurtful thing if you saw her in person. I think not. Only cowards hide behind their computers and try to make others miserable. It's always the same people too. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone but in this case it was uncalled for. You aren't disagreeing with an opinion you are being bullies. Do mean hateful post really make you happy? If the answer is "yes" take a close look in the mirror. Is that the kind of person you really want to be. No one here has any obligation to furnish you with every detail of their life so stop insisting on it.

I'm aware that some of you have been taken in by some "stories" of misfortune and even sent money or items to those people. FW has NOT ask for anything and has in fact turned down offers to send gifts. So what is the problem. She is not trying to con anyone out of anything.

FW if you are reading this I hope you know that some of us loved hearing about your new family and will miss you if you leave. I can't say I blame you though. This board is not the nice place it used to be. There are plenty of boards out there that are mean places to post. This didn't used to be one of them. It was a place to share ideas, tips, stories. Those days are gone, I guess. I'm so sorry a few bad apples spoil it for everyone. I know plenty of people who no longer post here for the same reason. It's sad.

Best wishes to you and your new family.

Linda

Linda,

Please feel free to copy and paste the instances where we were "mean" and show them to me.

Now go back and look at all the things that were said to us for daring to question the validity of this story and decide again who is "mean."

FMW has been a regular here for years and has never given rise to suspicion on any of her postings that I can recall. I belong to several forums and "generally" there is a pattern, so not seeing that from FMW would not make one instantly question her. I do agree that there are some confusing things going on, but it's not my place to judge. I generally just scroll on by because I have enough drama in my life and I don't need anymore :)

Interesting! Some time ago I stopped reading FW's posts.... partly because of travel etc., but I did decide that "What mother of ONE new child or even ONE new grandchild to care for for a few weeks (been there, done that!) has the time to do all the things necessary, then make those posts." I do write a journal often, especially about things I want to remember....most often I just run out of time, or need to sleep...even when I was a young 37 year old full time "Nanny" grandmother. Today's post, with so many responses made me curious; otherwise I would have SOB. Good intuition? I have enjoyed this mornings postings, however because I love a good mystery...with clues and intrigue. I also think that we all need to learn to trust our instincts and maybe "back off" (sob, quietly) and just wait to discover what the "intrigue" was/is all about. Nanny

I am appalled about the very personal questions asked of a poster who has been here for years, and the outrageous demand that, in the absence of very detailed responses, branded a liar.

Maybe it's the heat.

Most of this thread read like a riot mob throwing knives.

I've hinted at my opinion earlier, but I'll say it out loud now. FW's story is a work of fiction. It is too absurdly sickenly sweet to possibly be true. It's not the real world. Think about it.

Just a few points to ponder:
1. If FW's story is "made up" wouldn't you expect it to be written in perfect detail, so as not to be questioned? What possible reason would anyone take the time and trouble to post all that just to hoodwink someone?

2. If it isn't true, how have you been hurt by it?

3. About the bounced email, where has FW's email address been posted? I haven't seen it.

4. If FW stops posting about this situation, I will feel like my favorite TV program has been canceled; and yes, there are true and false stories there. I make the choice as to which to believe.

FW, please reconsider and come back with updates. Most of us will be waiting for them.

Sue

I don't often post, but have read the forum for at least nine years. I know, personally, someone who has had circumstances very similar to FMW. In this case four children seemed to be miraculously and quickly acquired, name changes and all. And this to a couple who were not even actually married. I know laws vary state to state, but the adoptive mother admitted that there were many exceptions made in her case. The Social Agency involved felt it would be so beneficial for the four half siblings to end up together with a stable couple who wanted them, that they pushed for things to be accomplished quickly, the final adoption did take 6 months. The alternative for those 4 children was to be split up because there wasn't a foster home to take all four, or remain indefinitely in a shelter for children awaiting placement. Sometimes legal allowances are made when it is in the best interest of the children. Who are we to say, unless we were the officials involved in this.

Perhaps FMW has not chosen to share all of the most difficult things because she prefers to focus on the positive. That is not unusual in people, though, of course, others love to dwell on the less positive things.

I was amazed to see how well my neighbor, the new mother of four, took to caring for those children. And they were children with a lot of problems. So, having seen such a similar thing happen with a neighbor, I have been less skeptical about FMW's story. In fact, I've really enjoyed hearing from her.
\ How nice it would be if people who are cynical about her would have just refrained from reading her posts and let the large majority who had no such issues enjoy them. At the least they should provide us with some fast and firm evidence of fraud, if they want us to take them seriously. They have not done that.

I had the same problem with some people after a very difficult divorce several years ago. One of my cousins would not believe one of the specifics I told her about my divorce, saying she knew from her lawyer brother-in-law that it couldn't have been done that way. Well, the judge accepted the terms, so they evidently were legal. To this day she thinks I have made up stories about my divorce. I could actually prove her wrong by showing her the decree, but don't feel it is worth my time to have to prove it to her. Why would I want to mess with that kind of a person?

Just my two cents.

amen

Kiss and make up, c'mon!

Little known fact...Some flavors of Jell-O that never caught on include cola, chocolate, celery, apple, and coffee.

Hmmmmm...you would think apple would have caught on. Cola jello sounds disgusting.

Best wishes FMW. I'll miss your updates. I hope you and your family will be very happy and make wonderful memories.

Thanks Chemcurl for that info about Jello...lol...now what does SOB mean...TIA... Mary

I, too, think FMW has made too many mistakes to make her story credible. Don't get me wrong, I loved the story at first and eagerly anticipated the next update. But, as a critical thinker, the holes in her story got to be too much for me; many of those holes have been listed in this and other threads. I love a good yarn, but when it's posted as truth it's not fair to us, the readers.

Perhaps the story is true; in fact, I hope it is, as I love fairy tales. But if FMW doesn't return to clarify her points or at least continue with the story, well, then I have to believe that she posted a great hoax.

She is not trying to con anyone out of anything. I certainly hope not! But she did get an awful lot of offers of clothes and toys, in addition to all those good wishes.

I would love to know the real story here - truth, fiction, great hoax, whatever it is.

Firemanswife, I do hope you check back one more time and see the number of people who were (and still are) supportive and look forward to hearing about your new family. I have been a member for a long time and rarely posted until I read your story. But along with you, I have learned a valuable lesson. There is too much jr. high school drama here and I too am finished. If you would like to correspond via private email I'd love to hear from you. Best wishes to you and your new family!

I got a dollar that says she isn't corresponding with anyone. Am I wrong?

I have an idea. FW....I know you're reading this...so, since noone seems to be able to email you (?), why don't you skim thru these posts and start sending your daily updates to the interested readers who are waiting with bated breath? You really shouldn't disappoint them, no?