Thanks for warning me about the screaming that would have truly alarmed me. Yesterday when I went in the pen they came upto me. They are curious but if I reach out for them they shy away. the larger one seems to be more curious. That is also the one who likes the Ivy. I am thinking that I am going to put some Ivy while I put the collar on her. You are right about the Ivy making her forget about her fears. so that is going to be my ticket. The weather is really rainy right now so it is not a good time to take her out but as soon as it clears up she is going on a field trip with me. LOL. I figure I will take her out the pen and put her in the paddock (lack of a better term) with the fence being hot so she will get shocked if she tries to get out. Plus it will train her on the fence. Hopefully it will work on her this time. I went to a goat farm and when I drove up the goats came rushing to the fence. I was able to pick them up and they were so friendly. I think that is what threw me off with these goats. I was expecting a warm welcome. Just for clarification when you say "Carry it away from the barn then put it down and let it browse" does that mean to let the leash loose or should I be stepping on the leash? LOL such a silly question. i am really paranoid about them getting away again. Thanks to everyone for your help.

Maddielee, what a kick that you had a rosary like that. Now I'm feeling like the only nuked protestant. Hehe. We had a sun lamp and those weird little eye cap goggle things too! I had forgotten about that so thanks for the memories. Dunno why we had it because we lived in La Jolla, but we did spend a lot of time under that silly sun lamp. Nobody had any idea they weren't safe beyond the eye caps thing. Yes, there are still some of those machines out there. If you google 'fluoroscope' and hit 'images' you'll see some pics and some articles. Technicolor, we used to go to Knotts Berry Farm too back when it was free, though not nearly as often as you. You must have loved that. I don't remember that chapel, but I was very impressed as a little kid by the room with the slanted floor. Remember that? Great fun. And their jam was great. Sorry I missed the chapel -- what a hoot! Roselover, no kidding. Awww, you're just a baby! Yeah, the machines were gone way before you came on the scene I'm sure. Why not just google 60s and 70s toys? If you do it in 'images' you'll probably see just what interests you. I'm sure there is some fun web sites. It's a hoot to look at pictures from our childhoods, and see old TV shows and ads, isn't it? I'm sure the toys you played with weren't radioactive. They'd wised up when you got here, or gotten caught is more like it. Dedtired, yep those x-ray machines were fun, weren't they? They were like a big magnet for kids. Denali, oh that's not fair that you didn't get a turn! Just as well though, now that we know. Yeah that was radium paint. They were cool how the numbers all glowed in the dark. Mary do you think moving the clock across the room helped? I doubt it but that's funny. Your dad sounds like a fun guy. Lukkirish, maybe my memory is faulty but it seems to me we all knew it was radium paint. We just didn't know it was dangerous. I agree. Those clocks were much cooler than digital clocks. I'm sure your dog's ball isn't radioactive but it sounds like a great toy. One of my dogs would go nuts for that. Where did you get it? Kristine, you're right about the tritium, I think. Wiki says of tritium, "While these devices contain a radioactive substance, it is currently believed that self-powered lighting does not pose a significant health concern." I'm sure the toys were radioactive (and still are). They came out at the same time as the radium clock and watch dials. It was all the same paint. I remember that. Interesting about your grandmother's dishes. The thing with the Radiation Girls happened in the '30s. But even today there are food-safe glazes and non-food-safe glazes (I think they have lead in them).

Ok- This comes from a teacher point of view as well as someone who has a degree in child development. You can take it for what it is worth: In Classrooms (like daycares and preschools and K room) kids are required to pick up at least two sometimes three times a day. The reasoning being that a. other kids play with the toys and the deserve to start fresh too b. kids can't think in clutter very well and neither can teachers. c. safety in that you can't walk without tripping etc. also is part of the reasoning here. I carry this into my house to some degree. I have three kids 5, 3, and 1+. Two boys and a girl. I let them play with what they want and they can play with how they want provided they are not taking away from each other-- playing nice. And now my home and my theory in practice--- We pick up daily - once before nap I expect everything to be picked up and once in the evening before their father gets home. If everything is picked up and if their father is not home yet, they can watch a video. This works great for my son who is a tvholic. The exceptions to picking up completely are this: 1. if they have some creation before nap- a tent house, a train world, polly pocket home whatever they can leave it out until dinner time, as long as it's out of the way. Not on their bed at nap time for example. At dinner time though, things are picked up. 2. If it is on the train table. We bought a big train table with the buckets at the end of the table. I rotate toys including what is in the train table buckets. - blocks, legos, little people, etc at any given time are in the train table buckets. IF they set up this elaborate train set or a great lego building, as long as it is on the train table, they can leave it there. The train table toys are usually building toys that typically get moved and torn down and rebuilt daily so those change pretty quickly and get put up to make room for other buildings. As for sorting out toys into the right bins daily- I don't do that. We have a big toy box in the front room where they play. Some toys are behind the couch in the plastic shoe boxes. Polly Pockets, etc - those things with small pieces. Those are the toys that they typially pull out from behind the couch, open the box and play with them in their room or on their bed- the little pieces typically get put back into the right box. But I don't worry about it. When we pick up, whatever is on the floor get thrown into the toy box. The kids help me pick up and if they want I do let them put the small pieces in the right bin, but if I'm helping I grab and toss. And because I rotate toys- once a week or every two weeks I dump everything out and the kids and put toys up, resort as needed, exchange toys. This is when the polly pocket shoe that got thrown in the toy box gets put back with it's mate in the right bin. Etc. I have also gotten rid of many toys. As I write this however I can think of train things I need to get rid of because my kids have never really played with it. Sigh. I kept it thinking one of the other kids would like it but so far- no luck. It really is that simple and really that complicated. I just make the time to rotate toys. Everything centers around that. When we rotate toys everything gets sorted out perfectly. Because we rotate toys not everything is out at once and that makes it easier to a. clean house b. pick up every day c. control how many toys are out with small pieces d. organize and make sure everything is in the right bin. As for your daughter dragging things out of the house - we take things out to the car but they stay in the car. When we go in the store- the toys stay in the car. As for all of her flat type creations- I also bought an art portfolio. IT's like a big envelope. I let my son keep all of his papers in there. He keeps every paper he touches. They all go in there. It sits at the end of his bed. When it is stuffed I go through it- sometimes alone, sometimes with him. It works for us. Big papers and small papers go in here. But only paper. We have also done some things like I sat down and whipped up some bags for toys. My two older kids love to fill things with things. A small bin may have five cars, three dinosaurs, four crayons and sixteen pieces of paper. They love to just stuff things in things. I made some bags. I whipped up bags and this makes it easy to carry things around. If my boy's snowbear needs crayons for the day (becaue my boy is like your daughter with an animal whose needs change) - then snowbear puts the crayons in the snowbear bag and off we go. I have probably 10 bags designated for things- blocks, small dolls, etc. I have maybe another 10 bags with drawstrings for anything. They just get thrown in their toybox empty at the start of two weeks and stay filled until it's time to rotate toys. So- based on my usual long winded response here are my thoughts for you: 1. Can you designate a place as a compromise- train table creations are ok, otherwise they go down? Can you set a time that they have to pick up? Daily? I do it when their dad comes home so they know exactly what their schedule is. Can you do it on a set day? Every other day everything is totally picked up? I lean to a daily pick up at a set time so it is routine. I agree that it is the process at this age - the process of making the creation is important not the creation itself. 3. Can you provide your daughter some place for her creations? This ties into question one but also for her small books for blueberry? for the small things he has to have? A bag? An oatmeal box with a string tied to it? an art portfolio? 4. Do you have to have all of their toys out all of the time? And after having said all of that- I think what you are really looking for is not the organizing help but more of the parenting help. Do you allow your children to make creations and leave them? And How do you tackle this as a mother? I'm not sure I helped at all. What I would say to you as a teacher if you came to me is Go for it- encourage the creativity. When you see them no longer playing with a toy or creation show them how to take it down and put the components up. Or if they can no longer play wiht a type of toy because all the pieces are spread apart and put in wrong places, help them sort them out. You are the mother and you know best. Ginger

" ... face plants in the muck ..." ... are those "face plants" something like water lilies, Rosie? Or a wild rose-bud? (wild rose being the official plant of Alberta, for you other folks). Referring to hauling newborn calves. When I was a kid we did most of the hauling on our rather large (in those days) farm with a trailer behind the car. The farm was a mile and a quarter long and when one of the heifers had had her first calf in a pasture field just this side of the woods at the back Dad took the car and trailer back there to load the calf into the trailer to bring to the barn. As he began to drive slowly away from the calving place, the mother followed for a short distance ... then returned to the place where the calf had been born. I don't remember whether Dad made a circle a couple of times to try to get her to follow, but she didn't. I was nine, and Dad asked whether I thought that I could drive the car to the barn while he pushed the calf ... and I, of course, said that I could. There were a couple of gates to open and close, which I accomplished without difficulty, and we had a gravel pit about half way to the barn, which gave me no trouble as I drove slowly and carefully down into it .. but as I was moving up the slope to go out ... the car stalled, and I had no success in trying start it again, on the upslope ... so had to wait until Dad came along, pushing the calf, with the heifer following, to get me out of my pickle. My introduction to driving ... and as a farm kid, in World War II, I got my driving licence at age 15. Still got it, 70 years later ... and soon need to have my driving consultation and tests for rules of the road, driving signs, and a vision test ... with a few participants being asked to take a driving test, as well ... my fourth, as we have to have one at age 80 and every two years thereafter. Thirty-five bucks a shot, good for two years ... but it may go up, as the province is darn near broke, and having kept the annual fee for auto licence at the same level for a number of years, they increased it from $74.00 to $98.00 this year. Once I asked the consultant/tester whether we got a gold star if we got them all right ... and she said that she'd been thinking of getting a smiley face with a car on it to give out. Dad wondered whether, should one of the tires blow, he could get permission from the local ration board to get a replacement for the car ... so he talked to old Uncle Charlie, housebound for years, whose farm Dad sharecropped and who hadn't driven for some years and whom Dad shaved about once a week, whether he could use his '26 Hudson, with a square back, to make a truck, and Uncle said to go ahead. So Dad cut the square back off and welded it back to the frame just behind the front seats, leaving a space of bare frame behind it, over the back wheels, then built a square, flat wooden platform on it ... one had to tie the loads down or drive *very* carefully ... or suffer a loss of load. The tires, having sat unused for years, weren't useful ... so Dad got four tires for that home-made truck! A toggle switch on the dash that one pulled to the left to turn on the ignition, and one beside it that one pushed to the right to turn on the lights - and one had to push a lever on the floor to operate the starter. What memories a simple little story brings back to our minds! ole joyfuelled