You can see daylight? That just seems wrong. My inward opening casements are old. Actually, antique. OK, well, maybe even ancient, & they are being replaced with sliders, because they're just flat out leaky & the wood is rotting & I would never do that type of window again. But even as old & bad as they are, there aren't any gaps like you're describing. Even where the wood is warped, you can't see daylight, so I'm not really understanding what's going on.

I would describe how my windows seal when they're closed (or, more appropriately, are supposed to seal) but I'm sure it's a very different design than anything newer than these, which are probably between 50-90 years old.

Moonkat, I'm thinking you're right. And I'm not so sure the designs are all that different than yours' since these were custom made to fit our 1930's home. Tomorrow when we have light out there, I'm going to take a picture and post it...when I first saw it, I thought that perhaps they were allowing some room for warping since all the wood in our house is always changing size from winter to summer here in SoCal but this gap is bigger I think even than that. We have heard about the old windows of this style having leaking problems and we're told that the new frames are designed so that water that hits will slide down to the ground and not sit on the wood, plus some metal flanges have been designed to go into the part of the window that is in the wall (sorry name is escaping me) which is also supposed to help...if it doesn't I suppose we'll have to resort to sliders as well. But I certainly didn't think that brand new windows would be quite this drafty!

I took pictures this morning of my windows and in the daylight, it really strikes me that the GC didn't even seem to have focused on this as an issue and only now after my request, he's "looking around" for a solution. DH has suggested that the solution is to have the windows re-made (they were custom made). Is this a mis-measurement issue or is this typical of a window before some kind of stripping goes in? Even the non-moving window has a crack.

Here are the pics: This first one is the fixed, non-moving window:

These are the laundry room windows:

This is the left window over the sink (the right one is the same):

These are the other windows in the kitchen:

I am really hoping that yesdear (does anyone know how to contact them off GW?) can post a close-up of their inward-opening windows as I know they used a window contractor here in the area that my GC has used so it could be helpful in case he tried to do it on the cheap...but pics from anyone else (closed and open to see the stripping, if any) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

bump hoping yesdear might see this and send me a picture of how their windows are sealed...

How do they latch? Depending on that, it seems like the easiest way to seal them would be to put a piece of trim all the way around (attached to the moving part of the window) with some kind of thin foam backing on it to cover the crack.

That anyone would claim this situation is normal is absurd.

Hi gailrolfe--

Just saw this. Our pull casement windows have soft rubberized weatherstripping mounted on the fixed portion, along all of the top, sides and bottom. The bottom weatherstripping is mounted onto a little furring strip of wood. There is a wood molding on the mobile portion that is shaped to cause any water to drip out onto the sill and not underneath the window.

I seem to recall that the molding came with the windows and the GC installed the weatherstripping. I guarantee your building inspector will not be pleased if those gaps persist.

I will try to post a photo (it is such a hassle on GW), in the meantime, HTH.

YD

I'm so glad you saw this yesdear...I know it's a terrible time of year to be asking but if you do get a chance to post a picture, it would be ever so helpful. As both you and raenjapan have suggested, the GC is now talking about adding some kind of strip but I get the impression that this is the first of these kinds of windows he's installed (based on your experience I suggested he use JT Windows and thought he had but he used Alco instead) and I think it would be reassuring to me and helpful to him to see an example. He's coming tomorrow morning (Tuesday) to talk about it and to show me something, I think, which he probably wants my approval on as he wants to start insulating tomorrow afternoon and drywalling on Wed and I want to make sure the windows are going to be ok before he does all that! Anyway, the kind of thing you describe is what it looks like it needs and he assures me that with the caulking and "flange" it will be just fine...to be continued! Thanks again, yesdear and raenjapan.

I just saw the proposal. It involves weatherstripping all around plus a small strip of wood that sits on the bottom of the window on the fixed part which is attached to the weatherstripping..that part sound very similar to your's, yesdear. He's adding a metal piece to the bottom of the moving part of the window from the outside that is slanted such that it will clear but just slightly overlap the wood strip so that water that hits the window will flow over the wood and down to prevent the wood from rotting due to excess moisture. I understand the importance of this concept and he has said he will paint it to match the window but I'm still a little concerned about how it will look from the inside when the window is open...he swears it will be fine and DH agrees but I have my doubts. Guess there's nothing to do but wait and see...but of course once I've done that, it's a little hard to say "take em out"...oh well. I guess if this is the worst that I have to compromise on, I'll survive. Would still love to see a pic of yesdear's though if the chance comes up. Or hear if anyone else has seen something like this...

Sorry Gail, I don't have a photo. But I have one Kolbe and Kolbe inward swing casement window, and I have the same problem you do. I just noticed yesterday (I'm rarely in that room) that there's a huge draft coming in between the sash and the frame. They were installed about 6 years ago, are expensive windows, and have no weather stripping. I'll be happy to find a solution.

I hope you get it straightened out by tomorrow. Just make sure your carpenter understands that the bottom line is you want them to be draft-free. Sometimes you run into a situation where they "fix" something and it doesn't work, and still want to be paid for it.

egganddart, once the GC puts his solution together on a window, I'll take a picture...and also let you know if I like it. I do think I must have misunderstood him initially when he said he couldn't put weatherstripping on the bottom because that's what he's planning to do and I think that alone will solve a good deal of the problem. So we'll see....

Gail
I feel for you - I keep scrolling the pics & am in disbelief at the windows and/or install.

No expert here, by any stretch

I see all the framing around the windows is new - first thing I would do is to get a LONG level out & see that the framining is level & square -based on the shimming I see (esp last pic) I would venture that the framing is not level and out of square - I even see shimming on the sides - Those custom windows should fit snug as a bug in a rug - IF : the openings were properly measured, the windows were made in accordance to those measurements, framing is done properly.

I think there are several failures here - My other concern is they may even be further compromised by expansion/contraction which normally happens w/wood but may be more so in your case if the wood was green (most construction wood today is green) and if it's pine.
Were measurements taken when the openings were newly framed? (they should have been).

Please ck the windows from the exterior as well & post pics - the sils should have pitch so that if any water does land it would not sit on there.

I just don't see that weather stripping etc is the solution, but again I'm not an expert - they really should have come with "built in" weather stripping. I just opened my Marvin window and confirmed the stripping around the entire window is "built in" a channel in which the stripping is basically permanently adhered. I just think in your case an "after market" fix will be temporary.

Who was the window manufacturer? what were their specs? what type of glass is in? is it double paned how is it sealed? Did you find them or the GC? How long have they been making windows? what type of guarantee? Most window co's are very specific w/their guarantee - properly fitted, installed & painted - if they find there was failure do to any of those the guarantee/warranty is null/void.

Sorry to be such a naysayer here, but I would not accept what I see in my home, & it really fires me up to see this type of thing happening to well meaning home owners.

If the GC is the one who contracted with the window co - he/she has got to remedy the situation - I hope you still owe them $ & withold any payments until there is a satsifactory remedy.

I would take your post/pics to both the remodeling forum & window forum on this site - You may get more expert opinion there.

Good luck

jejvtr, everything you said is our greatest fear! Yesterday they reframed them all, added some metal flanging under them to help protect the wood from water and yes they do have downward slanted sills in order to let water run off. We also spoke to one designer who said the type of arrangement out GC is proposing is something she has seen on older inward opening windows but in copper as opposed to painted metal. The windows do look better seated now and as soon as they put the "fix" on, I'll post new pics again. The window company has been around a long time and has a good reputation. It is Alco in Arcadia, CA. My town does not allow double-paned windows in remodels of older houses (I know, I know, ridiculous) so it is all single paned. My GC sourced these windows from Alco even after I had suggested JT based on yesdear's recommendation...although I take some comfort from the fact that my GC has a sterling reputation for quality and for making things right. I just hope it is true in this case as well. You raised a good question about the guarantee...I'm going to look into that. And we'll double-check with the level as well. Not what I wanted to hear today but thanks for helping keep my feet on the ground...must not get too complacent about "he'll fix it"...

Gailrolfe,
I don't know much about the type of window you had installed. I do have to say from a novice perspective, it does not look like a good window. I researched windows, a different style from what you have, but I found them fairly consistent and the weather striping was always built in. I included a link to a picture from a manufacturer that I like. It shows an outline of the window which does not look like the picture you posted. I know you are stuck with single pane windows which will be noisy enough (I have a few in my home now) but the gaps look like they would make the windows noisier later on. Not to suggest that this is a window you should by but maybe something to show you GC as a discussion point.

Good luck and I hope you find a resolution!

Here is a link that might be useful: Duratherm Inswing Casement

In Europe, almost all windows are in-swing casements, and I can assure you, they are all weather-stripped.

The link below will take you to the website of one American maker of this style window. Click on the thumbnail images on the right side of the page for an up close look at what the weather stripping looks like.

Here is a link that might be useful: Brothers Windows - European Casements

homepro and wa8b, thanks so much for sending me those links...thought it's a bit depressing. It looks like on those pics the stop is flush with the outside moving pane...am I clear? My GC has been expressing concern (thus the flange)about water getting behind the stop but that's because he would have to put it in front of the pane rather than flush with it. I'm beginning to wonder if this window company has ever made these windows before! I'm definitely going to share the links with my GC to get the conversation back to the actual window instead of how to "fix them"...will provide updates as things progress...or not...

Thanks again.

Gail

Interested in what the outcome is for you - Keep meticulous records of your findings, transactions,communication, measurements etc...

I understand the need for single pane - I have an older home & almost all the original single paned windows. In the kitchen we gutted, and had to replace windows - I opted for Marvin windows they are single paned with an energy panel
On the rest of the windows in our home we installed Harvey storm windows which are probably the best in the industry (triple trac)
We did look into wood storms through Adams Architecture see link below

Not that these options are a solution to your problem but give you food for thought

Please keep the pressure on this GC, if you don't have the original order for the windows ask for that either fr. GC or window co or better yet, a copy from both will help to see that the order was done right. I still think the measurements were off, in which case that is the GC's issue & a re-order will need to be done, although if it does come to that you may want to consider an alternate company that does the weather stripping properly. That should not be an after market option.

http://www.adamsarch.com/taf/query.html
http://www.adamsarch.com/taf/query.html

Good luck keep us posted

Here is a link that might be useful: marvin

Thanks, jejvtr. I'll post the final version and see what happens...but keeping records is a good idea and getting a copy of the order also.