For those who find it tricky to locate old posts of yours which may have responses, once a week or more, come here and in the search window near the bottom of this page, type in your username. Any posts you replied to or started will should, come up. I've noticed sometimes (maybe always, I don't know) if your post is on page 1 or 2, it will not show up in Search.

If you want to be even more specific, add the month and year to the search in the same format the forum uses (3 letter month, 2 digit year)

Example: in the search box I would type jodi_in_so_calif nov 10. Up come about 20 posts that I either posted to in November 2010 or one I posted in that someone else posted in during November.

Not a perfect solution but will get you much closer to the posts that have meaning to you.

Jodi-

Well said. Hear hear!

To anyone wondering why they aren't receiving emails of follow-up posts to their threads even though they checked the box requesting it, please check your profile. You must have emails turned on for it to work.

This is documented in the "Read Me" thread. Scroll down to the post w/the subject "Getting Emails Sent To You...3-step Process".

Oh, and what is also documented in the "Read Me" thread is an explanation of why recently started threads sometimes don't show up in a Forum search until the next day. (Look for the section labeled "How are the home page and the Forum organized?" in the very first post.)

A "Google" or similar search is also talked about in that first post.

Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!

I totally agree with the OP. Furthermore, it's not so much that I want a "thank you", but that I am in suspense as to what the OP ended up choosing! Sometimes the OP seems agonized over a decision, we all chime in, and then, nothing. What happened? I want to know! Also, I agree with Oldhouse1, that sometimes posters are just looking for validation of their choices. They can get "testy" if we end up not validating their choices, and can even be disrespectful to the people who generously are giving them advice that their choices aren't wise. After their grumpy response, we typically don't hear from them again.

I'm new to this forum, but have been on GW for years and am very active on a number of other boards so I certainly try to remember proper Forum etiquette and say thank you and provide followup information when I can.

I agree with macybaby in that I search a lot of posts and the information I have gotten from the older posts is realy invaluable. I'd like to thank everyone who has taken the time to respond to the posts.

Like Alwaysfixin said, it's nice to see what the OP ended up picking/deciding/doing so I'll certainly make an effort to update my posts as things get decided :)

~Andrea

There was a post on this subject several months ago. Someone called them drive-by posters, which I thought was very funny.

And I, too, agree that even if a responder is not acknowledged, they may add information that others find useful. I always wonder how many lurkers are out there gathering info...

While I certainly agree with the OP, as a newbie I would like to say that I lurked here for awhile before I decided that I was desperate for advice from people who have been there done that or at least have an opinion. Now, I know my kitchen is not the biggest nor does it have the best potential, but it's still worth a shot.

I posted 1 question with a clear heading, description and even photos because I am seriously confused about my kitchen and only 1 person replied.

In fact that one person was the only one to go out of her/his way to manipulate my photo to try to show me how it would look in the end. There were several photos included in the reply as well.

To long timers, Just because we are new doesn't mean all of us will not be worth the time. Take the time to acknowledge a newbie, when it is appropriate. That means a lot too.

BTW- there are some beautiful kitchens and some wonderful advice. I can tell many of you really enjoy this forum!

P.S. I hope I am still welcome, even after my little vent. :-)

Good to hear from newbies. Gw'ers who start threads need to know that some topics aren't ones that lots of readers have confidence or expertise about. Picking and choosing which queries and conversations to respond to is an inevitable issue for posters who respond. There is also a fatigue that is simply the result of seeing similar conversations over and over--you'll see it if you read this website for a long period of time. The old responders are waiting for newer participants to pick up the baton on these.

Also, knowing when we're out of our element and should keep quiet is important, otherwise responding posters would just be giving out blather. Silence may be an indication that your query is unusual in some way. Similarly, lots of responses may not do much good; it's not necessarily helpful to an original poster for a responding poster to write, "Love it" or "I don't know what to say." If you get even a response or two that is at all helpful or that reinforces what you think you know, consider yourself lucky. Remember, the price of the GW advice--remind yourself it's free, a labor of love and not an entitlement.

I am dumbfounded, though, at times when I see how much work is put into someone's query, esp. design queries. The original posters of these threads just plain lucked out. Remember the "fishing booth" at the school carnival? You put a hook over the curtain and hoped to get something. Once in a while a lucky someone got more than just a paper fish.

I agree that there seems to be an orientation toward high-end fashionable kitchens and products. It's hard to put forward a less expansive or less expensive set of images but I assure you there are plenty of readers who appreciate them. It would be nice if more of them would have the courage to post, as these posters have done.

Again, thanks for the insights and the thread.

To those that feel they are being "slighted" or that no one is interested, you're not and we are interested!

However, there are a few things that you need to remember...

(1) If you post on a holiday, on a weekend during the summer, or even during the Christmas season, you may or may not get many responses...we're spending time with our families and may not get to the Forum more than once or twice or even not at all. Unanswered threads start to drop fairly quickly on this particular Forum so if your thread drops to page 2 or 3 it may not get read. Even the time of day you post can have an impact on getting responses.

For the record, try not to post late at night b/c not many people are on then and your thread may end up dropping b/f people are out of bed and checking the Forum before/after getting ready for work/getting kids ready for school, etc. Early-to-mid afternoon seems the best time...you catch the west coasters at lunch and the east coasters are starting to get home from work.

(2) We're all volunteers here and do not have the time to respond to every post. I know I often pick and choose based on what help I see the OP has already gotten or based on how much time I have to spend at the time. If I see a post is getting what I think is good advice, I skip the thread and move on to one that either hasn't had any responses or that I think needs a different "point of view" (or maybe one that piqued my interest for some reason). I also don't often get off the first or second page b/c I've already spent so much time responding to the posts on the first couple of pages...so if you're on the third or later page, I may not see your post.

(3) Maybe no one knows what to say! Granted, this is a remote possibility, but I have seen it!

Tips: Don't post to your thread again after your initial post until you see it dropping towards the end of the page. Put it all in the first post and then leave it alone.
Don't write your entire post in one paragraph...use spacing, formatting, etc. to make it easier to read.
Try to keep pictures no bigger than 400 pixels in each direction. The bigger the pic, the harder it is to use b/c you have to keep scrolling back & forth. For someone w/a small monitor/laptop screen or someone who uses large screen fonts, it's worse. If you need it bigger for us to read, then upload two versions to your photo hosting account...a 400 pixel size and the original, larger size. Post the smaller one in the thread and link to the larger one in your photo album.

And what Florantha said!

I hope I am not coming off like a crybaby as I belong to a completely unrelated forum and agree with everything you both have said.

I see the same questions asked by newbies all the time, you grow bored with it.

In my case I was hoping there were more people out there who could help me decide what color cabinet would go best with my floor I even provided pictures to help.

Anyway-thanks for the input! I will keep searching by using the search function at the bottom...took me a minute to figure that one out. :-)

The "Read Me" thread has a lot of useful information for using the Kitchens Forum (including tips about searching). If you haven't had a chance to read it yet, I think you'll be surprised how much is in that thread! [See link to current "Read Me" thread in an earlier post by me.]

Chatty, I don't often answer questions about aesthetics as I'm more of a "techie" than artistic. I usually leave those questions to those who I consider "expert" in that type of topic!

I have a different point of view on this topic. At the risk of offending some people......

here goes:

I actually get a bit annoyed when after a really interesting post there are a long string of responses thanking the poster or complimenting the poster. I am basically here looking for information and ideas - and think thankyous and general compliments would be better off communicated off the board when possible.

Some of the threads are long enough as it is and I really don't want to waste time searching through them for pertinent information.

At the same time I would feel awful if I had offended someone or hurt someones feelings - so I guess I will probably keep that in mind too and try to be more sensitive.

I haven't answered that many requests for info myself - because I'm more likely to be looking for help than offering help. But when I have, I generally do not go back to the thread looking to see if there was a response.

I see this place as an information getting tool - not so much a support group.

On the other hand....
I haven't posted much lately about my kitchen reno because unfortunately my building has decided it needs to do repairs to the slab on the floor near where my kitchen is located. Which means we are waiting for insurance approval, permits etc. no work can be done until the slab is repaired. Henrybuilt is set to deliver the cabinets on Jan. 15th but there is a possibility they will have to go into storage! yuk.

This post came up at an interesting time for me. I have been on this forum as a lurker/poster for over a year now; asking lots of questions (and thanking people ;->) at first, and then as my own knowledge and personal experience grew even venturing to offer some advice to others. Learned a ton of invaluable information, more than I did in any book or magazine, all because of this forum's generosity and helpful spirit.

Buehl, thanks :-) for your post above on people feeling slighted, because if I am to be honest, it's how I have been feeling over the past week. I excitedly posted my finished kitchen the Monday before Thanksgiving, but as opposed to most FK threads which generate 50-100+ responses, I received just 26 (and 6 of those were my own responses!). The comments I did receive were absolutely wonderful and thoughtful,and I cherish each one!

Though I redid my kitchen for my family, and we certainly are thrilled with it, after so much time invested here, and dare I say it, feeling part of this community, I admit I was looking forward to receiving the validation of the group. (I did notice maybe two other lovely new kitchens that were posted around the same time as mine, which also got what I would consider an atypically low response.)

So if people missed my kitchen, and those others, because of the holiday, and would like to see them, they are currently near the top of page 5 and there is also one on the top of page 6.

Of course, if you saw my kitchen, and just thought it was hideous and that's why you didn't comment---please be kind and let me go on thinking it was the holiday! :-)

Vent/whinge over now.

Honeychurch -- csn you please repost a link to your kitchen-picture? I'm absolutely new here and really have a dearth of anything to add to anyone's way-more-knowledgeable store of information than mine... but I can gaze delightedly at pictures! Send me the link and I'll ooh and ah with pleasure...

Florantha and Buehl, as usual, your responses said exactly what I thought and would have said if I had posted earlier.

Just to clarify...I'm not suggesting that people who post photos of finished kitchens need to thank each and everyone who comments on their kitchen. (Although we all recall that bizarre incident a few months back when a finished kitchen was posted and we never heard a single word again from the original poster - weird!)

I'm talking about the people who ask a very specific question such as: "Does anyone here have XYZ brand of range (or countertop, or whatever)? Do you recommend it and is there anything you don't like about it?" Or, "Please take a look and my proposed design, below, and tell me if you think that ____(whatever)______." It usually requires a significant amount of time for people to draft a response to this type of question. Yes, even if the original poster never comes back to say thank you, it does benefit others and becomes part of that huge body of knowledge that is Garden Web. I was just suggesting that a little feedback and thank you to those who respond is desirable and very much appreciated - at least by me.

'Nuff said!

Awhile back, three times in rapid succession, I didn't receive any kind of response when I felt that I had gone out of my way to gather information for GWers' questions, including calling a showroom to find out about availability of a product, and some other research that I can no longer even recall. It bothered me. Then I reminded myself that it's just a public forum, people get busy with real life, etc.,. So, yeah, I know what you mean. But then, I hope that I've not stepped on anyone's toes when I've gotten busy, and that I've let bygones be bygones, etc. Life is too short, etc.

I actually don't want any directed responses to this, it's not the reason I'm writing it. I am retiring from this forum after my kitchen is completed.

This forum is a warm and witty place sometimes, but only for some people. It can be very hurtful at times - seeing the sympathy extended to some people for life issues but not ordinarily to me. On the posting side, it can be frustrating to see your perfectly good question fall down with no response, but more often for me, do a perfectly good response and have it be completely ignored.

There's a definite bias towards wealthy participants and magazine kitchens - so much so that I assume anyone I respond to has a lot bigger budget than I do (or ever will). I am oh, so, inadequate with my tiny budget, odd kitchen and DIY projects and process that isn't perfect. Just giving a shout out to people who may feel that way, too!

Sometimes, preparing a response can take a lot of work. Its good or sometimes it gets ripped to shreds but is often unacknowledged and without thanks. Or what I think of as idea criticism is heard as personal attack. Believe me, things in internet conversations are taken wrong me, too. It's hard to hear intonation in writing and its surprising hard to read what's actually written and not your internal interpretation of it.

Since I mostly respond to layout questions, there are the inevitable requests for the "forum stars" to respond instead and newbees who want to explain how I don't understand the original posters needs. Jeeze!

So lately, I feel like the most unpopular kid in high school more often than I enjoy helping with kitchens. Sometimes I wonder if that's because there are more drive-bys or people who want validation only for their plans or their finished kitchen pictures. I'm not thinking about HoneyChurch or anyone else whose been around for a while; more the people whose first post IS their finished kitchen. Or perhaps the finished people who have perspective leave faster. Or maybe people don't have enough time to stick around.

I am not here doing a "y'all are do bad". I am apparently not doing anything worthwhile for anyone else or myself. I do not feel that I contribute anything of value to the understanding of kitchens. Life is too short and it's time to go!

Plus, it's definitely time to move along when you're called buehl - not that its an insult, its just that it ain't my name. :)

jill

I'm one of the guilty! But I try not to be - and I don't do if often (and often reply to each person). It just happened in fact. I was inquiring about something and read some great responses, and responded to each of them, then got caught up in life - and I don't have email notification turned on either. I have 3 small boyz so life's a constant struggle over here - plus my husband had gotten pretty sick for a couple of weeks from pneumonia - PLUS I was getting really - actually - quite depressed about the kitchen and money and all of it. When I did sign on and saw the posts last night, I saw that one INCREDIBLY GENEROUS poster/responder had actually drawn a picture for me!! This was quite a while back, too. I mean geez - that's so super super kind and helpful. I immediately thanked him but there are a few others who responded before him to whom I still need to respond! And I intend to...listen to me mea culpaing here... So I got on here today to find that thread and saw this one! Aaaargh the pain and anguish of guilt!!!

But I agree, nonetheless - that it's terribly rude not to respond at all, in most cases.

Bmorepanic - I had a very low-budget, mostly DIY, very small kitchen, and I received a TON of generous help here. I don't think you are being fair in your judgement about a bias toward wealthy kitchens. Every time I posted a question, I got wonderful helpful answers. I also tried always to respond with thanks and follow-up. I think a lot depends on how one poses a question here. I tried to be as specific as possible, didn't leave out key details (I understand that a post that omits a lot of info makes people not want to bother with it), set forth my reasoning so far (I had read that people don't like posts where the OP wants you to do all the work and make the decision for them), and made myself read it over before posting to make sure there was clarity. I am absolutely not saying any of your posts had issues, please don't think that. I am only saying that how the post is written, and the OP's follow-up, are by far more key to getting a lot of responses than how much money is being spent on the kitchen.

Bmore (Jill, nice to know your name!)--I think your advice on my recent layout post may be causing you to feel the way you do. I feel horrible about that. I value your opinions given to me as well as those you've given to others. I read a lot of threads, including those related to layouts. I have seen you comment time and time and again. Sometimes the OP takes your ideas and runs. Sometimes not. But in every case I can recall, you brought a fresh perspective that was very interesting and worth thinking about. If everyone gave the same input, where would the new ideas come from?

In my case, we had given your idea to move the kitchen to the area you suggested and to combine the family/living rooms quite a bit of thought over the past decade. It just doesn't fit us. But it was definetly worth saying it again, because it confirmed that we don't want to go in that direction. Every idea crossed off the list brings a person closer to finding THE idea. If that makes sense.

I thanked you when you posted, and I'll thank you again. I appreciate the time it takes you to think about and type a thoughtful response. It can be difficult to read someone's intent in the typed word. My internal interpretation of your tone was on ME, not you.

Wendy

Hi bmorepanic,

I know you didn't want responses to your post....my apologies for not adhering to your wishes.

I was saddened to read your post here on the Kitchen forum about you leaving the forum....and even sadder to read your reasons why.

I hope you reconsider.

I am, what is called in my circle, from the wrong side of the tracks.

No way do I belong on a forum with kitchens that are pictured which are as amazing if not moreso than the Hollywood/Brentwood/Malibu kitchens where I use to cater.

How do you think I felt opening myself up and adding pictures of my little kitchen with it's Craigs List cabinets and it's sink so cheap because of defect that we had to use rocks (yes, large rocks from our backyard) to straighten out the warp when we set it in place?

And yet, I got responses. Wonderful responses!
The responses I got made me feel that those folks were from my area, my financial situation.....the folks made me feel as if I was an equal, or they were my equal.
The responses never left me feeling 'less than'.

OK, at first I was scared chit-less to ask a question on this forum and to show pics? Gasp! My knees were shaking as I hit the "Submit your Message" Button!
And then you all rallied around, offered suggestions, opinions and lent me plenty of your shoulders to lean on and made me feel like an equal.

Me, a high school graduate with only two years of Jr. College married a blue-collar worker, raised five kids and have been married 34 years this past October.
Me! I can talk kitchens with others who understand the frustrations...I don't care if it's $2 a sq. ft. tile or $60 a sq. ft. tile....the frustrations with wrong orders, bad installation or crummy installers is the same.

Every single time I read a post about a kitchen lay-out, I learn something new!
Actually, any post I read here I always learn something new.
That's all due to you and the rest of the posters who give of themselves, their time so generously.

Unless I have a long-lost relative die in the immediate future, one who was over the top wealthy and left me a bunch of money in their will, no way will I have a kitchen in my lifetime that can even come close to those I've seen on this forum.

But because of folks like you, who offer your generous time and advice, so willingly......no matter the size of the kitchen or checkbook, I don't have to feel badly about not having that marvelous kitchen.

Doesn't mean I have to stop dreaming or drooling over these gorgeous rooms either..... rooms that are art all to themselves.
Nope, nobody can take away my drooling. :)

But it's folks like you who make this forum what it is and it's a sad day when any one of you TKO's decide they aren't important enough....OMG, You are!!!

I DO hope you reconsider.
*gets up off knees-goes searching for more purdy pictures of kitchens*

jill, notwithstanding the fact you don't want any directed responses, I really have to state that I completely agree with so much of what you said. You stated it much clearer that I ever could.

For me, I'm mainly on the sidelines because I didn't find this forum until after my kitchen was done, but it became obvious very quickly that there ARE "forum stars" whose posts generate the most responses, and whose responses are eagerly sought. I wouldn't be so harsh as to say fawned over, but there is certainly that element to it.

I don't feel I have much to offer on this forum, but when I do respond, there's been little to no acknowlegement, never mind a thank you. I didn't seem to be able to get into the game, so I come here less and less.

Because I don't know any of you, I can admit that in a teeny place deep down I feel somewhat slighted like the invisible girl in high school. Now that I've graduated from the cliques of high school, it's fun to come back and visit, with no expectations.

I don't need to state that I don't want any responses, because there won't BE any anyhow LOL.

Sugar Maple--Yes, there are "forum stars" or what I prefer to look at as "forum regulars" who have spent enough time here and on their own search for kitchen knowledge to earn that "status", if you will. Those are the people I secretly hope will reply when I begin a thread because I KNOW they are knowledgable. BUT I also expect that someone who doesn't post very often will pop up with their experience or ideas because they've had hands-on with the product I'm interested in or what-have-you and finally have the opportunity to share. I don't know who these posters will be because they don't post very often. AND, most importantly, I gratefully thank every person who posts. I apologize to you if you've not been thanked by others. I appreciate EVERYONE here who takes their precious personal time to reply to anyone's post.

Ditto a lot of the above. I've been floating around here for a couple of years now (yeesh...) and it did take some time to develop a thick enough skin to post about our dinky little kitchen (and dinky little budget, at least relative to everything here!) and not be frustrated by responses directing me to bigger/better/more expensive things. (My husband still faults GW for our budget getting as high as it is, though I actually think we've done a pretty good job of keeping it in check!) At the same time, though, it helped me learn how to articulate what it was I wanted by explaining things here, getting feedback and criticism, and then rethinking. Now I post questions with abandon, and probably thank people to a fault (since sometimes my threads have more posts by me than anyone else!) I'm also pleased that I have enough of a clue these days that I can sometimes help other people, too---but at the same time, once our kitchen is finished, I doubt I'll spend much time here. When we were planning our wedding, I posted on a wedding board a lot, peppering others with questions and answering theirs where I could. Once that was over and done with---no more wedding board, even though there's a huge number of people who do hang around there long afterwards. I suspect it will be the same here---on to other projects. If my husband has anything to say about it, you'll be able to find me over in Bathrooms in a few years' time... ;)

I'll also say that @bmorepanic, you've definitely helped shape our kitchen over the many months of planning, so hopefully I've always said thanks! And @honeychurch, I saw and loved your kitchen photos, even though I didn't post anything---I rarely post on finished kitchen threads unless I have a question about something, so in a funny way, the better/more informative the initial posts and photos are, the less likely I am to post something myself. :)

I think it is tricky to build a virtual community and have people (new and old) get to know the etiquette and social norms in a different type of space than those in which we live our day-to-day lives. I like the idea of adding some of buehl's tips to the FAQ---might help prevent frustration in the future!

What an interesting thread! Nclakehouse, I understand why you initiated this discussion in the first place. I think it is just good manners -- whether in person or on the internet-- to acknowledge helpful advice when it is solicited and given. Would you stop your car to ask for directions and then, after receiving them, speed off to your destination without a "thank you?" Same thing goes for internet encounters. Granted, things can happen in the space of time between our first post and our return to these pages. But, if we have the time to put our interests and concerns out here, then I'm thinking we should also make time to acknowledge the responses.

As for bmorepanic, all I can say is "don't go!" Although I'm an oldtimer of sorts who has gone from active poster status to that primarily of a lurker herself, what I need you to know is that I have loved your posts, Jill! I think you have a helluva lot of good advice to share, including some from which I've taken personal benefit. IOW, there's no question that I find your comments and opinions to worthwhile shares. And, except for the occasional trolls and spammers among us, that is largely true for just about everyone who dares to hit that "submit" button on a response. Thank you!

Lastly, I just want to say to Amity -- welcome!!! I, too, have lived most of my life on the "wrong side of the tracks." But I don't think such a phenomenon exists on this forum. Instead, and as one who lives in NYC, I see this place as a Grand Central (Kitchen) Station where there are scores of tracks, platforms and train schedules. And, although we may all converge here for a spell, the fact is that we're all heading to varied destinations. Frankly, I'm glad that some of us are going to a Mansion in Palm Beach while others of us are going to a Little House on the Prairie (and everywhere else beyond and in between). IMHO, that all makes for a much more interesting chat about our respective journeys. All aboard!

Well, Sugar Maple, I may not have responded to you before, but I have seen and appreciated some of your posts. You're not invisible.

Like with any other group, there are people who have a lot to say, and who do a lot for the group, and there are people who sit in the corner who mutter things that don't apply to the topic at hand. There are people who jump up all the time starting a new topic of conversation, and people who hardly ever say anything at all. It's just the way of things. Add lurkers, who I guess are akin to the people who sneak in to the back of the meeting but never pay dues or participate, and there's all kinds here.

When my kitchen was stuck for months in waiting for tile land, and I had nowhere to sit but at the computer, and nothing to do but work (at the computer) and reach out to GW for fellow feeling and company, I posted a lot. Now, I open a few posts, mostly on the first page, and hope that if someone really wants my attention she'll give a shout out or send an e-mail (and hope that if she has a question she'll ask me, because I tend to be a bit literal, and if you send a conversation starter I'll follow up on what's said rather than asking why you really wrote). Sometimes now I'll be way late to the party. There'll be a member for months who has participated daily, but whom I don't really "know". That doesn't mean that that member isn't as valuable as any other!! I generalize that to whether one of the "stars" has responded or not. They are also busy, and they also probably miss posts and people. But they'll respond to a shout out! (Frankly, I was surprised up topic because I always counted Bmorepanic among the stars!)

I really don't see cliques, but there are people who have worked through their whole kitchens on the forum, and who have been active participants for years. These people are going to be known to a lot more people than those who hardly say anything. Their threads will be opened just because their names are on them. We have people who breeze by now and then, who have been members for 5-10 years. Maybe more. They tend to pop out of the woodwork when someone they know has a thread. Want to be known? POST!!!! Unlike the real life groups where you can be seen even if you rarely say anything, here, saying something is being seen. The more you're known, the more people are going to be attracted because you're asking the question, whether or not they're interested in your topic.

The only bias I've seen for wealthy kitchens has been in the ooohs and aaaahs on finished kitchens threads. Some exceedingly creative people do instant oooh (as in the picture makes people drool) kitchens on a tiny budget, but many do a "normal" kitchen when they have limited funds. They not only have fewer options and may have less time to fret over the perfect thing, they often really need to keep a sharp eye on resale value, so don't want to go out on a limb. Perfectly nice, lovely kitchens, when they're posted when everyone is around to make comments, get a lot of enthusiastic responses, but the knockout ones that are just a bit different will get more. It's the way of the world. It's not a reflection on you or your kitchen.

It's just that the girl with the purple Jimmy Choos is going to get more comments on her shoes, even if the commenters wouldn't wear them on a bet, than the very appropriate, nameless black pumps with the sensible heel and all day comfort. Most of the commenters are probably more interested in finding as good a pair of black pumps for themselves, and will eventually ask the questions, but only the most obsessive are going to stop when they first see them to ask if they're sable or ebony and if they're calf or kid. The rest will ask the group, "Sable or ebony?" and the pump wearer will explain how she chose sable, how much better it looks on the kid than the calf, how important it is to make sure the shank is strong, which makers have the shapeliest heels, and who has the best prices. It's not that people aren't interested in the black pumps. It's just that they'll give more advice requests than ooohs on first sight.

I rarely look at or comment on the finished kitchens any more, unless it's one I've been following through its process, because I can't keep up with them and don't want to make people feel left out. It's a durned if you do, durned if you don't situation.

Personally, I'm only really familiar with 100% custom kitchens. I can help you choose a laminate color, but I can't tell you anything about cabinet lines. Similarly, I rarely comment on open L kitchens because these usually work no matter how poorly laid out they are, and other people have more useful ideas for them. This is not a bias toward top end kitchens. Just what I know. When I joined Garden Web, the kitchens were by and large ultra-high-end, and mine felt small and simple. Now we have a heck of a lot more mid-range kitchens, and mine is on the high end. I'm sure that others have similar reasons for answering or not. Like, if you ask about XYZ cabinets, because they're affordable, but no one knows the company, you won't get any answers. The exception is that if you ask if you should scrimp, you'll usually hear "no". That's because for most of us this is a once and done thing, and we cook, a lot, and think that a wonderful kitchen is worth the expenditure.

The forum biases I see are, as above, if you have the money we'll tell you to spend it. If you don't have the money, however, we'll tell you to settle, stall the redo, make do, but don't go into debt, endanger your financial health, use up all your savings, or any other "bad" thing. There's also a bias toward good grammar and spelling (with allowances for the fact that this is typed speech, and sometimes we don't have time to proofread, so errors are inevitable). There's bias towards good manners and supportiveness (with a subgroup who tend to get snarky when things get too touchy-feely, poor-babyish). One other big bias is toward lawfulness--follow codes, be environmentally aware and responsible, don't dodge taxes, don't steal our pictures, etc.. Finally, if an outsider comes around and is seen to harm one of our own, the group will gang up on him/her, then bully and hound him/her, until the offender ceases and goes away.

If you don't get a lot of responses, go ahead and bump your thread! If that doesn't work, try asking again with a more descriptive title. I will often check threads that sink with zero or one response and will say whatever, even if I can't answer, just to bump the thread. Next time I look there are often 14 responses.

Back to the OP's point, I tend to overdo the thank-yous. Can't help it. That's the way I am. I'm not looking for thanks when I post, but when people take the time to respond to my questions and help me, I'm really that grateful. It likely interferes with the flow of the thread and I try to wait and do a long response to many at once. Those are harder for others to read, but easier to skip for the people who aren't mentioned.

bmorepanic, for the record, I always read you as one of the regular board experts, who always has good info to share. :)

I rarely comment here but I do read quite a lot of the posts, even though my kitchen was finished 2 years ago. And I must apologize because I know I've done the drive-by posting, usually right before a busy (for me) time. Then I go back and find my thread on page 4, and I feel weird bumping it up just to thank people for their advice. I don't comment on new kitchens, whether I like them or not. I just don't, no offense to anyone!

One thing that struck a nerve with me recently ... a poster was talking about his/her kitchen budget, and mentioned $3-4k for appliances. A responder said that for that, one could only get "standard" appliances; that her own fridge was $4 grand and it wasn't even a built-in! (Horrors!) I felt so bad for the OP. Not everyone can spend $10-35k on kitchen appliances, and regular sold-at-Sears appliances work just fine for most of America.

I haven't been here very long and won't be staying. The last couple of days there have been snide comments about this being a forum for high-end kitchens and wealthy participants. Yes, we just did a whole house renovation on what our real estate market says is an expensive house- our reno budget was 30% of the value of our house. We have been in our 40 year old house for 20 years and could no more afford to buy it now than I could fly to the moon. As far as it being called wealthy because of the dollar value of the reno - YOU PEOPLE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME.

FIrst of all though I want to say the following;
TO DIY'ers - you people amaze me with your knowledge and expertise. The fact that you know all about power tools and what they are and how to use them, that you know how to balance the bubble in a level, that you know the names of screwdrivers boggles my mind. The only diy that I have ever done is painting. I painted our kitchen cabinets and changed the hardware twice and painted the interior of our house a couple of times as well. For me, a screwdriver is used to take the lid off the paint can, the nail is used to put holes in the rim to prevent drips and a hammer is used to put the lid back on. If you do the work with your DH you have my admiration as well. My all time favourite kitchen is the one done on I think a $15k budget with Ikea cabinets with the big fireplace in the space. You guys know which one.

To the visionaries - the people who can take an 80's Oak kitchen and completely transform it with a coat of paint, a new counter and new hardware - you are my reno-heroes. To be able to see beyond what a lot of people would think is passe and to breathe new life into it is an artform.

For me, we knew the work would eventually have to be done and we wanted to have half in cash. Now, don't feel sorry for me - but I haven't been out to a movie or dinner in over 10 years and won't be anytime soon, I live in blue jeans and t-shirts with frayed cuffs, holidays - nonexistent, cars held together with duct tape until the mechanic says they're dead. I look at some of the accessories that people have in their kitchens and their decorated dining rooms and that won't happen on our budget until this is payed off.
We were finally able to do the renos and by then we had 3 leaky bathrooms, a broken kitchen sink with leaky faucet and broken cabinets. A bulk of our money went to rewiring, replumbing and reinsulated the whole house. Yes, we went with good quality but there are no frou-frous in this job. No extra moldings, or unnecessary appliances.
My point is , that those who are making the snide comments know nothing about how we got our kitchens. We ALL, everyone on this forum, are in an enviable position of being able to do something to our kitchens to spruce them up. Meanwhile, many people are going to the food bank just to beable to put dinner on their kitchen table.
I thought that this was a more supportive group than it is turning out to be - I left cliques and snippiness behind when I graduated from high school.
Thankyou to everyone who, when I did make a suggestion or comment didn't shoot me down for them!

Ok, guilty as charged. It's not that I'm not grateful, it's just like idrive65 said. I posted and got responses, then life got in the way. In this case my sister had her baby five weeks early. My mother flew out to be with them, and I was left doing all the things she would have normally done for Thanksgiving. Then when I finally have a minute I don't want to draw more attention to the fact that I'm so late saying thanks that I just feel it might be better not to say anything. I apologize and I just want to say to everyone that I truly appreciate everything I have learned her in the past year. I am not a regular poster, mostly a lurker but I have learned more about kitchens than I ever thought I needed to know. I love this site and I so appreciate the fact that you are 'here' for me when I need you.

Long time lurker here.

GW is a veritable fount of information on any and all subjects home/household/living related. Many of my decisions made in my own homes have been influenced by what I've read and seen here.

Also, as far as forum manners go, this forum is one of the best behaved and most helpful of those I've encountered across the internet. It seems that no matter someone's tax bracket, they are more than willing to help out or offer thoughtful opinions.

But still....I don't think I've ever posted in the Kitchens forum. Reason? Even though everyone seems so nice, I personally feel like I don't belong--which is my own issue, I suppose, but no matter how friendly and welcoming a group is, when you see people posting about scrapping $5000+ worth of tile on their backsplash because they "changed their minds", or went through 3 or 4 $500 faucets, or are debating the merits of this stove-that-costs-half-my-salary vs that stove-that-costs-half-my-salary it's hard to feel as though this is the right place to ask whether laminate or engineered wood would be better in a kitchen.

Plus, it just makes you feel less successful and crappy in comparison. Sometimes what you used to be thrilled with can begin to look clunky and dull when compared with how others are living.

But no, in my opinion I don't think anyone has been excessively rude (although we all have our bad days).

And yes--don't post a thread and never return to give an update! It's infuriating even for the lurkers!

As a long-time forum participant, on different forums in different sites - this is all par for the course.

Lurkers lurking,
drive-by or orphaned or just plain forgotten posts,
long-winded answers,
off-topic posts,
seemingly curt or tactless posts,
unhelpful answers,
incredibly long and detailed questions,
incredibly helpful and detailed answers,
repetitive questions,
long-time posters,
first-time posters,
first-and-last-time posters,
emotional posters,
heated disagreements,
lasting friendships,
and on and on.

It will never change nor should it be expected to. It's the life of an active forum.

The best thing to do is try not to get annoyed by the posts you don't like, add your own two cents (or for some folks, four cents or more - LOL!) if you want to, and move on.

@byronroad, I just want to also throw out that in addition to sharing your amazement at the DIYers and visionaries---I am also always astounded by the people with the guts to take on whole house remodels. We are barely staying sane just with the kitchen reno---I cannot even begin to imagine having more than one piece of the house moving at the same time!

Also, in spite of knowing some of the power tools stuff, I just now learned the nail in lid trick...so, thanks! (We are about to go into painting overdrive mode right now, so very timely...)

I actually appreciate the range of kitchens here---I think I've gotten just as many ideas from high-end kitchens (some of them very inexpensive concepts---just not things I knew to look for!) as from the budget renos. And I will say that, in spite of his good-natured griping that GW has given me far too many ideas about things we would never have known to buy otherwise, DH's go-to closer for debates about all things kitchen-related is now "well, can you go ask your kitchen people about it??"---which, I think, says a lot. So, thanks. :)

See. These most recent posters have pointed us to where the perceived wealth problem comes from. We've had plenty of high end kitchens, scads of moderate ones, but not so many small, tight budget ones. No matter how much we might obsess over getting just the right tile in a high end kitchen, it's a luxury. It takes some extra creativity to make something beautiful out of the remaindered Dal tiles that started at less than a dollar each. But it can be done, with a wonderful result!! I'd think that kind of project would be one of the most interesting ones, and which would attract the most conversation and brainstorming, but it's not going to happen UNLESS YOU POST!!!

If you'd rather have granite but have a Formica budget, so what? For the amateur designers here, it's just as much fun looking at Formica as looking at natural stone. POST. If you'd rather have a wrapped bullnose edge on your Formica but must DIY and think you can only do wood molding, POST!! Maybe someone knows how you can DIY the bullnose or knows how you can barter for fabrication or something. You won't know if you don't ask. If you need to get cabinets and hood that will fit around your perfectly good, existing range, because there's not a thing wrong with it and you intend to use it forever, but it's a non-standard size, POST. People have been there, whether with some fancy French monster that was airlifted here and white gloved into the house, or Grandma's O'Keefe & Merritt that's still running strong, or the Hotpoint that came with the house. POST.

If all of you on slim budgets would post, we'd have more balance and the new people joining us with limited funds might feel more welcome.

I love the small kitchens, especially the ones that reuse old stuff. There's no challenge in designing a big kitchen with a big budget. Pfft. That's just pick-a-color and be done with it. :)

Anyway, on topic: if you post a question and never even reply, people think you didn't read it and they wasted their time. You don't even have to acknowledge every post. Just say "thanks, y'all!"

And then don't be like me and use everyone for a remodel (you know who you are!) and not ever show the finished kitchen. (It really isn't done yet--I still have a linoleum counter and a Corian backsplash 18 months after everything else is done.)

Not to hijack this thread, but Fori, are you calling me out? :-) Technically, my kitchen was "done" in the spring of 2009. But, like you, I still haven't posted it, while I wait on hard-to-find cash for the unfinished pantry as well as a couple of do-overs, and a few finishing touches. LOL!

One thing that no one's mentioned as a reason for a post not receiving a lot of responses is that sometimes one or two responses have answered the question 100%, and there is nothing more to add. Some people think that quantity is more important than quality. I get frustrated when an OP keeps seeking additional answers after receiving excellent ones from 1 or 2 responses. I think that before someone claims that they are not in the clique (huh?) or some such, they should consider the answers they've already received; perhaps there's nothing more to add.

Gosh...I hardly know where to start. This thread has taken a turn that I never intended. All I wanted to do was suggest that if you ask a question, be polite and acknowledge and thank those who have taken the time to respond. Very simple. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'm a Southerner and I was raised (oops -"reared"; I also was taught THAT) that way. Yes, I realize that life gets in the way - it does for me as much as anyone else. But when you have the time, hunt down the thread, or send at private email to thank anyone that really invested time in responding to you, if you can. No, I don't expect it, nor is it required. Yes, it is a public forum and opinions are offered freely with no expectation of "payback" or thanks. But be honest, wouldn't it make you feel good if you were on the receiving end?

I'll mostly stay out of the other discussion that has entered this thread re: the "outsiders" vs. the perceived "in" clique. I'll only say that in my several years of being mostly a lurker and only occasional contributor to this forum, I have found more generous people than I ever imagined existed out there. I have observed advice being offered freely regardless of the poster's budget. In fact I am most impressed by the people who do some really incredible kitchens for very little money, just by employing some creativity and recycling of cabinets, appliances, countertops, etc.

So to those, who are tempted to drop out because they feel inferior because of a smaller budget: Stick around. You'll be amazed at what you see others do, and appreciated for the contribution you are also able to make.

I think we should check our feelings at the door, and I kind of agree with SadieBrooklyn that long lists of acknowledgments are hard to wade through. I try to do a blanket "thank you," and I hope I haven't offended anyone by leaving them out, but I am totally sure that I've never been upset by being "ignored" around here. I just assume some combination of the factors buehl listed, or maybe that what I posted was useless to the OP. So what? I try to think over answers carefully, but sometimes I don't, and there is no edit function here (big LOL), so I know I've posted dumb things before, hitting "submit" too early.

But, as gina_w posted, it is what it is. This is really the most polite forum I've been to -- which I actually think is part of the problem, in a counterintuitive way. False expectations, and all those things.

Guilty! That's me. I've tried to post thank yous, but I've also had life get in the way (CPA exam, a half-done kitchen and boys that have me on the run.) Sometimes, by the time I get back to a thread I've asked a question on, I can't even find it anymore!

Anyway, I want to say how much I DO appreciate this forum. Even though I can't go with high-end, but have managed to stay middle-of-the-road on my budget, I have gotten fantastic ideas from all of you. I drool at some of the kitchens. I'm excited to see how creative people can be on a tight budget.

I'm wondering if we aren't ALL feeling the stress of the holiday season, and if you are also currently in the middle of a remodel, then it adds to that stress.

I guess what I'm saying is if my manners have slipped, please forgive me. I appreciate ALL of the advice that I have received on this forum. I also appreciate being able to "peek" into other people's lives, wherever you are...finished kitchen, just starting, money is no object, or I've got to do it myself with what I already have. So please, keep posting!

(I'm calling me out, Martha. Not you. Wait a minute. Hey Martha! Show and tell time!!)

I do suspect that a great deal of observed poor forum etiquette is due to crummy forum software. This forum is SO 1990s. Even with "notify me" of replies on, I only get about half, even on the same thread.

I guess I fit in a very tiny niche of this forum. I don't feel like there are that many folks outside of the KF that appreciate the effort that we have all put into our kitchen remodel.

Uhm....well do you want to talk about your Meile oven 5 YEARS after install...how about that OLD "old" soapstone" ...or well...yeh...I love my Twins too...they are now in 5th grade !

I have patina but it is from the payments after the remodel ! And then there is the topic of how it all looks YEARS later.

OK I am mostly teasing. I love being here for a lot of reasons. I like the responses I get when I post my pics...I would be lying if I said I didn't. I love seeing the new kitchens...mostly the ones that have really unique touches but they are all interesting to see. I have no possibility of ever doing another and this was my first /only so I live vicariously . Please keep posting.

There are so many talented and amazingly creative folks out there. Some of us have most of the day to post...when we are not running/biking/baking/cleaning the Miele ! Some have 4 kids in school and homeschool and work outside the home and have DEBT and worries way beyond what I can or want to imagine. I am grateful for you all.

I hope that I inspire a few, OK a lot , of you to bake bread. I know there are some that have been moved to try and their reward is my reward. Thank you for putting up with my posts and I in turn will love yours. c

believe it or not, there was once a time i WISHED no one responded to one of my posts. it was over on the building forum and i was venting about strangers driving onto my property to use the porta-john. while many did come to my rescue, i was basically tarred and feathered for being insensitive to the needs of strangers who MIGHT have serious medical issues which would require them to pee often. it was the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen on garden web ...and the thread FINALLY died out after a whopping 150 posts -which is the limit for a single thread.

and even though i try to make a point of replying to my threads, sometimes they fall off the first couple of pages and i forget to look for them. don't mean to make excuses, but people do have lives, after all. i'd like to think people understand.

This thread really IS interesting. I know it's only cyber space and so we can only care about each other so much (haha) but that's what's so interesting: that even though we don't know each other and we all have these different locations and backgrounds and strengths and vulnerabilities, etc, so many of us are feeling the connection between strangers - and all presumably over something as superficial as kitchens! And yet there's something about the whole "sitting around the 'kitchen table' together" concept that is pretty timeless, isn't it. In the case of this forum, sometimes it's as simple as enjoying the validation of shared tastes. Some e.g. who are women we might enjoy that sense of female camaraderie (although in many cases we don't know if we're talking to men or women, which is good too). We get to know personal stories and learn a bit about where people are from. We learn to see those with more money or less money than ourselves as the multi-dimensional people that they are. You know? Pretty cool, for wasting too much time on the computer. ;)

I have really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and hearing the different (and common!) experiences.

I have learned so much from the forum - not as much on the technical floor plan side (I found the site after our ship had sailed on that) but for me, it was seeing all the smart, different, and amazing ways a kitchen can be done. It was profoundly inspirational for me. I was no longer held hostage by my GC and "the way that everyone does it" - it was so freeing! There was usually a different and better approach that someone on here had discovered, and others had added to and enhanced. While I appreciated all of the information and experience on the forum, the best result for me from being on here was the confidence to do my kitchen the way I wanted to do it. No KD or architect would have given me that. So thanks yall. :)

How about we create one thread called with a subject line "Gratitude" and anyone who feels the need to thank can go there and post and anyone who needs some thanks can read it.

Seriously, this is a nice place compared to most places on the net. Go try and post a problem about your Windows PC somewhere! You might be accused of abusing your children and/or your pets!

funny how we each take things...I think bmorepanic is one of the stars, part of the the in-crowd

ok, now i'll respond! i completely agree with segbrown. feelings must be checked at the door. although, it was just last week i received some of the most heart-felt comments i've ever seen to a post about my MIL. i never know what to expect when i drop by!

i have been here for a number of years already and i can honestly say that although i did not hire a kitchen designer and tell people who inquire that *I* designed my kitchen, it wasn't JUST me. it was everyone who has ever replied to one of my queries and graciously offered their opinions and advice. i studied kitchens i was drawn to and can't say there's a better place to share info for the TKO (that's totally kitchen obsessed, for the newbies!).

i will admit, i have one of those big budget kitchens. i don't know why, but i feel a wee bit embarrassed. but i can get over that, so no worries. i will also admit that giving out advice regarding layout and technical difficulties are not my strength. at all. i was an art director for many years and i'm trained to make things look good ...and that's all. i'd love to think my kitchen will function well (i THINK it will!) but i'm certain many others are much better qualified to position appliances and design work stations that would absolutely SING. so while you may see me around please don't think i'm ignoring you because you're new ...or your kitchen is not large or 'magazine worthy" (not my words). it has absolutely nothing to do with it. just that i don't feel i could offer anything of value.

i'm not ignoring anyone. i swear! so, welcome to the kitchen forum. arrive expecting nothing and leave with a reassurance in your own abilities you never knew could be achieved. that, anyway has been my experience. it's great to have so much new blood around!

I wanted to think long and hard about a response to this thread... and then I realized I didn't really want to. I think I get to play the offensive one for this round.

Before I do the offensive bits, I wanted to agree with Florantah, Plllog and Idrive that I have always considered Bmorepanic to be one of the "ins" and I'm sorry that she doesn't see herself as such.

Okay! Time for things that might be offensive:

Some of the kitchens here are nicer, better, friendlier, weirder, etc than the others. Some are just plain freaky. It's true! Some people have ugly babies too. Not everyone gets the dreams/abilities/money so you get different results. Those kitchens will often get less results; Our familys always said "If you have nothing nice to say... " but that is a weird road to follow on the internet. So YES it is possible that you posted a kitchen some of us didn't like.

It's also true that there is an "in" group here... just like every group youve ever been a part of. Just like high school, just like college, just like work. Some of us are more "in" then the others. AND it will always be that way. That perfect group where all are equal? It doesn't exist. What changes things is that here, on forum, the "in" croud isn't the same people it is in real life. In real life, I am an outsider at/with my clients, and insider with my husband, and outsider with a fantasy football league and an insider with a star trek marathon.

YOU TOO can become an insider. TO BECOME IN YOU HAVE TO PARTICIPATE. Just like high school, college and work you have to put it out there. You don't become in by (the desire to quote the velveteen rabit is huge) waiting in the wings. I have been on the forum for over a year and I believe that slowly people are getting to know me and becoming familiar with me. It takes a long time and a lot of committment. Why should YOU be in?

Lastly, and firstly, I want to say how amazing it is that a thread that started off about showing gratitude became a thread in which people who have recieved a lot of help from all of us and each other felt the need to anounce thier emminent departure because they don't like us. I'm really just floored by that. It's really a strange thing to do. I liken it to my neighbor who is such a great guy he mowes our little lawn with our big riding mower for free! He's a great guy who is also grumbly, grumpy and a PIA. I wonder what he would do if one day as he was mowing my lawn I wandered up and said, Yep, can't wait to get out of this house and leave all of you jerks behind...

I really respect several of the posters who said they were planning on leaving once their own projects were done and I wish them the best luck.

This has been a fascinating discussion.

My reaction to the thread, like my reaction to the forum, is pleasure at how many facets of humanity are at play here as we work -- individually and collectively -- on a shared interest.

I've been a regular participant of three anonymous computer forums in my life: one for people who were learning to use a tricky computer program, one intense one for people who were all dealing with the same life crisis, and this one. Each time it's been a valuable human experience -- one that meant a lot to me at the time. Each time I became fond of a wide range of people who shared parts of themselves with the forum, each time I made some real life friends, each time I enjoyed the human comedy as it played out on whatever field of interest we were sharing. What kept me with those forums was always the same: the percentage of interesting, involved, generous, intelligent and creative participants was high, and there were a few colorful snarly types who kept things popping.

As Theresse said earlier: pretty wonderful for a computer-generated stay-at-home activity. ;) Thanks to you all.