Your kitchen should be what you want it to be. Since you're firm about where you want your baking center my only suggestion is (and this is based on that fact that you bake in big batches) is to make it longer then 3'. I'd want at least a 4' long counter. Unless... your planning marble or whatever top you choose to extend beyond the 3' x 36" wide counter.

Katie, I think the revised layout looks much better than the first one. You won't regret having your dishes and glasses close to the dishwashers. The fridge and freezer placement is better since they're close to the prep sink/range and kids and guests don't have to cross the work space to access them.

Personally, the back to back seating wouldn't work for me. It doesn't look like there's enough room and people wouldn't really be able to talk face to face. I think it's the riskiest thing in the layout meaning you'll either love it or hate it. What I do like about it, though, is that kids or guests can sit at either island depending on where you're working, which is really kind of nice. It looks like you'll have a gorgeous kithcn whatever you do.

Btw, don't underestimate the usefulness of a good KD. The one from the cabinet company I'm using did a wonderful job tweaking the details of my layout and adding visual interest.

Sometimes, I think about stuff in a unique way (need I say crazy?). I want to make sure I understand the patterns of movement in the house - and I know that's hard cause it ain't built.

BLUE is snacker routes.
PURPLE is food service and dishes.
RED is the cuppa tea route.
ORANGE is party circulation.

I don't have a circulation route to the outside because I don't know which space you'd use for a party. I'm guessing day to day outdoor is on the covered porch outside the kitchen and ?morning room?

SO, I'd like to know if you think this is right. I have another question about if you think you'll set out buffets in the kitchen. Do you hire assistance for larger parties?

I'm sorta thinking about ... how much time you'll spend walking around ... and maybe about making guests at home in the kitchen while out of your way ... whether you need a bar/coffee service area.

{{gwi:1970084}}

It helps me to see the whole house layout. katie... I forget... do you have kids? I assume they play in the family room or great room?

I ask because if it were me I'd design a kitchen that opened to the great room and family room. But... I am admittedly; an open floor plan kinda girl.

You have an enormous space to work with lucky girl!

My opinion, meant not to be critical but helpful:

If I had a one-cook kitchen I'd want it as efficient as possible and the way the 2 islands are set up, it doesn't look that way to me...Lots of walking around and through.

I doubt you'd ever really get 4 people seated in that area squeezed between the 2 islands. Only the outside person would feel free to move around and get out...Especially the middle 2 would be, or at least feel, trapped. Recommended distance behind seating, where people need to get through or access cabinets, etc., is 5 ft. Rules are meant to be broken ;-), but I wouldn't go any narrower than 4 ft and would feel better about 4 1/2. And this is with seating only on one side, which I think you have now?

I'm thinking the extra cabinetry to do 2 islands will be more expensive than a faucet? I think you had a very legitimate reason for wanting a sink by the baking area, which is why I'd hope to see the prep sink be handy to both cooking and baking, or add an extra...For the baking center it wouldn't have to be as large, or probably need a large faucet?

I think your fridge/freezer/pantry location will work great with the prep sink where it is.

I just don't want you to end up with a kitchen that has work paths that are long and complex, and that is so filled up with cabinetry, it's big, but 'lives' small or tight. You have such an amazing space with the size and all the big windows, and they styling you're working toward. I want it to work amazingly for you, too.

I think this version is an improvement. One suggestion: get a bunch of empty cardboard cartons together, find a large, flat expanse on your property, set up the cartons to match the dimensions of your proposed cabinets, islands, and appliances. This needn't be exact, but the aisles and islands should be close to exact. Carry stuff around to get a "body in motion" sense of how you will be moving around and whether you will be interpreting the space as smooth or interrupted by pathway obstacles. People move differently, so it really would be best for you to experiment.

remodelfla: the bake center is 4' long x 3' deep and yep, two kids (5 & 6 years old) ok, so i had to post a pic, see below. i didn't post the 2nd floor elevation which has a rather large play room over the garage at mid level between the first and second floors. there will be seating in there and a TV mounted to the wall. my hope is that they will keep their "stuff" in the playroom. at least the majority of it!
bmorepanic: yes, the routes look about right. outside the breakfast room will be a porch with grill and table/chairs and overhead portico. outside the great room is a covered patio with outdoor sofa/chair seating in front of the fireplace. so for now the outdoor eating area is the smaller porch to the side of the kitchen. we'll build a larger area after the pool is installed (phase 2, not for a while!). and i will set out buffets and hire assistance for larger parties. the bar will be in the great room. coffee can be set up on the counter between fridge and freezer or any of the other counters. i have one of those large urn things.

rhome: of course you're right. four people couldn't fit in that space at the island comfortably, if at all. and yes... another faucet is less than another island... so, now i go back to the single island? with another sink?

what do you say girls? do i go back to one island and another sink? i don't want to make the two islands any longer, as they will fall out into the traffic zones. it sure would look nice though... (sigh) ...but so will one island. if i do that, am i pretty much there?!

did i tell you how much i appreciate the help? i love to cook and bake so while i want it to look FABULOUS i want it to really work... and you know what else? this is a GREAT thing to have to worry about. oh, and these are the two other people that live in our house:

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1970081}}

i did a new layout with one island. how am i doing now?

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1970082}}

Going to be kind of a dissenter here as I really liked the two islands but I like them better if you had them parallel to each other as momto4kids did--I think the flow of the kitchen could be worked out w/ the islands positioned in this manner and it was obvious in your previous threads that you really liked the idea of two. Positioning the islands in this manner would give you an open walkway from your baking center to your ovens rather than having to maneuver around them. Would also allow 4 people to sit on the 2nd island w/ their backs to the fridge/freezer wall and looking in. (The layout w/ one island is also nice so not trying to take anything away from it!)

That's looking much better to me now. Do you like it?

I was trying to work up a plan to show you and we came out pretty close to each other:

I like the two islands because they allow you better access to the frig. However, you have 6 or 7 feet between the islands and frig, so I'd place the seating on that end of the islands. You'll have lots of space for extra storage in the islands with easy access for one person and won't miss upper cupboards where all the windows are. (I really want to help, but DH isn't feeling well, so I need to go.) Is the 48" a rangetop or full range? Be sure you can open the turbochef, bend over, back up, without having your bum hit the range. Make sense?

Have you tried a layout with the 2 islands oriented as farmhouse suggested?

What about the moving the sink near the baking center to the hutch area in between the frig/freezer? Easy for coffee maker fill ups, hand washing, quick counter clean ups over there.

Does the baking center have to be in the middle of that counter run? How about moving it closer to the end of the counter. If it's going to look like a piece of furniture, I'd think it would more likely be place on the end rather than in the middle.

well, i liked the two islands BUT a second island will definitely add considerable cost so i'm holding back. my dh has been a doll and doesn't really set budgets on these things as he just wants me "to be happy." i LOVE being happy, but i'd like him happy and as unstressed as possible. when i mentioned the possibility of two islands to him he joking said, "costs me more!" but was he really joking? the architect went a little crazy on the square footage so the whole project is more than we planned. in my next life i'm going to have a lot more excess cash.

thanks rhome! yes, they're very similar! i'm wondering though: if i move the prep sink (24") to the center of the island across from the main sink wouldn't that be able to service both the prep/range area and the baking center? ...or maybe that might create some kind of problem with traffic? not sure about putting it on the side counter... i'm not feeling it. what's my problem?

malhgold: for some reason i'd like to keep the baking center central since i'd like to pull that out in a deep, mahogany stain (other cabs are white) along with the island. it would also be closer to the sink in the island... wouldn't it? i'm trying to picture it on the end and my concern is it will look out of place since it's a foot deeper than the cabs.
and i wouldn't put it between the fridge/freezer since there's not much counter there and that area will serve as a breakfast/prep station. it's getting a bit crowded for the space.

are we there yet? you can't possibly be sick of me yet. it's only day 2! how long should this take?

Part of the advantage of having the extra sink is having it in a location that isn't already 'covered' by a sink, so it might serve a couple purposes. I think if it was back to back with the main sink, it's almost a why-have-it situation.
My thoughts when placing the sink at the end of the side counter was that it could serve you as you bake, as well as a place for kiddos to wash hands, fill a pitcher of water to take to the dining table, etc...Another prep area handy to the fridge and freezer when you're hosting a big holiday dinner or something. That end counter could become a wet bar/beverage area?

Just for talking. This is two islands in the other orientation. I guess I think the clean up would be better on a side wall (less walking). I think the cook and bake can share a sink maybe... (is a pot filler a faucet?).

So, just to look at.

Rhome, I think the south wall has that stuff kicked out into a surround and is 22 feet without it. Could be wrong, hard to tell.

{{gwi:1970086}}

rhome410: right again. why have a prep sink at all as long as the main sink is directly behind? ...and i would love not to have to pop another hole in my marble top island. i'll have the cabinet guy do an elevation drawing with the add'l prep sink over on the counter, next to the baking armoire. thanks! omg... i think i'm settled on this. is it possible? that was relatively painless. THANKS everyone for all your help. don't worry, there will be plenty of tinkering that needs to be done. so rest up. i'll be back.

bmorepanic: you really want my dh to spend more $$$ don't you?! again, i would have loved to have two islands but it's not happening. good try though!

I'm not much on being able to help with your layout, but I wanted to comment on your cute kids and the great photo of them!!!

Are you getting rid of the island prep sink? I think you still need it. I just think in front of the main sink was not the right place for it.

Like Malhgold said, I didn't mean to get rid of the prep sink, just didn't feel the back-to-back position with the other sink would be at all helpful. The prep sink in the island by the stove is what makes the fridge location work.

thank you downsy, they look cute but they're CRAZY. 'nuff said!

and no, no... i'm not getting rid of the island prep sink! i'm keeping the one at the end near the range and ADDING another (3rd) sink over by the baking center, on the left side of the perimeter counter run.

three sinks in one kitchen. i think i can officially declare this a bit excessive. dh just shakes his head... sister will roll her eyes and mother-in-law will gasp. it's all good!

It will work. I am convinced this is a good idea, and I'm a practical, don't do it if it's excessive kind of girl. If your sister and MIL help you at all in the kitchen at big meals, they will see the benefits. If they don't help, they don't get an opinion! ;-D

I didn't mean to do that. I worked on the floorplan a while after malhgold posted about two islands and didn't see your response before posting it.

So, here is what I think - unvarnished.

I would want to have my back to the blank wall at the living room and look out through either window and the morning room while prepping and be able to pop out to greet people who wandered into the kitchen. So I would locate the prep space and a sink in an island that faced the outdoor porch off the morning room with seating between the island and the porch.

I think I would place the clean up zone against the porch wall so it wasn't quite as far away from the dining room and the morning room. I would store the dishes in or immediately next to the cleanup zone.

Refs are a quandary in that space because of its sheer size. I would be very tempted to close the opening on the living room wall and push the opening to the hall wall two or three feet away from the living room wall and park the ref and a food pantry there. I'm another who doesn't see the need for the frzr to be anyplace in particular, except that its probably your source of ice or if you freeze vodka.

Kids love refs and microwaves, so I might start a kids prep with a wave they could use (someday) in the center section that juts out by the hall and have their dishes, dry snacks and paper products there.

I wouldn't do the bake center inna cabinet because I would feel too constricted by its sides (like trying to mix in a small closet) and its doors would get in my way when open. (Altho it would do a splendid job of hiding the turbochef.)

I might do an under-counter appliance lift for the mixer. I could find enough space on the island to mount one. Eventho I think lifts are really good solutions, I might instead do a deeper counter (30") on one wall with self-storing lift doors on part that disguised a mixer and flour canisters and such like stuff on the countertop because I think it would be easier to keep clean, organized and accessible.

A good undercounter beverage ref is only two-thirds of the cost of your faucet:) Icemakers run $500 to $1500. If you entertain a lot, either can make sense.

Good luck with your build.

thanks bmorepanic. as always, all great suggestions/ideas, but i'm settled. time for me to move on. i do need to mention however: i had one of those appliance lifts in the old house. i stopped using it to actually work on and used it only to lift the mixer on to the counter so i could turn the machine on. i'm positive my mixer would have fallen right through that thing, it wobbled so much.
so many have suggested moving the turbo chef to the baking center but honestly, the TC would get far more use than the baking center. i just can't see it being so far away from the main prep area since i can see myself using it on a daily basis. and i love my baking cabinet! the doors won't get in the way at all as they will recess into the cabinet. and it will have lights. if i hate it, then live and learn. thanks again!