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phorbin

chipped marble during install

phorbin
12 years ago

I wanted my first post to be of my finished kitchen. I love this site and all the ideas it gave me. But i have a little set back. We got honed alabama white marble. it took 4 months to get it in. they needed a crane to get it in the house.

the fabricator sends a helper to drill the faucet hole on the island and.......

Comments (45)

  • breezygirl
    12 years ago

    My heart just sunk. Ugh. That's horrible. Alabama is so pretty, and hard to come by IIRC. I'm so sorry this happened to you! I know I'd want to scream if that happened to my Carrara that was just templated today.

    What's the next step? How are they proposing to proceed now that they, in the words of my 6 year old, wrecked it up?

  • babushka_cat
    12 years ago

    oh dear, i lived through this one myself, see links below.
    i am afraid to say you need to reject the job and have them get you a new counter. will cause a delay, but as my experince shows, you can insist and get it done right. first link outlines the issues, second one the results

    http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0813134026649.html

    http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg1020111625861.html

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  • MIssyV
    12 years ago

    oh no!! what a bummer! i agree, you are going to have to reject it, i would think it would be difficult to hide that with your faucet, and even so, it may not be good support for the faucet or even cause leaking issues.

    surely when the person in charge see's this, they will agree... surely!

  • gr8daygw
    12 years ago

    Oh dear, as hard as we try something always seems to goes awry. I bet the helper feels terrible but not as bad as you : / I found this site: www.marblelife.com they can repair anything and marble gets repaired all the time in restorations etc. Maybe there is a company like them in your area. I am hoping it can be repaired since getting a crane and waiting another 4 months seems too daunting to contemplate if that is what it would take to redo. I am wishing you all the best and so sorry this happened to you after waiting all this time!!! If it had to happen I guess at least it was on the island so you can use the rest of your kitchen. Good luck sweet one and hoping for the best for you.

  • jejvtr
    12 years ago

    phorbin

    So sorry - what a major bummer

    2 things bothered me besides the obvious
    a - did they miss their mark? Why is the faucet hole where a piece of wood is beneath?
    b - did they not protect your new lovely sink during the process?

    Best of luck w/remedy

  • babushka_cat
    12 years ago

    another thought is to look at the type of faucet you plan to use and see if any have a larger base ring that could cover the flaw. it may be too big but worth a try?

    while the faucet you are using looks like 1 hole, see the link below for the idea - see the rings on the bottom of each side of the deck mounted faucet. if you were to find one that had that type of thing and the diameter covered the flaw it would not be an issue.

    http://www.fixtureuniverse.com/two-handle-kitchen-faucets/rohl-a1459x-country-kitchen-deck-mounted-all-faucet_g309960.html?af=1593&cse=1593

  • allison0704
    12 years ago

    That is heartbreaking. :( What are they saying? I would be tempted to find faucet that would cover (let them buy the new and the one you can't use to make up for it).

    I don't live all that far from Sylacauga, AL (where AL marble is quarried). Have always loved it. My parents main level flooring and window sills throughout are AL White.

  • kitchendetective
    12 years ago

    Years ago, there was a kitchen featured in one of the design magazines that had white marble--Calacatta, I think--counter tops. The area behind the sink was built up with a second layer of marble. It looked like an old world detail, but was actually a disguise for the damage an installer had done to the original slab when drilling holes for faucets. Does anyone recall seeing that? It would have been in a commonly available design magazine, and I think it may have appeared in more than one magazine or kitchen compendium. I have always wondered about the technical aspects of adding extensions to elongate the under-counter sections of the faucets, etc., since it made the counter behind the sink very thick. No details were given. Where is your sink? I don't think this would work in an island application.

  • babushka_cat
    12 years ago

    yes, i recall that one. it was a house beautiful kitchen in SF - search under best kitchens. suzanne someone...

  • function_first
    12 years ago

    Maybe it's just me, but after that kind of a wait the last thing I'd want remembered about my kitchen is it was "the one where they covered the mess up with __________ (fill in: another piece of marble, epoxy, whatever)". I'd rather be known as that person who made the fabricator locate another slab and bring the *$&$#! crane back to her house to bring it in, even if the story included an "oh boy, was he ever ticked off about it." You don't deserve to be stuck with some remedy for this monstrosity. This is HIS bad. He needs to replace it.

  • phorbin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    thanks everyone for your sympathy and support. Big shout out to b cat for sharing your experience and good job with the links!!! and the outcome!!!!

    so for a little more detail. we are doing a renovation on a 1917 raised basement 4 corner craftsman house. trying to do a somewhat period renovation (cans were in the house when we got it). The kitchen island is like 110x68. It is a single slab. i had to get 2 more slabs for the perimeter, the bar, the hutch, and 2 fireplace hearths one of which is in the kitchen. every thing has a straight edge cept the bar and hutch have a OGee. The GC is looking for a replacement . the fab is trying to patch it.

    this happened on friday. the helper was the one who called me. he left before i arrived, and the GC met me there and talks to fab. as far as the wood they knew about it at time of instal and i told the helper when i let him in. (I couldn't watch him drill)

    on tuesday the fab finally comes out to patch it the fab suggest getting a big ring for the base of my faucet. the GC said no before i could. here is the faucet im using http://waterstoneco.com/p-annapolis-gantry.cfm
    that is the only option.

    kitchendetective my friend suggest doing a circle marble base with an ogee to cover the wreck up.

    these are some of my thoughts.

    as for as the marble it took 2 months to locate and 4 to get honed and shipped from canada to new orleans. i dont want to be negative but i dont like my chances to find a match. (been prayin) this stone is a big part of our budget. am i crazy to demand all new slabs so everything matches.

    even if they can find a match what should i do? finish the house? do the floors? move in. is rolling the cart with stone over the wood floors going to mess them up? got to lay plywood down so it doesn't mark the floor. b cat how did they get your old counters out? will my hand built cabs get messed up?

    replacement of the island (or everything if they cant find a match) is what i want to do. i think we will be in this house for life. do i stop work on the house till its resolved? or finish andmove in?

    part of me would accept the circle marble base if i got enough money back. what would be a fair amount? half the cost of the stone and instal? thoughts?

    thanks again everyone. will post a pic of the "patch job" when its done. and keep you up to date.

  • dianalo
    12 years ago

    I think that you can proceed with everything while you wait for your island to be taken care of. We went without counters on our island for 6 months. I put scrap large melamine shelves where the counters were missing and got by. It became normal after a while. We had to adjust to the new counter height once we had actual counters installed. I also got used to being able to take off a piece and wash it by the sink, lol.... It was nice not having crumbs drop through the gaps when the new counters were on. Some people here use plywood for long times because they put them in temporarily while they save for the permanent ones and end up liking the plywood in the meantime.

    OTOH - if they refund half the cost of the island piece and half the installation of that, I'd think that would be enticing. If they did build up a circular piece, esp an ogee, you will have more to clean, so keep that in mind. It might make the faucet a real star by putting on a pedestal, so it could be nice lemonade in the end....

    In any case, you will either get a "perfect" island in the end after waiting a bit or can save a significant amount of money and get a nice resolution sooner. I am not sure personally which I'd go with, but you should have a few days to decide.

  • NatalieChantal
    12 years ago

    I second dianolo's advice. Asking for everything to be redone is not realistic - they didn't damage everything, and they can't control matching issues, only offer to replace the slab they screwed up. If this issue is on your island, then the matching issue will be far less noticeable or it could even be more attractive to have one slab stand out more.
    If you would be happy with a circle base then that would speed everything up, BUT would it be a constant reminder of their screw-up? It would definitely be very noticeable and make your faucet look like it's supposed to be a superstar feature, besides adding to the cleaning, so make sure you are OK with that before accepting that solution, even if it would give you $$$ back.
    Personally I'd be thrilled that the GC is on the ball and ready to get you another island slab, and would go for that. Since its your forever home, even a six month delay won't matter much once everything is done to your satisfaction.

  • aa62579
    12 years ago

    Here is a link to the House Beautiful kitchen where the marble slab cracked.

    At least, I think this is the one you are talking about.

    Here is a link that might be useful: San Francisco Kitchen by Susan Dossetter and Andrew Skurman

  • phorbin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks for the link I looked but could not find it. They still need to drill the holes for the bar faucet and pot filler.

  • brickeyee
    12 years ago

    "They still need to drill the holes for the bar faucet and pot filler."

    Tell them to send someone that knows hot to use a coring bit.

    In granite if the bit is not kept vertical in the hole it just scrapes the paint off the bit badly, in marble it produces the kind of chip out you have (marble is much weaker than granite).

  • kitchendetective
    12 years ago

    Your kitchen is going to be absolutely wonderful. Hang in there. This will get resolved.

  • babushka_cat
    12 years ago

    phorbin -

    double check link, someone posted the picture for you. let us know what the end resolution turns out to be.

  • phorbin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    so after over 2 long weeks the contractor calls and says that the stone fab. finished with the patch. the stone still needs to be sealed. i pass by after work and took a few pics. the lighting was bad (thanks daylight savings). the wife has not seen it yet and i want to see it during the day. might post some more pics if they come out better.

    What u think GW??????





  • babushka_cat
    12 years ago

    i would personally have trouble accepting that as a solution. the patch looks very visible. i would only accept it with a huge discount on the whole job and even then be reluctant to do so. think about resale - if it bothers you, will it bother the future owner too?

    could they manufacture some kind of faux collar of the same type of metal and finish to mask it?

  • pam29011
    12 years ago

    I think I'd tell them to cut a piece in a circle & apply over that, and get a different faucet (the very tall faucet you have will probably look odd if it's raised even taller).

    I agree that the patch is clearly visible, especially in the second to last picture. The problem with a patch like that is that you won't have the same patina on the patched place as the rest of the stone. It's like touching up satin wall paint with the same color in a flat finish. It just doesn't look right.

    I would tell the GC to withhold payment to the stone guy until this is solved to your satisfaction, too. Once they have your money you lose a lot of leverage.

  • breezygirl
    12 years ago

    When I saw this thread pop up again, I was hoping you'd have a perfect resolution. I don't think you do. Someone with an untrained eye might not notice it right away, but it doesn't look right. I wouldn't accept that either. Sorry you're still dealing with this!

  • Circus Peanut
    12 years ago

    Oh, I'm so sorry. I doubt your wife is going to find that acceptable, either. It's just too visible and too big a spot, especially its location where food is being prepared and such a big variance in texture/shine will read as "gunk" to be wiped away. (I will be charitable, but honestly, that doesn't look like an absolutely A-1 job -- why didn't they put a grey swirl in the epoxy to at least match color-wise?)

    If you are intent on compromising, perhaps a faucet base plate in your finish (polished nickel?) can be found. Something like this, but round:

    Here is a link that might be useful: hansgrohe faucet plate

  • Circus Peanut
    12 years ago

    Escutcheons! That's what they're called. Here's a whole page of them. I wonder if even a large one could cover the entire chip.

    (Not that I'm recommending this option necessarily; seems to me you are owed a new countertop if you choose.)

    Here is a link that might be useful: lots o' round plumbing escutcheons

  • babushka_cat
    12 years ago

    bump

  • angie_diy
    12 years ago

    I want to think the repair is good enough.... but I cannot. Sorry.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago

    Wow. In the interests of clarity, I'm not going to beat around the bush. That looks absolutely terrible.

  • PeterH2
    12 years ago

    That "repair" is completely unacceptable.

  • singingmicki
    12 years ago

    I don't think it looks good. I wouldn't accept that fix! So sorry for you because I'm sure you were hoping for a great fix! Take a picture in daylight, for sure.

  • marquest
    12 years ago

    I am going to be your voice of reason....

    It is hard to tell from the picture and it does not look like it was patched to me. I bet if you had not told anyone here and you posted a pic of that spot up close everyone would say your counter is beautiful. Because of the marble design they would have thought it was part of the stone.

    If that is what you are going to focus on because you know it is there and it bothers you.... I would do everything to get a new stone regardless of the wait or all the inconvenience it may cause.

    But.....If you get a good enough discount would not be my main concern I would want a long guarantee that if there is any structrual issues later that they will be responsible to replace. I would want at least a 5 year period that I could call them back.

    I am like that though I do not focus on the little boo boos. They add character and it is a good story to tell your friends.

    Just my opinon.

  • PeterH2
    12 years ago

    "I am going to be your voice of reason"

    Wow - you certainly have a big opinion of yourself (or a very small opinion of the rest of us).

  • marcolo
    12 years ago

    I am going to be your voice of reason....

    More like your voice of Helen Keller.

  • angie_diy
    12 years ago

    Hey! I just noticed something. I disagree with Marquest, but he or she made me go back to look at the original pictures. In the "before" picture, there is no dark material in the marble at the border of the chipped hole.

    In the picture after, uhhh, "repair," the border between the marble and the epoxy is dark.

    What happened? Could it be just surface discoloration of the marble around the chip? Perhaps cleaning this part or etching it could lessen the contrast that makes the repair stand out.

  • dseng
    12 years ago

    I think it looks fine. The big test for me would be how it feels - if smooth and undetectable, I'd accept it. If not, then I wouldn't. I know you're trying to balance perfection with practicality. We all sweat every single little detail - sometimes obsessively. And it works. All the details come together to make a grand whole. But - after all the dust has settled, the thinset dried, and the marble has had the sourdough starter bubble over and make a huge mess overnight - will this one little detail be the death knell for your kitchen happiness or an anecdote you'll relate, not to everyone, but at least to your close friends over for a visit or to share dinner?

  • marquest
    12 years ago

    Sorry if anyone felt insulted. I gave an opinion just as other had. As dseng said don;t sweat the small stuff....I stand by my thought. It is not the end of the world.

    I was offering another perspective.....
    -The entire look if another counter is ordered and all the trouble that will follow for a small area that is not noticeable by a guest if that is who you are trying to impress will not focus on if you do not point it out.
    -That if it does not cause any function of the kitchen it is acceptable.
    -Get a guarantee that if there is a structural problem later it can be fixed.

    Anyone I invite into my home I would hope would not be so critical that they would be taking a magnifying glass to see that a 1"-2" area on my counter does not perfectly match many sq ft of a beautiful counter. If they did I would not care what their opinion is they are not your friend.

    Again sorry if anyone felt insulted it was not my intention. I was trying to offer the posters another opinion of how I saw the small area.

    But as a side note Helen Keller was a great woman. I take that as a compliment. She learned to see beyond sight. LOL

  • NicoleIMG
    12 years ago

    I agree with Marquest. I think the patch work looks great! It does look like the marking are part of the marble. I work for a marble fabricator so I see this stuff all the time. Marquest is also right that no one is going to come into your kitchen with a magnifying glass.

    In my opinion, the best solution is to accept the repair work they did and ask for a discount. This is indeed their mess up, though definitely unintentional. However, you shouldn't have to accept a patch work with no discount because it is definitely not your fault. I would say to demand a new slab if the patch work was not done nicely, but since it was you should accept it. To get another slab would take months. Ask yourself if it is worth it. Ultimately it is your decision. If you believe the work looks good, accept it. If you don't like it, then wait for the new slab. You don't want to regret your decision. So think it through!

  • macybaby
    12 years ago

    I agree that if you posted it without ever saying what had happened, you would get a bunch of "it looks wonderful" because no one would want to rain our your parade.

    Most people will never notice. My sister cut the doors of an upper cabinet in half width wise, shortened them and glued them back together. About a year later I saw her kitchen for the first time (I did not know she'd done this) I asked her why she had not just ordered new doors?

    She was not offended at all, and laughed - she said in all that time, I'm the only one that ever noticed! And that was why she had not replaced them, she figured (correctly) that the vast majority of people would never notice.

    I think I'd be a horrid person for contractors. Because I do so much DIY, when I hire someone, I expect them to do a much better job than I could. If I hired someone to install a marble counter, it would be specifically so I didn't end up with a chip and patch job.

  • sabjimata
    12 years ago

    Hi! I don't get to post on here much anymore because of my baby so please know that I am using my precious "me" time to add my tiny contribution :)

    I definitely think the patch job looks GOOD and agree with the other commenters who weighed in in favor of it.

    And do note that even before you received your slabs, whatever little pits and pocks were epoxied. I think we all strive for perfection with our remodels but the little upsets along the way is what really adds character to the project. Kind of wabi sabi.

    Just reframe the story as such: tell your friends what happened and show them what an *excellent* job the fabricator did in repairing it. They will be amazed!

    The marble is gorgeous. Your faucet is a masterpiece. An imperfection here or there really just adds pizazz!

  • clg7067
    12 years ago

    I thought I posted already, but I think it looks good. And I'll bet nobody besides yourself is ever going to notice there was a patch.

  • Circus Peanut
    12 years ago

    Angie DIY, I'm actually betting that the discoloration around the patch is the result of epoxy resins permanently staining the marble. If it were deliberately applied color, it would be nicely swirled throughout the patch.

    As another picky DIYer who sets perhaps unrealistic goals for contractors (i.e., "better than I could do"), this just doesn't seem like very good handiwork to me - the discolored stained bit just serves to highlight the round edges of the flat white patch itself, and it doesn't look to me like it matches the color or directionality of the marble veins very well.

    Plus, that epoxy stain might change color and yellow over time, which would be icky.

  • Jodi_SoCal
    12 years ago

    Either find the nicest escutcheon money can buy (that you like of course) or have the contractor make one out of matching marble. And then ask for a discount on the entire job. I wouldn't live with the repair job as is. It looks like a water stain or simply a bad fix for a large chip (which is exactly what it is).

  • califkitchen
    12 years ago

    Firstly, I want to say that I think the patch looks great. I really don't think anyone would ever notice.

    Secondly, I want to comment about trying to achieve "perfection". I'll probably get blasted for saying this...but I just want to offer another perspective. I think it is easy to want to achieve perfection when you are spending other people's money to do so. But even the best contractor makes mistakes and can't achieve perfection. I don't think it is fair to say to any contractor that anything less than perfection on everything is unacceptable and to expect him/her to spend her time and money to get everything that way. If your fabricator has to go out and buy you a whole new slab, not only is he unlikely to make money or your job, it may end up costing him. He is trying to earn a living.....just like we all are. He tried to fix it - and I think it looks great and a lot of people would agree. If you don't think you can live with it, then I think you need to be prepared to put more money in it to make it something you can live with. I'm not saying that you need to purchase a whole new slab - but I think you need to find a way for everyone to feel like they got what they want and isn't being gorged.

    We our just about finished with our kitchen remodel. There are things that aren't perfect, and most of them I can't even remember when I look at my beautiful kitchen. That said, when had the granite installed, there was an "error" in templating which caused there to be no overhang on one cabinet run and 1 1/2" on the other cabinet run. The fabricator realized he made a mistake. His solution was to move the cabinet run with no overhang forward about 3/4" and he was going to "fill" the piece against the backsplash with a scrap from my granite. He was pretty certain that the fill would look almost seamless. When he moved the granite forward, I realized that no matter how the "fill" would look, I couldn't live with 3/4" overhang and would always notice it. The GC, fabricator and I got together and agreed to split the cost of purchasing and fabricating a new piece of granite. It cost us each about $500. While the fix he made was "good", and many people might have been happy with it. I wasn't. But I don't think it was fair for me to want to achieve perfection unless I was willing to put some skin in the game.

  • pam29011
    12 years ago

    I can understand not wanting to gouge the contractor who did the work, but their price for a slab includes a fair bit of markup. I think the most I would concede in this case is to see what they paid for the slab and help pay for the next one - but the costs to fabricate it should be 100% on them.

    IOW - if the slab cost $500 & they charged $1000 for it (including the fabrication) then I'd offer to split the cost of a new slab with them (pay $250 of the $500). Will they make money on the deal? No, but they'll probably break even and that's about as good as they should expect when they damaged expensive material.

    If they'd dropped the slab in their warehouse they would be out 100% of the cost of a new one, so I think this is more than fair.

    There's a difference between small errors and damage, and this is damage in a pretty important area. The faucet will see lots of years of use & water exposure ... it's not like it's a bad seam in a place no one will see.

  • remodelfla
    12 years ago

    I think the idea of an escutcheon (be it a marble piece or a faucet faceplate) is brilliant. Your marble is gorgeous and your finished kitchen will be too.