Did you add windows on each side of your range? Where is your food storage?

Do you currently eat all your meals at a counter side by side? Personally, for family meals, especially dinner I wouldn't want to eat at an island. I prefer to sit down around a table where everyone can see each other and carry on a conversation. Have you considered doing a table in place of a second island? You certainly have the room.

As far as the type of fridge, every family's needs are different and preferences vary. My only suggestion is to go and look at both types of fridges you are considering and "kick the tires."

I can't wait to see what kind of flooring, countertops, backsplash and fixtures you choose!

Yes there will be tall windows on each side of the range

We were thinking about a counter height (36") island where we could face each other and seat 5. One on each end and three in a row. Not sure if this will work

Thanks for the thoughts

Ok, so you're planning an overhang on 3 sides of the island so that people can sit on the ends also? Do you have enough clearance to the left and right of the island?

What will you be storing in the 2 wall cabinets to the left and right of the range? I would suggest your spices and oil go in a drawer or pullout closer to the range so that you don't have to walk to them. I think it would look nice to have those wall cabinets go all the way down to the counter since you have such a long expanse of countertop there.

The fridge seems really far from the cooktop, but that might not be a problem if the cooks gather all the ingredients beforehand.

Do you use your microwave when you're cooking? Many people like to have them close to the range for melting butter, defrosting meat, etc. Others use them solely for heating leftovers, so it's nice to have it near the fridge.

Have you chosen a spot for your coffeemaker and toaster? Nice to have the coffeemaker near a sink for filling with water.

Are those beams going to be exposed? Love that!

i thnk we will have about 3 feet on each side of the island which i hope will be enough.

you are right, we plan on having pull out drawers on each side of the range for things such as spices, oils, etc

the fridge placement also concerned us a little but my wife tends to gather stuff from the fridge and place them in the prep area which in this case will be the island

we use the mw mainly for popcorn, etc

don't drink much coffee, usually indian teas which we have to make fresh. we were hoping to have an appliance garage for the toaster, etc. just not sure where. any ideas?

drjay, I would recommend at least 48" on each side if people will be sitting there. If it were an occasional guest it might be different, but you said you'll be eating all your meals there and I can envision people trying to squeeze past to get to the fridge or the sink.

We store our bread near the fridge so that's where my toaster lives. It's also near the eating area, which is convenient.

Would it make sense to put one here?

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If you're worried about it messing up your nice symmetry, I've seen appliance garages that are are recessed into the wall, making them look built-in. Or if you prefer cabinetry, you could nudge your fridge down to the left a little to maintain symmetry.

I would strongly prefer a table to eat family meals. So much more comfortable, cozy, and conducive to conversation, in my opinion. Like the difference between sitting in a booth or at a table in a restaurant compared to sitting at the counter. A table can be a place to linger together, where an island or bar seems more of a hurried pace and 'colder'. Maybe that's just a personal perception.

I agree that the fridge is a bit far, but doable. If you want to keep symmetry, you could get a panel front fridge and scoot it toward the stove end and do a matching cabinet at the far end?

I still don't think you'll want equally sized fridge and freezer in the kitchen when you have an additional freezer elsewhere...unless maybe you have an additional fridge elsewhere, too.

I also still have the concern I expressed last time about adequate dish storage handy to the dishwasher.

First, your kitchen looks very nice...it has nice symmetry and offers quite a bit of workspace. I'm glad you didn't try to put seating on the first island, it keeps the aisle b/w the islands open and allows work to be done on either side of the first island as well as on the kitchen side of the second island. The prep sink will definitely help w/allowing several people to prep/cook/cleanup at the same time.

However.....

• The islands look like they're 8' across...is that accurate? And you mentioned earlier that your aisle widths are 36".

  The recommended aisle width without seating is 42" (3-1/2')...3' is doable if there's no traffic and definitely no seating! As Erika has said, you really should have at least 48" for seating...and that's only b/c there are no appliances or real workspaces around the ends of that second island. If there were, then I'd say you need at least 60" for seating on the aisles. I wouldn't want to be one of the 3 people on the long side and need to get into the kitchen for a refill of milk or to get a condiment or anything else from the kitchen...it would not be easy getting around those people on the short sides. (I guess the two on the short sides are going to have to be the "gophers"!)

  Unfortunately, it's not as easy as shortening the island as you probably need those 8' for seating for 5...6' for the 3 on the long side and then an additional 15" for the people on each side...so 30"...that means 8-1/2 feet...but you can probably do 8'. Is this new build? Is it possible to move the outside wall out another 2 feet so you can have 4' aisles on each side of the aisle? Or, what about a curved seating surface so you don't need quite so much horizontal space? A curve would also give it more of a table feeling and since you plan to eat the majority of your meals there it might be nice...more conducive to conversation as well. I don't know if you could curve it enough to eliminate 2' of island though.

I understand your need for symmetry, but your kitchen will require a lot of walking unless you are very efficient at getting everything gathered at once.
As to dish & flatware storage...you could store them in the first island on the side w/the second island or across the aisle in the second island. Glasses, etc. could be in upper cabinets on the left side of the sink. I probably wouldn't store dishes, etc. to the right of the sink since when the DW is open the aisle is going to be completely blocked, making it difficult to get to the other side of the DW when it's open.
Food storage....where will that be? In the cabinets surrounding the refrigerator? Or, do you have a pantry elsewhere? If you have no pantry, then storing food here would fit w/the refrigerator since it would be the "storage" zone...for food. This location would also make it easy to get things out of both the refrigerator & cabinets & put on one of the islands for prepping all at one time.
As to an appliance...

What buehl said.

36" is the minimum width of a walkway (no operating cabinets face the aisle). A working aisle is 42" to 48" (single cook minimum, multiple cook minimum). All of your aisles are working aisles and should use the multiple cook size -- unless you plan on your kids never cooking.

Chair/stool space minimum starts at about 32". That's the minimum it takes to "become seated" in different size stools. Another person can't get by the seated person at this clearance. At 36", you start to get a squish by the seated person. At 44", another small person can walk behind a seated diner.

As buehl said, it's not quite enough for a working aisle. Your body needs to fit behind the seated person, be able to fully open the cabinet doors or drawers and, hopefully, not hit the seated person in the head when you take that service piece out.

Thanks for all of the feedback.

I think that it will be too tight on each side of the island for traffic. Unfortunately, we cannot move walls as now as the house has been framed. What about a long island where 3 people can face the oter 3 people? This would for a "T" shape when combined with the wide prep island.

Or, we could just ditch the second island for a table, a booth, or somethig similar. I agree with youguys in that a table where everyone sits facing each other is the way to go.

There is a pantry on the right hand side of the range which is not pictured and it will be 10 x 5 feet which is a good size.

As far as the small appliances, I like the idea of hiding them in a cabinet and I think one of the tall cabinets on each side of the range would work nicely, probably on the side where the fridge is. Like I said before, this is mainly for a toaster and perhaps a blender.

I too am worried about appliances blocking walkways. I.e. the dishwasher blocking the path when open. Maybe we would be better off placing a dishwasher drawers?

We plan on putting upper cabinets on the side of the sink for dishes, glasses, etc.

Just so you know on the side of the sink where the open bar is located, is where our casual dining room is. This will be about 16 x 18 feet and of course we could just eat there, but we like the thought of eating quick and casual meals in the kitchen since we think we have the space. Also, on the side of the more peripheral island is where the family room will be.

It is funny, we have gone back and forth with this layout with our builder, architecht, and designer and none of them have been as helpful as you guys!

Thanks again

I think having a table instead of that second island is a great idea. Much more comfortable if you have little ones too.

Sounds like your pantry will be very roomy. How nice!

I see one upper cabinet to the right of your sink which may be enough for glasses but you'll need more room for plates and bowls. They can go in a drawer in your island. Now would be a good time for you to decide what's going in every single drawer and cabinet, if you haven't already done so.

Your dishwasher can stay where it is, you may just need to shorten your island a little so that you have a wide enough aisle. And how much space do you have between your range and your island?

I'm very surprised your designer was going to let you have a 36" aisle behind island seating.

There's no reason anyone should ever feel cramped in such a lovely big space as you have.

thanks for the great pointers

Tables are more comfy for elderly too.

Since the house is framed up, and if you can get in there, try mocking up your kitchen with cardboard boxes and the appropriate clearances. Try to "cook" a typical meal and pretend someone (or actually have others) try to get a snack or drink, help out, sit at the island. If the isles are too narrow you can move or cut the boxes down until it's comfortable. It may take a little time, but you will really get a feel for how your kitchen will work.

great idea. i think we will try doing just that

Another, question.

Would we be better off going with one giant island where at the end it is configured like a table where 2 people can sit on each of the three sides? How large could that island be? I was thinking 6'6" wide by 10'/ I checked my exact plans and I think that would work. It would also give us more clearance on each side so that people could get to the sink and fridge more easily.

Thanks for any input

Interesting idea, but...

1) you might have trouble getting countertop material in a piece large enough to fit it

2) it divides your kitchen in a big way, prohibiting crossing the room to the other side, meaning people doing laps around the island and probably running into each other/crossing paths

3) Yikes! Who's going to reach the center to wash it? :-)

#2 being most important, of course.

But, perhaps you could consider a "T" shape. Maybe try for five or seven seats? But more like 60 x 42" for 5 or 78" x 42" for 7. It makes the entire island length into something a bit less (more like 7 to 8.5 feet instead of ten) and would have two different counter heights and you'd be able to use multiple countertop pieces.

You might want to consider a half circle or a smooth curve on an island section to fit more diners in less space.

The last though is an actual table pushed up against the island that has one of those built-in leaves. So it's normally 3 or 4 seats, but could be pulled out and have the leaf extended for 6.

An aside to rhome, the problem is there isn't enough room to have a seperate table in the manner of your favorite kitchen. This room is about three feet too short because the table space would have two walk ways (on the outside edge as well as the inside edge facing the other island).

I don't know how much room there is on the far side of the outside island... I think there was a family room that way so was thinking the table could push in that direction? I wasn't thinking of having seating at the ends, but I guess with 5 it would be necessary. I completely agree that there is NOT room for seating on 3 sides of what is drawn.

The table could be long enough to fit 3 on one side and 2 or 3 facing...with no need for end chairs.

And ...did I mention a favorite kitchen? I'm not even sure I have one. My mind is only halfway here today I guess. ;-)

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So which is better or at least more desirable and functional??

For this kitchen, mamadadapaige?

You can do the giant island if you want. People say that the 10 feet is a bit long to walk around. I've never spent any time in a kitchen with an island that big, so I wouldn't know.

Table by skining off some inches.

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OOH - I like that bmorepanic. I like that a lot. If we can get chairs/stools that tuck under the table then there should be plenty of space to walk around.

Thanks!

The giant island is a barrier island and doesn't offer room enough for seating...and just too wide to clean. It would look HUGE. My opinion. (Think of containers of things left too long in the fridge, assuming we're not the only ones that happens to... You need to get them to the cleanup sink...I'd rather walk in a straight line to the sink instead of carrying an armload of these things clear around the 'continent' or placing the items on the island, then walking around to retrieve them --quite a reach with 6 1/2 ft of counter width/depth-- and finally transfer them to the sink.)

The T is better, but still impedes traffic from getting back and forth across the room. I like the table separated for that reason, and because I think it would be more pleasant for family meals...Again, one woman's opinion, since I'm biased and just not into counter meals.

If you are deciding between the table T'd into the island or separate, it should be easy to build the kitchen, then decide exact table location later...and move it around as it suits you. This option keeps you from being stuck with something you won't like.

I (we) agree. I think that is what we will do. Thanks again to all esp rhome410 and bmorepanic.

It sounds like you have already made a decision about the changes you want to make. Your original plan is very similar to one in the finished kitchen blog. It would be a great visual for you if you haven't already seen it.

Here is a link that might be useful: momto4kids kitchen

Thanks for the link to momto4kids' kitchen. It is beautiful.

True it is very similar to what we had envisioned. Unfortunately, our space is not as large as hers. Not that I am complaining, but our space is roughly 17 x 19 feet which is sizeable but I thought our kitchen would be closer to 20 x 20. Hers must be like 25 x 30. In fact, does anybody know how large her kitchen is?

If we had that space, then we would definitely stick to our original 2 island design.