Blessed because you were looking at the function, not the high end appliances.

I didn't look at the link yet. But I can answer, you are totally cursed.

We are all terribly spolied and finicky.

On the other hand, althought its like telling a bride rain is lucky, you are fortunate.

Look at your comments. You did not lament that it was Tuscan sponge painted, or that the subway tiles were curved machine edges instead of flat, or that they had "Kiss the Chef" stencilled over the doorway.

Your comments are about function and layout. Another buyer wont notice, until they live there, and then they will not be able to articulate why the kitchen is a pain to work in, other than in 4 letter words.

Consider yourself lucky. You will end up with a nice kitchen one way or another. You will know a dud quicker than by making the mistake of buying it and then needing to re-do a recently done kitchen. You will either find an acceptable one or will get an ugly one and renovate. If you find one almost good enough, you will already be armed with how to tweak it to its best potential....

Ditto -- And you may be just the buyer for some place that has an outdated this or that most buyers won't consider and you will know how to easily and affordably do the update and getthe honey of a deal.

I recently cooked in a kitchen that had its ovens directly across a 30 inch aisle from the cooktop. You are blessed to know better.

(And the kitchen in question had NO PLACE to store pots and pans near the cooktop!)

Does everyone else now mentally evaluate the layout of every kitchen they enter? sigh....

Angie_DIY said "Does everyone else now mentally evaluate the layout of every kitchen they enter? sigh.... "

Being TKO means you go above and beyond in evaluating kitchens: every kitchen in a commercial (there was a whole thread on this), in a movie (eg The One True Kitchen), in a magazine ad, online of course (does anyone else admit to searching the forum for "finished" only to find annoying questions on this or that cabinet finish instead of pics of Finished Kitchens? and looking just for threads that Boxerpupus has responded to??), and as soon as I can remember to do so I'm going to look up the Breaking Bad kitchen that SandyPonder mentioned since I used to live in ABQ. Not that I care a whit about the *show* but I want to see that kitchen!

ok, promise to reduce coffee consumption...

cheers

I'm afraid I think you may be more cursed than enlightened. Anybody who cooks develops ideas of what works and what is and is not wanted. I don't see that knowing an "approved" range of inches between counters adds much and can certainly take away.

As can immersing oneself in the attitudes of a large number of people with both space and budget to get everything they think they want. Discussion here often reminds me of out-of-control weddings, people in both too often engaged in spending sprees of a lifetime and determined to regard it all as completely necessary and appropriate.

My counters were planned 34" apart--by me. I don't know how 30" would work for me, although I'm pretty sure I'd prefer it over 48". In your place I'd be play cooking in that kitchen until I answered that question for myself. I've always regretted the influence of so-called standards that are actually good choices only for some people and in some situations and just plain wrong for many, many, many others.

An oven directly opposite the stove wouldn't bother me at all. There's one main cook and one occasional assistant in our kitchen, and it just wouldn't be an issue. Far better across the aisle than front of my knees while I work at the stove. Unless I have to stand in front of it to prep? (BTW, how DOES one use an oven under the stove without inconveniencing the person at the stove?)

Using this forum is great when it helps us get what works well for us and disastrous when it inadvertently keeps us from what would have been good choices or closes our minds to other, viable options. If you have managed to curse yourself, time to remove it? Good luck finding something you can love.

Wise words, rosie. I've built once and renovated several times, so a less than perfect layout would not stop me if all else suits. However, one needs to realistically assess what works best for the way you live, not conform to rules.
If your preferences exceed your funds, then figure out how to approximate as best you can within a sane budget. Break the curse, and you'll be far happier as your world becomes more expansive.

I have to agree with Rosie. Some here on the KW have been insistent that their way (e.g. You MUST have 48" aisles) is the only way. I also designed my kitchen with 34"-36" aisles - for ME! I, too, would hate to have to work across 48"-60" aisles. You can see how some of the new people who are tentatively posting their layouts are straining to the point of ridiculousless to get that "ideal" 48" aisle. Heaven forfend if only a 42" aisle would fit! They would not get the approval of those purists on the KW! The guidelines are just that - suggestions, recommendations. They are not written in stone, to be slavishly followed by everyone at all times.

Rant done!

As to the original poster, the kitchen does not look unworkable. The rest of of the house seems to have a lot going for it. Living with the kitchen would teach you what works and what needs tweaking.

Before I moved into this house over 10 years ago I had a very tiny 10x10 eat-in kitchen. I managed in that kitchen for over 27 years, producing many a good meal there. In total, I had maybe 4 feet of counterspace. The new house had a lovely big kitchen with a peninsula - thought I died and went to heaven. I grew to dislike the peninsula in THIS kitchen, because, although I had thought the kitchen was "large", in reality the kitchen area was only 12x11.3. The 7 foot peninsula was a constant intrusion into the space- preventing easy access into the adjacent eating area. Last year I finally ripped out the peninsula and put in an island- yes, an island in a kitchen which is only 11.3 feet wide! And you know what? It works and works well. Everyone who has come into the space and used the space loves working in it.

The moral of the story is that everyone is free to read the guidelines, and interpret them to fit their needs, their space, and their budget.

Helene

You're blessed! People get 'lucky' by choosing the high end appliances that they think will go over well for resale. You can't get lucky on layout items that only TKO obsessed people know, but having the right appliances will atleast give you the framework to get started (and cut back on the re-do budget some). I spend TONS of time in my kitchen and I'm not sure I could ever LOVE another kitchen that I didn't design, but that being said, it is possible to learn to love another kitchen. There is a reason everyone recommends living with it before demolishing it. Surprises happen and you might learn something new that you never knew before :)

but, Rosie, I think you're TKO in the same way as NCAmy: you realize that the kitchen layout in question *would* work for you (for the reasons you outlined above) and NCAmy realized that the layout would *not* work for her (for the reasons she laid out above), and neither of you *have* to have the kitchen justbecause of the swoony red knobs of the Wolf . IMHO that's the real TKO "enlightenment": understanding what works and doesn't work for *you* in a kitchen. The people who are cursed are the ones who put in a trendy (dangerous word!) kitchen just because it's what "people are doing" without regard to what works for them. But then using words like "cursed" and "enlightment" in re kitchens does have to be taken with a large dose of salt.

cheers

Start looking at homes with unrenovated kitchens. That way you won't be as tempted to pick them apart because you'll soon be ripping them apart. And you get the fun (!?) of another kitchen redo.

It's really good that your alarm bells are ringing. It's sad that people deliberately choose options that severely limit the functionality of a kitchen, and often do not comply with national building codes. Ignorance of those codes is a poor excuse, as the only way that some of these items would pass inspection would be if no inspection was performed. Deliberate non compliance, though, that's worse. If any kitchen I walked into had 32" aisles, I'd have to ask to see the permits that were pulled to renovate it---and anything else. I'd want to know what else was skimped on and/or not up to code. And I'd probably be correct that something somewhere else was halfass done by an incomptetent DIYer or contractor. And it would cost the previous owner. Big time. If the city got involved, they could require that the reno be torn out to the studs because it wasn't inspected. That could be good news for you as a buyer, because it translates into leverage for a lot of $$$ off, but frankly, it would just be a sign to me to move on to some other home.

You are blessed because you noticed it would be nearly impossible to open the oven door and remove anything without risking back injury or burns because you have to stand to the side or have the door in your way. Minimums are not arbitrary and are based on detailed testing.

It might be better to find a house you love with a kitchen space that you won't feel bad about changing and has potential, then find a way to get what you want within your budget.

I have found that houses that have one "what were they thinking?" feature, usually have several more. If someone used common sense and good judgement, it shows throughout the house. Others should stop and think before they do things, like GWers do, but don't.
We have bought 2 houses and in both, we had may "WWTT?" moments. Sometimes it is something cosmetic, sometimes something functional, and often, sadly, it is a contractor of some sort pointing out a defect or poorly handled situation....
The really sad thing is we are hearing that now about things our ex-gc installed here and how poorly handled they were. Since we plan to stay here long term, I don't think about buying another house anytime soon, but if the time ever comes, you had better believe that I will look for even more things that I want because I do not want another large reno ever again. I will mentally check out the kitchen for its function much more than in the past. If one wants to go through renovating, it won't matter so much when buying. I do not want to re-do anywhere near this scale ever again. No matter how good a bargain is or how we could improve on it, I want to buy someone else's well thought out kitchen. It may be the needle in the haystack, but I won't settle for poorly laid out and carelessly done ever again.

I think realizing something wouldn't work for you rather than being blown away or blinded by finishes or appliance quality is a blessing, not a curse.

Some people would walk in that house and say "Wolf--check, Monogram, check" and not pay attention to see if they liked the layout. The 30" may be fine for some people, I am not even addressing that.

Some people would be blown away by a glass backsplash and not even know that the appliances in the kitchen they were looking at had the worst repair records on the market.

I had a client who went so far to tell me that she liked a certain cabinet in an inspiration photo or kitchen design center --because she liked the NAME of the FINISH on the cabinets. It turned out she didn't really like the cabinets at all once she realized the name had nothing to do with it.

Education is never a curse. It is sometimes a PITA, but it is not a negative thing to have.

Definitely blessed, but if you spend some more time being TKO you'll also look at every d***ed kitchen thinking of how you can bribe Charon and pull the offender back into the living world of possibility.

It's not about the horror of what is, but how much it would take to make it all better. It's hard to tell from the RE pictures... How hard would it be to remove the peninsula, move the cooktop, add ventilation and use the peninsula parts to mend the change? That is, make it functional, being that it's an otherwise charming house, until you can rip out the whole thing and do it up right? Maybe deduct the amount you think it would take to be livable from your offer. If you love the house otherwise, it might be worth it. Maybe they need to sell too. :)

Palimpsest--I'm rolling!! That one about the names is even better than the one about not being able to use a pattern for a red jacket on blue fabric. :D

I just measured my regular, GE oven door open. It is 21 inches deep. That gives you 9 inches to stand to take anything out of your oven.

I do understand what people are saying that sometimes GW can be a little holier-than-thou and expect a skating rink worth of flooring around each doorway and passage. But single-wide trailers have more clearance for their ovens than 9 inches.

Also: No ventilation. Until this remodel, I had a cruddy hood that didn't work well. When I took my seldom used dishes from my top shelf to pack them up, there was a yellowish greasy film on them. Yuck.

My conclusion is that yes, Ncamy, you are blessed and no, your standards are not too high.

"Blessed because you were looking at the function, not the high end appliances."

Sometimes the "high end appliances" are what is required to get the function you want.

Try doing wok cooking on an undersize burner and you will know why it never comes out like the restaurant.

I didn't mean that high end appliances are a bad thing, but high end appliances should not blind you to the fact they are arranged in a layout that doesn't work for you.

I don't completely agree that a good cook or even a chef (and I know several--I live with one) need the same thing at home than they have at work, but that's a different thread.

I really do like the house, but DH is so turned off by the kitchen that he can't seem to see past it. So I did a quick redraw to show him how it maybe could be reconfigured. We would lose the peninsula and the booth (though it is lovely) closing it in to make a walk in pantry (which would compensate for the loss of the storage in the peninsula. I think I did manage to show him that we could make something functional out of it. But of course the sellers will have to lower the price on it so that we can make these changes. ;-) Then there's the soapstone counters that I want for me...

I agree that it might be preferable to find a house that simply needs the kitchen to be renovated. The problem we are finding with that though is that if the kitchen needs work so does the rest of the house. And we're talking houses that are between 70 and 100 years old.

It is a curse--but if you have enough energy and insights that you are considering doing renovations, at least you can look at various houses more objectively than some people. For example,some people would turn up their noses at any house without granite kitchen counters, not realizing the layout features you can recognize. Same for ugly carpet and paint.

In my area is is common, as I am sure it is elsewhere, for a house to go on the market with fresh taupe paint in every room, new hardwoods or laminate floors and some granite counters, and now the price is jacked up and the rooms and layouts are still stupid. But it has that clean "buyer appeal". Whereas you may be able to open your search to homes that have great kitchen configurations and only need the orange formica replaced (well, not that simple, but you get the point) or have great room dimensions and windows and traffic flow but need sprucing up.

So, you know, location, location and bones, bones.