posting floorplan. trying to get a lot into a small-ish space

12 years ago

My apologies for the lousy picture. my scanner isn't working - had to take a pic with my iphone which doesn't have a flash.

We bought our new house knowing we'd have to update the 1950's kitchen. We sort of assumed we'd remove the chimney that you see behind the kitchen in what has functioned as a laundry and utility room. After living here for a while we sort of like having the laundry/utility here so are trying to make the space work without going to so much effort and expense of removing the chimney.

We are willing to relocate the existing door and window. The plan attached shows my idea for the new locations.

I am sort of hooked on the idea of the 36" Capital Culianaire cooktop with griddle. We had a griddle in the old house and miss it so much. I am thinking of an all fridge column in the kitchen and keeping an all freezer column in the utility room. I don't use a freezer much. I am thinking of the Stages 45" sink by Kohler. Figuring the 33" base part will fit in the sink base and the drain board can be notched into the magic corner cabinet.

Any ideas on how to improve this. Will post seperately about the butler's pantry. It is very easy on the sink side and very complicated opposite the sink side as the basement stairwell is under here and the bulkhead for the stairs encroaches into the butler's pantry cabinetry in a really weird way. more on that later.

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Comments (14)

georgethedog
Original Author
12 years ago
I wanted to post some pictures of the existing (VERY old fashioned) kitchen. Ceiling height is over 9'. Kitchen space is approximately 13'5" x 13'3". Utility room not included in that dimension (nor butler's pantry).

Starting with the first picture of the radiator where I am seeing the new cooktop:

going around the room to the sink and corner (absolutely LOVE the undercounter tv left by the previous home owners!)

here is the cooktop and wall ovens. i would like to have a fridge and wall ovens. currently the fridge is in the utility room next to the washer and dryer. not at all convenient.

and finally here is a pic of the sight line into the utility room. i would like to relocate the w/d to the other side of the chimney. there is just enough room there and then it will muffle the noise that much better and also keep it out of sight.

the gardens at the house are beautiful. I would like a much better window over the sink in order that i can actually see them!
NewSouthernBelle
12 years ago
georgethedog - the gardens outside look beautiful and I can see why you would want to be able to see that from the kitchen. The photo of your layout idea is just too hard to read. Can you post again when your scanner is working or take a photo with a digital camera? That would help a ton and would allow the GW community to give you feedback.
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Let's try again--floorplan feedback please!
Q
Comments (14)
Since you're working with an architect, I'd have no bones about telling him to go back to the drawing table and draw up a more functional plan. I'd list out what you like about what he's drawn and every single thing that you don't like and why. Be blunt and then sit back and see what he comes up with. If he doesn't get more functional then I'd have no problems with taking your business elsewhere unless you are totally in love with him/her for other reasons I can tell you realize that there are quite a few basic flaws with the plan. Go with your gut and if you don't need a room, there's no reason to have it in order to "fill in the space". Your architect shouldn't give you a room you don't want just because he's got a gap in the house! Starting with walking in the house from the garage. How would you get in? The door would either be limited to a 90 degree angle and then bump into the bench and block the way to the laundry room or it would open across the other hallway. To get from your bedroom to the laundry room requires 5 turns.... that's an awful lot of weaving around. You're right about the back to back vanities .... tell the architect that you expected better! You'd need to thread that gauntlet everytime you needed something from the closet. If you leave the MBR in that location, I'd insist on a sound insulated perhaps double wall. Your kids are still young, but eventually you'll be hearing every noise and rumble of the TV from that wall if they are up later than you. Try and picture yourself and the kids doing the ordinary things and walking about the house, eating, drinking, sleeping, opening doors, hanging up coats, letting the dog out of the house, running to the laundry room for a shirt you forgot, Good luck and I hope I didn't come off as too harsh! Really! Since you are still at the beginning plan stage now is the time to ask these questions and not be afraid to make drastic changes if it's necessary.
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what do you think would look better-trying to fit a lot into 58'
Q
Comments (4)
So you want a free-standing vanity (ordered from stock) set between the window wall and a newly added built-in linen closet bumped out from the chimney soffit wall? I don't see why not. If there is space to slide a cabinet in, then isn't there enough space to build one in? You may end up with closer to only 12" of usuable shelf space, because of frame and drywall- but buying a freestanding cabinet will yield even less overall storage...and two furniture pieces standing tight in the alcove is not your ideal- regardless of the pieces matching. A cabinet shop could build a custom vanity with an attached (or seperate) linen closet, that would be "ok" and expensive - but your idea is the best use of the space and visually cleaner, and....VERY do-able. Really. If your contractor and crew can't build the linen cabinet frame and door(s) then a cabinet shop can build and deliver the rough cabinet box and doors- for your contractor to secure to studs, sheetrock in, and trim out. I may not understand the issue fully but this seems similar to a closet we had worked-in to replace an open narrow niche- sorry, no photos. I hope you get what you need without settling unnecessarily. hth ps...looking at your floorplan does not tell the whole story, I know....but have you considered placing the linen cabinet on the other end of the vanity, by the window? Having the vanity flanked by the linen cabinet and chimney to each side might feel more balanced and place attention on the vanity as a focal point.
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Need LOTS of ideas/help gathering space Lots of Pics
Q
Comments (3)
What a gorgeous home! And I LOVE the fabric. If the chairs are good quality and comfortable, I'd definitely do it. Twelve yds is probably not enough for four chairs, but people has posted examples here of mixing fabrics on chairs, and it can look great. For example, use the japan-inspired fabric on the backs of chair, and use another fabric for heavy-use cushions and inside back. Once you add a coffee table and rug, I think the scale will look more reasonable. Re: bar for six, you could roughly double the depth of the bar and add a seat at either end. Of course, that would involve some cost, but not much if choose e.g. wood as the top piece. Depending on how much room you need to walk behind the bar, you might even be able to do something larger, with a curve to it.
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Can people post layouts of 13x20ish kitchens with island & table?
Q
Comments (31)
My kitchen is 13'x20', and there are 7 pages of photos linked. The photos go from original to new kitchen. If you'd like any of the KD's plans, let me know. I'll scan them and add them to the photo album. One end has the working end of the kitchen, the other has the dining area. There is an 8' archway into the family room on the dining end (it used to be a 6' sliding door to the outside patio), and a 45" square window over the sink that is now just an opening into the family room - used to be a glass window overlooking a very messy patio! DonnaR/CA Here is a link that might be useful: Donna's kitchen from start to finish
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georgethedog
Original Author
12 years ago
Trying again... this image is a little better. still not the best but hopefully more legible. I realize it is not the biggest kitchen - would be ideal in many ways to take out the chimney behind the proposed refrigerator location but just thinking that will be too much $$$.

any ideas for improvement? we will have a lot of storage space and a second sink in the butler's pantry.
marcolo
12 years ago
In trying to frame your garden view, you now have the sink and range too close together, and then put the DW there to boot. Work table or not, the part of a countertop that gets used the most for food prep is between sink and range.
georgethedog
Original Author
12 years ago
marcolo,
the new window can go anywhere and really isn't that related to framing a garden view. my first priority is the functioning of the space. I am giving myself 42" of work space between the range and cooktop - is this not a decent amount? I agree that this is where most food prep takes place and worked to make the most space here as possible. Not sure what i could do to improve on this. Any ideas?

The window doesn't have to go there. Currently it is to the left of where I am showing it on this plan. BUT that location is even worse for work space (at least if i am to line my sink up under the window which would be my preference).

The Kohler 45" stages sink I think would help my situation. I wash an enormous amount of fresh produce and fruit and think that this would be happening more to the right since the drain board would be to the right (taking a bit of space from the magic corner unit that won't be used anyway).

Currently my dishwasher is where the magic corner door will be. I absolutely hate it in this spot. I definitely want it right next to my sink.

any thoughts for improving are appreciated
davidro1
12 years ago
I think before looking at the proposed layout of cabinets, I would want to look at the whole house floor plan. I see a lot of floor space in proportion to the counter space. I see a lot of "new" openings, windows, and doors. One way to improve things might be to know where to put doors and openings.
NewSouthernBelle
12 years ago
I agree with David - we need more visual context and layout information.

Three immediate questions -
1. Do you need that much space in the utility / laundry room?
2. Where do you see the clean up zone going? Same place as the prep area between the range and sink? Or is it going to be on the other side - the magic corner side?
3. Comment actually - you have no immediate landing space from the oven.

Have you looked at Buehl's link regarding layout? Read the "Layout Help" section of the "Read Me" thread? It is a great place to start and really gives you more information that you can handle all at once. Check it out below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Read the Layout Help Section
palimpsest
12 years ago
You have room for a U-shaped plan here, which would get you more counterspace where you need it.

Do you have a floorplan for the rest of the floor?
rosie
12 years ago
It'd also be helpful to know what kind of cooks you are so we don't go trying to push inappropriate assumptions on you. Also how you would like to use the room in general.

For instance, if it were mine, I already know I'd put a second, seldom-used (by me) oven elsewhere altogether and maximize my counter space. I also know I'd seldom use that center island in this particular layout, so I'd bring in a nice serviceable table and very comfortable chairs for living AND cooking in there.

Unless, of course, as suggested I decided to blow out the box entirely. Your view out back is very nice. Do you guys have a place to sit and enjoy it already? Or views of another pretty garden area from another room for that?

BTW, beating an old drum, I would absolutely make us the very best working layout I could, and the sink would go where we needed it to be, regardless of where we chose to place the window--which would be done for our enjoyment and function, not the sink's.
lavender_lass
12 years ago
I agree with Palimpsest...a U-shaped kitchen might work better, in your space. Can you move the door down a bit more, to give yourself as much countertop space as possible? Maybe put the cooktop on that wall? A larger window, centered in the U, with DW on the right and trash on the left would give you a lot more function, than the work table, IMHO.

While I can understand not wanting to take down the chimney (expensive) you would end up with a much larger space and room for an eat-in kitchen. Depending on your likes and budget...that may be worth thinking about, but if not, the U-shape would be my first choice. Just my two cents :)
rhome410
12 years ago
I could see sticking with the L and island, but I think I'd want the sink on one wall and the rangetop on the other. Maybe move fridge and ovens to where the rangetop is and put the rangetop where the trash is? Or move only the fridge and center the rangetop on the window wal (windows flanking)l, and put the sink on the oven wall?

I see a stuffed bunny. If you have kids, one day you might want them loading or clearing the dw and setting the table while you cook and the dw between sink and stove could be a big problem. It would be for the way we do things. Others don't feel the same.
Buehl
12 years ago
Are you MamaDadaPaige? If so, I use your bumped out window in your "old" home all the time to show how nice it can be done! Are you planning something similar here as well?

"...I am giving myself 42" of work space between the range and cooktop - is this not a decent amount? ..."

It's not the amount of space that's an issue, it's the fact that your DW is in the middle of that space. Having a DW in the middle of the Prep Zone is usually not a good idea. It makes it difficult to separate the Cleanup and Prep Zones and it means prepping over a DW that might be running (hot & steamy!) or a DW that someone else is trying to load or unload or getting something out of or put something in while you're trying to prep in the same space.

A couple of options...for discussion...

Layout #1 and my "favorite" of the two

..

Layout #2
bmorepanic
12 years ago
And now for something completely different...

Rats! Forgot to do the math. The island will likely need to be more shallow - like 28".
georgethedog
Original Author
12 years ago
thank you all for your excellent suggestions. I have a lot to mull over.

It would be FANTASTIC if we could take the chimney out - the utility room doesn't need to be so large but is dictated as such because of the chimney. We've had a couple of contractors in and it will be too costly to take it out. The kitchen/utility room are at the end of the house - what lies beyond the sink wall is one story off the ground without a deck so building out this way will not be without considerable expense.

The wall with the exterior door already has a door - this is coming in off of a covered porch - currently the door is about 18" off the wall where I had proposed the range and sink. Moving it down will be necessary.

I had considered having the door come in through the butler's pantry (this is the opening to the right of the 13" deep tall pantry) but we absolutely love the pantry and don't want to lose it - also it is a narrow space and i think coming in and out of here will feel cramped, BUT I won't rule it out either.

Will mull over all you have offered
thanks!