Be sure you figure wall thickness and exact fixture layout for the powder room to make sure you're planning it large enough.

The kitchen plan looks pretty good. Be sure you have things drawn to scale so you have an accurate idea of your aisle widths. (Are your sink wall cabs drawn at a full 2 ft?) I wouldn't want the aisles any narrower than the 42" and 48" you seem to show.

Can you make the door to the basement open into the hallway instead of the kitchen? If there is a landing it could be easy to do. That way the space would be freed up to create a wider island there or maybe put in a small table or second island.

There is no landing so not sure but it would be nice if the door could be moved somehow -I guess the top 3-4 steps could be rebuilt to go sideways?

Rhome-the sink wall cabs may not have been stretched properly to 2 ft so will have to adjust that.And I understand what you are saying about the exact dimensions and walls.
If this is in the right direction we may get the Architect to provide some input while we finish bidding out the addition.

I do like the general layout with this. The kitchen location and layout makes sense. The bathroom isn't in the way. Your office is a little small, but you seem fine with that. I'm just don't know what would be best in the basement to patio slider space. I keep wanting to put a table or maybe a second island there. Maybe you could put in a drop down disco ball and make it a dance floor, LOL.

Ha! I like that idea-we'll keep it in mind for the next party!
The nook was an addition done by a previous owner and it just isn't quite big enough-they had a rectangle table in the space. We have a small round table for 4 (we are a family of 5) and we added the sliders .But it is pretty tight with the columns/walls and access to the patio, but I do like the access to the patio there. And with the dining room/breakfast room so near by a table seems redundant. But we do sit down there frequently for a cup of coffee or the 3 kids each breakfast there or do homework.All the activities that would be great for an island. Seems like when some are working in the kitchen it's easier for others to plop down at the small table and still be in the same room.
We even tossed around just 2 cozy chairs there-like a reading/sunroom. Or incorporating a wet bar around the columns where the plumbing is but that still leaves a lot of 'unused' space there. And lastly thought of a computer desk to the right of the sliders , but it would have to be kept super tidy due to the view from the front foyer. Such a shame to have square footage that can't be used properly!

Would it be possible to put an island attached to the columns (same depth) running parallel to the sliders for about 4'? You could use it strictly for hanging/breakfastbar/ homework... that sort of thing. Even better would be if you could curve it somehow increasing the length and allowing for more stools. In that case you'd have the depth to double side the overhang. I don't have the drawing capacities like others so I can't draw what I'm trying to describe.

Do you mean like this.? It seems feasible , if that wouldn't be an unusual view from the front door (which is not used very much). It's funny how we think about the view from the front door and it seems that you try to hide the view of the kitchen even though that seems to be the WOW factor of so many homes!

Was also wondering if the wet bar area would be a better spot to use as a coffee station as well? Seems like a nice easy to get to area , close to breakfast room , porch, etc. But either spot seems to be reasonable for that.

I like the second idea and I do think that making the wet bar also your coffee/rekfast bar would be a great idea. We created a cofee/breakfast hutch in our breakfast room, including fridge drawers iu the center. We can use the fridge drawers for milk, juice, water and other drinks all the time, and when we entertain, we can adjust the mix for the occassion. It is incredible handy for making morning coffee and for daily meals yet still works well for beverage service when we need it.

I'm not sure you have turning room for relocating the basement stairs door unless you totally rebuild the stairs and possibly impede the powder room or office space. Might not be worth it.

About that column island, what about making it look like a furniture piece with doors that open up to reveal stools stored inside. Use those doors that roll inside and you could still have knee space -- a buffet when entertaining, a kitchen table when it's family time. ???

Are those 2 blue squares in the living room columns? Looks like you added the 2nd one to match the column with the HVAC?

I'm not loving that last layout you posted with the island near the sliders. I think it looks like you're just trying to fill the space. I also worry that you'll constantly be walking around it to get to the dining area. It looks like it could wind up as a different kind of "barrier island". Also, the wet bar cabinets don't look like they're much deeper than 12" as they're laid out on the grid. If you actually made them 24" deep, I don't know that the island could even fit there with the right clearances.

I much prefer some version of the 1st angled island you posted. Would you have room for stools are both sides of the angled part?

Personally, in that angled area to the right of the sliders, I might tend to just do a freestanding piece of furniture on the angle. Maybe a nice armoire or something. Just looks to me like you're trying to squeeze extra cabinets in there.

Mahlgold: No sorry the blue squares were my last minute effort to see what rearranging our sectional and 2 chairs around the fireplace rather than the "tv wall' in the family room would look like.

I do feel like we are just trying to fill the nook space at this point and the round table that is there currently certainly is a 'barrier' for getting in and out to the yard so an island in place of that could result in the same thing.

I did see an angled island at Lowes today that was 3 ft across and then it looked like it narrowed to 2 ft at the bend so maybe that will be something to consider.

The armoire is a good idea too, it could be a buffet hutch or something for the breakfast room or just storage for eating outside/grilling.

I have to go back and do a better job at clearances and dimensions. I was all set to purchase BH&G that so many here use only to find out it is not MAC compatible. So I rushed thru some stuff in excel/powerpoint.

My husband isn't sold on these no addition plans yet, he still has his heart set on the addition.

Try turning the column island 90 degrees and see if that would work better.

lascatx: i didn't see your earlier post. I am not sure if I am visualizing what you are saying correctly-did you ever see the type of island you are mentioning. Sounds interesting!
I turned the island 90 degrees and it may work better but it could still be tight with the wet bar/coffee area unless we figured out something creative like you described with the stools.Although knowing my 3 boys (9,7,4 yrs) they would never put the stools away!

Still wondering if the view from the front door is something to be worried about or not?

If you could maybe make it round, it could be more like a "foyer" table. Not really sure how useful that would be, but it might look nice and be a nice transition from the kitchen to the dining area. Plus, the round shape would allow for a nice flow around the table. The columns could/would probably be an issue.

What if you made the plumbing columns into sort of a divider wall? Maybe a half wall with columns on top? You could then maybe put a nice buffet type piece there. Maybe it could have your bar sink, wine cooler? Wouldn't be seating there, but it would be useful. Or, if you wanted a full wall, you could do a hutch type cabinet.

I think I like the idea of either a half wall in the column area or a wet bar. One of our first plans by a KD did include a bar around the columns which looked great-it wrapped around onto the family room side as well (like a big square).
We were quite shocked when the cost of the cabinets/counter (no sink) was $12K base price (and another $2-$5K upcharge for door/stain etc)., just for the wet bar! I am SURE this can be done cheaper...just your suggestion brought back memories of a year ago on our first cabinet estimate! A $17K wet bar that was pretty small! This was a Brookhaven cabinet rep. Crazy!

So looks like we can do a bar where the columns are and a furniture piece/hutch in the angled part (or vice versa if we build a wall at the columns).

Wow! My entire kithen and breakfast hutch wouldn't have been much more than that if we had gone with all Brookhaven (we mixed with Woodmode). I'd get another BH quote if you can. I see you included counter in that proce -- what was the material for that? You also said square -- as in 4 base cabinets? Not round (which would probably have to be done in Woodmode and be at a premium)? I do like my BH cabinets, but yikes!

The idea of doing the table/bar around the columns could be very good too. I didn't suggest it becuase of the chair placement was so close and I wasn't sure you had room for it -- but it could be very unique and very functional.

I haven't seen cabinets or an island done like I was talking about above, but I have seen furniture pieces with that type of doors (as well as the double hinges -- like and armoire or entertainment center) and tables with stools that hide underneath -- it would be a hybrid of those ideas.

I"m relieved that the post-island idea is getting tweaked. Often times an idea will pop into my head and I lay it out there without thinking. Can get a girl in trouble.... as I'm always thinking. I thought afterwards... Oh man... why did I post that... it' probably a ridiculous notion for a myraid of reason. But these great GW'rs seem to find a way to explore all concepts. Awesome!

The quote was a year ago and we did not get the drawings , but based on our memory it was simply 2 base cabs on the kitchen side, 2 on the family room side and uppers I think as well with granite counter on each side. Definitely BH was quoted. The main kitchen started at $68K (this included granite,backsplash,and vent hood) and install. But upcharges for door style was $2-$6K and for glaze: $11K!!!!! Needless to say we moved on to other stores but really haven;t done considerably better. I have a few leads from GW on more affordable cabinets and as you suggested BH prices can really vary. So still have a lot more work to do!

Anyway, seems like some decent ideas possibly to go back to the architect with to compare this to the addition option in terms of function and cost.
If I could now cut my cabinet cost in half AND save some on the addition or even proceed without the addition we'd be in good shape!

remodelfla- i just truly appreciate the time that people here take to read and keep up with so many posters layouts and issues! And all of the brainstorming is great to rule out an idea or to find something that wouldn't have come up at all -everyone just feeds off of each others ideas. I'd rather it come up here on paper than in my kitchen when it can't be rotated 90degrees or removed altogether!
Glad to see you are here-I just read about the change in your plans.How generous of you to postpone your plans for a while to help a friend!

Ravmd, I'm sorry but I suspect that removal of a bolted-down island on view from your front door would be the catalist for next decade's remodel project. Since that space doesn't work for you, I'd recommend including fixing it, not filling it (as it struck Malhgold too), in this project--or just leaving it alone until you can get to it.

You mentioned how your family likes to use that area. That doesn't necessarily need more room, just that the space you have be reconfigured so that it's right for those functions, including adjusting the exterior walls as necessary. I personally love the airiness of the view right through your home, but in many lovely homes the foyer opens only to a front room or two, so I'd personally even consider closing off that through view if that's what it took to develop this prize square footage as the beloved family space it ideally should be.

Rosie-thanks for your input (and all the previous posts for the addition plans).Your ideas are always right on.
I suspect you are right. It is such a hard area to work with as the small nook addition was intended for a small table, and for our family of 5 it works for some things but is not ideal.
It's funny you say that while the open view is nice that maybe the sq footage could be used better if we closed it off. When we moved in , you walked down the foyer to be stopped by a huge set (2) of double door closets and had to make a right turn (towards the powder room) and then a left to get into the kitchen.It felt like a maze! And it was a dark area! I love it open but also think about if it was somewhat closed if we can make better use of the space. The 2 sets of double closets was too much so it's hard to forget about how much we hated that! But something less bulky might be the solution. But the darn basement door is the 2nd obstacle still.

One other thought has been putting a cushioned built in bench where the sliders are and then just a single french door out of that space, but not sure that really uses the 'square footage either!"

You even mentioned we shouldn't rule out adjusting exterior walls.
One thought was a less expensive addition -just bumping out the nook to be even with the breakfast/dining room. But my fear was then we could be creating a huge dining room and possibly more square footage not used well, but I haven't thought it thru all the way as my DH thinks if we are 'bumping out' we should be doing the whole back wall of the kitchen despite the extra cost of moving a huge load bearing wall.
It could be a multi purpose room-just have to think it thru more.

How about making the door to the powder room flush with the bottom of the stairs up. Then completely lose the wall between the office and the kitchen and rearrange the space that way, with an island running perpendicular to the current direction. The PR could run along the front of the house or along the stairs, but by closing off that door to the old office you'd have more wall space to play with in your new kitchen, and might be able to shift more kitchen away from the stairs to the basement. You could still tuck a desk and filing in there. I'm late to the party, so maybe you've already considered and discarded this.

I'm in agreement with others here, that while saving the cost of the large addition would be very cool, you don't want to spend a smaller fortune fixing and not end up with the space "fixed".

We had talked about that scenario but really haven't explored in on paper yet.
Initial thoughts were on the plus side:
1)lots of room for the kitchen and plenty of room for an island
2)more windows in the kitchen
but on the negative:
1)is PR still smack in the middle of the kitchen space? we have that now and it is a little strange
2)kitchen is more separated from the FR and DR (trying to envision working in the front corner of the house where I can't see anyone else in the house)
3)loss of mudroom and office (but not a deal breaker)
4)still not sure what to do with basement area to the nook area in this scenario

I agree we want to do it right even if it does cost extra. And after 2 yrs of dragging this out we certainly don't want to think "what if" whether we end up with an addition in the plans or not.

is this the general idea you are thinking?

Just throwing stuff out there. Is there any way to relocate the powder room to the right of the slider in that nook area? What about trying to incorporate it near the plumbing columns? Would have to figure out where would be the best location for the door to open! Might be a strange spot, but it would be centrally located and out of the kitchen.

Or..if you decide to do the entire length as the kitchen, couldn't you take part of the northwest space and put a powder room there?

I'm sorry I don't have a history with you and this planning, so I may be a bit out of the loop. I'd like to look at it further, but I need to leave for a high school football game.

I did want to ask if you have another Brookhaven dealer. Maybe I did get a really good deal, but my kitchen is not particularly small (close to 14 x 14) and I stacked cabinets to a 10 foot ceiling on the sides. I also did my hutch and island (cherry) in Woodmode with a more expensive door, glaze, distressing and burnishing. I also have 10 foot stacked cabinets on an 8 foot wall (includes a 48" stainless fridge) in a Woodmode cabinet with a custom color painted finish. I have marble counters and a premium granite on the island and hutch. I went with Thermador colums, Wolf Rangetop, Wolf double ovens, a micro drawer, a warming drawer, refrigerator drawers in the hutch, custom leaded glass doors in the hutch dn antique glass doors in the perimeter uppers, a huge 16 gague sink, prep sink (had to chhiel a slab to put in water lines and drain), potfiller, 1200 cfm hood, handmade subwayswith a 3 piece liner insert and 2 DWs. My total, including installation, lighting and the whole hibang was in the same neighborhood as your cabinet quoate.

I was a bit silly and only got one BH quote, but I was ready to deal with this person and the deal seemed solid from what I had seen personally and on this forum. I don't know hwat someone else would have quoted me onthe same kitchen. I do know that I've seen some fairly large swings in BH quotes on thie forum. I don't know all the details of them, but it's enough to make me say try another dealer if you can.

Mahlgold:The PR in nook area or the column area would seem awkward to me at first but I need to time to think outside the box. The NW corner seems to make sense if the kitchen was as in the last post and then the kitchen can be widened as well.
However I would still be concerned that I would feel too far away from people/activity on the porch/patio,dining room and family room if I was working in that kitchen.

Lascatx-your info and others I received here give us the HOPE that we need. We have received 3 cabinet quotes so far and while I don't have the details of # of cabs , they were all really high: Dynasty = $42K(no install,no counters), Fieldstone = $55K
From what I have learned here we should be able to so better!
So between the high cabinet quotes and the high addition cost quote we are 1)in the process of getting more bids and
2)relooking at our plan to see what we could do if we don't do the addition.
Below is the kitchen plan we are getting bids on that seems to be way above our budget! This is also the plan the cabinet quotes were based on -there is a bit of cabinetry with the 2 hutches against the north wall by the sliders going to the patio but nothing really outrageous!
Just to put it in perspective -the cabinets for each hutch in Dynasty Cabs were $5-$6K -guess this is more reasonable than the BH wet bar quote we got.

Here is the plan if we go with the addition and what the cab quotes were based on: (and the depressing part is we have not included any new cabs in the mudroom or laundry room yet based on the high quotes we got on the kitchen)

If you boxed in the nook area to the right of the slider for the PR, that would also give you extra wall space to run some cabinets from the kitchen and would also "fill up" some of that open space that you don't know what to do with. You'd also have more space so you could run a bigger horizontal island. I think.......

You could then get back your office/message center/all purpose area.

Personally, I think I'd feel like I was skating back and forth if the kitchen was same length as the family room. If you were planning a 2nd eating area in the south end, it would probably work out better as you'd be working in the north end.

Hope I am not just grasping here, but had an idea in the middle of sleeping that I just wanted to get on paper.
Does this improve on things at all ? This would include an addition to box of the nook area and make it even with the dining room /breakfast room
We are not 'formal dining room' eaters so having it open to the island may not too bad. We would have to reconfigure the 'plumbing columns to make room for island seating.
Malhgold-still thinking of your last idea-maybe in tonights sleep!
re. the other options, I decided I would not want the kitchen spread into the office space (too far away from everything).

I know there are some not so great obstacles like the basement door-it can either open into the kitchen or front foyer, not sure which is worse?
And the view again from the front foyer of the island seats....maybe the basement door will be open and block it!!:)

The island seats probably won't be visible from the foyer unless they're occupied, I don't think.

In the last plan, I'd switch fridge and pantry. It'd still be accessible to people who want snacks, but better for the cook.

A thought about the long island in between kitchen and dining room. When you are using the dining room, unless you're always going to serve buffet style, it will be a lot of laps around that island to get food and dishes to and from the dining table.

I think if you're going to consider moving those columns, it offers more options for plans you've looked at previously.

You may have already answered this...Is there a reason that space (where you show the long island) can't become your actual dining room?

The fridge switch makes a lot of sense.
And I can see what you are saying about getting into the dining room around the island. It would be a pain and we eat on the porch sometimes too so that would be hard to get to.
I hadn't thought about putting the dining room where the long island is shown-that could work but then how would the old DR be used?
And curious what other options become available if we move the plumbing columns in the previously posted plans!! Still can't think of how to use the space.

I guess the million dollar question is.... how much of an improvement does the 'full addition plan" offer over any of the initial mock ups of the 'no addition plan' ? And is it a substantial improvement that could justify the cost? I know you can't really answer that.... but ...

Maybe I just mean that it becomes a more usable space and doesn't crowd other spaces (restricting island placement, etc) if the columns are no longer there. I wasn't really in favor of any plan that left them standing there in the middle of the space by themselves or had them awkwardly attached to an island. In the addition plan, they were nicely incorporated as a design element. If you take them out/move them, it may make some of your non-addition plans work better.

What to use the extra (dining) room for? Sitting, reading, music, TV, sewing, arts and crafts........ With the family room as your TV and more active room, I think it'd be nice to have a quiet sitting and reading area overlooking the porch. We often have other families over and it's nice for the kids to have a noisier space and the adults to have a quieter conversation spot in close proximity to the kids. In our house, that works when it's just us, too...without guests.

Going back to the layout you had with the island against the columns, what if you walled up that same area and put a nice upholstered banquette there instead perhaps with a small table and art or clock above. It could be a comfortable place to sit and talk with whomever is cooking in the kitchen or just enjoy a cup of coffee and the view.

I haven't had much to say so far, because I don't have any good ideas to offer. So this is what I'm thinking...

Your showing about the same quantity and complexity of cabinets as the addition plan - the latest plan might actually need more cabinetry.

You are moving/removing a lot of walls and waterworks at the level where it might cost lots o' cash. And you may quite possibly need to do partial remodels of upstairs baths and/or some bedrooms and/or your basement rooms.

That's it - except for asking if there is a cooktop for those ovens?

Rhome-thanks for all your input-the ideas for the extra 'kid free' room sounds great! Seems as you have been in our home before!
Linley- the banquette makes a lot of sense as an idea -doesn't require much room yet uses the space in a nice way.
bmorepanic- thanks for at least reading so much of the posts that you could comment even without a 'good idea'. I agree, it could cost a lot for the wall /plumbing moves and we definitely don't want to get to that stage and then wish we had paid just a little more for the full addition so we will look at all these options carefully.
And yes I will have a range in our plan somewhere -I just marked that spot as oven.

I think of all the ones we have posted I like in this order
1) Full addition Plan (9/26)
2)No addition plan -one of the 1st ones posted in this series like 9/24 or 9/25 with a wet bar in the nook and maybe the banquette or simple cushion bench along the columns(build a half wall like mahlgold suggested).
3)Partial addition plan (9/27) but not sold on the island blocking the access to the dining room space as Rhome mentioned. Haven't relooked at some of the other ideas rhome suggested here as to flipping the DR location.

The full addition plan does give you a lot of pantry and storage space, the mudroom and a full office space. It is a lot of cabinetry too, but you might be able to cut some of that cost by building the pantries in drywall and adding ddors ---swing or sliders. I would consider whether you want that third sink near the mudroom more (handwashing, perhaps gardening or other outside/garage activities) or whether it and beverage service would be better closer to the dining and entertaining spaces.

I don't like the idea of a bench or the long island in the hallway, but I do think you could create a bar there and use the corner of the nook for a reading/coffee/conversation spot. Use a comfy reading chair or two with a small table or something like a bistro set or tall pub table. That's similar to the ones posted on 9/25, but putting your bar by the columns.

For me, it would be the full addition or none -- not going partway. I think you need to weigh the cost/benefit analysis and see whether it is worth it to add on or whether you get enough by reworking what is there. I couldn't move anything, so I was spared that calculation.

The idea of the bar/sink on the right side with the 'addition plan' was that the other hutch would be a dining room hutch storage thing which would be a better thing to see coming in the front door than the wet bar. I think we went back and forth on switching the 2 hutches-they both have advantages in each spot. I think on a day to day basis it would be used for a coffee area. We haven't even given a thought about what we need in the mudroom/laundry area -this kitchen stuff takes up all of our time! But a sink would be handy. I just can't imagine 4 sinks between the kitchen/mudroom areas.

In the no addition plan, I do like the idea of the nook as a wet bar,coffee, comfy sitting area. I agree -full addition or none (with none meaning reworking the interior walls). The partial addition did not seem to give us space where we need it. I just feel there is a way to orient things to give us some really nice space by working with the interior walls.
Just got back from the library with the "Not So Big House" that was recommended here!!!