How wide are those islands in the second pic? Assuming 42" aisles and 25.5" wall cab/counter runs...

25.5" + 42" + X + 42" + 25.5" = 204" (17')

That leaves 69" for the islands...for 3 seats, you need 72"...it's pretty close so you might be able to fit 3.

How much aisle space is there b/w the table & the outside island (the one w/seating)?

What size & type of refrigerator? (width and depth including doors & handles)

I kind of like the idea of the partial opening in the LR wall that's shown in the first pic. BUT, I think I would prefer the sink on the wall side...and a nice expanse of empty counter on the open side....unfortunately, that defeats the purpose of the wall for your dishes!

How do you feel about drawer storage for dishes? Many people have that here and are very happy with it. You could have a small upper cabinet just for glasses on the wall the sink is in front of and store the rest of your dishes on the other side of the sink from the DW and/or in the island w/a drawer base that pulls out toward the sink.

You might consider a double-sided trash pullout on the "bottom" end of the inside island...that way it can service both the Cleanup Zone and the Prep & Cooking Zones.

I am puzzled by a pantry that has an inner door leading to a space called "Storage".

If you used the entire apace as a U-shaped storage area you would have more space for storing things.

Hi Buehl! I was hoping you would respond.

The islands are drawn 72" wide...I was taking into consideration 24" for cabinetry rather than 25.5" for overhang, etc, so that makes perfect sense.

Between the table and outer island, it's 7' from top to top, not considering chairs.

DH is lobbying for the 36" Miele all fridge (we plan to have 2 upright freezers in the pantry). The dimensions of that fridge are listed as W: 35 3/4', D: 24", H: 83 1/2". If we don't get the Miele, we still plan on it being some sort of integrated built in (Thermador, Liebherr, etc).

I totally agree with you on the wall and sink issue! I really want the sink (and mess) to be hidden from the LR view, but at the same time, I'd like to be able to watch TV or visit as I clean, too. Trying to figure out how to achieve both... I am absolutely okay with dish drawers, and in fact would prefer them for plates/bowls. It's mostly the glasses I worry about as I will have little hands helping for a while, and I think storing those low might be a bad idea.

This morning, I'm wondering if one long island running parallel to the fridge wall might be a better idea? Maybe like 5' wide by 10' long or something. I hate huge square islands (like the one in the original plan) because I think they waste space in the middle that you can't reach and are hard to clean.

What do you think about that doorway in the original plan that leads to the study? I think it's unnecessary because if you walk out by the sink wall and around the kitchen wall, it's like three feet into the study (which will be open and also function as a piano room). So, in my plan, I closed that doorway off with the intention of just putting more cabinet/drawer space there. Thoughts?

Really, I'm open to anything as long as it gets me a couple of seats and a nice, open, flat area for workspace.

Lazygardens: I hear you on that weird storage door. I think the architect thought it would be useful as a broom closet or something, but I'm pretty sure I'm nixing it and annexing that space for more useful, open storage.

Shameless bump...

Ideas, anyone? :)

This weekend maybe?

I'm a little worried about dimensions, since there seems to be more fit into the space in the second plan than the first. I think the fridge location is improved in your plan, and whether or not you need that doorway into the study depends on your own wishes about that convenience. If you don't need it, it benefits your kitchen to have it out of the way.

Is the breakfast room your only dining space or is there another dining room elsewhere?

You have a lot of counter to the left of the stove and on the fridge wall. Do you have plans for those areas? Have you thought about putting the fridge where the oven is and put the oven on the wall with a baking center? Or not...And put the fridge in position A, where it's handy to the cook, but could also serve a nice breakfast counter/snack counter area on the rest of that wall....toaster, coffee maker, etc.

Do you have any plan to block the open view of the sink from the living room? Do you want to see your entire kitchen from the living room? Maybe 48-54" tall bookshelves or glass-doored storage unit that faces the living room and backs up to the sink? You could still see out, and see in to some extent, but at least the sink itself would be hidden.

Hi Rhome!

I've been lurking here long enough to know the saga about your F&P ovens, and I think you ended up replacing them with Monograms, which you don't particularly like? I'd love to talk ovens with you at some point.

After sleeping on the plan a bit, I too am thinking that I might be trying to cram too much in that space. Aisle widths are important in my house; we will have two children at the time we move in, with the possibility of more. Plus, I have a huge mastiff who insists on being my shadow at all times, so it's important for him to have space to sleep in the kitchen (plus, once we move, I have plans to acquire Mastiff #2, so I'll have two of the velcro beasts underfoot).

This is the only eating area in the house, and the table represented is our current table. We will likely host most holiday family dinners, so it's important to have space to extend the table occasionally. It might be tight those times, but it's doable for a meal once a month or so.

It's an interesting thought to swap the ovens with the fridge. My tentative plans are to use the area on the fridge wall as a baking center. I would keep baking supplies in the uppers/lowers, and I have an ambitious idea to recess an area behind the backsplash to store my Kitchenaid, food pro, bread machine, and other small appliances behind one of those sliding backsplash doors. So, I'd do baking prep on that counter, turn and use the island for putting stuff in pans/sheets, and then put it in to bake. I tend to be a very spread out cook.

I have no idea what I'm going to do about the sink/LR issue. The bookcases are intriguing. I want the best of both worlds - the ability to clean and see out to visit or watch TV, but at the same time, the ability to hide messes from people in the LR. Trying to decide how to achieve this...

Here's a new layout, with only the island changed. After I drew it up, I was thinking I could make it 5 x 10 instead (which bumps me to continent, I think?), and then I could put two seat on the end and possibly a seat on either side in a pinch, without losing prep space. But then maybe I'm trying to cram too much stuff in again if I tack those 2' on. I don't want to feel crowded.

Thanks!!

While I'm a fan of open layouts, I can't say that I'd be happy to have the sink in the island overlooking the living room, especially when you have other wall space where the clean up area could go. Also, have you given any thought to the fact that when people are wanting food/drinks, they're are going to have to walk across the kitchen to get to the frig and pantry area. And right now from the LR, there is a clear path to the pantry, right in front of the cooktop. Have you thought about closing up that opening? I know my kids would be running down that aisle all the time looking for something to eat, unless you're planning on keeping food elsewhere in the kitchen proper.

Just a thought....what if you moved the refrigerators to either end of the cooktop run. Then moved the clean up sink to where the frig was. Could you put the ovens under the counter on island in front of the LR? Are you committed to separate ovens, would you consider a range? Do you need 2 refrigerators? Could you do 1 on the cooktop run, then leave the ovens where they are? Maybe make the island in front of the LR a snack/breakfast center, with refrigerator drawers. You could keep some food for the kids there, etc.

Just some thoughts......

{{!gwi}}

Haha...I thought Bmore's sink said "Ocean!" (It did look big, but maybe not that big!)

Very good points, Mahlgold, and I do prefer the cooktop to face the long side of the island, as Bmore shows. That's one of my regrets about my plan. Your last plan, Mastiffmom, leaves a large unused space. Good for setting a little table for the kiddos to play or eat at when small, but maybe not the most efficient use of space for the long haul?

Forgot to answer this part...Of course I will gladly talk ovens with you at any time. Not sure I have any answers, because the more I get into these things, I just get more questions! But email me through 'my page' if you'd like.

While looking at this plan, I'mondering about the lack of storgae . Do you plan on placinbg both oven UC? I ask becauase you menttioned two small children with the possibility of more and two LARGE loving dogs. I'm imaginging ababy on you hip, dog by your kness, and you bending to pick something hot of a low hot oven. Seems to me, that a double oven would seruve the same function but maybe more practical.
What I like about bmoore's plan is the island doenot create a barrier to kitchenfunction and that's always not easy to achieve. If you removed the oven from under ther You free up drawer space to keep all your cooking supplies in drawers, readidly accessable and your dishware on the othe run.. I just came from a visit with wonderful friends who redid their ktichen. THEY put a wine/beverage bar and desk where the buffet is shown in the last drawing. It works really well for them for computer work/recipes, kids homework and then all those adult beverages. I don't knwo if I really understand the reason for splitting the frig units. Is one a frig and one a freezer? Could you put both down at the bottom of the cooktop run on the sink run?

It really has the bones to be a great multi cook kitchen.

Sorry if that was confusing - the two oven locations are suggestions. I'm not sure how much space there actually is or how large the appliances are.

I clipped the "ocean" off the original drawing. I thought it was kinda large...

Hello all, thanks so much for all the great input!

Let me help clear a couple of things up: we will have only ONE 36" all fridge unit in the kitchen proper. I have an enormous pantry which will hold two freezers (we store a lot of bulk food). The reasons for fridge "A" and "B" was just a location thing - do I put the fridge in location A or B? There will be only one. I am considering a set of fridge drawers for a snack area, but only if they fit into my appliance budget. They are one of my "if I run across the perfect situation, maybe..." items.

So, remodelfla, that helps answer your storage question, too. I plan on 99% (again, exception of some snack drawers) of my food, paper products, etc. being stored in the pantry. I want the kitchen to hold cooking utensils, dishes, and "hardware" items. I also prefer one set of wall ovens, for the reasons you stated, and just for ease of access. I don't want a range because I don't want to have to bend over for the ovens all the time.

Bmore, I really like your plan A LOT. Can you tell me what dimensions you're thinking for the seated island you drew? I also like the idea of just a flat, uninterrupted countertop for the snack center, because we love to have people over just to hang out, and that would provide a great area for putting out snacks and drinks for people to grab as they'd like.

I like the fridge location at the end of the sink run, by the snack center because it's easily accessible to anyone wanting to grab anything while I'm cooking or cleaning up on the other side. It's a little far from the main cooking area, but I actually don't think it would bother me. I am a Rachel Ray type prepper - get a bowl, dump fridge stuff into bowl all at once, carry over to prep area in one trip. Plus, again, it keeps people out of my way, which is a major plus.

If I went with something like Bmore's layout, where would you guys put a baking area? Maybe to the left of the cooktop? I'd love to have one of those sliding backsplash doors with a recessed area to hold my mixer, food pro, and bread machine, and I'm thinking maybe I could do it there. I don't think it would interfere much with the cooktop, because generally if I'm cooking on the stove I'm not baking at the same time. Really, I think this layout has loads of potential, thanks so much for helping me out of my rut.

LOL at my "ocean". I wrote it in as "clean", but my handwriting could certainly be better! That sink is drawn big because I was playing around with the idea of the 45" Kohler stages. I think, though, that I'm leaning towards a plain ol' 36" stainless undermount.

You all are wonderful! Please keep the input coming!!

Ack! I spelled my friend Malhgold's name wrong!

And I think CLEAN only turned into OCEAN because of the line across it...Not sloppy writing, so it was just my eyes.
;-)

I don't see a 'baking center' location in this plan, but you could keep baking stuff on the left of the cooktop. If you truly want a 'center,' maybe consider that where the snack area is? (with the oven moving, too) Maybe a little out of the way to completely 'make sense,' but not horrible and it depends on how important each is to you.

If the cooktop cabinets are around 2 feet deep, the center island is around 3.5 feet and the entertainment island is three feet deep. The stools are drawn as if a person is seated in them - so you have at least a three foot aisle behind the stools when in use.

If you got ref drawers, I'd go for the prep island.

I think it became ocean with the line. Mea culpa :)

Gotcha. I was estimating between 3.5 and 4 feet on the center island.

Fridge drawers would be great, but I think that's a luxury item that will happen only if we come across the deal of the century. My husband can't resist a good deal. ;)

And with at least a 36" sink, and two 9' islands, I'd say we're easily into oceans and continents!!

Going to redraw this today and see what we think.