The dw is far from the table now. The wall oven is in the path of people going to the fridge/freezer and is also far from the table.
The baking area is not out of the way, but right near the action of serving and cleaning up.
I like your earlier layouts, before anyone even suggested anything, better than this one.
Try to imagine the activity of serving the meal and clean up. As it is shown here, you have made those daily tasks more difficult.
The counter to the left of the stove in this layout has no special purpose as shown. Prep is on the island or by the stove. The baking is over to the upper part. The baker will need to get in the way of the cook going to and from the fridge. I liked it when the baker was on the other side of the stove in their own zone with no one going near there to do other tasks.
The fridge and freezer is convenient to the cook, but not to the table area.
Where would you store the plates and utensils? The areas near the dw are claimed already and are far from the table. If you put them on the other side of the sink, loading and unloading the dw will be a traffic issue.

I do like the hutch by the stairs though....

Thanks, Dianalo...looks like it's back to the drawing board for me...

In my second sentence, I meant the fridge and freezer are far from the table, not the oven.... Must have been tired ;)

The plan above mostly does not work because the baker is in a high traffic area and the most done tasks are now moved into the middle of the kitchen, so with a large family, you will have traffic issues. As it was set up on the previous thread, there was room for 3 people preparing for a meal or doing clean up without bothering each other too much.

I'm going to say a few things about seating spacing - pls feel free to pay no attention. Spacing of things like this is very personal, but there are some known things so you can evaluate your trade-offs.

To see if the clearances allowed are enough for you, one of the things you can do is get some people to be your "models" and set up different clearances using actual tables and chairs in your existing home or garage or even the yard. To model what you've got going on, you'll need about 8 chairs, three tables and about 5-6 people of various ages/sizes, maybe toss in a few cardboard boxes to be walls. Set up the furniture to mock up areas in the plan and then seat everyone and have them move around. Model the long side of the island with the additional counter and the table plus the short side of the island.

So, the first thing is allowing two feet of edge per person is the absolute minimum - not necessarily same as comfortable spacing. Particularly for adults, its kinda tight.

The second thing is that tables work differently from counters at their corners because tables are wider than they strictly need to be just to sit people opposite each other and the top is longer than where people sit on the sides. Both things open up some space on the end for a seating position.

When you use a counter corner, there isn't any "extra space". You literally can't have people on both sides of a counter corner as shown. Both sets of stools can't occupy the same place (the part under the counter) and two sets of dishes can't BOTH occupy the corner (draw a small circle to represent a place setting and you'll find the two corner settings overlap).

Next is the back to back seating and 4 foot aisles. Generally speaking, even when the chairs and stools aren't in use, they take up aisle space for their backs and legs. The amount could be anywhere between zero and about ten inches beyond the counter edge depending on the exact furniture you select. If you are using full dining chairs at the table - it may even be a bit more. When calculating aisles, I'm going to use 6 inches for the average "stick out past the edge".

When one side is in use, the people and their stools will take up about two feet of the aisle space. Dh didn't believe this either, so I made HIM sit in a small chair and measured it. The furniture on the other side with take up about 6 inches. So - for planning purposes, the island has two sides that may have an aisle of 18" anytime one side is in use. For this type of aisle, that seems fine to me - except for the long side of the island - that's kinda far and in the way to the back door. For me personally, I'd maintain this aisle at 30" minimum no matter who was seated where.

When the two stools on the short end of the island and the table are in use (same thing on the long side and the opposing counter facing the living room with stools), the aisle completely evaporates and another weird thing happens. When there are three seats in a row, the person in the center can't get out or get into their chair(or stools) without asking two or three people to move. That's because it takes about 32" to pull a chair out and become seated. Even if they could get to their chair by climbing through the leg forest, they couldn't pull it out to get into it.

Hth that helps with aisle choices.

So thoughts about the plan above. If you believe the dining room will be unused except for perhaps a holiday dinner, maybe consider a couple of alternates. I'm factoring in adding more aisle space behind the seating as I'm not sure you're going to actually like that.

The other things I'm thinking about are dish storage, cleanup and (of all things) entertainment as you prepared to have seating for 20 in the kitchen. So, below are just musings (since you were going to do it again anyway).

Both kill off a lot of stools - one is literally bigger than the other. As an example of YMMV, the little guy might "work better" being more compact - but it might not have enough room for you. Nether one is complete or perfect, but might spark some new ideas to consider.

BMP is right about the spacing, but I thought you were using the morning room daily and the counters for overflow on occasion. Are you still making adjustment based on the 1st plan after considering dianolo's suggestions?

Thank you, BMP...it is great to get such specific "rules" about the seating and aisles. I was worried about it so your feedback probably saved us a lot of future annoyance!

AB, we do intend to use the morning room for all family meals -- so at minimum it would be dinner most days.

The island/counters would tend to be for snacking, hanging out while someone is cooking, and the occasional "informal" family meal. The island would also be a central point for discussion and appetizers during entertaining -- not an everyday occurrence for us but still.

BMP, a few questions on your layout ideas:
- I see the hutch behind the counter seating in both designs...do you think that wall would look strange just sort of "floating" there? It does solve our concern about too much dead space between kitchen and great room

- Do the WOs next to the fridge cause any issues (hot next to cold, etc)? We have had mixed feedback on this idea and have steered away from it...but if it's not a big deal then we might consider it. That would solve some of dianalo's concerns related to traffic flowing through the baking area in my design.

- Is the box on the opposite side of mini bar a landing ledge?

- Did you intend 2 sinks in the first design or is that a copy/paste issue?

Thanks again for your thoughtful comments

The hutch move is to get it closer to the cleanup area and also for setting the table. I think it looks better when its a piece of furniture. Rococogurl has some lovely images in her kitchen pictures. I don't think a small wall would look funny if integrated into the design of both rooms.

Refrigerators and ovens are "usually" insulated these days and don't have those issues. Please do ask that question in the appliance forum for your particular appliances if you're worried - they know lots of details. I know placing them together can sometimes have door issues (where the door of the ref can open into the oven).

You could have that, or cookbooks or display shelves.

The double sinks were intended - but not seriously. I believe that the sink needs to be a little closer to the cooktop and baking. It could be any prep sink.

I've had DO next to RF in various homes for more than two decades without any problems. BMP is right about the insulation, but if concerned heat shields may be installed but really aren't necessary usually.

I'd prefer the island from the first rendition but the DO RF wall in the second. I'd move the prep sink from the island though in order to having landing space from both DO and RF, and switch the two so that the RF bulk is on the end. You could put the prep sink to the left of the cooktop just before the counter flareout. Still would prefer to swap main sink/DW and cooktop.

I like the floating hutch wall and would definitely suggest real furniture, not built-ins. The great room side is nice for art.

Unless you're in snow country, if code permits I'd do an outswing door.

As bmore stated, fridges and ovens side by side don't have the issues they used to have as far as heat/cold transfer but there can be door issues. However, there are ways to avoid collisions/dents. For instance, if you place ovens to the left of the fridge, opt for a right-hand swinging fridge door (hinge on right). That way, an open fridge door won't interfere with an open oven door and vice versa. You can also reduce collisions by placing cabinet spacers between the appliances. Also, consider handle style; the beefier they are, the more likely they will cause dents. It's something to address in the planning stage but you should know that a lot of people have fridges next to ovens without any issues.